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Yet the S4 configured at Type S equipment level is either $65,200 or $62,000 US dollars. That’s a lot of extra money just to go a little faster. Even if you get a 4% discount you’re still talking about $62.5k or $59.5. To say the least that’s a quite a bit more than anyone should be willing to spend on that unattractive vehicle.
Typically missing the point like many Acura fans. These other car's S4, M340, C43AMG are what Acura marketing is trying to convince you that the TLX is. Yes the German cars cost more but they are recognized as luxuries & worth more to the buyer than the TLX. The Acura TLX is still in the "what is an Acura?" stage & can't command the pricing a MB etc can.
The market says things are worth what people will pay for them. People will pay $63,000 whatever for a S4 but will not pay $55,000 for a TLX.
I’m not paying $40k for S4 let alone $65k. A Civic of all things has more presence. I’m not going to fault you if you choose to so. It’s your cash.
But you seem to be supporting $53 up to $68 or so for a TLX-S. Really? Follow your star & buy an Honda Acord Sport & save a few more bucks + get a more fully equipped car as a bonus.
Hey thats you, but many guys who have moved on from TL,TLX will & did buy Audi. Replacement traffic seems heavy in the direction from Acura to MB, BMW & Audi not the other way around. A lot also depends on how much you have to sped on a car what your world view is. My oldest daughter will most likely drop near $100K on her M4C convertible, not a big deal to her because that is what she wants to replace her current M4. Acura is not on her radar screen. Such is life & such is why cars can cost over $1,000,000.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 07-12-2021 at 06:14 PM.
Think I said low to mid 12's, regardless the Type-S is not even in the game.
C43 & S4 are already in the 12's & at the border of high 3 to 60mph. Next shot should carry the into the 3's & drop the benchmark M340 to 3.5. With the new M4 making 473 horsepower and 406 lb-ft of torque 6MT & 503 horsepower and 479 lb-ft, 8ZF it opens the line up to increase the M340 power like they did everytime the M3/4 moved up in power. The B58 was 335BHP & went to 382BHP after the M3/4 power was increased
M340 sets the benchmark the other Germans as they always have will follow. . Don't consider the G70 a sports sedan but it still out runs the Type-S which I also don't consider a sports sedan. G70 runs the quarter quicker & is going faster.
So which way are the current numbers going & who is out of step?
You really need to spend some time in a G70 3.3 with Sport package if you don’t consider it a sport sedan. Just please don’t bring race tracks into the discussion. Not that I think it would do badly on one, but I’m sick of cars being tested at VIR, the Ring etc. I feel pretty certain you would rethink your comment.
I've heard people call Audis boring looking, which to be fair they are more subdued, but ugly? Someone needs their eyes checked if they think this is ugly. Sounds like something a 16 year old would say about cars they can't afford to make themselves feel better.
Typically missing the point like many Acura fans. These other car's S4, M340, C43AMG are what Acura marketing is trying to convince you that the TLX is. Yes the German cars cost more but they are recognized as luxuries & worth more to the buyer than the TLX. The Acura TLX is still in the "what is an Acura?" stage & can't command the pricing a MB etc can.
The market says things are worth what people will pay for them. People will pay $63,000 whatever for a S4 but will not pay $55,000 for a TLX.
Bear, you’re pushing a point that’s irrelevant to me. Some one willing to pay $65k for an S4 is the same as another person willing to pay $10k ADM for a Type S. Yes, the M340i is the best of the bunch, but it’s a freaking $65k to $70k automobile and availability is even more limited than the Type S currently is. Why you guys believe everyone is willing to make a $65k commitment on a automobile is beyond me. Oh, just go spend another $15k and enjoy yourself. Sheesh.
Love you all, but you guys campaigning for others to spend $55k + on a vehicle probably should take your act to somewhere else. After all this is Acurazine. The vast majority of folks interested in buying Acura have no intention of spending $55k plus on a vehicle. If y’all got it you should thank god for your good fortune and leave the rest of us alone. I’ve owned Acuras for over twenty years. If I moved up there’s no way I would be hanging around here complaining about the Acura product. My ego simply doesn’t need that type of support.
