fiatlux

I’m not so sure, 360hp is more than the S4 but below both the M340i and C43. All of those are 3.0L turbos; if Honda sticks with a 3.5L turbo one would expect it to best those numbers.

BEAR-AvHistory

Depends on how much boost they want to run. Could run more displacement to lower the boost.

CollinR4

Getting caught on just the horsepower number. 405 lb-ft of torque is greater than the 369 for the S4 and M340i or the 384 for the C43. That's the more important number in 90-95% of driving.

neuronbob

Cadillac isn’t saying where the 405 ft lb peaks. Hopefully, it’s low in the powerband, otherwise useless.

fiatlux

Do you honestly expect a Honda product to make that much torque? If there's two things Hondas are known for, it is: 1) reliability and 2) no torque.

CollinR4

That may have been true before turbos, don't believe that holds true presently. Given that the 2.0T RDX makes 280 at 1,600 RPM and even more in the Civic Type R. Compared to the Type S, add in an extra turbo and, at a minimum, 50% more displacement, that level of torque would not be far-fetched.

mrgold35

I would add 1) reliability 2) no torque 3) road noise

Only my 08 RDX with the addition of some extra aftermarket relash/parts was my first Acura with satisfying TQ. I would be perfectly fine with the TLX Type-S with 2.0T 306hp/295tq along with hybrid tech. You might see +400 ft/lbs of tq in this combo since the 2.0T makes max tq around 2000 rpms sooner compared to NA V-6s to match better with the max tq at 0 rpm electric motors for combined power. The weight and packaging savings 2.0T would offset the hybrid tech extra weight some. I never do 0-60 runs or trying to reach top speed. What I love about my 08 RDX is the 295-300 ft/lbs of TQ and the midrange punch it provides.

BEAR-AvHistory

Twin Turbo if I read his post right. Should have the full torque available below 2000rpm through 5000/5500rpm if its boost is typical. THe torque hits early & the curve is almost flat throught the RPM range.

My 440 has full torque from 1380–5400RPM, its one of the features of any turbo engine & why they are so quick for their displacement.

You can see that with the 330 @ 248BHP - 2.5 liter running heads up with the TLX @ 290BHP - 3.5 liter at close to the same weight.

BGR

TVL65

Someone I know at cura said 350 Hp and single Turbo.

WTF.Acura

😟😟😟😕😕😕🙁🙁🙁☹️☹️☹️ Say SIKE.
How fast is the RLX Sport Hybrid from 0-60?

jhb31

I always figured the over/under on HP was right around 340 to 350. The GM at my Acura dealer told me about a year or more back that he was told by corporate when he called back then the most likely release date was right around 11/2020 for the "S" as a 2021 model. That is probably pretty close to the way things look now. I am hoping it's not a hybrid as that seems like another reason to wait a year or two later to see what additional issues arise. The transmission behavior is my bigger worry. Would also like to see the type S with a shift lever and not the push button currently in the TLX. I used the slap shift in the type S a lot over the paddle shifters and it was well done back then. The TLX paddle shifter behavior is poorly done currently in the TLX with its own lag and parachute effect on downshifting which outside of sport plus mode is imo useless or maybe I am biased since the 3rd gen type S was implemented to perfection.

BGR

It's more than 350hp. At least 385hp at last check, but possibly more.

mrgold35

It varies depending with tester from 4.9 to 5.4 seconds to 0-60 mph for the 4400lbs sedan with all season tires. I think the RLX in Sport+ mode and using the paddles gives the best times. The 4.9 seconds to 0-60 mph seems to be the number for the +18 RLX hybrid. It is the mid-range tq of the electric motors that makes the RLX feel more powerful because there is so much instant TQ at lower rpms and less drivetrain loss of power because of the electric motors and 7DCT.

Getting into mid 4 second 0-60 times or lower seems to take all or a combo of: +350hp/350tq with a pretty good power-to-weight ratio, awd and/or rwd, launch control software, and electric and/or force induction sometimes.

BEAR-AvHistory

One more time . Don't be obsessing over the ADVERTISED horsepower number. Most of them are BS developed by the marketing department not engineering. Can be a number of reasons for this. Precieved image, statutaory imposed restrictions, insurance preimum hits & so on. The real numbers are where the rubber meets the road. This is why an obviously under rated 382BHP 2020 BMW 340 punches way above it rated number given its listed weight of 3818 lbs. There is no way known to physical science that a 3818 lbs car can run 12.3 @ 114mph quarter miles with only 382BHP.

