NFL: 2010 Season Discussion Thread
01-06-2011, 02:46 PM
#2161
Well he can't pick his team and Carolina was taking him. The rookie scale probably won't be in affect until next 2012 so he loses $40 million plus. Say the rookie scale is in effect this year then he could be like Matt Leinart and go from 1 to 10 or worse Jake Lokher and project from top 3 to a mid first rounder. Sure Steve Smith is old but servicable and David Gettis is showing flashes. I mean they are top pick for a reason. But he can seriously damage his career by waiting. I don't think Indy was the ideal choice for Peyton and he came out pretty good.
01-06-2011, 02:46 PM
#2162
Team Owner
1) Cheap-ass owner -
2009 payroll 11th
http://content.usatoday.com/sports/f...aspx?year=2009
2010 payroll 17th above New England, Indy, Denver, and your Falcons
http://www.altiusdirectory.com/Sports/nfl-salaries.php
2) Probably will have a little-to no experience HC next year because of #1 - See Mike Smith, your coach and Matt Ryan
3) Best player on the team is Steve Smith, who probably won't be there because of all of these reasons. Here's their best WR but they could've gotten free agents or picks to help. Gettis showed flashes.
4) No market to speak of. Contract is nice, but what is he going to endorse? Wingtips for the bankers? $35 million can be made up easy if you take SF, LA or a NY team to a championship. That's the same BS people said with Lebron. Last I checked Peyton was the Sony pitchman out of Indy.
5) One hell of a division. Three well-run franchises, with two star QBs in the making. Oh yeah, there's that Super Bowl champion from last year. Parity. Divisions shift all the time.
6) DeAngelo is a FA and will most likely leave. Stewart and Goodson were pretty good this year when healthy and put up big games with no passing offense whatsoever. Deangelo barely played this year.
2009 payroll 11th
http://content.usatoday.com/sports/f...aspx?year=2009
2010 payroll 17th above New England, Indy, Denver, and your Falcons
http://www.altiusdirectory.com/Sports/nfl-salaries.php
2) Probably will have a little-to no experience HC next year because of #1 - See Mike Smith, your coach and Matt Ryan
3) Best player on the team is Steve Smith, who probably won't be there because of all of these reasons. Here's their best WR but they could've gotten free agents or picks to help. Gettis showed flashes.
4) No market to speak of. Contract is nice, but what is he going to endorse? Wingtips for the bankers? $35 million can be made up easy if you take SF, LA or a NY team to a championship. That's the same BS people said with Lebron. Last I checked Peyton was the Sony pitchman out of Indy.
5) One hell of a division. Three well-run franchises, with two star QBs in the making. Oh yeah, there's that Super Bowl champion from last year. Parity. Divisions shift all the time.
6) DeAngelo is a FA and will most likely leave. Stewart and Goodson were pretty good this year when healthy and put up big games with no passing offense whatsoever. Deangelo barely played this year.
01-06-2011, 02:51 PM
#2163
Banned
Well he can't pick his team and Carolina was taking him. The rookie scale probably won't be in affect until next 2012 so he loses $40 million plus. Say the rookie scale is in effect this year then he could be like Matt Leinart and go from 1 to 10 or worse Jake Lokher and project from top 3 to a mid first rounder. Sure Steve Smith is old but servicable and David Gettis is showing flashes. I mean they are top pick for a reason. But he can seriously damage his career by waiting. I don't think Indy was the ideal choice for Peyton and he came out pretty good.
Like I said, Smith isn't going to be there. And you can certainly damage your career by going the wrong place. Going in a slot other than #1 isn't the end of the world. Quite a few HOF QBs have turned out fine not going #1, and more than a few were absolute busts going at the top. It doesn't define your career. It doesn't define your career earnings.
And it's foolish to compare ANYONE to Peyton Manning. No one puts in the work he does.
01-06-2011, 02:51 PM
#2164
Bradford wouldn't have had the season he did if Jackson didn't rebound better than expected. Few of us expected SJ to put up solid numbers this season and IMO it took some of the pressure off Bradford. Can you count on Williams to help out their rookie QB?
Don't forget Clausen was billed as a pro-style QB under the Weis' offensive scheme much like Luck. He is a bust.
Don't forget Clausen was billed as a pro-style QB under the Weis' offensive scheme much like Luck. He is a bust.
Very true...I mean, a QB can't do it all by themselves. If they aren't getting any support and have no consistency and good coaching they'll fail miserably.
