Monthly Car Sales news
09-04-2010, 04:53 PM
#1481
אני עומד עם ישראל
I would respectfully disagree with you on this one. I test drove the M37X and it felt like the TL brother or sister. The 2 cars shares some key elements: roomy, great features, AWD, roughly the same speed (the TL will probably become a little faster with the MMC due to the 6AT), same length. The TL is more agile and corners much better but the M37X has that RWD feeling and steering feel felt a little heavier (not a bad thing, it depends what you want). The only thing I missed from the M are the cooled seats but I wouldn't pay the 8-10k difference for that (between a loaded TL and M37X). Rain sensing wipers and auto-leveling lights and adaptive cruise control are not key features on a car for me since I have no use for them.
My friend has a GS430 and again the TL and the GS are close friends. All are big comfy sedans, all great cars some sportier than others, some more comfy cruisers.
IMHO, they are all pretty close siblings. I don't understand people who don't see the M37x, GS 350 AWD and TL sh-awd as direct competitors: same weight, same length, same tires size, same fuel economy, great sound systems, quiet, comfy for 4 tall adults and a long list of features. All have their pluses and minuses, it all depends of what you're looking for but they are all well built...
Peace!
-YetiTL
My friend has a GS430 and again the TL and the GS are close friends. All are big comfy sedans, all great cars some sportier than others, some more comfy cruisers.
IMHO, they are all pretty close siblings. I don't understand people who don't see the M37x, GS 350 AWD and TL sh-awd as direct competitors: same weight, same length, same tires size, same fuel economy, great sound systems, quiet, comfy for 4 tall adults and a long list of features. All have their pluses and minuses, it all depends of what you're looking for but they are all well built...
Peace!
-YetiTL
I'm not trying to diss your car, I've sang its praises in the past and voiced what I perceive to be its short comings. The M37X starts a few thousand above what the TL SH-AWD tops out at and the same is true with the Lexus. It simply isn't in the same league.
09-04-2010, 04:56 PM
#1482
I would respectfully disagree with you on this one. I test drove the M37X and it felt like the TL brother or sister. The 2 cars shares some key elements: roomy, great features, AWD, roughly the same speed (the TL will probably become a little faster with the MMC due to the 6AT), same length. The TL is more agile and corners much better but the M37X has that RWD feeling and steering feel felt a little heavier (not a bad thing, it depends what you want). The only thing I missed from the M are the cooled seats but I wouldn't pay the 8-10k difference for that (between a loaded TL and M37X). Rain sensing wipers and auto-leveling lights and adaptive cruise control are not key features on a car for me since I have no use for them.
My friend has a GS430 and again the TL and the GS are close friends. All are big comfy sedans, all great cars some sportier than others, some more comfy cruisers.
IMHO, they are all pretty close siblings. I don't understand people who don't see the M37x, GS 350 AWD and TL sh-awd as direct competitors: same weight, same length, same tires size, same fuel economy, great sound systems, quiet, comfy for 4 tall adults and a long list of features. All have their pluses and minuses, it all depends of what you're looking for but they are all well built...
Peace!
-YetiTL
My friend has a GS430 and again the TL and the GS are close friends. All are big comfy sedans, all great cars some sportier than others, some more comfy cruisers.
IMHO, they are all pretty close siblings. I don't understand people who don't see the M37x, GS 350 AWD and TL sh-awd as direct competitors: same weight, same length, same tires size, same fuel economy, great sound systems, quiet, comfy for 4 tall adults and a long list of features. All have their pluses and minuses, it all depends of what you're looking for but they are all well built...
Peace!
-YetiTL
In my opinion, the 4G TL is tweener, as some others have stated, its above the 3-Series level but not quite at the 5-Series level and same goes for the other luxury manufacturers. It seems to be in between entry-level lux sedan and luxury sedan categories right now. Even Acura has admitted its in transition upmarket right now. I don't think its going to be a full fledged 5, E, A6, M, GS competitor until the 5G TL when the transistion upmarket for the TL is complete. Just my
09-04-2010, 05:21 PM
#1483
The TL is a wonderful car, I don't care much for the looks or the size, but it is not seen as a direct competitor. Maybe they are cross shopped every once in a while. Look at it from a feature and price stand point.
I'm not trying to diss your car, I've sang its praises in the past and voiced what I perceive to be its short comings. The M37X starts a few thousand above what the TL SH-AWD tops out at and the same is true with the Lexus. It simply isn't in the same league.
I'm not trying to diss your car, I've sang its praises in the past and voiced what I perceive to be its short comings. The M37X starts a few thousand above what the TL SH-AWD tops out at and the same is true with the Lexus. It simply isn't in the same league.
There is no evidence either what people are cross shopping. People looking to buy TL or RL end up buying MDX.
M37 starts few thousand more because it is imported. and no one knows how much Infiniti losing money by discountingImported Vehicle like G37.
Acura is always smart luxury.
