Nexx

TLX did seem to win the vaunted 0-60 that so many here seem to here hold to as the most important stat when buying a car.

fiatlux

In that case, shouldn't it be:

Kense

Probably but English is my Second language. Japanese is my first so.

TSX69

Legend2TL

^

Pretty good objective comparison review. He noted the sloppiest of the handling/steering of the S4 compared to the Type-S which felt better to the reviewer when pushed some in turns. He felt the vehicle overall handling dynamics and balance were better in the Type-S over the S4. Overall comments start at ~8:00

Tony Pac

It's a decent comparison and I cannot comment as I haven't tested the TYPE S yet. I will wait before I judge S4 vs. TYPE S. But I can tell one thing, the exhaust sound of S4 is better inside the vehicle.

mec30

There was another review that also mentioned the NVH of the S4 was also a bit higher. I think it was the TFL review. Could be why the cabin exhaust sound has more volume.

F23A4

Sounds a lot like the M340i in Sport mode, which I spent some time driving this past Saturday. The S4 got that part right!!

SebringSilver

New A4/S4/RS4 coming in 2023 which some say will look largely like this.

pyrodan007

By then, the new S4 will for sure use some sort of electrical boosting. Which would make the Type-S non-competitive again since they could only do so much to thermal engine before a redesign is needed. For sure BMW has something up it's sleeve for the next 1-2 years, Mercedes is due soon.

Tony Pac

Much needed! If it will be like this, I must say super awesome!

F23A4

Agreed! Acura should cut their losses discontinue the TLX now.

Legend2TL

But where will those that rant and rave on these 2G threads do with their lives?

Kense

isn’t this the Etron GT?

SebringSilver

Nope, it’s the next-gen RS4 apparently. I like how they’re bringing the whole A4 lineup more in line with the design theme of other newer models. There’ll be hybrid and fully electric versions as well. Im wondering if it means Acura will have to set their sights on something else when their 3G TLX eventually starts being planned.

BEAR-AvHistory

Curious what are you driving now & do you intend to buy a 2021/2022 Type-S?

F23A4

That's a mic drop post right there^^!

SebringSilver

How so? I don’t see anyone ranting or raving on this forum. All I see are some people who think Acura is the greatest thing in the world, and some who don’t agree with that perspective.

Legend2TL

+1, thx!

F23A4

Coincidentally, all I see are people harping on the 2G for not being at the pinnacle of this segment, and some (including a number of auto journalists and enthusiasts) who recognize the ground that Acura made up with this model. With all the shortcomings incumbent with the Infiniti Q50, I dont think I've ever felt inclined to b-tich (repeatedly) about that model over on NicoClub.com....and I certainly wouldn't go ad nauseum on grieving Q50 owners for opting for that instead of a [insert competing Euro model here].

For you guys who picked up the 21 TLX, great purchase! I'm sure you guys are going to love it for years to come. Keep the pictures coming and keep us updated on your experiences.

Kense

But did you own a Q50? Many of us here have or had a TL at some point. I have an 04 TL and a 2014 MDX. I don’t think there are random people here who never had an Acura. Besides the Infiniti forum is dead and they have not made a new Q50. When they do and if it's not up to par they will get roasted too. It’s just a car some of you are way too sensitive . Acura doesn’t care about you. You’re a customer.

Acura TL Builder

Nitzche once wrote, "The student is as much the teacher, as the teacher is a student"(paraphrase). Meaning the teacher learns new insights from the fresh eyes of the young inquisitive mind. Just as the student learns new insights from the knowledge of the teacher.

Acura is wise to listen to its customer base if it is to have above average success in the industry.

pyrodan007

The Type-S just came out, if people expect it to be competitive with minor changes for the next 6 years (whenever TLX 3.0 comes out) they're dreaming in living color. It should have had hybrid components from day one. Acura is not an agile company, far from it. If they were, would have forced some powertrain changes way before prototype was unveiled 2 years. I would have been the first to congratulate them. Instead they killed off electrification until 2024 or so (depending on GM...). Not to mention completely missing the golden opportunity to beat current thermal engines from direct models. Infiniti at least got that right with the power numbers, looking good on paper and tables which Acura would for sure brag about. Infiniti's engine + Type-S' interior would have been a hard to beat combination for the same price.

SebringSilver

Um….have you seen the title of this thread? It literally says TLX vs The Competition. So if people can’t post comparisons about the TLX and its competitors, what is the point of posting at all? You can’t blame the forum members that Acura didn’t produce a stellar vehicle with the new TLX, resulting in the less than stellar comments. You can only blame Acura for that.

