pttl

I just don't see what is so radical about this car that would make it so expensive to produce.

phile

I see very little of these sharp bends and curves that would've made production impossible. You already see these on some production models already...Acura's kabuki-ish headlights, for example. Hell current BMW's have as much intricate folds and creases as that concept.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Agreed. The only thing that that has any real edges is the bumper, which is plastic anyway. The rest of the car doesnt seem very angular. More elegant then anything.

Legend2TL

Don't know. To me the number of radical concept cars have come down in number and radial ideas in the last couple decades. Sure there still are a few pretty far out there concepts that get shown at the shows, but the actual concept proto cars looks fairly close to me to the final production. The new Camaro is a example of that, GM did a decent job executing it. Another was the 3G TL concept, with the exception of the mirrors it looked pretty similar to the final 3G.

F23A4

Same deal with the 2G MDX concept (my avatar).

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Lately, most of Hondas concepts make it to production fairly unchanged (Si, CR-Z, Accord, etc).

phile

You beat me to it, I was going to use that very same example

phile

Plus Odyssey. We never did get a CR-V prototype, did we?

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

I dont think we did...

speedemon90

I got a question and feel like this is the place where I'm most likely to get an accurate answer. I got into a discussion with a friend about car sales because I stated that the US is not the main market for the german cars. My friend basically disagreed. I'm doubting myself now since he convinced me but to be sure I wanted real evidence. I tried googling but I couldnt really find something.

I guess you can't directly compare the US and say Germany or the UK since the population here is much greater. But say you took a couple countries in europe that let you get close to the 300 million population mark, say UK, germany, and if you need more france(no clue about those population numbers). Would the sales of those german cars be higher here in the US or in those countries in europe. I'm gonna guess Audi is a lot more in europe, but what about BMW or Mercedes?

biker

Maybe, but only because of the plethora of low end models available in Europe and them buying more domestics. I mean you walk out of Frankfurt airport and are greeted with a fleet of E200 cabs. You've got a sea of BMW 318s with cloth seats in Germany. The percentage of Germans buying German cars is much higher than Americans buying domestics. While the US is a big market for the Germans and they derive a lot of their sales from the US, the home market still rules. Do you think the 5 series would have those cup holders if the US was its main market?

alex2364

http://www.bmwgroup.com/bmwgroup_pro...aerz_2010.html

1st quarter 2010

BMW Group (worldwide): 315,614
United States: 55,051
Germany: 56,617
UK: 34,327
France: 14,462
Spain: 10,374

Legend2TL

China (34,179 / +106.1%)


Like Audi and MB, China is becoming a big market for BMW too

Colin

Concept cars are supposed to be fun, draw attention, and create publicity. GM never made this:



Ford never made this:

dom

And Honda never made this, right Colin

Colin

Don't understand?

speedemon90

Hmm so I was right in a way. But what the guy above you mentioned BMW does have a lot lower end models in Europe that they dont sell over here. Nonetheless I was still right! WOot haha, thanks for the hard evidence

phile

Dom's point is that you're picking concepts that obviously never materialized into production models. that first concept you posted from GM's archive is so out of this world, no one in his right mind would expect that to be a production.

But GM and Ford have made prototypes that materialized into production. I mean the Aztek went from prototype to production pretty much unchanged.




the point with the Kizashi isn't whether prototypes should be tame or wild.
In its prototype form, it did not seem like it would get watered down too much, but the production model proved otherwise. and there seemingly was no need for it - there was really nothing overly complex about its sheetmetal that would render production to be nearly impossible. If you take a current BMW 3 Series you would see some complex sheetmetal bending procedures, so it's not impossible to do these types of production designs.

Now, if you were to tell me Suzuki didn't want to invest the money into making dies and tools to produce the elegant form we saw in the concept, then that's a more reasonable excuse as Suzuki is a small company, and they can't be expected to do so.

dom

Thank you.

Belzebutt

Actually the Aztek was completely messed up from the concept car, that's why it failed.

TSX69

I ponder if Colin's confusion is bc the picture does not show up in Dom's post (@ least not for me). Only when I quoted Dom did I see that there was pic from TOV there ... otherwise the post is hard to understand w/ just the 1 sentence.

phile

LOL you know when i was posting that i was like "wow the concept actually looked decent" - I think the Aztek would've sold better had it not changed so much from the concept.