Outside US BMW X5 is way more expensive than BMW 5 series but in US BMW 5 is more expensive than BMW X5 AWD let alone AWD BMW 5.
09-04-2010, 05:33 PM
#1484
אני עומד עם ישראל
What about the TL being discounted heavily. My 3G was purchased in '06 with Navi for $30,500 before TTL MSRP was 35 and change.
Fast forward to July and I walk into an Acura store they wanted to sell me a 6MT TL SH-AWD w/HPT for 37,500 before TTL with an MSRP of I believe 43,600 so what do you have to say about discounts again?????
Fast forward to July and I walk into an Acura store they wanted to sell me a 6MT TL SH-AWD w/HPT for 37,500 before TTL with an MSRP of I believe 43,600 so what do you have to say about discounts again?????
09-04-2010, 05:41 PM
#1485
אני עומד עם ישראל
I mean you can mag race, quote whatever you want to quote, but I was actually in the market with money to burn and this is what I was offered for the TL.
09-04-2010, 05:52 PM
#1486
Yup and MB S class could be bought for $100k in 1992 and i can still buy same class for $100K.
There is couple of factors involved. First Increase Automation and productivity gains. Honda is the leader in this field. It can offer more for the same amount of money. Second Honda has much more standardization, larger supplier base.
Third there is Honda engineers design ability. that despite having much larger size, heavier vehcile. Performance has not deterioted bad compared to 400lbs lighter, lower 3G TL-S.
TL-SH-AWD has nearly identical or better straight line performance than 3G TL-S. So honda continue to use older technology.
Technological backwater like Nissan has to constantly reinvent the wheel by though new transmissions/engines even V8 and extensive leather to make car better. Honda is more simple and elegant luxury.
There is couple of factors involved. First Increase Automation and productivity gains. Honda is the leader in this field. It can offer more for the same amount of money. Second Honda has much more standardization, larger supplier base.
Third there is Honda engineers design ability. that despite having much larger size, heavier vehcile. Performance has not deterioted bad compared to 400lbs lighter, lower 3G TL-S.
TL-SH-AWD has nearly identical or better straight line performance than 3G TL-S. So honda continue to use older technology.
Technological backwater like Nissan has to constantly reinvent the wheel by though new transmissions/engines even V8 and extensive leather to make car better. Honda is more simple and elegant luxury.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/03/bu...html?src=busln
Toyota Feels Exchange-Rate Pinch as Rivals Gain
A total of 35 percent of the cars Toyota sells in North America are imported, compared with 10 percent for Honda
Toyota Feels Exchange-Rate Pinch as Rivals Gain
A total of 35 percent of the cars Toyota sells in North America are imported, compared with 10 percent for Honda
09-04-2010, 05:58 PM
#1487
אני עומד עם ישראל
What the fuck does any of that have to do with what they were offering to sell the car for and what it stickers for?
You were talking about discounts on Nissan/Infiniti so I countered with this is the discounts I was offered on a Honda vehicle TWICE. The last two times I was in the market.
There is a difference between what is said in a magazine and what happens in the real world. I look at it like this, I wanted to buy a car and this is what they were going for. Then you counter by saying this from edmunds, that from car and driver and how none of the cars a class above the TL hold a candle to it.
It's like you telling me how conditions on the ground are in Iraq, by saying oh there's less American combat deaths. While I was actually there and can tell you my ass was shot at daily, injured and been through four Humvees. Then you tell me that's because if I was driving a TL it would survive the blast due to it's superior NVH levels. Not only would it survive the IED, I'd barely hear the explosion to boot.
Once again, DOES NOT COMPUTE.
You were talking about discounts on Nissan/Infiniti so I countered with this is the discounts I was offered on a Honda vehicle TWICE. The last two times I was in the market.
There is a difference between what is said in a magazine and what happens in the real world. I look at it like this, I wanted to buy a car and this is what they were going for. Then you counter by saying this from edmunds, that from car and driver and how none of the cars a class above the TL hold a candle to it.
It's like you telling me how conditions on the ground are in Iraq, by saying oh there's less American combat deaths. While I was actually there and can tell you my ass was shot at daily, injured and been through four Humvees. Then you tell me that's because if I was driving a TL it would survive the blast due to it's superior NVH levels. Not only would it survive the IED, I'd barely hear the explosion to boot.
Once again, DOES NOT COMPUTE.
09-04-2010, 06:07 PM
#1488
Honda discounts easy to see as it is same standar product. Infinti/Lexus are hard to quantify as when you built it with options M37 goes to $60K. and than if you buy it for $48K. it is like $12k discount. but car base price is $46k
in the end it does not matter as used car market sort these things out. Acura has the highest resale value. you can pretty much calculate size of discount from used car sale price.
Infiniti has 72 month financing on M for 3.9%. which is below market rate for this length of cost of money. so atleast $2k to $3k discounting just because of cost of money.
in the end it does not matter as used car market sort these things out. Acura has the highest resale value. you can pretty much calculate size of discount from used car sale price.
