Monthly Car Sales news
10-04-2010, 06:29 PM
#1681
Senior Moderator
Right, you've been nothing but postive. 
Exactly how do you get that 4,000 again? In 2009 they sold 120K Sonata's which is 10K per month on average. If we use 30% they were averaging 7,000 retail sales on the old model. Now that they'll likely average 20k once production picks up (not just a Honda problem) they'll sell 14K retail. (20K -30%) which according to my math is 7,000 more retail sales.
Or are you suggesting the old model had 0 fleet sales?
And not that I don't believe it, but I'd love to see proof of that 'more than 30%' figure you like to so freely toss around.
I realize that there is far more to what makes a successful car than styling. The Accord is a good drive. No where have I ever said the Accord isn't a very good car. Ugly but a very good mid size car. But another thing that plays a big part in car buying is cache and reputation. Two things car's like the Camry and Accord have plenty of and something that Hyundai is slowly gaining.
Talking about how the "market" has responded to the Sonata really means nothing. With a fleet rate of more than 30%, that means only 4,000 more buyers are buying the new Sonata compared to the 10k figure you threw out for the last one. Compare the current new Sonata to the last generation Sonata and tell me how impressive that 4,000 gain is. We've seen the Accord fluctuate more than that in sales within the same generation, let alone a complete FMC. I'm not taking credit AWAY from Hyundai. However I'm not giving them credit for what you see as significant.
Or are you suggesting the old model had 0 fleet sales?
And not that I don't believe it, but I'd love to see proof of that 'more than 30%' figure you like to so freely toss around.
Moving backwards on styling clearly means nothing to buyers because Honda sales have been going nowhere but up. If people cared about styling like some of the members of this board do, then the Sonata should be the #1 selling car in it's class because it's got an aggressive and well accepted appearance on this forum. As you can see though, buyers look at a lot more than just what's on the outside. If it was all about looks, then according to this forum, the TL should also be the worst selling car in it's class.
10-04-2010, 06:34 PM
#1682
Senior Moderator
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/det...e-fleet-sales/
Says 16% here.
Here too
http://www.leftlanenews.com/detroit-...eet-sales.html
So can we please have some proof of this more than 30%?
Says 16% here.
Here too
http://www.leftlanenews.com/detroit-...eet-sales.html
So can we please have some proof of this more than 30%?
10-04-2010, 06:37 PM
#1683
Senior Moderator
The fleet “crutch” is both a blessing and a curse: Ford, General Motors and Chrysler have seen continually strong sales in 2010, but new data suggests that both Michigan automakers have increased their overall volume thanks to less profitable fleet sales.
Fleet sales represent guaranteed sales for the automakers, but they are generally composed of cut-rate sales prices.
Automotive News says that it has discovered that this year GM has seen fleet sales increase 53% (to 400,000 units) and Chrysler’s fleet numbers are up a massive 163% (to 242,000 units) and even Ford’s numbers are up 35% (to 287,000). Essentially, that means that both automakers have seen fleet sales increase to about the same level as they were before last year’s industry crisis.
Ford says that it is focusing its fleet sales on more profitable government and commercial buyers. More than 66% of all GM and Chrysler fleet sales, meanwhile, were to bottom-feeding, low profit rental car outlets.
That increased volume might not sound like a bad thing until the numbers are compared to those at foreign automakers. Chrysler leads major industry players with 39% of its overall sales going to fleets. Ford has dropped its fleet dependency, but it’s still high at 35% . GM is a little lower at 31%. By comparison, Hyundai leads foreign automakers at just 16%. Nissan (15%), Toyota (9%) and Honda (2%) have never been major fleet sellers.
Automakers say that their regular fleet customers – rental agencies, contractors and corporate fleet operators – are finally buying more vehicles after putting off purchases last year.
Fleet sales are completed at discounted volume prices and they typically diminish resale values.
10-04-2010, 06:38 PM
#1684
Honda Fanboy
Right, you've been nothing but postive.
Exactly how do you get that 4,000 again? In 2009 they sold 120K Sonata's which is 10K per month on average. If we use 30% they were averaging 7,000 retail sales on the old model. Now that they'll likely average 20k once production picks up (not just a Honda problem) they'll sell 14K retail. (20K -30%) which according to my math is 7,000 more retail sales.
Or are you suggesting the old model had 0 fleet sales?
And not that I don't believe it, but I'd love to see proof of that 'more than 30%' figure you like to so freely toss around.
