fiatlux

Perhaps his daily driver is a Bentley . I guess in comparison an Accord would be a penalty box.

DubPK

It comes up so often because it's a legitimate problem, it's not a Honda/Acura exclusive problem either by any means but the fact is a decked out Accord is 98% of what a TLX is so the TLX needs to stand out in POSITIVE ways but instead its a series of compromises and negatives that seem to be being made and in the case of the TLX-S supposedly in the name of performance but it just barely out squeaks its sister car that is supposedly an econo box so yeah.. it comes up because it's a problem.

4G-Lover

Calling the Accord an econobox is beyond silly.....the Touring 2.0T is way more than anybody realistically need, very comfortable seats, quiet, a rocketship (on pure engine power alone it should be able to hit 160+ mph). It is way more impressive in its segment than the TLX is in its own.

Honda430

The Accord is a nice ride, but a discerning eye could go over the car and see where costs were cut. Many of us have moved on from Honda as many of you have moved on from Acura. There’s simply no going back no matter how fast the Accord is from 0-60.

leomio2.0

I'd be more willing to buy a Honda product over another Acura in the future after my experience with my RDX. But I need contacts to see properly, so I guess that's my problem ...

F23A4

That’s pretty much how I feel about the Camry I drive a year or so ago. That said, both lead the family sedan segment for good reason.

i did consider the Accord Touring prior to going with the A-Spec. Off the cuff (and as a former 9G owner), I've never been able to move beyond its exterior styling. While it’s a great package, it’s simply not easy on my eyes.

someguy11

I know you and I have butted heads before, but I completely agree with you. The 10G Accord is a love it or hate it. I happen to love it, but I also acknowledge it's polarizing whenever I look at it, as in I can easily see the exterior as a dealbreaker for some. It sort of resembles a rhinoceros. The sunken headlights are strange. Yet I love it. Meanwhile, both the 1G MMR and 2G TLX are gorgeous machines from any direction, especially with Aspec. 100% better in the aesthetics department compared to the Accord. If I hated the 10G Accord body, the 2G TLX Aspec would be an easy "yes" decision. Inside, they're more similar than different.

Umm, no. I'm completely satisfied going from my 1G TLX SHAWD Advance to my 10G Accord Touring. Zero sacrifice on build quality, materials or amenities. In fact, the Accord is superior in almost every single way. And it has absolutely nothing to do with speed.

Yeah, count me in for this. Almost to any extent, I would prefer a Honda product that doesn't have an Acura badge after my 1G TLX debacle. The ONLY exception would be if I were looking for a toy some day, I would consider a 1G NSX. Otherwise I'd be looking for an S2000.

Honda430

This might surprise you, but I agree with you here. The 10G dash and front door panels look better than the equivalent in the TLX-1. I’ve not taken a close look at the rear door panels which is typically where cost cutting is obvious so I can’t comment on that section of the car. One of the reasons I got rid of my TLX-1, other than the transmission, was the cheap block of plastic that housed the dual screen setup. However, the TLX-1 when introduced actually compared to the 9G Accord that just like the TLX-1 was developed during Honda’s cheap-out period that produced the 2012 Civic and the dash and door panels were incredibly cheap looking at least to my eyes. The current TLX is the update that the 10G Accord was to the 9G and it blows the 10G out of the water. No comparison.

DubPK

Skipping the hyperbole what is your reasoning for saying there is no comparison? When I compare interiors it's hard to not give the edge to the Accord, it's a little more boring appearing but it brings more features and functionality than the TLX, those missing features / functionality just aren't made up for with a leather wrapped deash - although the stereo is admittedly a huge improvement in the TLX Tech+. Styling is subjective but I really hate the 10g Accord exteriors so I'd give that to the TLX in a heartbeat.

Honda430

The TLX interior is simply a class above. Much more upscale. I suggest you spend some time in an Aspec or Advance and judge for yourself.

DubPK

I have and I agree it's better but not amazingly so. In many ways I like the Accord better, touch screen, wireless apple/android, heated bench with rear charge ports, etc. Not sure a leather wrapped dash and power folding mirrors completely make up for the omissions and questionable choices but I do generally like the interior so I don't want to call it flat out bad it's just the difference to me isn't no comparison it's really good vs slightly better than really good but compromised in some questionable ways.