Belzebutt

So that's kind of the opposite of what you said in the previous post.

But yeah, I read the story of the Aztek and the bean counters changed so much stuff on the car that it got completely screwed. I also like that concept, it looks similar at first glance but if you look closely there are many differences that add up.

F23A4

The Aztec concept does look a little 'cleaner' than the production model. However, it was still fairly hideous in concept trim and should have gone the way of Firebird III pictured above.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

The concept Aztek's front end would look good on a sport SUV body, like a Pontiac take on the Infiniti FX for the poor folk.

PortlandRL

I'm a little late, sorry but here are Hyundai's August 2010 figures with last August's figures in parentheses. Red indicates a drop from last year's monthly figures and green indicates a rise. Most of the drops in sales are due to the end of 'Cash for Clunkers' which helped boost Hyundai sales last summer.

Accent - 3,844 (10,099)
Sonata - 21,399 (11,815)
Elantra - 15,181 (21,673)
Santa Fe - 5,687 (10,791)
Azera - 341 (336)
Tucson - 3,343 (2,531)
Veracruz - 919 (841)
Genesis 2,889 (2,316)
TOTAL LINE: 53,603 (60,402)

http://hyundainews.com/Corporate_New...es_Release.asp

krio

Acura news

Acura announced today sales for September 2010 reached 10,720 vehicles, an increase of 47.7% versus last year, making it the eighth consecutive month Acura posted double digit sales increases. Year-to-date sales* for Acura are up 26.3% totaling 96,388 units.

"Acura continues to be a smart choice in the luxury market," said Jeff Conrad, vice president of Acura sales. "With sales up nearly 50% for the month, the Acura line-up is really hitting a sweet spot with customers."

Acura's light trucks, up an impressive 92.1% for the month, led August sales with the top-selling MDX posting 4,077 units, up 83.6%, and RDX posting an 83.8% increase totaling 1,382 units. Total monthly car sales for Acura increased 16.9% with TL posting 2,514 units and TSX at 2,256, both up, 23.6% and 7.3% respectively.

* The daily selling rate is calculated with 25 selling days for September 2010 and September 2009. Year-to-date sales are calculated with 228 selling days for 2010 and 229 selling days for 2009.

krio

RL 240 units in 2010 vs 150 in 2009!! Great.
The MDX 4 077 vs 2 220...
ZDX? 250 units...

Legend2TL

http://www.hondanews.com/channels/co...sales-increase

krio

Super Jeff Conrad boasted that Acura is "the smart choice in the luxury market..."
Jeff: if Acura is smart, YOU are even smarter.

I think you are scratching your head and wondering, month after month, why in spite of all your faults, Acura is continuing somehow selling well...

Shift_Acura

Quality and reliability outweigh the ugliness of the beak at the end of the day i guess

LuvMyTSX

One RDX is mine, and I'm taking quite a liking to it after a week of ownership.

vybzkartel

^ Well congrats!

dom

Sorry.

docboy

Joykill

Hapa DC5

seems that way. Nothing wrong with that I guess. Would be nice to say these cars are reliable with great build quality, and easy on the eyes? I assume you can only choose two...

Shift_Acura

Hopefully this Beak phase passes soon. Or atleast they come up with a MUCH MUCH more toned down version of the beak. The TSX Sportwagon beak is a decent redesign of the grille IMO. But still we will never know how/why the beak designs got approved for production in the first place

SSFTSX

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-1...-tightens.html


The race to be the year’s top-selling luxury automobile brand in the U.S. narrowed as Daimler AG’s Mercedes-Benz and Bayerische Motoren Werke AG’s namesake line both gained ground on Toyota Motor Corp.’s Lexus.

“Lexus has been by far the luxury leader in this market and now Mercedes and BMW have closed that gap pretty rapidly,” Joe Barker, an industry analyst with IHS Automotive, a Lexington, Massachusetts-based researcher, said before the release. “The sales race will come down to the wire -- it will come down right to the month of December.”