Infiniti has 72 month financing on M for 3.9%. which is below market rate for this length of cost of money. so atleast $2k to $3k discounting just because of cost of money.
09-04-2010, 06:09 PM
#1489
אני עומד עם ישראל
Doesn't matter if you qualify for the special financing. We are talking about sticker price and sale price. Nothing else.
I got 1.9% from Infiniti and from Acura what is your point? Once again, I was in the market for a car and you're just typing out of God knows where.
I got 1.9% from Infiniti and from Acura what is your point? Once again, I was in the market for a car and you're just typing out of God knows where.
09-04-2010, 06:35 PM
#1490
Burning Brakes
I definitely agree the 4G TL has moved upmarket so it competes with GS/M/5/E but it still doesn't offer V8 or as many features, but it also cost less.
TSX V6 is 3G TL replacement.
TSX V6 is 3G TL replacement.
09-04-2010, 06:38 PM
#1491
אני עומד עם ישראל
It is not a direct competitor. Period.
09-04-2010, 06:45 PM
#1492
Burning Brakes
Agreed. But the TL has always been bigger than the 3 series, A4 and C-Class. Not to mention it has always been FWD, so does that mean it was never a direct competitor to anything?
Also the TSX has always just been a FWD sedan with NA I4, but now its about the same size as a 3G TL so what does it compete with?
Whether we like it or not, Japanese cars just seem to be getting bigger and bigger
Also the TSX has always just been a FWD sedan with NA I4, but now its about the same size as a 3G TL so what does it compete with?
Whether we like it or not, Japanese cars just seem to be getting bigger and bigger
09-04-2010, 06:57 PM
#1493
אני עומד עם ישראל
Based on sales and what it is cross shopped with the TL still falls in the entry lux market. That includes the ES300 a FWD V6 and the CTS. I'd love to see the TL go after the 5er, but right now that is not realistic.
The 5G TL may move it upmarket enough in price and feature content for it to be seriously considered and cross shopped. I cross shopped a 6MT TL SH-AWD with a G37S. The RL would be closer of a competitor to the 5, E, M, A6 etc...
TSX goes after the IS250 crowd and FWD A4 peeps I guess.
The 5G TL may move it upmarket enough in price and feature content for it to be seriously considered and cross shopped. I cross shopped a 6MT TL SH-AWD with a G37S. The RL would be closer of a competitor to the 5, E, M, A6 etc...
TSX goes after the IS250 crowd and FWD A4 peeps I guess.
09-04-2010, 06:59 PM
#1494
אני עומד עם ישראל
TSX I believe is what they call pre-lux. I don't make this shit up just showing you where they fall and end up on in the comparison tests.
09-04-2010, 07:27 PM
#1495
Pro
The TL is a wonderful car, I don't care much for the looks or the size, but it is not seen as a direct competitor. Maybe they are cross shopped every once in a while. Look at it from a feature and price stand point.
I'm not trying to diss your car, I've sang its praises in the past and voiced what I perceive to be its short comings. The M37X starts a few thousand above what the TL SH-AWD tops out at and the same is true with the Lexus. It simply isn't in the same league.
I'm not trying to diss your car, I've sang its praises in the past and voiced what I perceive to be its short comings. The M37X starts a few thousand above what the TL SH-AWD tops out at and the same is true with the Lexus. It simply isn't in the same league.
I totally agree about the features but I must say the TL is hard to classify. It's easy to see the differences between G37/M37, IS/GS, 3/5 series...but TL/RL isn't so evident. The tweener status make it an inbetween, winning the value contest but losing the features contest.
-YetiTL
09-04-2010, 07:33 PM
#1496
אני עומד עם ישראל
Well put brother.
09-04-2010, 07:33 PM
#1497
Pro
I mean your friends and you are entitled to their opinions of course, but I respectively disagree. I have yet to hear those luxury sedans being cross shopped with the TL from many people I know who only buy luxury sedans. Everyone can quote mags and opinions but even when the sales numbers come out, the TL is still listed in the entry-level lux segment and that is still its competitors. The TL, even fully loaded, lacks many mechanical and feature contents that those more expensive luxury sedans have. That nothing against the TL, it comes very well equipped for its price but still lacks a lot of luxury sedan feactures.
In my opinion, the 4G TL is tweener, as some others have stated, its above the 3-Series level but not quite at the 5-Series level and same goes for the other luxury manufacturers. It seems to be in between entry-level lux sedan and luxury sedan categories right now. Even Acura has admitted its in transition upmarket right now. I don't think its going to be a full fledged 5, E, A6, M, GS competitor until the 5G TL when the transistion upmarket for the TL is complete. Just my
In my opinion, the 4G TL is tweener, as some others have stated, its above the 3-Series level but not quite at the 5-Series level and same goes for the other luxury manufacturers. It seems to be in between entry-level lux sedan and luxury sedan categories right now. Even Acura has admitted its in transition upmarket right now. I don't think its going to be a full fledged 5, E, A6, M, GS competitor until the 5G TL when the transistion upmarket for the TL is complete. Just my
End of my ramblings lol!
