vhtran

Hey, I believe in Mrs. Santa Claus during that time of the year and most likely what I wish do come true.

Honda430

What’s the point and what in the hell does that have to do with you as a human being? Who cares what Acura does? I’d suggest you remove that one from your anger list and invest that energy into something that actually makes you or those around you feel more positive. Just chill man and enjoy life.

someguy11

Who cares what Acura does? This is an Acura forum, where people come to talk about Acura, critique Acura cars and discuss other Acura things like commercials. Discussing. Acura. Is literally. The point. Of this forum.

I do love my life. I love cars too. I don't love all Acura cars, but I love many of them, including the TSX I owned. I love every Honda car I've owned and driven. I'm not angry. Well I'm kinda angry. Sometimes I sound angry, usually toward my TLX or Acura as a brand being a shell of its former self. But I come here to discuss the brand and all cars. I'm chilled. Are you? If you're not here to discuss Acura, or don't care what they do, you could probably exit the forum and go back to trolling on Facebook.

Honda430

We all got issues, but mines have nothing to do with whether the Type S can best the other competitors in its class. That’s your issue. Would I pay $54K for it, no. Would I pay $54K for anything else in the class? No again. Would I pay $50K for a Type S with the carbon fiber interior inserts and splash guards? I certainly would and I’d firmly believe I’d be getting a lot of car for my coin.

Honda430

No I’m not here to shit on Acura and that seems to piss some folks off.

fiatlux

That's probably because the deniers and fanboys and apologists are the reason why Acura thinks it can continue to underperform. What twists the knife is that these fanboys purpoit to be enthusiasts when really they're just enables. And truth be told, an underperforming and underwhelming Type S is not going to make or break Acura's business. How many additional sales could a really good Type S generate them? Maybe 5K a year, if even that? When it comes to their crossovers, that's a rounding error.

Honda430

There you got it. Acura made the car, that based on their customer base, they thought they could make the most money on. I don’t know why this is so hard for people to understand. Unfortunately for a lot of enthusiasts companies are in business to make money. You could argue that a $60k Super Type S while satisfying a certain slice of the enthusiast market would have actually bleed sales from Acura by making the other cars in the segment better value propositions. My take is that there’s really not a lot of volume in that $55k + sports sedan market for a company who’s market is limited to North America.

pyrodan007

I beg to differ, if the Type-S had very close performance to the M340i and had all luxury options standard, it would have a ripped a new asshole in the German's sport sedan sales. Probably even taking some of the regular models too. I can get an 330i/A4/C300 or a sport sedan for the same price.

It didn't need that much more R&D to do so: a bit more boost, some weight reduction, and a beefier tranny. If the AWD is the weak point, well that's something else.

Honda430

Are you an automobile engineer who is familiar with the Honda supply chain, profit targets, and corporate governance? Absent that knowledge you realistically can’t say how easy anything can be done by Acura. I believe that under the circumstances they have put what they believe is their best foot forward. If the effort doesn’t meet with your needs don’t buy the vehicle. It’s really as simple as that. Might be time for you to go haunt the Audi forums and espouse on the merits and deficiencies of the A4 with A4 owners.

pyrodan007

Ladies and gents, I present to you the stereotypical Acura Fanboy.
Clearly Acura engineers know jack shit too to say it competes with the S4 ... and stop using price as a selling point since it means nothing for performance. The Type-S' competition will always be the S4/M340i/C43 AMG even if they cost 20k more, starting price is similar and they all have the same engine from low to high option ranges.

Kense

What I don't get is if all the Acura fans don't all of a sudden care about going fast or 0-60 times in the 4 ranges. Why not just get the Regular TLX? Why do you even care about the Type S since everybody else is stupid for wanting to Drag race or Dragy their 0-60 times? If none of that matters to you, just get a base TLX or an Accord then? Why is there even a Type S if nobody cares about going fast?

pyrodan007

Some of the popular arguments for getting a TLX versus the Accord is a better sound system, handling/AWD, and interior (etc) for 10k more. Well, the difference between the Type-S and the Germans is 10K (ish), the jump in performance quality is THE SAME BLOODY THING! You can't say it's good for one but not the other lol.