I realize that there is far more to what makes a successful car than styling. The Accord is a good drive. No where have I ever said the Accord isn't a very good car. Ugly but a very good mid size car. But another thing that plays a big part in car buying is cache and reputation. Two things car's like the Camry and Accord have plenty of and something that Hyundai is slowly gaining.
Exactly how do you get that 4,000 again? In 2009 they sold 120K Sonata's which is 10K per month on average. If we use 30% they were averaging 7,000 retail sales on the old model. Now that they'll likely average 20k once production picks up (not just a Honda problem) they'll sell 14K retail. (20K -30%) which according to my math is 7,000 more retail sales.
Or are you suggesting the old model had 0 fleet sales?
And not that I don't believe it, but I'd love to see proof of that 'more than 30%' figure you like to so freely toss around.
I realize that there is far more to what makes a successful car than styling. The Accord is a good drive. No where have I ever said the Accord isn't a very good car. Ugly but a very good mid size car. But another thing that plays a big part in car buying is cache and reputation. Two things car's like the Camry and Accord have plenty of and something that Hyundai is slowly gaining.
Like I said, I couldn't really find anything for 2010 (I'm sure it's there if you look) so I used what was available from 2009: http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/13/h...boost-numbers/
10-04-2010, 06:51 PM
#1685
Senior Moderator
So let me get this straight, you're basing your 'more than 30%' fleet argument on 1st quarter data from 2009 where Hyundai was still selling the clearly inferior, dated old Sonata? Do I have that right?
Unlike you I did look and my links clearly show 16% for 2010 data.
Feel free to throw around any numbers you like to support your argument, yet not have the facts to back them up. We like to call that SSFTSX around here.
And I'd love to see how many new gen Sonata's were actually sold to Fleets. Something tells me it wasn't anywhere close to 16%.
Unlike you I did look and my links clearly show 16% for 2010 data.
Feel free to throw around any numbers you like to support your argument, yet not have the facts to back them up. We like to call that SSFTSX around here.
And I'd love to see how many new gen Sonata's were actually sold to Fleets. Something tells me it wasn't anywhere close to 16%.
10-04-2010, 06:59 PM
#1686
Honda Fanboy
So let me get this straight, you're basing your 'more than 30%' fleet argument on 1st quarter data from 2009 where Hyundai was still selling the clearly inferior, dated old Sonata? Do I have that right?
Unlike you I did look and my links clearly show 16% for 2010 data.
Feel free to throw around any numbers you like to support your argument, yet not have the facts to back them up. We like to call that SSFTSX around here.
And I'd love to see how many new gen Sonata's were actually sold to Fleets. Something tells me it wasn't anywhere close to 16%.
Unlike you I did look and my links clearly show 16% for 2010 data.
Feel free to throw around any numbers you like to support your argument, yet not have the facts to back them up. We like to call that SSFTSX around here.
And I'd love to see how many new gen Sonata's were actually sold to Fleets. Something tells me it wasn't anywhere close to 16%.
Does it change anything? Not really. Especially since Hyundai continues to say they want to increase that number.
10-04-2010, 07:02 PM
#1687
Race Director
To be fair that 16% is for the Hyundai brand as a whole, not for a single model. I'd venture to guess that models like the Sonata, Elantra or Accent (rental queens in any gen) have a higher proportion than a Santa Fe, Veracruz or a Genesis. Maybe not 30% but probably higher than 16%.
10-04-2010, 07:19 PM
#1688
What would happen to Sonata numbers if Hyundai didn't sell so many to rental car companies (a practice they are planning to increase: http://www.automotive-fleet.com/Arti...t-Share.aspx)?
I don't have an exact breakdown of 2010 numbers but for 2009, Hyundai fleet sales were more than 30% of total sales (I found as high as 34% in some months). However, when more than 1/3 of sales are to fleets, it makes it irrelevant. Not to mention that Hyundai has to put a lot more cash on the hood of the Sonata than Honda does on the Accord.
As already stated, the fleet sales % for Hyundai in 2010 is 16%.
Btw, the amount of $$ Hyundai has put "on the hood" for the year is significantly less than that for Toyota (as well as Nissan) and very close to that of Honda.
To be fair that 16% is for the Hyundai brand as a whole, not for a single model. I'd venture to guess that models like the Sonata, Elantra or Accent (rental queens in any gen) have a higher proportion than a Santa Fe, Veracruz or a Genesis. Maybe not 30% but probably higher than 16%.
