majin ssj eric

I dunno, I'd take a GT-R in an instant if somebody offered me one. I personally think it is a brilliant machine....

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

No argument there.

I guess what I'm just getting at is that for $35-45K, a used NSX is a great sports car, looks great, has aged well and from what everyone that I've heard from that owns or has owned one, they drive awesome. Double that price quote, and you get the latest and greatest GT-R and for that much money, you better get something that outperforms the crap out of an older NSX.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

And to add though, my passion and loyalty is still with Acura and some other brands so even if I had the opportunity to own the fastest GT-R, if I could have the exact model NSX I wanted, I wouldn't have an issue buying it over the GT-R. Going fast isn't what I care about the most. Too each their own.

Costco

I'm all (well okay, mostly) about function over form. But when it comes to exterior design, IMO aesthetics should come first. We all know that just because a car has that wedge-shape design doesn't mean it's fast, but it sends a message if it actually is.

you could give me the most amazing futuristic tech device ever, one that magically transforms into a computer at will, play HD movies, can make hologram phone calls in which you see the person you're talking to in front of you, etc. and I'll pay for it. But if you make it look like a used tampon.... you couldn't pay me to use it.

MTEAZY

aesthetics brah.

NwTSXmt

Snicker yes and all they would see is tail lights...M5 MB are you kidding me..thats worth a snicker...

NwTSXmt

I willing to bet this NSX never makes it to production....

NwTSXmt

I'll take that fat ugly GTR...if only they would sell me one below MSRP....my last search the Fkcn dealer wanted $96500.00

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

It's a balancing act that I think the GTR didn't live up to. I certainly don't want a car that has all the performance but doesn't look that great or vice versa just as you mentioned . And for me the NSX, S2000, WRX 5-door, Challenger, latest Mustang GT, 370Z Nismo. I think these cars have done well when it comes to giving both at an affordable price within their segments. Not to say that other cars in their segments don't do this, these are just my personal choices.

ttribe

This.

MuGen7Modulo

Called Acura customer service this morning and ask them if they bring the same setup to Chicago.
They called me later in the aftenoon with this info: all Detroit floor models are coming to Chicago auto show except NSX.

Moog-Type-S

I'm not too sure about that.
Is Honda willing to risk it all by not producing the NSX...after all this time?!?!

With so many teases, failed plans, changes of plans, etc by Honda....are they willing to do it again and get labeled as vaporware kings?!?!?

I don't think so. Honda has fallen so far from the top that they HAVE to build this car to save their reputation.

The question is: In three years will this car be behind the curve when other makes leap frog them?

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

yea, i researched it and found on the 2012 Chicago auto show page, but while at the show my coverage was spotty and i couldnt get that info out and when i finally did have coverage i forgot to post back. sorry bout that. wish you could have seen it.

Legend2TL

Wow, the GT-R must of hit every ugly branch falling out of the tree

dom

And if the economy tanks again? or tanks even worse than before? Won't believe it until I see it in dealers.

Moog-Type-S

If the economy tanks then Honda/Acura will make yet another stupid move?

Lexus came out with the LFA despite the economy.

Honda should take a page from the Toyota book.

You build a good enough Halo car, and there are ALWAYS people with money that will buy it....despite the economy.

It's a simple economic lesson.

dom

I'd say its a safe bet than an NSX will be released in 3 years. I think the cancellations had more to do with Ito simply not liking the the Front engined car than it did the economy. But again, 3 years is waaaay to far away to be sure of anything.

Maybe they'll just reskin the originally NSX and call it all new. But they've never done that with a car before so its unlikely.

ttribe

Did you forget the red text here?

Moog-Type-S

touché

CLtotheTL32

iTrader: (3)

I think there should have been two models available, one with the hybrid system and one without. The original NSX was a purist's car and I feel like this new one isn't.

Also, if the NSX is priced comparable to the R8, I think people will go for the R8 because the NSX binds the person to having a hybrid and an automatic transmission. Personally I would take a 6-speed V8 sports car over an automatic V6 hybrid. Just my two cents of course. People buy cars for different reasons.

dom

Sometimes things are so obvious that there is simply no need for the red text.

ttribe

Indeed, you are correct sir.

KillerG

You know, at this point Honda should just borrow the book from Toyota and make a photocopy of it

Kudos to Toyota for making a lot of bold moves lately and producing some solid performance vehicles

Legend2TL

Not really a simple economic lesson, McLaren only built 106 F1's for the lack of buyers as the original target goal was IIRC ~250. So despite being the best supercar ever built at the time, it was a sorta disappointment from the business side.

The McLaren business/operations exec sweated through making sure they broke even or turned a slight profit. Dennis and Murray were also surprised at the lack of buyers.

Although not the best supercar the Jaguar XJ220 had a similar fate, 350 placed deposits and only 281 were built (according to Wiki). A former colleagues brother in law (who was a neurosurgeon) bought one really cheap in the late 90's paid only a small fraction of the new cost, but it was really hard to get any patrts for it.

I thought there are rumors that the LF-A sales are not what Toyota expected also.

So in my , Honda should not follow Toyota's lead and stick with their own vision and use the Honda folks who wrote the business plan for the S2000 since it was highly successful and generated a small profit

Colin

Apparently, it's really easy to advocate risky ventures for a company when it's not your company. I think what we'll see will be something that can trickle down into other cars. Much like the current SH-AWD debuted on the RL, and VTEC on the NSX (in NA). This new eSH-AWD would be great to see in the next RL, TL, MDX, and hopefully some kind of TSX priced sports coupe, but you have to start somewhere.