09-04-2010, 08:17 PM
#1498
No, its not competing with any of those luxury sedans yet. You have to wait for the complete shift upmarket in the 5G TL till you'll be able to effectively be considered a competitor to those luxury sedans and even that is speculation at this point since we have no idea what the 5G TL is going to be like and won't until the 2014 model year!
09-04-2010, 08:20 PM
#1499
Honda discounts easy to see as it is same standar product. Infinti/Lexus are hard to quantify as when you built it with options M37 goes to $60K. and than if you buy it for $48K. it is like $12k discount. but car base price is $46k
in the end it does not matter as used car market sort these things out. Acura has the highest resale value. you can pretty much calculate size of discount from used car sale price.
Infiniti has 72 month financing on M for 3.9%. which is below market rate for this length of cost of money. so atleast $2k to $3k discounting just because of cost of money.
in the end it does not matter as used car market sort these things out. Acura has the highest resale value. you can pretty much calculate size of discount from used car sale price.
Infiniti has 72 month financing on M for 3.9%. which is below market rate for this length of cost of money. so atleast $2k to $3k discounting just because of cost of money.
09-04-2010, 08:24 PM
#1500
Yup and MB S class could be bought for $100k in 1992 and i can still buy same class for $100K.
There is couple of factors involved. First Increase Automation and productivity gains. Honda is the leader in this field. It can offer more for the same amount of money. Second Honda has much more standardization, larger supplier base.
Third there is Honda engineers design ability. that despite having much larger size, heavier vehcile. Performance has not deterioted bad compared to 400lbs lighter, lower 3G TL-S.
TL-SH-AWD has nearly identical or better straight line performance than 3G TL-S. So honda continue to use older technology.
Technological backwater like Nissan has to constantly reinvent the wheel by though new transmissions/engines even V8 and extensive leather to make car better. Honda is more simple and elegant luxury.
There is couple of factors involved. First Increase Automation and productivity gains. Honda is the leader in this field. It can offer more for the same amount of money. Second Honda has much more standardization, larger supplier base.
Third there is Honda engineers design ability. that despite having much larger size, heavier vehcile. Performance has not deterioted bad compared to 400lbs lighter, lower 3G TL-S.
TL-SH-AWD has nearly identical or better straight line performance than 3G TL-S. So honda continue to use older technology.
Technological backwater like Nissan has to constantly reinvent the wheel by though new transmissions/engines even V8 and extensive leather to make car better. Honda is more simple and elegant luxury.
. Also, I have cooled seats, power rear sunshade, heated steering wheel, rear audio/climate controls, auto dimming side mirrors, dual panel moonroof, power steering column, etc in my Maxima. Yeah, they really don't do anything with technology that Nissan company. Oh wait you still can't get any of that in the current TL, even loaded up to 42-43k bucks! 
09-04-2010, 09:11 PM
#1501
Yeah, Nissan/Infiniti is such a technological backwater that is why they can put a seat heater in the passenger front seat back when Honda/Acura still cannot . Also, I have cooled seats, power rear sunshade, heated steering wheel, rear audio/climate controls, auto dimming side mirrors, dual panel moonroof, power steering column, etc in my Maxima. Yeah, they really don't do anything with technology that Nissan company. Oh wait you still can't get any of that in the current TL, even loaded up to 42-43k bucks!
. Also, I have cooled seats, power rear sunshade, heated steering wheel, rear audio/climate controls, auto dimming side mirrors, dual panel moonroof, power steering column, etc in my Maxima. Yeah, they really don't do anything with technology that Nissan company. Oh wait you still can't get any of that in the current TL, even loaded up to 42-43k bucks! ZDX has cooled seats and its not the feature that make it higher tier than TL.
It is quality of dash and IDS. (integrated dynamic system). it is Acura equivalent of Audi drive select. Rest of the stuff like blind spot monitoring/ACC is pretty common. Even EuroAccord has those features outside US but EuroAccord dont have IDS.
TL handling, NVH, breaking, performance, interior and exterior design set it apart from maintream vehicles. and it competes well on those features with other midsize premium vehicles.
09-04-2010, 09:17 PM
#1502
אני עומד עם ישראל
Then why is the TL not directly up against the 5, E, A6, M in those comparison tests from those magazines that you swear by?
09-04-2010, 09:22 PM
#1503
they presumbly dont want to embrass $60k car with $40k car. it is matter of time before they bring it up. there is no Lexus GS/Genesis/RL either in those recent tests either.