Bear, you’re pushing a point that’s irrelevant to me. Some one willing to pay $65k for an S4 is the same as another person willing to pay $10k ADM for a Type S. Yes, the M340i is the best of the bunch, but it’s a freaking $65k to $70k automobile and availability is even more limited than the Type S currently is. Why you guys believe everyone is willing to make a $65k commitment on a automobile is beyond me. Oh, just go spend another $15k and enjoy yourself. Sheesh.
just an FYI my M340 was 59k and my payments are far less than a Type S .
Bear, you’re pushing a point that’s irrelevant to me. Some one willing to pay $65k for an S4 is the same as another person willing to pay $10k ADM for a Type S. Yes, the M340i is the best of the bunch, but it’s a freaking $65k to $70k automobile and availability is even more limited than the Type S currently is. Why you guys believe everyone is willing to make a $65k commitment on a automobile is beyond me. Oh, just go spend another $15k and enjoy yourself. Sheesh.
The S4 msrp is $49,900 and its only option is a convenience package - which runs $1,800 - gets you well equipped. The M340i msrp is $55,695, but I didn't take any time to price out with options. So I'm not sure where you're getting your $65k+. By the way, if BMW out priced everyone, they wouldn't sell any M3/M340i (narrator: they sell plenty).
I think it's hard to argue that spending $52,300 + ADM on a Type S is the same as spending $65k on an S4. I think the rest of us would argue that spending less on a Type S would be a decent choice, but spending the same amount (OR MORE!) for a Type S versus an S4 or M340i is neither a good value nor smart decision when you can get a faster, arguably better in every performance metric, and more prestigious automobile. That someone tooling around town in the Type S is going to look foolish to anyone who knows cars in light of all the review and test data coming out.
There is another thread where someone just posted that C&D ran 0-60 in 4.9sec with the Type S that will publish in the upcoming edition. Ouch - and I mean mega ouch - when its benchmark for competition was the S4 that runs 4.2sec... and the Accord runs 5.5sec. Those numbers + ADM = Precision Crafted Badging.
The S4 msrp is $49,900 and its only option is a convenience package - which runs $1,800 - gets you well equipped. The M340i msrp is $55,695, but I didn't take any time to price out with options. So I'm not sure where you're getting your $65k+. By the way, if BMW out priced everyone, they wouldn't sell any M3/M340i (narrator: they sell plenty).
I think it's hard to argue that spending $52,300 + ADM on a Type S is the same as spending $65k on an S4. I think the rest of us would argue that spending less on a Type S would be a decent choice, but spending the same amount (OR MORE!) for a Type S versus an S4 or M340i is neither a good value nor smart decision when you can get a faster, arguably better in every performance metric, and more prestigious automobile. That someone tooling around town in the Type S is going to look foolish to anyone who knows cars in light of all the review and test data coming out.
There is another thread where someone just posted that C&D ran 0-60 in 4.9sec with the Type S that will publish in the upcoming edition. Ouch - and I mean mega ouch - when its benchmark for competition was the S4 that runs 4.2sec... and the Accord runs 5.5sec. Those numbers + ADM = Precision Crafted Badging.
I suggest you go to Cargurus and see where both new S4s and M340is are priced at. Why would some stranger laugh at you because your car only does a 4.9 second 60 as opposed to a 4.2 second 60? Do you know any real people or do you spend your time only with motor heads?
I suggest you go to Cargurus and see where both new S4s and M340is are priced at. Why would some stranger laugh at you because your car only does a 4.9 second 60 as opposed to a 4.2 second 60? Do you know any real people or do you spend your time only with motor heads?
What are you smoking? Cargurus? Do you even know what MSRP is? I got my numbers from the manufacturers, because, you know, MSRP. Such reputable sites like www.audiusa.com and www.bmwusa.com.