Hyundai also miscalculated in the % of Sonata buyers opting for the Limited or SE trim over the lower GLS trim - until Hyundai shifted production over to the LTD and SE trims, they were hard to find on the lots.
Last edited by YEH; 10-04-2010 at 07:22 PM.
10-04-2010, 07:26 PM
#1689
Honda Fanboy
Uhh, the fleet sales % of the '11 Sonata is pretty low.
It would help not to base one's (erroneous) opinion on seriously outdated info.
As already stated, the fleet sales % for Hyundai in 2010 is 16%.
Btw, the amount of $$ Hyundai has put "on the hood" for the year is significantly less than that for Toyota (as well as Nissan) and very close to that of Honda.
Actually, the fleet rate for the '11 Sonata is in the single digits (8-9%); until the past couple of months, the Malibu, Fusion and Altima all outsold the Sonata in total sales - but the Sonata outsold them w/ regard to retail sales.
Hyundai also miscalculated in the % of Sonata buyers opting for the Limited or SE trim over the lower GLS trim - until Hyundai shifted production over to the LTD and SE trims, they were hard to find on the lots.
It would help not to base one's (erroneous) opinion on seriously outdated info.
As already stated, the fleet sales % for Hyundai in 2010 is 16%.
Btw, the amount of $$ Hyundai has put "on the hood" for the year is significantly less than that for Toyota (as well as Nissan) and very close to that of Honda.
Actually, the fleet rate for the '11 Sonata is in the single digits (8-9%); until the past couple of months, the Malibu, Fusion and Altima all outsold the Sonata in total sales - but the Sonata outsold them w/ regard to retail sales.
Hyundai also miscalculated in the % of Sonata buyers opting for the Limited or SE trim over the lower GLS trim - until Hyundai shifted production over to the LTD and SE trims, they were hard to find on the lots.
10-04-2010, 07:41 PM
#1690
Senior Moderator
Yes I told you several times already my data was based on 2009 numbers and now all of a sudden you put some effort in and find 2010 numbers. Thanks. Like I have always said, I am always willing to provide resources for my claims. However, I won't sit here and cite every single number I mention. You asked for my source, I gave it.
Does it change anything? Not really. Especially since Hyundai continues to say they want to increase that number.
Does it change anything? Not really. Especially since Hyundai continues to say they want to increase that number.
Maybe Hyundai has a good reason to increase fleet sales. You immediatley perceive it as a negative. I don't ever recall GM coming out and saying fleet sales are good so maybe Hyundai is looking at this from another perspective.
Last edited by dom; 10-04-2010 at 07:52 PM.
10-04-2010, 07:46 PM
#1692
Senior Moderator
To be fair that 16% is for the Hyundai brand as a whole, not for a single model. I'd venture to guess that models like the Sonata, Elantra or Accent (rental queens in any gen) have a higher proportion than a Santa Fe, Veracruz or a Genesis. Maybe not 30% but probably higher than 16%.
10-04-2010, 07:54 PM
#1693
Honda Fanboy
People are buying the Sonata but I wouldn't go as far as to say limited in supply. Hyundai already has cash back incentives and $199/mo lease deals on the car. For comparison, the lease deal Toyota has on the Corolla right now is for $219/mo. You don't offer incentives on a car that is supposedly a hot model.
10-04-2010, 08:00 PM
#1694
Honda Fanboy
By several times, you mean once. You did a great job of continuing to presume it was 30%. I made the mistake of believing your numbers were right.
Maybe Hyundai has a good reason to increase fleet sales. You immediatley perceive it as a negative. I don't ever recall GM coming out and saying fleet sales are good so maybe Hyundai is looking at this from another perspective.
Maybe Hyundai has a good reason to increase fleet sales. You immediatley perceive it as a negative. I don't ever recall GM coming out and saying fleet sales are good so maybe Hyundai is looking at this from another perspective.
10-04-2010, 08:02 PM
#1695
Senior Moderator
Maybe limited is not the correct term. But several availability issues have come up in the automotive press over the last few months. Like YEH mentioned. Point being, its closer to Accord sales than any of us thought possible a short time ago.
10-04-2010, 08:07 PM
#1696
Senior Moderator
http://www.automotive-fleet.com/Arti...ket-Share.aspx
AF: Why did Hyundai decide to enter the commercial fleet market?
PIPENHAGEN: Hyundai Motor America views commercial fleet as a viable avenue to further expand our reach into the U.S. market. Corporations are very image-conscious and if they choose Hyundai vehicles to be part of their company fleet, we are provided further confirmation that we are doing all the right things pertaining to product acceptability.