Honda430

While wireless Apple CarPlay would be welcome I’m alright with the wired version. I’m no fan of touch screens. To me sticking a tablet on the edge of the dash is a colossal eyesore. Once you set the car up the infotainment system is pretty easy to use. No need to go through menus to control the HVAC because there are physical controls for all those functions. I’m probably a little biased, but I think the TLX layout looks more than slightly better. Also I prefer traditional gauges and we need not even talk about the seats, that 17 speaker ELS system, or god forbid the iconic lighting.

DubPK

Touch screens for the infotainment interface (not climate controls) isn't really a debate anymore, we are in a new age where people are going to hop in their car and expect their smartphones to wirelessly connect and come up on the screen. Lacking both on a brand new car in 2021 in the luxury segment Acura is playing in is, in my opinion, not acceptable. I don't think it's a car deal breaker but it's a mistake the other manufacturers learned from 5 years ago. The Accord does this right even so it's a head scratcher the Acura does not, otherwise I generally agree the Acura interior is obviously a little bit nicer but I was just saying the gap between them isn't what it used to be.

Honda430

My Mac doesn’t have a touchscreen and I’m good with that. I really don’t want or need a touchscreen in my car. I will admit though that compared to previous Accords the 10G interior is more upscale; however, I think Acura actually created more distance over the Accord from the standpoint of the interior with the TLX-2.

DubPK

Your personal preferences aside consumers as a whole have spoken that they want touchscreens, your Mac was designed for a trackpad and precise inputs. Carplay was designed with big fat buttons to be quickly tapped for minimal distraction while driving, swiping around with a trackpad in carplay is awful... I'd seriously question the honesty of anyone saying they prefer the touchpad in carplay but to each their own.. Acura will learn from it like the others did and a touch screen will be coming possibly as soon as mid cycle refreshes.

Honda430

You can believe me. I go out of my way not to make shit up. I’m kinda odd honest like that.

ESHBG

Well it looks like this may still be on so maybe they are killing the 6 to bring it back as something else entirely?

Future Cars: 2023 Mazda 6 Gets Rear-Drive Platform, Aims for BMW and Mercedes

Mazda's working on a sedan that aims to take on the 3 Series and C-Class.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2023-mazda-6-future-cars/amp/

Odd move. Mazda makes nice cars but to try to head into upmarket territory, not sure that will work out.

ELIN

If Mazda is able to steal some business upmarket from even low-hanging fruit like Acura and half-assed implementations like Genesis, I think it's completely worthwhile.

I'd probably be a Genesis owner if their sales/service locations were separate from Hyundai.

one4all

So what? The Accord 2.0T is not much slower than a lot of cars costing significantly more, including high-$$$ sedans and actual sports cars (that are 100% about performance) like the Supra 2.0. The m340i is also way faster than a lot of cars costing much more. Have those cars been invalidated?

No one is bragging about the Type-S beating the Accord. The only people who have brought up the Accord 2.0T are the ones who trash the TLX. It's a stupid comparison to make. The Accord is an excellent FWD family car that happens to have class-beating acceleration. The TLX is a significantly larger AWD luxury sports sedan.

I swear people must be at the drag strip every weekend with the obsession over 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. And none of these track warriors talk about where the TLX matches or beats the competition, such as the skidpad figures, standard features, ownership costs, SH-AWD, styling, MSRP, etc. Just the fact that the TLX handles as well as it does for such a large heavy car to me is amazing. I

It's not like acceleration doesn't matter, but it's not everything. For me a sub 5-second time for the 4,200 lb Type-S would be not great but "sufficient". And it does that (as low as 4.6-4.7 in some tests), despite a lot of naysayers predicting it would be never hit 60 in under 5. There's room to improve for sure, but that hardly makes the car a dud.

BEAR-AvHistory

The SO WHAT is about the lack of consistency in your whines......remember this one?

""PRICE AS TESTED ................................................. PRICE AS TESTED
$67,070 (base price: $54,995) .................................. $54,625 (base price: $53,325)

And this is the reason people will buy the Type-S. Yeah if the m340i was the same price I would certainly buy it over the Type-S too, but it's not. At the base price m340i you probably get a vehicle less equipped than a base TLX.""


So we have a tarted up M340 that most will not buy to $67,070 - $54,625 for the S making the S 12,445 cheaper not including any ADM's the dealer adds on.

Now to your SO WHAT post

$55k Type S VS $32k Accord 2.0T. You seem to be OK out spending by $23,000 to get a Type-S vs a Accord 2.0T which is only barely out performed by the Type S but on the other hand has more features than the Type S.