I think there have been plenty of QBs in the past that could have succeeded if they were placed in a scenario such as, for example, Mark Sanchez - surrounded by a good team right off the bat.
Unlike guys like Tim Couch, David Carr, etc who were given trash to work with.
01-06-2011, 02:52 PM
#2165
Suzuka Master
He picked which team he wasn't going to, that's for sure.
Like I said, Smith isn't going to be there. And you can certainly damage your career by going the wrong place. Going in a slot other than #1 isn't the end of the world. Quite a few HOF QBs have turned out fine not going #1, and more than a few were absolute busts going at the top. It doesn't define your career. It doesn't define your career earnings.
And it's foolish to compare ANYONE to Peyton Manning. No one puts in the work he does.
Like I said, Smith isn't going to be there. And you can certainly damage your career by going the wrong place. Going in a slot other than #1 isn't the end of the world. Quite a few HOF QBs have turned out fine not going #1, and more than a few were absolute busts going at the top. It doesn't define your career. It doesn't define your career earnings.
And it's foolish to compare ANYONE to Peyton Manning. No one puts in the work he does.
01-06-2011, 02:52 PM
#2166
Team Owner
Bradford wouldn't have had the season he did if Jackson didn't rebound better than expected. Few of us expected SJ to put up solid numbers this season and IMO it took some of the pressure off Bradford. Can you count on Williams to help out their rookie QB?
Don't forget Clausen was billed as a pro-style QB under the Weis' offensive scheme much like Luck. He is a bust.
Don't forget Clausen was billed as a pro-style QB under the Weis' offensive scheme much like Luck. He is a bust.
01-06-2011, 02:54 PM
#2167
Team Owner
Rick, the NFL writers speculate the range not changing. Even if it does do you take $15 million this year or whatever the lower picks gets in 2012. That could be a 50% pay cut. #1 likely get $50 million vs $15 million or less if they drop.
01-06-2011, 02:55 PM
#2168
01-06-2011, 02:56 PM
#2169
He picked which team he wasn't going to, that's for sure.
Like I said, Smith isn't going to be there. And you can certainly damage your career by going the wrong place. Going in a slot other than #1 isn't the end of the world. Quite a few HOF QBs have turned out fine not going #1, and more than a few were absolute busts going at the top. It doesn't define your career. It doesn't define your career earnings.
And it's foolish to compare ANYONE to Peyton Manning. No one puts in the work he does.
Like I said, Smith isn't going to be there. And you can certainly damage your career by going the wrong place. Going in a slot other than #1 isn't the end of the world. Quite a few HOF QBs have turned out fine not going #1, and more than a few were absolute busts going at the top. It doesn't define your career. It doesn't define your career earnings.
And it's foolish to compare ANYONE to Peyton Manning. No one puts in the work he does.
I'm sure he's done his homework on everything we're discussing and has based his decision on that, so maybe he's hoping a better team will get him #1 next year, and he doesn't really care if he's going to lose money with the new CBA because maybe that part isn't as important to him as winning
01-06-2011, 03:00 PM
#2170
Team Owner
He picked which team he wasn't going to, that's for sure.
Like I said, Smith isn't going to be there. And you can certainly damage your career by going the wrong place. Going in a slot other than #1 isn't the end of the world. Quite a few HOF QBs have turned out fine not going #1, and more than a few were absolute busts going at the top. It doesn't define your career. It doesn't define your career earnings.
And it's foolish to compare ANYONE to Peyton Manning. No one puts in the work he does.
Like I said, Smith isn't going to be there. And you can certainly damage your career by going the wrong place. Going in a slot other than #1 isn't the end of the world. Quite a few HOF QBs have turned out fine not going #1, and more than a few were absolute busts going at the top. It doesn't define your career. It doesn't define your career earnings.
And it's foolish to compare ANYONE to Peyton Manning. No one puts in the work he does.
01-06-2011, 03:00 PM
#2171
Suzuka Master
The CBA poses uncertainty but what is certain is how much $$ Bradford's contract included. That would be the blueprint for Luck's rookie contract structure.
01-06-2011, 03:02 PM
#2172
Suzuka Master
My point with Manning was that he was the one of the few to wait a year and still end up #1 and work out because he could've went to the Jets. And if you go down the list of bust QB's in the first round, that's the only big contract they get. Akili Smith, Brady Quinn, Jamarcus Russell, Vince young, matt Leinart, Jason Campbell, jp losman, Byron leftwich, Kyle Boller, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsay. How many contracts did they take advantage? What if Luck is a bust (good chance due to trends) and only gets one big contract.