VTEC Racer

It's no rumor: http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...de-a-sales-dud

The car has failed to meet its purpose for Lexus. Units originally allocated for overseas markets have been now allocated to the U.S. because of a large lack of demand. Unfortunately, the increased allocation for the U.S. hasn't done anything to increase sales and it still struggles. For the price Toyota is asking, nobody wants it.

Moog-Type-S

The NSX name will sell.....both in Japan, and stateside, there is a bit of heritage there.....if the product is a class leading product it will sell. Period.

Moog-Type-S

Update: Lexus wrote us to point out that LFA production, like most other industries in Japan, was disrupted for some time due to the earthquake and tsunami that ravaged the country. It's a fair point and does explain some of the shortfall in output and sales, though perhaps not all. Time will tell about the remainder.]

Legend2TL

It's not a question of whether it will sell but will it sell enough in volume. Heck, even a few people bought Vectors before it went bankrupt. I agree there is heritage, but that only goes so far sometimes. Apparently Ferrari does some interesting demands (beside deposit you need to "prove" you're a Ferrari connoisseur) for buyers of their more exclusive models. I think part of this is to guarentee a certain build allocation for SCM and vendors/suppliers.

Costco

I don't understand the hate over eSH-AWD. Even supposed car guys on Facebook see the word "hybrid" and scream blasphemy.

With the way the hybrid system is speculated to be implemented, a front-midship setup with electric motors at the rear is promising. Computer-controlled instantaneous torque to the rear wheels, with more going to the outside wheel.... no need for a driveshaft, differential, axles and thus none of their accompanying parasitic losses. The next NSX will be efficient, powerful (hopefully) and have amazing handling, I predict.

....and mostly likely will not come in stick. Exclusively will be a dual-clutch transmission, or whatever else Honda has in the pipeline we don't know about yet. I don't see why Honda would bother using all this complex technology and still try and implement a traditional manual transmission, when a computer-controlled gearbox would allow them to control the car's systems more precisely or easily (my guess).

I'm right there with you though, I can see all the benefits of a DCT but still prefer the three pedals.

Moog-Type-S

This is a HALO car, not a volume TSX.

Nobody builds a HALO car to sell in volume. You build of course to sell it, but the rest is about what the car does for the brand image.

Hence something that Acura DESPERATELY needs.

VTEC Racer

That doesn't explain why only 22 of 90 units were delivered at the time this article was delivered. If the car is built, then it should be delivered. Alas, you can't deliver a car that has no owner.

Yet another article: http://jalopnik.com/5805471/is-the-l...s-jaguar-xj220

Moog-Type-S

Why car makers build HALO cars.....the LFA for example.

Great article below:
http://junuskhan.wordpress.com/2011/06/01/lfa/

...and this is why the LFA succeeded and why the NSX should succeed as well so long as it is world class.

...and yes, Honda has shown in the past it can be world class, and they should do it again with the new NSX.

Build the HALO car, prop-up/repair the brand image for Acura.

VTEC Racer

How can the LFA prop the Lexus brand when nobody knows it exists? When people don't see the car/aren't buying it, it's failed to meet its purpose.

That was a nice blog article though.

ttribe

Yep...and here you are talking about it...but nobody knows it exists.

VTEC Racer

Yes, because I meant that literally.

Edward'TLS

If the LF-A can be purchased outright from Lexus without also having forced to sign the restrictive Lexus "must-keep-for-24-months" agreement, just like purchasing other brands' supercars, Lexus would have sold a lot more of the LF-A.

Legend2TL

Of course but most (?) break even or turn a small profit.

The NSX is a excellent case study because Honda was not even sure it had doing anything for the brand (Honda/Acura) in the 90's. Honda had commissioned a few marketing studies around the world in the 90's to determine the effects of it's cars, advertising, and F1 program.

One of the outcomes of those studies was their F1 campaign (engines to Williams, Lotus, and McLaren) brought alot of attention to the brand worldwide. That was not the case for the NSX, it was not determined to have brought people into Honda (world-wide) or Acura dealers for car sales.

IDNK, but I would bet a paycheck or two that every limited production (F40, F50, Enzo,...) Ferrari has turned a profit.

There are cases where a special edition model cost more than the MSRP, the classic is from Bob "Captian Crunch" McCurry. When he was at Chrysler he was involved in the Plymouth Roadrunner Super Bird. Although the special edition didn't sell well, but had a big impact in NASCAR and brought alot of sales to regular Roadrunners.

Brilliant sales/marketing exec, his great claim thought was working at Toyota/Lexus where he was very instrumental in "americanizing" the Camry (3G) and other Toyota/Lexus vehicles which brought alot of success to them.

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...14/028632.html

Legend2TL

Fixed for clarity

To me the LFA is a failure as a supercar, it didn't bring much attention to Toyota and has not sold well. Toyota is not Ferrari so this should have been a slightly more mainstream car. And as a technology exploration project, DCT should have been on the plan all along (same goes for the GT-R).

A great example of a high performance car bringing attention to the brand is the Viper. I'm not a fan of it's brutish approach but it's been a incredible success to Dodge and Chrysler. The Ford GT is another example that not as successful as the Viper.

IMO the Toyota TRD off-road racing program was a far more successful marketing campaign than the LFA. IDNK but I'm guessing that program is fairly low cost compared to other advertising and brought alot of interest to Toyota big trucks.

ttribe

Ohhh, so now hyperbole is okay for YOU to use...gotcha.