09-04-2010, 09:36 PM
#1504
Senior Moderator
SSFTSX... you cute. This was only 8 months ago.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...2#post11657772
OK there are tons more of the same in that thread. Its safe to assume SSFTSX just likes to support the underdog. Its way of getting attention. He knows if he praises the TL in the TL section then no one would give him a look. Poor guy.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...2#post11657772
Originally Posted by SSFTSX
so ur just one person who made decision that because ur going to buy large AWD/6MT car so it is good value for rest.
It is too early too say if there is large market of 6MT/AWD full size car with midsize interior dimenion. second ur constantly bring BMW which is 2003 design and likely to be changed in 6 month time. so it is sensible to wait for newer versions of real luxury cars. there is great chance of 535D. so u will get nearly twice the fuel economy of TL-SH-AWD. Car is long term investment no one should invest in outdated and not so luxury $45k car.
both A6/BMW despite being in there last years of life gives u more value of money, more refinement, more technology from navigation to engines to transmission with better fuel economy/performance. offcourse larger value of car. the faster its depreciation. BMW isnt particularly successful in selling AWD cars anyway.
u havent answered how big and comfortable is TL-SH-AWD and why do u think it will have same resale value advantage against newer competition.
It is too early too say if there is large market of 6MT/AWD full size car with midsize interior dimenion. second ur constantly bring BMW which is 2003 design and likely to be changed in 6 month time. so it is sensible to wait for newer versions of real luxury cars. there is great chance of 535D. so u will get nearly twice the fuel economy of TL-SH-AWD. Car is long term investment no one should invest in outdated and not so luxury $45k car.
both A6/BMW despite being in there last years of life gives u more value of money, more refinement, more technology from navigation to engines to transmission with better fuel economy/performance. offcourse larger value of car. the faster its depreciation. BMW isnt particularly successful in selling AWD cars anyway.
u havent answered how big and comfortable is TL-SH-AWD and why do u think it will have same resale value advantage against newer competition.
Originally Posted by SSFTSX
ur basicallly saying that TL-SH-AWD is value which it is not. i dont think its sales are more than 300 per month. IS/GS are smaller vehicle but u have
A6 whose sales are 600 to 700 per month. A6 3.0T prestige can be for $55K.
A6 is longer wheel base and 200lbs heavier vehicle for more luxurios drive.
It gives u standard 6speed Auto (better freeway economy, performance), 4 wheel ventilated brakes, blind spot monitoring, 3G MMI (3D topography in navigation with enhanced graphics), head protection airbags for rear occupants, adoptive lights with LED, folding exterior mirrors, mutli level heating with 12 way adjustments, LED interior lighting, puddle lighting with fibre optic technology, larger fuel tank for longer driving.
A6 whose sales are 600 to 700 per month. A6 3.0T prestige can be for $55K.
A6 is longer wheel base and 200lbs heavier vehicle for more luxurios drive.
It gives u standard 6speed Auto (better freeway economy, performance), 4 wheel ventilated brakes, blind spot monitoring, 3G MMI (3D topography in navigation with enhanced graphics), head protection airbags for rear occupants, adoptive lights with LED, folding exterior mirrors, mutli level heating with 12 way adjustments, LED interior lighting, puddle lighting with fibre optic technology, larger fuel tank for longer driving.
Originally Posted by SSFTSX
BMW 535 has 61 dba of NVH and TL-SH-AWD is 69 dba. These are not even in same segment so why even compare?. BMW has much better mid range performance and fuel economy, larger boot etc.
u need larger car but not need larger boot? what purpose is of large car. to have isolated and luxurios ride with large internal and boot capacity with increase automation. I dont see any other reason for buying larger size car. or it is just for show.
how many 6MT/AWD BMW 5 series are there?. ur creating artificial market to justify TL value.
In luxury car segement. increase automation is the way to go. MB E series is now the leader. no one want to manual shift 195inch size car let alone put AWD in it and make it firmer ride. and ride of car is directly proportional to length of wheel base, type of tires, suspension and seats. I am not sure TL-SH-AWD is that more comfortable than Maxima/A4/MB C series. infact A4 has longer wheel base than TL and others are practically equal in wheel base with much larger boot capacity and split fold rear seats. this is called value of money.
Simply put it. for thos who want sporty performance they can get BMW 3/A4 with sport/ S line package or go all the way with M3/S4. Any thing larger than this size is in pure premium luxury league where MB E/BMW 5 shines but not AWD sport/6MT sport suspension models. even A6 with AWD is nich market.
it seems ur artificially creating a market segment that fits TL larger size (you always overlook that it is very inefficient interior and boot capacity)
look at Driver comfort , interior fit/finish, ride. this thing defines luxury car segment and this time is from C&D. where sporty cars used to win but not in this segement where pure luxury is the defining moment not sporty handling.
http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...fea8b89a83.pdf
u need larger car but not need larger boot? what purpose is of large car. to have isolated and luxurios ride with large internal and boot capacity with increase automation. I dont see any other reason for buying larger size car. or it is just for show.
how many 6MT/AWD BMW 5 series are there?. ur creating artificial market to justify TL value.