Somehow I was interpreting your posts as it being irrelevant whether Luck went this year or next financially.
01-06-2011, 03:03 PM
#2173
Team Owner
Very true...I mean, a QB can't do it all by themselves. If they aren't getting any support and have no consistency and good coaching they'll fail miserably.
I think there have been plenty of QBs in the past that could have succeeded if they were placed in a scenario such as, for example, Mark Sanchez - surrounded by a good team right off the bat.
Unlike guys like Tim Couch, David Carr, etc who were given trash to work with.
I think there have been plenty of QBs in the past that could have succeeded if they were placed in a scenario such as, for example, Mark Sanchez - surrounded by a good team right off the bat.
Unlike guys like Tim Couch, David Carr, etc who were given trash to work with.
01-06-2011, 03:04 PM
#2174
No, I 'd still say that he's ahead of what's going on there in Cincy, at least Synder is spending money to get "talent" into the team. Your guys just don't seem to care.
Did Lewis get what he wanted to stay there? I heard that he wanted a new training center and more money put into scouting.
Did Lewis get what he wanted to stay there? I heard that he wanted a new training center and more money put into scouting.
I think Snyder cares about winning, but hurts the team with his undermining of the coaches and bad personnel decisions. So maybe we can move Brown to #2
From what I heard at the press conference, Brown said they would talk about a lot of those type of issues after the CBA was figured out. So he probably made empty promises and Lewis will eventually get pissed when nothing happens and be gone.
01-06-2011, 03:04 PM
#2175
Team Owner
It doesn't define his career but if you're going to a job with a good chance you'll suck at it, get the most you can. Aaron Rodgers was luck (no pun intended) that he slid down to the late teens. Late teens teams are already competitive.
01-06-2011, 03:05 PM
#2176
Banned
1) Cheap-ass owner -
2009 payroll 11th
http://content.usatoday.com/sports/f...aspx?year=2009
2010 payroll 17th above New England, Indy, Denver, and your Falcons
http://www.altiusdirectory.com/Sports/nfl-salaries.php
2009 payroll 11th
http://content.usatoday.com/sports/f...aspx?year=2009
2010 payroll 17th above New England, Indy, Denver, and your Falcons
http://www.altiusdirectory.com/Sports/nfl-salaries.php
And whose Falcons are they? Not mine, last I checked.
2) Probably will have a little-to no experience HC next year because of #1 - See Mike Smith, your coach and Matt Ryan
3) Best player on the team is Steve Smith, who probably won't be there because of all of these reasons. Here's their best WR but they could've gotten free agents or picks to help. Gettis showed flashes.
4) No market to speak of. Contract is nice, but what is he going to endorse? Wingtips for the bankers? $35 million can be made up easy if you take SF, LA or a NY team to a championship. That's the same BS people said with Lebron. Last I checked Peyton was the Sony pitchman out of Indy.
5) One hell of a division. Three well-run franchises, with two star QBs in the making. Oh yeah, there's that Super Bowl champion from last year. Parity. Divisions shift all the time.
6) DeAngelo is a FA and will most likely leave. Stewart and Goodson were pretty good this year when healthy and put up big games with no passing offense whatsoever. Deangelo barely played this year.
01-06-2011, 03:06 PM
#2177
Team Owner
How does he know he won't fall into a worse situation next year? Maybe he's betting on it being a better situation, but who knows.
I'm sure he's done his homework on everything we're discussing and has based his decision on that, so maybe he's hoping a better team will get him #1 next year, and he doesn't really care if he's going to lose money with the new CBA because maybe that part isn't as important to him as winning
I'm sure he's done his homework on everything we're discussing and has based his decision on that, so maybe he's hoping a better team will get him #1 next year, and he doesn't really care if he's going to lose money with the new CBA because maybe that part isn't as important to him as winning
01-06-2011, 03:06 PM
#2178
Suzuka Master
Leinart went later than expected, he still sucked. Like AR, he had the benefit of being behind an experienced, SB caliber QB.
01-06-2011, 03:09 PM
#2179
Banned
It's very easy to tell someone they can go back, but look at all the athletes who went early and never got it done. It's not easy, and that's for people who've made more in one year than I'll ever see.