Sales of Mercedes brand cars and sport-utility vehicles rose 17 percent to 19,862 as deliveries of its E-Class sedan continued to propel the brand, Stuttgart, Germany-based Daimler said in a statement. The results ended a three-month win streak for BMW and halved Lexus’ lead for the year.

“We’re going to continue in the same direction as we have for the first nine months,” Ernst Lieb, chief executive officer of Mercedes-Benz USA, said in an interview yesterday. “Will it be necessarily again another 22 percent up or so? Maybe not, but we definitely see a two-digit increase for the remainder of the year.”

BMW’s namesake brand’s deliveries rose 21 percent to 18,228 from last September, the Munich-based company said yesterday in a statement.

Lexus Declines

Lexus sales fell 6 percent last month to 16,948, as a 21 percent gain for the ES model was offset by a 27 percent decline in IS deliveries.

Toyota, working to recover from record recalls, has sold 162,438 luxury cars and SUVs in the first nine months of this year, a 9.2 increase over last year, the Toyota City, Japan- based company said in a statement. The result maintained a narrowing lead for the brand that has led the segment since 2000.

“It’s been a challenging year for the whole industry,” Brian Smith, U.S. vice president of Lexus brand sales, said in a conference call yesterday. “We feel real good about where we are this year. I don’t think we’re going to lose leadership this year, but time will tell.”

Mercedes sales rose 18 percent to 159,729 so far this year, while BMW deliveries are up 9.2 percent to 157,464. These results don’t include sales of Mercedes’ Sprinter vans and Smart cars or BMW’s Mini brand.

Tight Supply

BMW sales are being held back by low inventory of the X3 SUV until a new version reaches showrooms late this year, Jim O’Donnell, president of BMW’s North American unit, said in a Sept. 8 interview. The automaker is also still introducing models in its popular 5-Series line.

“Those two things will hold back our sales in that race. I think Lexus, in particular, will probably end the year No. 1,” he said. “We never thought we’d be as close to them.”

Even with those challenges, BMW’s monthly sales in June, July and August topped Mercedes and Lexus, according to the company’s stated results.

Luxury car buyers who waited for more improvement in the economy are returning, said Barker, who is based in Northville, Michigan.

“Now they feel a bit more secure as the stock market has stabilized and grown a little bit and as they start to rebuild their retirement funds,” Barker said. “They feel the worst is over for them and they are getting back into the luxury car market.”

Other Brands

Deliveries at General Motors Co.’s luxury division, Cadillac, gained 11 percent from last year to 12,620 as sales of the redesigned SRX sport-utility vehicle grew by 40 percent.

Ford Motor Co. sold 7,510 of its Lincoln luxury vehicles in September, a 26 percent increase from a year earlier, the company said in a statement. Lincoln was helped by a 76 percent increase in MKX sales.

Volvo, which Ford sold to China’s Zhejiang Geely Holding Group Co., reported a sales decline of 12 percent to 4,152.

Honda Motor Co.’s Acura sales rose 48 percent to 10,720 in September, the company said in a statement.

U.S. deliveries of Volkswagen AG’s Audi brand rose 13 percent to 8,151 vehicles. That topped Audi’s previous September sales record from 2007, the company said in a statement.

Porsche SE, which is merging with Volkswagen, reported a 25 percent sales increase to 1,971 vehicles.

Tata Motors Ltd.’s Jaguar posted a 10 percent gain in sales to 967 vehicles. The company’s Land Rover division sold 2,489 vehicles for the month, an 12 percent increase, the company said in a statement on its website.

To contact the reporter on this story: Tim Higgins in Southfield, Michigan at thiggins21@bloomberg.net

To contact the editor responsible for this story: Jamie Butters at jbutters@bloomberg.net

pttl

In the case of the TL, it isn't just the beak. The whole car needs to be redesigned. Look at a TSX...the beak is acceptable because of its proportion to the front end, plus, the car has cleaner lines with acceptable overall proportions. The TL is just aesthetically hideous. Hopefully the 5G will be better.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

The RDX, MDX and TSX pull it off (all things considered). I still prefer the pre-MMC RL but the new one isnt bad either. The TL just looks awkward from all angles.