AF: How does the Hyundai fleet ordering system work?
PIPENHAGEN: Right now, commercial fleet is a relatively new endeavor for Hyundai so current functionality is mostly manual. That being said, we have an extremely seasoned operations staff so they can support whatever comes our way. Hyundai has a 20-year track record serving the rental fleet market. There are numerous efficiencies built into our planning.
AF: What will be the average order-to-delivery time for commercial fleet orders?
PIPENHAGEN: The plant in Alabama will afford standard 4-8 week delivery times, while vehicles sourced from Korea usually take about three months. Fortunately, much of what is piquing traditional fleets' interest is resident at the various ports and can be available rather quickly.
AF: Has Hyundai created a fleet courtesy delivery program?
PIPENHAGEN: One is in the throes of being developed now.
AF: What steps has Hyundai taken to make its dealers more fleet-minded?
PIPENHAGEN: Many are multi-franchise operators and already have a fleet acumen; therefore, not a lot of challenges should arise with that type of infrastructure.
AF: Will the Hyundai retail warranty program apply to fleet buyers? Is the warranty program transferrable to buyers of out-of-service Hyundai fleet products?
PIPENHAGEN: Yes, the retail warranty is available to all commercial fleet customers, but it is not transferable.
AF: What are the projected 36-month residual values for Hyundai models targeted for commercial fleet sales?
PIPENHAGEN: Depreciation should remain very low with the current lineup of model series, and the future looks even more encouraging as new products evolve. Hyundai is a solid player when a fleet manager is zeroed-in on total lifecycle cost.
AF: Does Hyundai have plans to increase the number of models built in the U.S. at its Georgia and Alabama assembly plants?
PIPENHAGEN: We currently produce Elantra, Sonata, and Santa Fe in the U.S. These vehicles represent 70 percent of our total sales volume. At this time, we have no plans to further expand U.S. production.
AF: Can you provide us a glimpse of future Hyundai models that will be sold in the U.S.?
PIPENHAGEN: I spent time at the world headquarters in Seoul in June and was able to tour the design center, manufacturing plant, and steel plant. The plants were impressive; there was high energy, and they had a high-tech focus.
I can tell you the 2011 Elantra will be arriving approximately in December and it will be a show-stopper. Sonata will have a very ambitiously and competitively priced hybrid in November, along with a 258 horsepower four-cylinder turbo due about the same time. Our luxury vehicle, the Equus, which has been in the Korean marketplace for quite some time, will debut in October in the U.S. It will be available in a four- and five-passenger version and it will be priced very competitively.
These are exciting times at HMA and the future looks remarkably promising.
PIPENHAGEN: Hyundai Motor America views commercial fleet as a viable avenue to further expand our reach into the U.S. market. Corporations are very image-conscious and if they choose Hyundai vehicles to be part of their company fleet, we are provided further confirmation that we are doing all the right things pertaining to product acceptability.
AF: How does the Hyundai fleet ordering system work?
PIPENHAGEN: Right now, commercial fleet is a relatively new endeavor for Hyundai so current functionality is mostly manual. That being said, we have an extremely seasoned operations staff so they can support whatever comes our way. Hyundai has a 20-year track record serving the rental fleet market. There are numerous efficiencies built into our planning.
AF: What will be the average order-to-delivery time for commercial fleet orders?
PIPENHAGEN: The plant in Alabama will afford standard 4-8 week delivery times, while vehicles sourced from Korea usually take about three months. Fortunately, much of what is piquing traditional fleets' interest is resident at the various ports and can be available rather quickly.
AF: Has Hyundai created a fleet courtesy delivery program?
PIPENHAGEN: One is in the throes of being developed now.
AF: What steps has Hyundai taken to make its dealers more fleet-minded?
PIPENHAGEN: Many are multi-franchise operators and already have a fleet acumen; therefore, not a lot of challenges should arise with that type of infrastructure.
AF: Will the Hyundai retail warranty program apply to fleet buyers? Is the warranty program transferrable to buyers of out-of-service Hyundai fleet products?
PIPENHAGEN: Yes, the retail warranty is available to all commercial fleet customers, but it is not transferable.
AF: What are the projected 36-month residual values for Hyundai models targeted for commercial fleet sales?
PIPENHAGEN: Depreciation should remain very low with the current lineup of model series, and the future looks even more encouraging as new products evolve. Hyundai is a solid player when a fleet manager is zeroed-in on total lifecycle cost.