C&D 2020 BMW M340 Road Test

Rollout, 1 ft: 0.3 sec
60 mph: 3.8 sec
100 mph: 9.4 sec
150 mph: 24.6 sec
Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 4.7 sec
Top gear, 30–50 mph: 2.4 sec
Top gear, 50–70 mph: 2.9 sec
¼-mile: 12.3 sec @ 114 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 156 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 156 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.96 g

C/D FUEL ECONOMY
Observed: 23 mpg

EPA FUEL ECONOMY
Combined/city/highway: 25/22/30 mpg

BTW this is the RWD car the AWD has always been quicker in the BMW 3/4 series line up.

TVL65

It better be quick, I recently got blown away by a 2017 Kia Turbo in my 07' Type S, quite embarrassing

BEAR-AvHistory

They were quick in their day but their day was 12/13 years ago. Time marches on, its just too bad that it will take until 2020/2021 for Acura to catch up. Think with a 3.5 V6 TT-DOHC engine they should do well. Engine will be 500CC larger the BMW & a full liter larger then some AUDI & smaller BMW's.. You could go on a Kia hunt & get payback.

One thing I have not seen here with surprised me somewhat is no mention of Burger Motorsports manufacturers of the JB4 system. Don't think they will pass on a JB4 version for the TLX if its selling well. Easy 75/100WHP boost, no pun intended, to whatever power level come out ot the dealers store.

fiatlux

The probably I have is that by the time Honda comes out with a new turbo V6 to compete with their competitors current offerings, the other competitors will soon be releasing even hotter versions of their current engines. It might be as fast for a year or two, but then end up becoming outclassed again.

Mak P

Do you know how to drive? 😁

BEAR-AvHistory

Time marches on & cars get better such is life,

I got my first brand new car in 1962 Chevy Impala Super Sport 409/409 4MT Was a very quick car back the which could out run Corvettes. -60 mph: 6.3 sec, quarter mile: 14.9 sec @ 98 mph. My second new car 1966 Pontiac GTO Ram Air Tri-Power 4MT was a ringer with a Royal Bobcat kit. Did 0–60 @ 5.8 seconds, quarter mile: 14.5 seconds @ 103 miles per hour Today a TLX could on any given day beat them.

Think how far we have come.

jhb31

Did Acura release minimum powertrain specs already? I haven't watched that closely lately.

BGR

No..insider.

dmski

Acura confirmed significant horse power gains for the Type S at launch of the prototype during an interview posted on Acura's Instagram. It's going to be close to or at 400.

jhb31

Will believe that when it happens. "Significant" leaves a lot to interpretation. The last type S was 28 more HP. You are talking about 110 more. The Audi S5 turbo is about 350 hp so Acura going from 290 to 400 or seems kinda unlikely. A jump to even 350 would be a major boost from the sub 300 it is now. The TLX currently feels like a slow 290 hp car due to the trans pairing so a trans upgrade will do a lot for the performance feel of the car. With the current trans being used it would take 350 hp to get it to feel more like a 300 hp car should feel. Anyway,I hope the pricing doesn't get too far above the higher trim level TLX sticker wise.

dmski

We all know that Germans under rate the horse power numbers so if this Type S has officially only 350hp be prepared to get a major spanking from S5 or 340. It would actually make the Type S pointless, to be honeet, unless, they aim to compete with Camry's or Maxima's

Mak P

The Infiniti has 400 HP. They need to make sure they're top dog in their own home first

fiatlux

That means it just needs to be higher than the 360hp Cadillac CT5-V, given that Acura is an American car brand...

csmeance

we can all make up numbers that we would love to have, but at the end of the day the "bean counters" change goals to better suit the car for the market IE insurance pricing, lease rates, etc. Lets just hope it can do 0-60 in the sub 5 second range. Honda/Acura has been stuck at 5.6s area for 0-60 for the sedans with V6 and 6.8s range for the 4cyls.

Tony Pac

I don’t disagree with you. But let me ask you a few questions:
Why is the Q50 isn’t selling? It sold less than TLX last month.
Infiniti priced the 400HP amazingly and it should sell like hot cakes.
its a RWD, yet no one is thinking to get one.

the moral of the story is even if TLX comes with 450HP it won’t be an insane success. So I believe it’s better to stick to its core, produce a nice sports car with 350-370HP at a reasonable price and compete with C43 or S4. Case closed! Infiniti did the test for acura that Hp war won’t take them anywhere.

dmski

Infiniti has a lot if issues as well. Dated interior and a horrible infotainment system. They brought the 400hp versions during their refresh cycle. By that time the sales already peaked and were trending down.

Tony Pac

fair enough! All your points are valid. But still 400 HP at that price point is a bargain. Infiniti is struggling to survive. The group of people wanting 400HP is very limited. Acura knows this for a while. But they need to bring a decent car with decent HP, there is no doubt in that.

Terdbath

3 liter single turbo from Honda = 350 crank HP max. I hope I'm wrong but agree with comments above that Honda usually plays it safe.

internalaudit

I hope the 2nd gen TLX gets fully electrified in a few years.