And just for the record, I’ve owned 3 first-gen TLXs and was ready to buy a new Type S when Acura proudly promised they were getting back to their roots, with performance being job one. But it turned out to be an underpowered tub of lard. Why are we not allowed to call it out for what it is? Are only gushing positive comments welcome?

F23A4

As in the one that shares a bed with my 1G TLX? Granted, it's a 3.7 Sport not, the 3.0T.




That said, I disagree; though I wont speak for others, I'm not at all sensitive to the criticism of the product rather, I'm fairly indifferent. This indifference relegates said repeat criticism to white noise before long. (As a parent to four kids and two grandkids, I usually see that as an indication of attention seeking....which I'll humor occasionally.)

However, what I am concerned about are new TLX members who enjoy their purchase (for what it is) being marginalised because their purchase doesn't meet someone else's arbitrary standards. It's not an M340i/330i (which is the benchmark for this segment) and maybe not an S4/A4...but, it doesn't need to be IMHO.

F23A4

I've no interest in entertaining those last two questions which are presumably rhetorical but, I don't disagree that it's a heavy machine. However, this excerpt from Jalopnik should give room for pause at least until full testing and reporting is completed:

Jalopnik

djhtsx

iTrader: (2)

I think people keep forgetting that although this is overweight for its class. You also have to remember that the tlx is also longer and wider than it’s class making the weight in line with a 5 series or a Audi A7 and etc. I think it’s quite amazing that Acura was able to achieve balance and handling for its size. I don’t know how many of you have driven the new s7 but if you do you will realize how handling is not a strong point for this vehicle.

robnalex

The TLX is a big girl who's light on her feet. I researched this car pretty thoroughly before purchasing but never paid much attention to the exterior dimensions and the weight. When we got her home, parked next to our 2019 RDX, my wife said, "The TLX looks wider than the RDX." I said, "No- can't be." But it is .04" wider, 7.8" longer, and just 44 lbs lighter.

fiatlux

I think it would be fine as a midsize competitor...however Acura themselves gave it the interior of a compact, which is what invites comparisons with the 3-series and S4. They also benchmarked it agains the S4 and C43, suggesting that those are the actual targets. I've said it before; if they had retained the cabin space of the Accord, people here would have no problem comparing it against the midsize entrants in which case it would compare really well from both a price and performance perspective. It's a shame they couldn't, because if the new ILX is based on the new Civic platform, I'd expect the interior space to rival that of the TLX unless they decide to gimp that as well. Acura tries to spin it as a positive; you get midsize "presence" for compact price, but people are seeing it for what it is; you get midsize mass for compact space and performance.

F23A4

That's a valid counterpoint. It does appear that Acura could have pulled the wheelbase a bit more, giving the TLX additional rear seat room while making the it a respectable competitor within the premium midsize segment. A cursory glance at the comparative dimensions seems to reveal that they were close enough to just go up one segment:



...also would have cleared space to make something decent in the segment where the ILX currently occupies.

Edmunds

ELIN

Some would argue you don't even get compact performance!

BEAR-AvHistory

Think trying to go to the midsize segment would have made it a duck out of water. Don't expect many looking to buy a 5, E, or A6 would be buying a TLX to save a few dollars. Even more than the compact class 3/4, C & A4/5, to many, the midsize cars are a I have made it statement. They also have the image rub-off that they share the shell & interior with $120,000 cars.

Acura has no real history of conquest sales against the midsize cars, remember the $50,000 RLX? The badge has really no high dollar recognition. They seem to do well with upward migration from Acura & Civic.

Over time there have been Chevy, Fords & Dodges with long wheelbases & body lengths. Not much cross buying, between them in the midsize Germans. Closest was/is Lexus who did it correctly. Copied a MB E/S body, line for line, stuck a V8 up front & drive wheels out back. Now the Koreans are playing the same song with the big Genesis.

Think I would have canned trying to get the visual allusion of a RWD car & developed a similar sized compact car with just slightly better dimensions than the Germans. The way it stands a 3700lb car with 18PSI instead of 15PSI at WOT & the TLX-S is a winner at $53,000.

If they were worried about the boosts effect on reliability the ECU could manage it. The 335is IIRC had a normal boost of around 10PSI @ 320ftlbs. At WOT for short bursts that would shift to 15psi & 370ftlbs. The super boost was locked out till the 1200 mile break-in was finished & the number of back to back runs was limited, Nice selling feature back in 2011.