I didn't say I would laugh at someone driving a Type S. I said I would think they were an idiot for buying it if I knew they paid $10k ADM on top of the $52,300 MSRP to push it above what an S4 or M340i would cost. You don't need to be a motor head to love cars. I don't think half a second makes a bit of difference to most people. I might not even feel the half second difference, personally, between mashing the gas in an S4 or a Type S. But I do know that most people aren't buying a Type S. It's probably the most performance oriented Hondacura fans seeking out this car. They will care. Acura took a direct swipe at the Euros luxury performance sedans with this car. While it appears to be a good swing, they didn't land the punch. Arguing until you're blue in the face makes you come across like a snowflake, but I'm not buying what you're selling and I bet most others won't either. Cool, nice car? Maybe. It's not squaring up to the competition though.
What are you smoking? Cargurus? Do you even know what MSRP is? I got my numbers from the manufacturers, because, you know, MSRP. Such reputable sites like www.audiusa.com and www.bmwusa.com.
I didn't say I would laugh at someone driving a Type S. I said I would think they were an idiot for buying it if I knew they paid $10k ADM on top of the $52,300 MSRP to push it above what an S4 or M340i would cost. You don't need to be a motor head to love cars. I don't think half a second makes a bit of difference to most people. I might not even feel the half second difference, personally, between mashing the gas in an S4 or a Type S. But I do know that most people aren't buying a Type S. It's probably the most performance oriented Hondacura fans seeking out this car. They will care. Acura took a direct swipe at the Euros luxury performance sedans with this car. While it appears to be a good swing, they didn't land the punch. Arguing until you're blue in the face makes you come across like a snowflake, but I'm not buying what you're selling and I bet most others won't either. Cool, nice car? Maybe. It's not squaring up to the competition though.
I don’t know man. I wouldn’t assume that just because a cat was driving a Type S that he paid $10K over sticker. Many dealers are applying ADM, but many aren’t. The MSRP is $53,800 with destination. Throwing AMD in when doing price comparisons is simply a straw man argument.
As to pricing out that Audi, take a look at the Type S feature list then go to audiusa.com and build a comparable vehicle. I think you’ll be surprised at how much it will cost. Make sure to include the Bang & Olufsen, nav unit, and cooled leather seats.
Bear, you’re pushing a point that’s irrelevant to me.
Yeah its pretty obvious you don't understand why some one would spend more on a car than you would. Expect there are some guys in the Civic & Accord forums that don't understand why you would spend $54,000 for a TLX compared to their cars.
The point you find irrelevant is people will pay what they think a car is worth to them. People are willing to pay more for an Audi than an Acura. Some people are willing to pay more for an Acura than a Civic, the automobile market dynamics are very, very simple. People will pay for what they want if they can.
Last year in the US 278,732 people bought a BMW with an average price of $59,000. Meanwhile Acura sold 136,982 with an average price unknown.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 07-12-2021 at 08:23 PM.
DubPK, just for curiosity sake what car(s) do you currently own or lease?
2013 Honda Accord Coupe with the V6. Bought it not quite brand new but basically new with just a couple thousand miles on her in late 2013, been a great car but been feeling a little long in the tooth and with the user car market inflated this is probably the best possible time I'll ever have to sell it, I'd buy another Accord in a heartbeat as I think they are really good cars but really looking to try something higher end / more fun for my possibly last ICE car as the electric wave is in sight. Hoping in another 7-10 years there are a lot more options and maybe some standardization of the charging infrastructure in the works - probably wishful thinking.
Yeah its pretty obvious you don't understand why some one would spend more on a car than you would. Expect there are some guys in the Civic & Accord forums that don't understand why you would spend $54,000 for a TLX compared to their cars.
Bear, I completely understand why someone would spend more on a car. It’s their prerogative and it has absolutely nothing to do with me. What you don’t seem to want to accept is that someone might not need the pinnacle of performance to be happy with the performance of a vehicle. Where as with me if a person is happy with their choice I’m happy for them. No way am I going to attempt to force my taste on them nor am I going to belittle or denigrate their chosen vehicle. To me that would equate to snobbishness and bad manners. Like I said in another post my ego doesn’t need that type of support.