I doubt I will be buying another ICEV after two Honda's and one RAV4H.

someguy11

After this gaga post, I was surprised to see you jump the TLX ship for an Accord Sport. Why? What's up with that? Is the Accord just tiding you over? What are some differences/improvements that you notice? I still kick myself for choosing 1G TLX over 10G Accord.

neuronbob

Two words: Manual. Transmission. It changes the Accord to a very fun car. I didn't think I'd be that impressed. However, I came away impressed with the value and performance for the (little) money spent. The 2.0 turbo engine is pixie magic, particularly given this Accord weighs only 3300 pounds. I test drove lots of cars before choosing the Accord, including the Stinger GT.

The Accord (though not my Sport 2.0) has near-feature parity with the TLX with a few things missing that I can live without (tilt side mirrors, power pass seat, memory seats--I'm the only driver), or can buy separately (Homelink, parking sensors). The only thing I will actually miss is SH-AWD.

I was able to scratch my new car itch at a very low price, for once. It's the cheapest car in my little fleet.

It also tides me over until the growing pains for the upcoming Type-S are over.

Given how well Honda did the 10G Accord, the 2G TLX should be top shelf and has a great future.

holografique

this!

BEAR-AvHistory

Remember about BHP ratings, THEY ARE FAKE marketing department numbers.

The 400BHP Infinity RED @ 0- 60 4.5 - 1/4 13.0 @ 112 mph struggles against The 320BHP BMW 440 @ 0-60 4.4 - 1/4 12.9 sec @ 109 mph. The 365 hp Kia Stinger @ 0-60 4.4 - 1/4 12.9 sec @ 111 mph.

Against the new generation "G" 2020 BMW 382BHP M340 @ 0-60 3.8 - 1/4 12.3 sec @ 114 mph it gets swamped. This is just the first marker being laid down by the coming generations of mid sized sports sedans.

Its the actual performance numbers that count. The performance numbers are all from C&D instrumented road tests so they should be relatively consistent against each other. The magazine numbers will make or break the car for performance enthusiasts not "Precision Crafted Performance." or "The Most Powerful TL Yet".

BTW: Just a thought. If you want to beat these cars get ready to spend more money for a TLX than any sold in the past. Old Speed shop joke. Customer "I want my car to go fast" Counter man "How much money do you have, son?".

fiatlux

Actually, the numbers you presented are consistent with the reported HP numbers. Trap speed is more correlated to HP and weight than the quarter time, which is dependent on traction, launch, shifts, etc. 112mph for 400bhp, 111 mph for 365bhp, 109mph for 320bhp sounds about right. The M340 is definitely grossly underrated which is why the 114mph trap speed isn't that surprising.

someguy11

This is what I've been trying to tell these dreamers. I briefly went on a hunt for other 400hp sedans and found this C&D article from 2017. Some aren't sedans. Those that are in 2017 pricing (so add inflation):
XTS V - $65k
M3/M4 - $65k
Q70 - $64k
K900 (I didn't know they still made these) - $62k
CTS V - $61k
ATS V - $61k
Continental (no one is driving this for speed/performance) - $60k
G80 (wow, sharp looking car) - $55k
Q56/Q60 Red Sport - $49k
SS (no longer made, really too bad) - $48k
MKZ (not a sports car) - $43k
Charger Hellcat - currently $70k

Power and performance are proportional to price. If Acura can't sell a luxurious, loaded 377hp RLX SH-AWD sport hybrid that does 0-60 in 4.9sec for $62k, what makes anyone think they will sell a less luxurious, slightly faster, smaller TLX Type S for slightly less?

fiatlux

Fortunately, the Type-S doesn't compete with any of those cars other than the Q50 Red Sport. The Type-S has never competed with the M/AMG/RS/V/F cars. In today's world, it would be competing against the M-Lite/AMG-Lite/Audi S/Caddy V-Sport/Lexus F-Sport models.

Here's the kicker, though: I wouldn't be surprised to see BMW and Merc both hit 400 advertised horsepowers within the next few years for their mid-trim models. The reason the M340i is underrated at 382hp right now is because the current M4 "only" makes 425. The upcoming M3/M4 is going to be packing between 480-510hp, which will give the M340i room to be marketed with 400hp (maybe even get renamed as the M350i or something). Rumor also has it that Mercedes will be bumping their C63 to 540+hp next year, which will make room to replace the C43 with the C53 that should make around 429hp as it does in the E53 that similarly replaced the E43. If Acura comes out with a Type-S with around 370-380hp, they'll be class competitive today, but will quickly become outclassed by the upcoming models from its competitors. Hell, by the time this car actually hits the showroom floor I wouldn't be surprised if BMW/Merc will have already beat them to the punch. I suspect that story will sound familiar to anyone who's been around Acura for the past decade.