Since you seem to have an issue with the M340 price please explain where the Type-S $55,000 VS my choice M340 $59,000 matches or beats the competition.

BTW If you view the S & M340 as competitors you are in a small group lead by the Acura PR department. BMW 330 yeah, I can believe that but really don't believe many M340 buyers seriously conceded the TLX-S because of its lack of competitiveness in over all performance. If not just brand recognition

The only thing I like about the 330 is they sell enough of them to keep the EPA off BMW's case when they build the ones I like. God bless badge buyers.

Honda430

Just a note, that 2.0 Accord Sport with the quality paint actually retails for $33.5K and, other than the wheels, has features on par with the TLX base model. I think the one you wanted to reference is the Touring that retails for $38.3K. Both are FWD.

BEAR-AvHistory

Just repeating what one4all SO WHAT post was replying to, did not create the number.

""But strictly speaking in a race, yeah, the $55k Type S barely beats a $32k Accord 2.0T.
C/D TEST RESULTS - TLX TYPE S ............... C/D TEST RESULTS - ACCORD 2.0T SPORT
60 mph: 4.9 sec ........................................... 60 mph: 5.4 sec
1/4-Mile: 13.6 sec @ 103 mph ....................... 1/4 mile: 14.0 sec @ 101 mph""

So apparently one4all is prepared to pay & is OK with buying a $55,000 Type-S VS a mispriced? $32,000 Accord 2.0T. In other words in his frame of reference spending extra $23,000 if its an Acura over a Honda is better than spending an extra $5,000 to get an M340 over a TLX-S.

Thanks for the help on the numbers. At $32K I thought it was the top of the line Honda, my bad. Spend $23,000 extra VS 5,000 extra is the key. Just demonstrates when it comes to Honda/Acura VS BMW some people go off the deep end .

ESHBG

Wouldn't you have the same issue, though, as a Mazda dealership will still be just that?

Honda430

To have a valid comparison you probably should add the $5k difference between the BMW and the Type S to the $20K difference between the Type S and the Accord 2.0. The question then becomes are you willing to spend $25K more to buy the BMW or $20K more to buy the Type S. To be honest though no one considering spending +$50K for a sedan is even going to consider how it compares to an Accord.

one4all

What? Both of those posts are 100% consistent. The TLS-S does not compete with the Accord 2.0T. Absolutely no one is going to cross shop a practical, fuel efficient, FWD family car with a performance-oriented, AWD luxury sedan like the Type-S.

If we're going to play the irrelevant comparisons game, we can compare the Type-S to the 530i xdrive:

Acura TLX Type-S
PRICE
Base/As Tested: $53,325/$54,625

DIMENSIONS
Wheelbase: 113.0 in
Length: 194.6 in
Width: 75.2 in
Height: 56.4 in
Passenger Volume: 93 ft3
Trunk Volume: 14 ft3
Curb Weight: 4201 lb

C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 4.9 sec
100 mph: 12.6 sec
1/4-Mile: 13.6 sec @ 103 mph
130 mph: 24.2 sec
Results above omit 1-ft rollout of 0.3 sec.
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 5.5 sec
Top Gear, 30–50 mph: 3.3 sec
Top Gear, 50–70 mph: 4.5 sec
Top Speed (C/D est): 155 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 165 ft
Braking, 100–0 mph: 359 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad: 0.96 g

BMW 530i xdrive
PRICE AS TESTED
$72,235 (base price: $54,495)

DIMENSIONS
Wheelbase: 117.1 in
Length: 194.6 in
Width: 73.5 in
Height: 58.2 in
Passenger volume: 99 ft3
Trunk volume: 19 ft3
Curb weight: 4013 lb

C/D TEST RESULTS
Zero to 60 mph: 6.1 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 15.6 sec
Zero to 120 mph: 24.1 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 6.9 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 3.6 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 4.5 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.6 sec @ 97 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 128 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 180 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.91 g

Anyway, the TLX-S clearly competes with the m340i. I don't know what Acura's PR says and couldn't care less. I wasn't even the one who posted the specs comparison, so my position isn't unique. Is the BMW a better performing car? Clearly, and to most people that justifies the higher $. But performance gaps aren't exactly unusual among competing cars, especially when there's a price gap as well. The BMW smokes the G70 3.3 as well, but it's still a competitor.

As for the 330i, I would say it competes with the TLX Advance/A-Spec.

I'm really not even trying to argue with you. You seem more objective and nuanced than some of the other commenters here...