As to pricing out that Audi, take a look at the Type S feature list then go to audiusa.com and build a comparable vehicle. I think you’ll be surprised at how much it will cost.
I built one exactly as I'd take it and it came out to $55.6k
Make sure to include the Bang & Olufsen
Why? I rarely listen to the sound system anymore. I prefer to drive in silence, or throw a podcast on when my 2020 RDX with 16k miles is aggravating me with rattles due to abysmal build quality issues.
nav unit
That's what Waze and Apple CarPlay are for. Even before these times where CarPlay was integrated, car navs were always mocked as being worse than Apple Maps.
and cooled leather seats.
Got 'em. And they come with sunshades for the rear, something not even offered on the Type-S.
Granted, I don't have (or need/want) the dynamic steering, sport diff or adaptive dampers. Doing a cursory search, the difference between the base and optional equipment are negligible for each. Those would certainly balloon the price, but for me, I see no need for any of it. That's just me though ...
I suggest you go to Cargurus and see where both new S4s and M340is are priced at. Why would some stranger laugh at you because your car only does a 4.9 second 60 as opposed to a 4.2 second 60? Do you know any real people or do you spend your time only with motor heads?
I mean you're right the average joe isn't going to know the difference, they will look at the style or color and maybe say nice car to you if they know you otherwise they will give absolutely zero shits about you but YOU are a car guy aren't you?
Wouldn't it bug you to spend say $54,000 on a TLX-S when as a car guy you know you could spend that same amount of money (roughly) on a G70, S4, 340i, etc and gotten more of literally everything for your dollar? You know as equipped the S4 I would buy is $60,500 (Prestige, Mythos Black, Warm Weather Package) but without even trying yet they mentioned they will do a 4% discount bringing it down $58,000 and some change. That's only around $4000 more than the TLX-S as I had configured it and that's compared to the prestige S4 with every single tech bell and whistle you can get on a modern car short of autonomous driving.
You know what really pisses me off about the TLX-S? It has nothing to do with it getting spanked by everything else in the segment from a performance aspect but on top of the car not having any bite to back up it's precision crafted performance bark Acura cheaped out on it by withholding features from the Advance trim. Are you fucking kidding me? For $52,000 the car better be good at something besides winning an award for how many Type S badges can be placed on a car. If it's not going to have the most amazing performance it better come with everything for that price. If you're going to cheap out on interior amenities it better be a performance bargain. It does neither and for fucks sake it can't even get as good of gas mileage as the competition despite less performance.
Acura had everything they needed to make an impression and just missed.
For $52,000 the car better be good at something besides winning an award for how many Type S badges can be placed on a car.
Somebody argued against me when I said that hardly anybody would be able to tell the difference between the base TLX and Type-S outside of car enthusiasts due to the subtle design changes .... claiming others would clearly be able to tell the difference because of how many Type-S badges there are. That's your typical ricer Honduhh argument logic if I've ever seen it ...
I mean you're right the average joe isn't going to know the difference, they will look at the style or color and maybe say nice car to you if they know you otherwise they will give absolutely zero shits about you but YOU are a car guy aren't you?
Wouldn't it bug you to spend say $54,000 on a TLX-S when as a car guy you know you could spend that same amount of money (roughly) on a G70, S4, 340i, etc and gotten more of literally everything for your dollar? You know as equipped the S4 I would buy is $60,500 (Prestige, Mythos Black, Warm Weather Package) but without even trying yet they mentioned they will do a 4% discount bringing it down $58,000 and some change. That's only around $4000 more than the TLX-S as I had configured it and that's compared to the prestige S4 with every single tech bell and whistle you can get on a modern car short of autonomous driving.