In luxury car segement. increase automation is the way to go. MB E series is now the leader. no one want to manual shift 195inch size car let alone put AWD in it and make it firmer ride. and ride of car is directly proportional to length of wheel base, type of tires, suspension and seats. I am not sure TL-SH-AWD is that more comfortable than Maxima/A4/MB C series. infact A4 has longer wheel base than TL and others are practically equal in wheel base with much larger boot capacity and split fold rear seats. this is called value of money.
Simply put it. for thos who want sporty performance they can get BMW 3/A4 with sport/ S line package or go all the way with M3/S4. Any thing larger than this size is in pure premium luxury league where MB E/BMW 5 shines but not AWD sport/6MT sport suspension models. even A6 with AWD is nich market.
it seems ur artificially creating a market segment that fits TL larger size (you always overlook that it is very inefficient interior and boot capacity)
look at Driver comfort , interior fit/finish, ride. this thing defines luxury car segment and this time is from C&D. where sporty cars used to win but not in this segement where pure luxury is the defining moment not sporty handling.
http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...fea8b89a83.pdf
09-04-2010, 09:54 PM
#1505
אני עומד עם ישראל
mycar..... where are you bro??? I see you lurking I know your ass wants to respond!!
09-04-2010, 09:59 PM
#1506
אני עומד עם ישראל
How fucking funny the TL guys in that thread pick him apart like we do here except he has done a complete 180 on his position. You're allowed to change your mind, but Jesus fuck man you're like Italy in WWII.
09-04-2010, 10:01 PM
#1507
אני עומד עם ישראל
This one is a fucking gem! https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...4&postcount=85
09-04-2010, 10:59 PM
#1508
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09-05-2010, 12:13 AM
#1509
Burning Brakes
No, its not competing with any of those luxury sedans yet. You have to wait for the complete shift upmarket in the 5G TL till you'll be able to effectively be considered a competitor to those luxury sedans and even that is speculation at this point since we have no idea what the 5G TL is going to be like and won't until the 2014 model year!
That is your opinion. I had mine. Neither is completely accurate since we both agree the TL is a tweener. Which is what u said earlier "In my opinion, the 4G TL is tweener, as some others have stated, its above the 3-Series level but not quite at the 5-Series level and same goes for the other luxury manufacturers. It seems to be in between entry-level lux sedan and luxury sedan categories right now. "
I think it CAN be cross shopped with a 3 series or a 5 series. It does not HAVE to be in either category.
09-05-2010, 12:31 AM
#1510
TL with 5speed auto dont compete but wtih 6MT the car becomes 1 second faster. No other large car has been transformed with same engine like that in history. The difference in performance between 6MT and 5speed Auto is huge for this class of car.
You can literlly reach 100mph in less than 14 sec. This is clearly V8 performance for such wide and heavy car.
http://www.insideline.com/acura/tl/2...full-test.html
At 5.6 seconds to 60 mph (5.4 seconds with a 1-foot rollout like on a drag strip) and 13.9 through the quarter-mile at 100.1 mph, this car matches almost exactly the numbers posted by the last G37 we tested. Sure, that Infiniti was equipped with a seven-speed automatic, but a G37 coupe we tested was no faster with the six-speed manual.
At 5.6 seconds to 60 mph (5.4 seconds with a 1-foot rollout like on a drag strip) and 13.9 through the quarter-mile at 100.1 mph, this car matches almost exactly the numbers posted by the last G37 we tested. Sure, that Infiniti was equipped with a seven-speed automatic, but a G37 coupe we tested was no faster with the six-speed manual.
09-05-2010, 12:37 AM
#1511
Car with All season tires is faster by full 1 second at quarter mile. Imagine C&D test 6MT with PS2.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test
Snicking off our own gearchanges liberated 0.8 second from the 0-to-60-mph time (5.2 seconds versus 6.0) and cleaved a full second from the quarter-mile, and we gathered an extra 4 mph on the way, for a 13.8-second pass at 101 mph.
The manual is a little lighter overall than the automatic (72 pounds), but this doesn’t much affect the TL’s fundamental dynamic balance. Skidpad grip drops some, to 0.88, from the 0.92 g we’ve reported in previous tests, but that’s the result of downgrading from the summer-only Michelin Pilot Sport PS2s on previous cars to Pilot HX MXM4s on this one
Snicking off our own gearchanges liberated 0.8 second from the 0-to-60-mph time (5.2 seconds versus 6.0) and cleaved a full second from the quarter-mile, and we gathered an extra 4 mph on the way, for a 13.8-second pass at 101 mph.
The manual is a little lighter overall than the automatic (72 pounds), but this doesn’t much affect the TL’s fundamental dynamic balance. Skidpad grip drops some, to 0.88, from the 0.92 g we’ve reported in previous tests, but that’s the result of downgrading from the summer-only Michelin Pilot Sport PS2s on previous cars to Pilot HX MXM4s on this one
09-05-2010, 12:44 AM
#1512
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You don't understand cars, much less the operation of an engine or an all wheel drive system. Your opinions are formed primarily by blind loyalty and you then use biased, paid-for magazines and reviews to support it. Even a clock that doesn't keep time is on time twice in a day. You take advantage of that to support your false information.