01-06-2011, 03:11 PM
#2180
I think we're saying the same things
01-06-2011, 03:22 PM
#2182
Team Owner
Richardson is cutting expenses. He's not going to pay the money he was for Fox. PSL owners are bailing. I know someone who paid up in 93 and is done with them....That doesn't mean they cut payroll 
They still get tons of revenue. Maybe they drop a few slots but you make them sound like 30th ranked payroll. Probably didn't make sense keeping Peppers considering they were going in rebuilding anyways.
And whose Falcons are they? Not mine, last I checked......Haha I forgot you were a Steeler fan.
Mike Tomlin's my coach, thank you. And the front offices of Atlanta and Pittsburgh are miles ahead of Carolina....the point is it can be done. It's not lke they are the Redskins. They just won their division 2 seasons ago.
They could've. They didn't. Richardson isn't going to pay big contracts....Didn't Delhomme, Peppers, and Smith have big contracts before this rebuilding year?
How many years did it take, with a franchise that has a following of 50+ years? With a market that has virtually nothing else to speak of? There's a lot of other sports to spend money and eyes on in North Carolina especially. I know, I lived there...Brady gets $4mm per year. Luck won't sniff that for a few years even if he somehow magically got into a big market. He gets more cash from the rookie contract.
Not really. AFC East has been tough for how many years now? NFC East? You have young talented QBs with great front offices and you're looking at the next ten years of great rivalry in that division. Carolina is not going to be a quick fix.....Again, they just won that division two years ago
They still get tons of revenue. Maybe they drop a few slots but you make them sound like 30th ranked payroll. Probably didn't make sense keeping Peppers considering they were going in rebuilding anyways.And whose Falcons are they? Not mine, last I checked......Haha I forgot you were a Steeler fan.
Mike Tomlin's my coach, thank you. And the front offices of Atlanta and Pittsburgh are miles ahead of Carolina....the point is it can be done. It's not lke they are the Redskins. They just won their division 2 seasons ago.
They could've. They didn't. Richardson isn't going to pay big contracts....Didn't Delhomme, Peppers, and Smith have big contracts before this rebuilding year?
How many years did it take, with a franchise that has a following of 50+ years? With a market that has virtually nothing else to speak of? There's a lot of other sports to spend money and eyes on in North Carolina especially. I know, I lived there...Brady gets $4mm per year. Luck won't sniff that for a few years even if he somehow magically got into a big market. He gets more cash from the rookie contract.
Not really. AFC East has been tough for how many years now? NFC East? You have young talented QBs with great front offices and you're looking at the next ten years of great rivalry in that division. Carolina is not going to be a quick fix.....Again, they just won that division two years ago
01-06-2011, 03:26 PM
#2183
Team Owner
At the end of the day, even if he never throws another pass, he'll still have his degree from Stanford.
It's very easy to tell someone they can go back, but look at all the athletes who went early and never got it done. It's not easy, and that's for people who've made more in one year than I'll ever see.
It's very easy to tell someone they can go back, but look at all the athletes who went early and never got it done. It's not easy, and that's for people who've made more in one year than I'll ever see.
He can still get his degree after he retires. If he's not playing why wouldn't he go. 90% of degreed jobs doesn't get you the millions he can get. We get degrees because we don't have God given talent like that. Yo Rick are you a millionaire as a doctor making $15 million over 5 years let alone $50? 
01-06-2011, 03:31 PM
#2184
Banned
Richardson is cutting expenses. He's not going to pay the money he was for Fox. PSL owners are bailing. I know someone who paid up in 93 and is done with them....That doesn't mean they cut payroll They still get tons of revenue. Maybe they drop a few slots but you make them sound like 30th ranked payroll. Probably didn't make sense keeping Peppers considering they were going in rebuilding anyways.
They still get tons of revenue. Maybe they drop a few slots but you make them sound like 30th ranked payroll. Probably didn't make sense keeping Peppers considering they were going in rebuilding anyways.
Mike Tomlin's my coach, thank you. And the front offices of Atlanta and Pittsburgh are miles ahead of Carolina....the point is it can be done. It's not lke they are the Redskins. They just won their division 2 seasons ago.
Carolina has a much tougher road to hoe than most of the down teams right now.
They could've. They didn't. Richardson isn't going to pay big contracts....Didn't Delhomme, Peppers, and Smith have big contracts before this rebuilding year?
How many years did it take, with a franchise that has a following of 50+ years? With a market that has virtually nothing else to speak of? There's a lot of other sports to spend money and eyes on in North Carolina especially. I know, I lived there...Brady gets $4mm per year. Luck won't sniff that for a few years even if he somehow magically got into a big market. He gets more cash from the rookie contract.