AF: Does Hyundai have plans to increase the number of models built in the U.S. at its Georgia and Alabama assembly plants?
PIPENHAGEN: We currently produce Elantra, Sonata, and Santa Fe in the U.S. These vehicles represent 70 percent of our total sales volume. At this time, we have no plans to further expand U.S. production.
AF: Can you provide us a glimpse of future Hyundai models that will be sold in the U.S.?
PIPENHAGEN: I spent time at the world headquarters in Seoul in June and was able to tour the design center, manufacturing plant, and steel plant. The plants were impressive; there was high energy, and they had a high-tech focus.
I can tell you the 2011 Elantra will be arriving approximately in December and it will be a show-stopper. Sonata will have a very ambitiously and competitively priced hybrid in November, along with a 258 horsepower four-cylinder turbo due about the same time. Our luxury vehicle, the Equus, which has been in the Korean marketplace for quite some time, will debut in October in the U.S. It will be available in a four- and five-passenger version and it will be priced very competitively.
These are exciting times at HMA and the future looks remarkably promising.
Maybe another link that I missed?
10-04-2010, 08:13 PM
#1697
Honda Fanboy
Did you post another link outside of the one on the previous page?
http://www.automotive-fleet.com/Arti...ket-Share.aspx
I must have missed the part in that link where Hyundai says its a negative?
Maybe another link that I missed?
http://www.automotive-fleet.com/Arti...ket-Share.aspx
I must have missed the part in that link where Hyundai says its a negative?
Maybe another link that I missed?
In the same link I provided earlier:
There is nothing inherently wrong with fleet sales, but many in the industry see them as a historically-abused method to inflate numbers, an inaccurate reflection of actual showroom traffic, and a potential liability for residual values. "We accept the criticism that our fleet is up," Hyundai Motor America's sales boss Dave Zuchowski said when he addressed the issue. "But our retail share also is up and outperformed the industry."
10-04-2010, 08:25 PM
#1698
Senior Moderator
In the same link I provided earlier:
"But our retail share also is up and outperformed the industry."
10-04-2010, 08:27 PM
#1699
Honda Fanboy
10-04-2010, 08:45 PM
#1701
Honda Fanboy
10-04-2010, 09:00 PM
#1704
Honda Fanboy
10-04-2010, 10:42 PM
#1706
Honda Fanboy
10-04-2010, 10:47 PM
#1707
Senior Moderator
And the turbo and hybrid aren't even on sale yet. The Sonata has
gone this far with one engine option and body style.
Last edited by dom; 10-04-2010 at 10:49 PM.
10-04-2010, 11:03 PM
#1708
My only car is a Bus
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Mercedes-Benz Snatches Top Luxury Sales Spot From Lexus
As overall car sales--and most of the rest of the economy--remain cool, the luxury market continues to heat up, with several manufacturers posting record sales in recent months. Mercedes-Benz in particular is on a roll, thanks in part to the misfortunes of Lexus and parent Toyota. As of September, Mercedes managed to take the top U.S. luxury sales title from Lexus.
Lexus had led the way through the year to date, but Mercedes' surge on the back of Sprinter vans and E-Class sedans pushed it over the top. Total sales for Mercedes so far are at 165,427, almost 3,000 more than Lexus. BMW is closing the gap as well, at 157,464 cars sold through September.
According to Automotive News, BMW could be selling even more cars if it could keep inventory high enough to match demand. The X3 in particular is in short supply.
Audi is posting solid sales figures itself, posting its best-ever third quarter this year, though its 23.6 percent year-on-year rise in total sales to 73,590 isn't enough to keep pace with the bigger German marques.
Beyond the Germans and Lexus, total sales volumes are up, but not in the range of the top three. Cadillac, for instance, has sold 44 percent more cars through 2010 than to date in 2009, but is at just 12,620 cars total. Lincoln, likewise, is up 25.6 percent for September and 6.8 percent for the year, but has sold 63,286 cars through September.
http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1...pot-from-lexus
Lexus had led the way through the year to date, but Mercedes' surge on the back of Sprinter vans and E-Class sedans pushed it over the top. Total sales for Mercedes so far are at 165,427, almost 3,000 more than Lexus. BMW is closing the gap as well, at 157,464 cars sold through September.
According to Automotive News, BMW could be selling even more cars if it could keep inventory high enough to match demand. The X3 in particular is in short supply.