The A6 3.0T is much quicker than the automatic TL. What do you think would happen if it was gifted with a manual?
I will speculate right now that you will hide behind the "large" word. Many cars have received manuals and proved dramatically quicker than the automatic, so your comments are knowingly false (and I know you know, that's why).
That's not a direct comparison. V8/automatic is not a direct comparison with a V6/manual.
09-05-2010, 01:15 AM
#1513
This is pretty funny to read through...So much argument over relatively inexpensive/run of the mill cars. Performance is fun to read about, but people who buy these cars do not care about any of that, or even know what 90% of these numbers mean. Acura had the chance to keep its momentum going that it built up from the early 00's to this generation, but it designed an ugly boat, and design is what it all comes down to. Maybe not to you, me, or anyone else on this board-but it does in the real world. Your average customer isn't going to base his purchase (in this segment) around 0-60 times or quarter mile times. How the 4G design got approved by their design studio and made it into production is beyond me....must be that california kush.
Last edited by FiveLiterCheater; 09-05-2010 at 01:26 AM.
09-05-2010, 02:42 AM
#1514
Being so against a car and they so supportive of a car with disregard for logic IS wrong.
You don't understand cars, much less the operation of an engine or an all wheel drive system. Your opinions are formed primarily by blind loyalty and you then use biased, paid-for magazines and reviews to support it. Even a clock that doesn't keep time is on time twice in a day. You take advantage of that to support your false information.
This is 100% false, and shame on you for lying. The sentence following it is much more accurate.
You don't understand cars, much less the operation of an engine or an all wheel drive system. Your opinions are formed primarily by blind loyalty and you then use biased, paid-for magazines and reviews to support it. Even a clock that doesn't keep time is on time twice in a day. You take advantage of that to support your false information.
This is 100% false, and shame on you for lying. The sentence following it is much more accurate.
The A6 3.0T is much quicker than the automatic TL. What do you think would happen if it was gifted with a manual?
I will speculate right now that you will hide behind the "large" word. Many cars have received manuals and proved dramatically quicker than the automatic, so your comments are knowingly false (and I know you know, that's why).
That's not a direct comparison. V8/automatic is not a direct comparison with a V6/manual.
My assertions still stands. No other large car has been transformed from Auto to manual like 6MT TL.
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...4/engines.html
The Audi's extra thrust should have been a huge advantage at Pittsburgh's BeaveRun racetrack, which rewards straight-line speed with two long straightaways -- especially since, on paper, the Acura carries no advantage in cornering or braking: the two cars have similar weight, tire section width, and suspension designs. The Audi's slightly better weight distribution would, we thought, be nixed by the Acura's wider track. And we were right -- as expected, the cars posted similar braking and cornering numbers in standardized testing.
But on a racetrack, the TL showed us exactly why Acura used the word "super" to describe its Super-Handling All-Wheel-Drive system. Despite its significant power advantage, the Audi S4's fastest lap beat the TL's by only 0.4 second
The Acura is blessed with nearly perfect cornering balance, so its rear differential can easily and dramatically alter the car's handling attitude. It takes a little while to build up trust in the system, but you soon realize that if the car can handle any amount of power in the middle of a turn, it can handle anything the V-6 can throw at it. There's no reason to be scared of the right pedal-the TL begs you to steer it with the throttle. The more power you add, the more neutral the TL's cornering balance and the faster it scrambles through turns. Indeed, the Acura was faster than the Audi through nearly every single corner at BeaveRun
The Audi's extra thrust should have been a huge advantage at Pittsburgh's BeaveRun racetrack, which rewards straight-line speed with two long straightaways -- especially since, on paper, the Acura carries no advantage in cornering or braking: the two cars have similar weight, tire section width, and suspension designs. The Audi's slightly better weight distribution would, we thought, be nixed by the Acura's wider track. And we were right -- as expected, the cars posted similar braking and cornering numbers in standardized testing.
But on a racetrack, the TL showed us exactly why Acura used the word "super" to describe its Super-Handling All-Wheel-Drive system. Despite its significant power advantage, the Audi S4's fastest lap beat the TL's by only 0.4 second
The Acura is blessed with nearly perfect cornering balance, so its rear differential can easily and dramatically alter the car's handling attitude. It takes a little while to build up trust in the system, but you soon realize that if the car can handle any amount of power in the middle of a turn, it can handle anything the V-6 can throw at it. There's no reason to be scared of the right pedal-the TL begs you to steer it with the throttle. The more power you add, the more neutral the TL's cornering balance and the faster it scrambles through turns. Indeed, the Acura was faster than the Audi through nearly every single corner at BeaveRun
09-05-2010, 03:04 AM
#1515
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Exclusive features do not make the TL special, and the TL actually lacks a lot of features that cheaper cars have. I don't know what exclusive features you mean are. Advanced AWD doesn't cut it. Styling is subjective and doesn't cut it.