Not really. AFC East has been tough for how many years now? NFC East? You have young talented QBs with great front offices and you're looking at the next ten years of great rivalry in that division. Carolina is not going to be a quick fix.....Again, they just won that division two years ago
01-06-2011, 03:50 PM
#2186
Team Owner
We've made our points. I think he could see worse than Carolina. They are not the gutter. Too many what ifs for such a huge risk. Fortunately for him he comes from a family where money is taken care of. He gets to be a kid a little longer compared to some players from bad places that have to be a man way too soon.
Question now is who's #1 now?
And is it true San Fran pulled out for maybe Billick?
Question now is who's #1 now?
And is it true San Fran pulled out for maybe Billick?
01-06-2011, 03:57 PM
#2187
Banned
We've made our points. I think he could see worse than Carolina. They are not the gutter. Too many what ifs for such a huge risk. Fortunately for him he comes from a family where money is taken care of. He gets to be a kid a little longer compared to some players from bad places that have to be a man way too soon.
Question now is who's #1 now?
And is it true San Fran pulled out for maybe Billick?
Question now is who's #1 now?
And is it true San Fran pulled out for maybe Billick?
It is an insane amount of money to leave on the table. But by doing that he gets a bit more respect from me. Because that's what he was aiming for, I have no doubt.
If Carolina keeps the pick, it might be Green. I doubt it would be Bowers.
01-06-2011, 04:08 PM
#2188
Suzuka Master
I like when discussions/arguments end civilly. I don't agree with your POV, but I respect it.
It is an insane amount of money to leave on the table. But by doing that he gets a bit more respect from me. Because that's what he was aiming for, I have no doubt.
If Carolina keeps the pick, it might be Green. I doubt it would be Bowers.
It is an insane amount of money to leave on the table. But by doing that he gets a bit more respect from me. Because that's what he was aiming for, I have no doubt.
If Carolina keeps the pick, it might be Green. I doubt it would be Bowers.
01-06-2011, 04:26 PM
#2190
Suzuka Master
01-06-2011, 04:32 PM
#2191
We've been fucked since Sam Wyche and Mike Brown had a falling out in the early 90's and they hired Dave Shula
I was actually looking through some of those drafts in the 90's...amazing how many of them were straight up busts in every round. No scouting FTL
01-06-2011, 04:35 PM
#2192
And speaking of busts, the girl that took me to the CIN/SD game a few weeks ago found an original Ki-Jana Carter jersey from 1995 in her Dad's closet and gave it to me (he's a huge Penn State fan).
People were giving me the weirdest looks that day when they saw a 32 jersey that didn't say Benson on it
People were giving me the weirdest looks that day when they saw a 32 jersey that didn't say Benson on it
01-06-2011, 05:22 PM
#2193
Suzuka Master
And speaking of busts, the girl that took me to the CIN/SD game a few weeks ago found an original Ki-Jana Carter jersey from 1995 in her Dad's closet and gave it to me (he's a huge Penn State fan).
People were giving me the weirdest looks that day when they saw a 32 jersey that didn't say Benson on it
People were giving me the weirdest looks that day when they saw a 32 jersey that didn't say Benson on it
Tearing his ACL on the 3rd carry of his rookie season did not bode well me thinks. He never really recovered from that preseason injury IMO.
01-06-2011, 05:34 PM
#2194
Banned
My opinion verbatim. Doom has a point though, I thought the Falcons were left for dead when that traitor Petrino bailed during the season. I recollect how disheartened the Atlanta players were. Blank showed his dedication to the Falcons and the team of Smith and Ryan proved to be the pro equivalent of Harbaugh and Luck.
01-06-2011, 07:10 PM
#2195
Suzuka Master
01-07-2011, 07:46 AM
#2198
Team Owner
Fucking shit. Sparano is baaaaack. :boo: Why the hell did we not just sign Cowher and let him have control. Ireland sucks as GM and Cowher is an upgrade from Sparano. Correct me if I'm wrong Cochese, Jonesi, didn't Tomlin win his first Super Bowl with Cowher final say players? I'm not taking away from Tomlin btw, just saying that Cowher helped assemble the roots of that team. Well at least we didn't pull a Nick Saban and pull a guy that didn't want to come here for huge dollars. Plus we still had to Rooney Rule a minority coach.
01-07-2011, 09:59 AM
#2200
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Naw...too easy.