BEAR-AvHistory

These things always end badly because of the way they sound.

My personal belief is these are the demographic break downs shopping for the cars we all love to fight over.

Acura TLX, Genesis G70, BMW 330, Audi A4 the first demographic grouping.

The Audi S4, M340, MB C43AMG is another demographic grouping

The Audi RS, BMW M3/4 & MB AMG are a third demographic grouping

There will be crossover buying (not saying shopping) among the groups but the main bulk of the buyers will fall into these categories.

You brought up the 5 series. That single series crosses a number of demographic groups. Goes from people looking for an 4cylinder upscale family car with more room than a 3 all the to the M5 2.8 sec X 10.9 sec @ 130 mph road going Panzer with a 6 figure price. Expect its the only series with the product price spread in the BMW total line up.

In other words looking a the 5 series you need to look at it as a standalone car company that starts with a sedate family car to a fangs out road killer. BMW's total marketing strategy is to build a vertical car company around each series. Get a young got hooked with an M235 & have him climb the ladder as his career advances.

Bailing out need to work on the Cobra.

pyrodan007

Realistically speaking, people looking at the TLX are no longer downgrading (45k+ only). So that 10-20k extra to jump up the performance ladder over a 4 year lease/loan period is not as financially demanding as people make it appear (remove daily coffee from Starbucks and you can easily help pay for one). If you remove the price factor, why should people get the Type-S? All the other models when removing price have a pretty good selling factor.

S4/5: Tech/Interior
C43 AMG: Exhaust, maybe interior (minus cracking noise)
M340i: Engine
G70: Handling
Type-S: ... Exterior (questionable since some here find the S4 ugly) ?

Honda430

It really comes down to the same basic logic that goes into the decision for someone like yourself deciding to buy an S5. That buyer wants to purchase a Type S. Why in the world you believe you should press your preferences on other people or belittle someone for making that decision at best simply comes across as an attempt to buy clout. Believe it or not some folks choose not to inhabit that plane of existence.

ELIN

No. Unlike Genesis, Mazda will probably not create a premium branch, just create premium cars to steal market share. They won't make the same mistake of Hyundai creating Genesis but without standalone dealerships/service centers.

Just look at what KIA is doing with the Telluride and Hyundai is doing with the Palisade. The top trims of these cars are being mentioned in the same breath as the MDX!

pyrodan007

Again, remove price. What does the Type-S mean to the market? No space, speed, or fuel economy advantage. You get the Acura owners and strict budget buyers. But you do not get market penetration from prestige or value advantage.

Regarding my S5 SB, I really do need the space. All the other models vanish. And the new M440i is ugly.

Honda430

The S5 is a good looking vehicle.

djhtsx

iTrader: (2)

I still don’t think the Acura loses by much if you removed the price. The margin is so small in this segment. I think the biggest would be the fuel economy but again we are still talking about a small margin. I wasn’t getting the greatest mpg as advertise by Audi when I drive the s5 but perhaps it was because of my heavy foot. They are both fast… I don’t think you would be missing much in the speed department. Yes, the Audi is fast but outside of pull off hard at red lights that’s the only time you will feel a small difference. At top end speeds around like 60ish, the power felt the same.

edit: and this is coming from someone who was a signature away from purchasing a s5 prestige

pyrodan007

I really hope Acura does a major refresh soon to bring in elements from the 2022 MDX. If they do and tweak the engine's software, I really think both versions (non/sport) will disturb the market. Just like when the 2015 TLX came out, it had a lot of features which were not present/standard back then. Provided they don't majorly increase price again.

djhtsx

iTrader: (2)

I second this… Acura is headed in the right direct and has a great platform to build from. They are really just a few tweaks away to make this the best in class vehicle… well until the next gen Benz and Audi come out then Acura will be far behind again.

ESHBG

Ah okay I see what you are saying now and I thought that you were just talking about the overall dealership experience.

leomio2.0

I'm partial to white, but red is really growing on me.

technocrat

400 WHP in a FWD car Is this a burnout car?

BEAR-AvHistory

Cars & Coffee with street tires & full slicks at the drags. Cars that can easily over power their tires are very tricky on the street, do not ask me how I know.

jjsC5

Seven mph difference in quarter mile trap speed is HUGE. And of all performance metrics, it is the best indicator of how fast a car is in real world driving.

BEAR-AvHistory

Plus the faster you are going the harder it is to add more speed.