Sefuthun

Before the TLX-S became the slowest new car in the segment, I'm wondering if those ppl harping atm had went onto the previous slowest car's forums to harp there (not sure which car was the slowest prior to the TLX-S)

Also... never realized marketing was such a sensitive subject here lol

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

Welcome back from the dead. Glad this entire conversation went right over you. See you in another few years.

Honda430

You’re a hot mess. 😂😂😂😂

fiatlux

The problem is that the Type S is supposed to be something of a halo car for Acura. Beyond of the direct incremental sales it drives, there's some percentage of sales of the regular TLX that should be attributed to it through customers who come in looking at a Type S but drive out in a regular TLX. The problem is that this "halo" car loses a lot of its luster because it gets outgunned by the competition...competition that isn't even trying their hardest. The worst part of it is that the competition probably could do even better, but they limit their offerings to help protect the respective M/RS/AMG cars above it. In fact, we know that BMW sandbagged the M340i to help protect the M3. However, the Type S is supposed to be the pinnacle for Acura, so there's no reason they need to hold back on anything. That means that this is their best attempt at making a performance sedan, and unfortunately as a best attempt it's a very poor showing.

A lot of times, the raison d'etre for cars like this goes beyond simply maximizing ROI. Performance models are typically an ineffecient use of capital and resources even if they're NPV positive, but automakers still build these cars as a way to demonstrate their capabilities, or as a sense of pride and executive desire (as is the case of the GR Supra, GR Yaris, etc.). For the Type S, Ikeda talked it up like it's supposed to be the pinnacle of Honda/Acura engineering and that it cements Acura as a performance brand, but what was delivered does not live up to those expectations by any stretch of the imagination.

pyrodan007

My definition of a proper sports sedan should be coming in next month, exactly as configured. The only reason I lose some sleep and I'm a hot mess (so you say) is because I need to wait for it. For Acura fans, that wait will be in years as the counter reset back to zero.

Kense

I hope they work for Acura . The blind loyalty is odd. Then some claim why are we here. Well I have a 2004 TL and an MDX. Not sure why they assume people here don’t have anything Acura. We were looking to replace the MDX with a Type S for the wife. Not happening now. Of the MDX type S turns out faster than the TLX that may be an option.

BEAR-AvHistory

I expect the M340 guys will support you. Not a fan of the 4 cylinder 330 would never buy one. The 330 guys claim its lighter on the front end so more agile than the M340. A lot of good that will do them.

BEAR-AvHistory

That's the whole point....we don't believe it, know its bull shit & point out the bull shit in clear detail.....then you go & get all defensive because we knocked the product. Find it interesting you are two different people on the Acura/Honda forums.

whiteGSR

What's the price difference between a M340I (decently equipped) and a base model M3? Probably $10k? So by your logic, why stop at the M340I, why not get a M3 that has better performance for "only" $10K more? So why aren't you getting a RS4 or RS5 and settling for a slower S4/S5 ?

At some point, budget will have to be a consideration. What can you buy that will give you the best combination of driving experience and performance, for the price that they are willing to spend. You can't just keep saying, oh just pay $10K more and you'll have a faster car. I think Acura was aiming for a $50K MSRP car, and due to whatever reasons, the price ballooned up and they had to get rid of HUD/Surround view to get the price to $53K. Just my speculation of course. Now, if they wanted more that 355hp to compete with the Germans, then they will have to sell you a fully loaded car for $56K+ car. Is that more to your liking if it's as fast/slightly faster than an S4, but now it's approaching 60k? Then some people will complain about the price.

pyrodan007

Funny you mention the RS models, as if Acura has anything that's in the same league. If you can't afford, you can't afford it (same when looking above from an Accord). If the Type-S will break budget by adding a few thousand, then maybe you should stick to the lower versions. Like fans say on forum, no one needs that much performance.