Audi is posting solid sales figures itself, posting its best-ever third quarter this year, though its 23.6 percent year-on-year rise in total sales to 73,590 isn't enough to keep pace with the bigger German marques.
Beyond the Germans and Lexus, total sales volumes are up, but not in the range of the top three. Cadillac, for instance, has sold 44 percent more cars through 2010 than to date in 2009, but is at just 12,620 cars total. Lincoln, likewise, is up 25.6 percent for September and 6.8 percent for the year, but has sold 63,286 cars through September.
http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1...pot-from-lexus
10-04-2010, 11:06 PM
#1709
Honda Fanboy
10-05-2010, 09:18 AM
#1712
You guys just want me to forward you my ignore list? It'll give you all a head start
10-05-2010, 09:23 AM
#1713
Really? I just went back and skimmed some of the posts.... it all started from bringing up the fact that the Sonata is getting closer and closer to the Honda Accord in terms of sales numbers.
Why so srs?
Why so srs?
10-05-2010, 09:31 AM
#1714
Senior Moderator
But I think we have to accept the fact that at some point in the near future the Sonata will outsell the Accord. At least until the Accord's FMC. Can any of us have seen that coming a few years or even 1 year ago today? Give credit where credit is due.
The Camry's next.
The Camry's next.
I apologize that it degenerated into what it did. Carry on.
10-05-2010, 09:47 AM
#1715
Its fine.... just don't see how some people can be so defensive about Honda/Acura sales numbers or just Honda or just any company in general. If you have stock invested in them, fine..... but I didn't think there was a blood oath for the company.
10-05-2010, 10:15 AM
#1716
I was thinking the same thing when I started reading his posts. You should check your mailbox dom as im sure you'll be recieving some mail from him soon...I went through a similar debate with VTEC Racer last year when again he was trying to pass his opinion off as fact. When I proved him wrong much like you did I started getting threatening PM's saying he was going to run me and several others off of Acurazine like he has done before. (I see that worked well for him)
I think Mourning Would has the best advice concerning the ignore list.
This is all I was getting at, really. This wasn't an attack on the Accord but simply to point out how strong the Sonata has become. And I don't even like the Sonata all that much, I'd probably take an Accord over one if given the choice.
I apologize that it degenerated into what it did. Carry on.
I apologize that it degenerated into what it did. Carry on.
10-05-2010, 12:00 PM
#1717
Trolling Canuckistan
Moving product is moving product.
10-05-2010, 12:26 PM
#1718
Nissan Altima and Ford Fusion also had sales closer to 20k mark. which are much better reflection because they are 2 to 3 year old and none of them had 10 year warranty. we have to wait untill 2nd and 3rd year sonata whether i can maintain its sales momenutm.
10-05-2010, 04:57 PM
#1719
Registered Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
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"Fleet sales are a negative, even Hyundai thinks so. Glad to know you're more positive than even Hyundai is though."
Who said that?
Yeah, well I guess someone needs to tell VWAG, Daimler, and BMW because:
"Audi and BMW "have the fewest private customers of all brands in Germany," with just 33.5% and 32.8% respectively. Mercedes was least likely to send a vehicle to Deutsch Hertz, with 50.1% going to private owners. VW rang in at 47.5%, Ford at 41%, and Opel tallied 39%."
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/04/12/f...-issue-abroad/
Some people just fail hard when they open their mouth and spew shit they know nothing about
Who said that?
Yeah, well I guess someone needs to tell VWAG, Daimler, and BMW because:
"Audi and BMW "have the fewest private customers of all brands in Germany," with just 33.5% and 32.8% respectively. Mercedes was least likely to send a vehicle to Deutsch Hertz, with 50.1% going to private owners. VW rang in at 47.5%, Ford at 41%, and Opel tallied 39%."
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/04/12/f...-issue-abroad/
Some people just fail hard when they open their mouth and spew shit they know nothing about
10-05-2010, 08:27 PM
#1720
Honda Fanboy
I was thinking the same thing when I started reading his posts. You should check your mailbox dom as im sure you'll be recieving some mail from him soon...I went through a similar debate with VTEC Racer last year when again he was trying to pass his opinion off as fact. When I proved him wrong much like you did I started getting threatening PM's saying he was going to run me and several others off of Acurazine like he has done before. (I see that worked well for him)
I think Mourning Would has the best advice concerning the ignore list.
LOL, No need to apologize dom. I believe the majority of us here knew where you are going with this.....it was just entertaining.