You know what really pisses me off about the TLX-S? It has nothing to do with it getting spanked by everything else in the segment from a performance aspect but on top of the car not having any bite to back up it's precision crafted performance bark Acura cheaped out on it by withholding features from the Advance trim. Are you fucking kidding me? For $52,000 the car better be good at something besides winning an award for how many Type S badges can be placed on a car. If it's not going to have the most amazing performance it better come with everything for that price. If you're going to cheap out on interior amenities it better be a performance bargain. It does neither and for fucks sake it can't even get as good of gas mileage as the competition despite less performance.
Acura had everything they needed to make an impression and just missed.
I wouldn’t be bugged. I drive an Aspec now. The S is simply an Aspec with a 6, bremos, and additional styling touches. My Aspec already attracts a lot of attention. If you’re just talking about eyeballs of all the cars you mentioned the S is going to attract the most attention from both the public and the casual enthusiast. Nobody and I mean nobody is going to be interested in seeing a S4. To be honest if I had $65k to spend I’d buy an A6. Interesting thing is that with the S4 engine and the weight of the Type S the A6 only does a 5.1 60.
Somebody argued against me when I said that hardly anybody would be able to tell the difference between the base TLX and Type-S outside of car enthusiasts due to the subtle design changes .... claiming others would clearly be able to tell the difference because of how many Type-S badges there are. That's your typical ricer Honduhh argument logic if I've ever seen it ...
Those tail pipes and the front splitter will tell folks all they need to know. As to the the badges you can always remove them.
I don’t know man. I wouldn’t assume that just because a cat was driving a Type S that he paid $10K over sticker. Many dealers are applying ADM, but many aren’t. The MSRP is $53,800 with destination. Throwing AMD in when doing price comparisons is simply a straw man argument.
As to pricing out that Audi, take a look at the Type S feature list then go to audiusa.com and build a comparable vehicle. I think you’ll be surprised at how much it will cost. Make sure to include the Bang & Olufsen, nav unit, and cooled leather seats.
You really need to get this cost thing out of your mind. Cars in this class are price independent compared to the cars priced below them.
People buy what they like & can afford. Yes German car are more expensive because they can sell more expensive cars. People shop cars up not down. Hey I can afford an Audi S4 so I think I will run out & get a cheaper TLX, ain't going to happen. If these cars were price dependent then Acura would sell more cars because its cheaper. It does not sell more cars therefore cars in the BMW class are price independent when compared to Acura. Being the bang for the buck car in this range buys it no status at this level.
You can bounce around as much as you want with, what about this & what about that. At the end of the day Acura went straight up head to head with their chosen target the slowest German the S4 to prove their performance cred against the German cars. Then the law of unintended consequences, the German car, kicked their ass. BIG BIG Mistake. The whole we are cheaper but perform just as good marketing plan went down in flames in about 12.8 seconds.
Or maybe you think they invited a bunch of youtubers on their account to play at Laguna Seca "the fastest road in the west" to demonstrate the TLX had a better radio.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 07-12-2021 at 09:01 PM.
You really need to get this cost thing out of your mind. Cars in this class are price independent compared to the cars priced below them.
People buy what they like & can afford. Yes German car are more expensive because they can sell more expensive cars. People shop cars up not down. Hey I can afford an Audi S4 so I think I will run out & get a cheaper TLX, ain't going to happen. If these cars were price dependent then Acura would sell more cars because its cheaper. It does not sell more cars therefore cars in the BMW class are price independent when compared to Acura. Being the bang for the buck car in this range buys it no status at this level.
You can bounce around as much as you want with, what about this & what about that. At the end of the day Acura went straight up head to head with their chosen target the slowest German the S4 to prove their performance cred against the German cars. Then the law of unintended consequences, the German car, kicked their ass. BIG BIG Mistake. The whole we are cheaper but perform just as good marketing plan went down in flames in about 12.8 seconds.
Or maybe you think they invited a bunch of youtubers on their account to play at Laguna Seca "the fastest road in the west" to demonstrate the TLX had a better radio.