Sefuthun

The entertainment from the critics & supporters has brought me back from the dead. And I was just super fixated on the harping of 0-60 times in this segment, so I was wondering if that same energy had been applied elsewhere before the TLX-S took the crown of being the slowest with its 4.9s

And give me your 3G TL so I can finally be part of the Acura family

mike03a3

Why are we here? I'm here because I've been a fan of Honda products since I bought a CB-350 motorcycle in 1968. I became a fan of Honda vehicles when we bought a new Accord for my wife in 1988. A few weeks after we bought it we took it to Busch Gardens for a company outing weekend. While we were at the park there was a major thunderstorm, which shut down all the rides and attractions and required us to shelter in place until it passed. When we could finally leave we discovered a new lake where our car was parked. The new parking lot drainage had failed to drain, so there were a lot of cars in water well up on the doors, including our new Accord. I waded out to the car to rescue our possessions and, on a whim, sat down in the water covering the driver's seat and tried to start it. Much to my surprise it started! I drove it out of the water, we opened the doors and bailed as best be could, and drove the 165 miles back home. Once home I pulled out the carpets and underlayment and put large fans in the car to dry it out. The next morning I took it to the dealer and had all the fluids changed and wheel bearings repacked. Busch Gardens was thrilled to pay for new carpets, the service and paid me for the time I spent on it. Most people just walked off and left their vehicles, so they got off cheap with us.

There were two results from this inauspicious beginning. Our car was forever known to our friends and coworkers as Das Boot,
and since it ran for 432,000 miles with no expenses other than the normal consumables (e.g. brakes, tires, etc) and routine service it earned our loyalty to the Honda Brand. In subsequent years we had a series of Accords, always V6 MTs, until the '07 TL Type-S came along. I fully expected to continue with another Type-S, but I can't get past the disappointment this time.

whiteGSR

What does Acura not making a RS model have to do with it? You're telling people to just pony up an extra $10K so they can have S4/S5 performance. So I'm telling you to pony up the extra $10K for RS then. Yet, somehow, you can't or won't AND you don't understand why someone will be perfectly happy with a Type S and doesn't want to spend an extra $10K on top of $53K. Ok...got it.

Budget doesn't necessarily only mean ability to pay, but rather willingness to pay as well.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

Without writing an entire novel here i'll say it straight forward.

AS of this moment, in the united states, most Acura dealerships have marked up the TLX-S price from 5-15K. This is also without any discounts allowed. Read it carefully. AS OF THIS moment. So this means, the TLX-S is NO LONGER a $53,000 vehicle. It is now a 53K Plus the mark-up excluding additional fees.

As of this moment, you can still custom build your M340i and get 5-9% discount. No mark up on the prices.

What this means, is you are spending roughly the same cost depending on your M340i build options.


A few things to point out here, before the TLX-S, Acura had nothing worth discussing, other than the NSX. After the 3rd gen TL the company produced boring, bread and butter vehicles. The 4.9 0-60 times was the best numbers hit by a professional driver on a proper track. AHC did real world 0-60 runs in real world conditions and constantly nailed 5.2-5.3. Again, nothing major in difference but I can agree for argument sake, its a 5 sec 0-60 vehicle.

When my TL goes on cars and bids you can bid to buy it.

Welcome back.

BEAR-AvHistory

Yes they can. Its totally dumbass stupid & illogical but they can say it. All the performance metrics are important only if the Acura TLX-Type S wins. When it racks up the start of a string of loses its no longer important. Its $10K cheaper & has a nice radio. Its also unfair to bring up the Honda because its a lesser car.