If you said 'gearing' you'd have a case. And no the 6-speed automatic is not one second quicker than the 5-speed. In an attempt to halt any bullshit "proof" you may attempt to display, I'll provide my own.
2010 MDX 0-60 in 6.6 seconds
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test
2007-2009 MDX 0-60 in 7.0 seconds
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests
Best times versus best times.
Audi claims the 7-speed is quicker (which it is) because of properties that extend far beyond gear count. For one thing it's not even an actual automatic transmission.
What would you say about, oh, Porsche? The 997 Turbo was quicker with its 5-speed automatic than with the 6-speed manual. There are actually other variables at bay but I think it's still fair game since you probably won't list them anyway.
Your assertion never stood. Maybe in your fairytale world it does, but then you should be on SSTFSXzine, not here.
Try again.
09-05-2010, 09:25 AM
#1516
אני עומד עם ישראל
Alright now that ssftsx has been proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he's full of bullshit. The evidence has been provided in the past, but not in the matter it was last night.
Can you do us all a favor and CEASE posting some wild ass claims that the TL is a mid-size luxo killer? You felt the exact OPPOSITE less then a year ago!
You make the the guys who actually bought the car and enjoy it look like fools when they themselves really don't mention that, definitely not to the extent you do.
Can you do us all a favor and CEASE posting some wild ass claims that the TL is a mid-size luxo killer? You felt the exact OPPOSITE less then a year ago!
You make the the guys who actually bought the car and enjoy it look like fools when they themselves really don't mention that, definitely not to the extent you do.
09-05-2010, 10:06 AM
#1517
Pro
Alright now that ssftsx has been proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he's full of bullshit. The evidence has been provided in the past, but not in the matter it was last night.
Can you do us all a favor and CEASE posting some wild ass claims that the TL is a mid-size luxo killer? You felt the exact OPPOSITE less then a year ago!
You make the the guys who actually bought the car and enjoy it look like fools when they themselves really don't mention that, definitely not to the extent you do.
Can you do us all a favor and CEASE posting some wild ass claims that the TL is a mid-size luxo killer? You felt the exact OPPOSITE less then a year ago!
You make the the guys who actually bought the car and enjoy it look like fools when they themselves really don't mention that, definitely not to the extent you do.
And now let's return to the thread topic lol!
09-05-2010, 11:15 AM
#1518
At least you admit it.
Exclusive features do not make the TL special, and the TL actually lacks a lot of features that cheaper cars have. I don't know what exclusive features you mean are. Advanced AWD doesn't cut it. Styling is subjective and doesn't cut it.
Exclusive features do not make the TL special, and the TL actually lacks a lot of features that cheaper cars have. I don't know what exclusive features you mean are. Advanced AWD doesn't cut it. Styling is subjective and doesn't cut it.
Gear ratio count won't work here. Those who use it display their obvious lack of knowledge on the topic at hand.
If you said 'gearing' you'd have a case. And no the 6-speed automatic is not one second quicker than the 5-speed. In an attempt to halt any bullshit "proof" you may attempt to display, I'll provide my own.
2010 MDX 0-60 in 6.6 seconds
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test
2007-2009 MDX 0-60 in 7.0 seconds
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests
Best times versus best times.
If you said 'gearing' you'd have a case. And no the 6-speed automatic is not one second quicker than the 5-speed. In an attempt to halt any bullshit "proof" you may attempt to display, I'll provide my own.
2010 MDX 0-60 in 6.6 seconds
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test
2007-2009 MDX 0-60 in 7.0 seconds
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests
Best times versus best times.
look at 0-100mph times. once the heavier 2010 MDX takes momentum.
This is not true. The playing field is leveled, to be sure, but it's nothing close to "almost zero". That's a laughable comment.
Audi claims the 7-speed is quicker (which it is) because of properties that extend far beyond gear count. For one thing it's not even an actual automatic transmission.
Audi claims the 7-speed is quicker (which it is) because of properties that extend far beyond gear count. For one thing it's not even an actual automatic transmission.
What would you say about, oh, Porsche? The 997 Turbo was quicker with its 5-speed automatic than with the 6-speed manual. There are actually other variables at bay but I think it's still fair game since you probably won't list them anyway.
There's no key word nonsense to speak of; it was wrong.
Your assertion never stood. Maybe in your fairytale world it does, but then you should be on SSTFSXzine, not here.
Try again.
Your assertion never stood. Maybe in your fairytale world it does, but then you should be on SSTFSXzine, not here.
Try again.
09-05-2010, 11:24 AM
#1519
אני עומד עם ישראל
STOP. Just fucking stop. Please just stop.