I don’t know, Bear. It’s really not that important to me. It’s not like Acura can force you to buy their vehicles. I’m in LA. I see expensive cars day in a day out. I have no problem with folks buying what they want. I marvel that someone can buy a Lamborghini Urus or McLaren. They’re both pieces of art that should be appreciated though I can possibly afford either.
I wouldn’t be bugged. I drive an Aspec now. The S is simply an Aspec with a 6, bremos, and additional styling touches. My Aspec already attracts a lot of attention. If you’re just talking about eyeballs of all the cars you mentioned the S is going to attract the most attention from both the public and the casual enthusiast. To be honest if I had $65k to spend I’d buy an A6. Interesting thing is that with the S4 engine and the weight of the Type S the A6 only does a 5.1 60.
An S4 is not $65,000. If you got the premium plus and added the Bang and Olufsen stereo and warm weather package for the more cooled seats you're talking just $56,195, throw in a 4% discount and we are $53,995.. the same price as the TLX-S and arguably more bang for the buck. That admittedly doesn't include navigation but it does include wireless carplay/android auto soooo do you really need the built in NAV anyways? This is probably how most buyers would buy it and it's also the build that compares most equally with the TLX-S. You don't need the Prestige trim.
An S4 is not $65,000. If you got the premium plus and added the Bang and Olufsen stereo and warm weather package for the more cooled seats you're talking just $56,195, throw in a 4% discount and we are $53,995.. the same price as the TLX-S and arguably more bang for the buck. That admittedly doesn't include navigation but it does include wireless carplay/android auto soooo do you really need the built in NAV anyways? This is probably how most buyers would buy it and it's also the build that compares most equally with the TLX-S. You don't need the Prestige trim.
Okay, you got a winner. Make sure to post pictures here after your purchase.
Okay, you got a winner. Make sure to post pictures here after your purchase.
Lol.. I don't even know if I'm going to go through with it yet but my personal debate was between the S4 and TLX-S. Still love the S4 but also still a bit sad the TLX-S turned out to compete so poorly because I really liked it in theory, love the styling, thought hey maybe Acura is back! and am admittedly something of a Honda fan (not a crazy they do everything right sort of fanboyism but appreciate a lot of what they do sort of fan). Never owned a German car before, bit hesitant but we'll see what happens. What unfortunately definitely isn't happening is a TLX-S purchase.
Those tail pipes and the front splitter will tell folks all they need to know. As to the the badges you can always remove them.
We, as car enthusiasts, see stuff like that. 98.4417289% of the general public that doesn't care about cars will gloss over that fact and simply look at the overall shape and automaker badge on the car and nothing else ...
We, as car enthusiasts, see stuff like that. 98.4417289% of the general public that doesn't care about cars will gloss over that fact and simply look at the overall shape and automaker badge on the car and nothing else ...
plus, anyone could add carbon fiber splitters and wangs to their aspec....
saw this in a sam's club parking lot.
I, as a car enthusiast, know that this aint the real deal.
but non car people will think it's something special
Last edited by justnspace; 07-12-2021 at 09:37 PM.
We, as car enthusiasts, see stuff like that. 98.4417289% of the general public that doesn't care about cars will gloss over that fact and simply look at the overall shape and automaker badge on the car and nothing else ...
True, you’d have to first know there were two versions of what to most people at first glance would appear to be the same car. There are already owners adding the splitter and rear diffusers to their Aspec.
So, you watch a video of AHC running mid 13s and come to a conclusion that apsolutely no one can improve on this time??? These same guys are running high 14`s with Accord when many others are doing low 14`s. We know Type S is not that fast but I will judge final numbers once we get more data. That's all I'm saying.
It looks like we got more data from C&D: 13.6s quarter miles, just like what the AHC guys got. Are you going to eat crow yet?
Originally Posted by dmski
The fact that they let journalists drag against the S4 proves that Type S is faster. With that, it's not that far off from 340 which is a damn fast car.
I guess things don't exactly work out the way we think they will, do they?
07-12-2021, 05:41 PM