Saw C&D today. The new Type-S review made the magazine. On page 72 & 73 out of about 80 pages. One of print one of pictures. No one is taking this car seriously.

fiatlux

Its not even a new review. It’s the First Drive article from May with the test numbers. They couldn’t even be bothered to write a new article for it…

whiteGSR

Damn, I sound like a Type S fanboy, even though I am thoroughly disappointed in the car as well and will be keeping my 3G TL-S 6mt for a little while longer. I have multiple cars and was hoping to consolidate, but unfortunately this generation will not be it.

NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY is saying that you should pay $10K ADM and go yep, I have a better car than a $63K+ German car. Who is saying that?

Also, stop it with this ADM BS as a way of saying ,see, the TLX-S is not a better value than the a more expensive car. They aren't charging ADMs in my whole country (Canada), and if you look at the other threads, a lot of dealers in the US aren't either, and the ones that are and now taking it away.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

Nothing Bullshit about the ADM. I bring it up because all the TLX-S at dealership lots in my area are marked up 7K (on average). So If I wanted to buy a TLX-S right now, do you want me to search the entire country to see who isn't marking them up and then see who actually has one for sale? I included the ADM because if it's marked up, guess what buddy, you're paying it. Simple as that.

That's why I clearly said AS OF NOW. This will all (Hopefully) change and change soon.

pyrodan007

But I already did pony up 10k from the Type-S to get the S5 SB. I would have to pony up another 10k to get the RS5. Actually .. the RS5 is much more than 10k.
The performance folks can get pretty insane with budget though, look at how many spend extra for mods. It's not the same group that are thinking about moving up from a regular TLX. Half of the comments in audiworld R/S4/5 forum are strictly about upgrades. Based on what your saying, most of the Type-S folks will end their journey at dealer purchase.

BEAR-AvHistory

Could be wrong but I think most if not all the other cars actually in the segment outside of the M340 are pretty much even up. What really makes for entertainment & why the TLX Type-S is the butt of the joke right not is stuff like this from Detroit Free Press article

"dramatic styling and a BMW M-fighting Type S badge, the TLX completes Acura’s return to performance prominence."

Some of these guys should be writing for a half hour TV sitcom.

Honda430

Got a link?

dmski

Stop being such a drama queen.... No one is forcing you to buy one. You don't like it.... MOVE ON. Btw, I got one at MSRP.

SebringSilver

Let’s just take the price out of the equation all together. I don’t know the exact weights of all the cars in this segment, but I’m going to generalize and say the C43, S4, M340i are all around 3,600 to maybe 3,800 lbs? Please post the correct numbers if anyone has them. The Type S weighs more, like 400 or 500 lbs more than those I mentioned, is that about right? I just find it interesting that the German manufacturers were able to produce much better cars while using significantly less metal, glass, plastic, leather, rubber, etc than Acura did.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

I'm stating facts, nothing drama about it. Glad you got one at MSRP.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...ce/3124931001/

https://www.gearpatrol.com/cars/a364...-type-s-price/

fiatlux

The TLX is larger, so intuitively it weighs more. That’s a reasonable trade off, but the car isn’t actually bigger inside, so to me it’s no different than just adding deadweight. Also, the Germans use more aluminum, which is lighter. Acura uses more steel which help keeps the costs down. As always, you get what you pay for.

dmski

Don't just look at stats. Go and sit in it. Yes, the backseat is cramped but the driver has so much more room compared to Germans because the car is so much wider. It makes a huge difference for me. I have small kids so backseat is more than adequate for them.

fiatlux

I did sit in it, quite a few times actually. It didn’t feel substantially bigger to me in the drivers seat compared to other compacts. I know it’s supposed to be wider, but it actually felt tighter than my 1G. I actually do prefer the tighter cabin because it feels more like a cockpit, but they could have accomplished that same feat without making this car as long as an Accord.

For me backseat does not work well because I need to fit a rear facing car seat. I suppose once it flips forward it’s not as big of a deal, but it’s still mind blowing to me that a car as long as an Accord can have less room than a Civic, especially for a company renown for its packaging and thoughtful practicality.