Acura has/had a shot with a clean sheet of paper & an all new platform of its own. Why does it look like a do over of the 4G marketing strategy?

fiatlux

They don't have to be going directly after the Germans. They could very well decide they want to be a sportier, more performance oriented alternative to the ES350, which by the way outsells the 5-Series and A6 combined. I agree it may not steal a whole lot of sales from the Germans, but there's definitely a big enough market of customers who are looking for a premium midsize sedan that actually has a midsize interior (ala the ES). Lest we forget, the TL historically competed in the same class as the ES, both in terms of exterior and interior dimensions. It wasn't until the TLX that Acura decided to take it down a class and position it more as a compact when the TSX bowed out. I guess if anything, it could steal away Accord Touring sales, seeing as how there are people cross-shopping the two, but with the higher profit margins and transaction costs of an Acura product vs a Honda product, would they mind?

BEAR-AvHistory

I read what you are saying & have no problem with it but miss any connection between the ES350, etc & the TLX in Acura's marketing program. The TLX is marketed against the Germans every time, all the time & no one else. They were selling against my 2004 330CI when I bought the 2006 TL. The 4G TL was a kill the Germans car from the get go Acura's management flat out said it. They retrenched with the TLX when the got their butt kicked & dropped 30,000 units a year in lost sales

Cars like the ES, Genesis, Infiniti etc do not exist in the world view of the Acura PR operation. Have said any numbers of times I am not against the car or brand, had spent my money on one, but think the marketing sucks big time in not selling to the cars strengths.

Why invite comparisons you cant win when there are sitter's out there you can clearly knock off?

SebringSilver

Acura marketing doesn’t actually attempt to take sales away from the German automakers. They associate their cars with the German cars so that existing Acura owners get the sensation that their brand has finally made it to the big league. It’s actually designed for retention, not acquisition. They simply don’t want any more of their customer base moving to Audi/BMW/MB.

fiatlux

I think you and I are in agreement. What I'm saying is that Acura should be pitting this as an ES alternative (assuming they could make the interior roomier), because frankly most Acura buyers (of which enthusiasts make up probably less than 1%) are more aligned with ES buyers than with BMW/Audi/Mercedes buyers.

mec30

The problem with the ES comparison is that the ES is completely outclassed in the handling department. The ES has no sporty aspirations, IMHO. I think Acura rightly believes that SH-AWD (even on the 1G) puts the car in a different category. There are the Jaguar XF and S60, but those aren't as aggressive as the rest of the sport sedan category. Realistically, I think it's expensive to get the kind of performance the germans have in that compact a size. Acura wanted to compete with them without the additional price premium. To that end they used double wishbone suspension over struts to match chassis dynamics (which takes up more space), they needed more room under the hood for a competitive power plant (the room in the 1G did not allow for an engine with enough performance), and they need more steel to get the structural rigidity they were looking for (hence the added weight). And I think they are competitive if you're only looking at certain metrics. I think the 10-Speed (at least in the Type S) is competitive. The AWD system is class leading. The engine is too large externally for it's output (forcing a larger design) but close enough that it can turn in times close to the competition (at least in comparison to Audi who appears to be going full force into electrification). I've sat in the A-Spec and the fit, finish, and materials are better than MB and just below BMW and Audi (close enough to be subjective w/r/t styling buttons are superior in the germans).

With that in mind, I think Acura's choosing the right competition but it's going to be up to the consumer whether they want to pay a slightly lower price for lower fuel economy, interior space, and bigger external size.

fiatlux

Hence why I said "a sportier, more performance oriented alternative to the ES350". Frankly it is too heavy and big to be competitive with the likes of the 3-series, and the interior is too small to be competitive with the 5-series. At this point it's not even that the car straddles two segments like a tweener; it has characteristics of both but those conflict with one another rather than enhance each other.

Nedmundo

I finally tested a new TLX yesterday (base SH-AWD), and while I think it's a very good car, I agree with this. The small interior doesn't bother me, because I rarely drive adults very far in the back seat and my immediate family members are all under 5' 4", but the huge exterior dimensions are a deal killer for me. I would need more seat time for full driving impressions, but overall I think it drives well. It's impressively stable and smooth, the SH-AWD masks the weight to some extent. The transmission seemed decent and it has enough power for my purposes, but the engine sound is pretty disappointing.

BEAR-AvHistory

Yeah, also bigger is not always better for some people. A lot of people can't understand why many 3/4 series drivers get royally pissed everytime the new generation gets bigger & fatter. 3's are as big or bigger than older 5's. Example my 2 seat Z4, based on the G series platform is bigger than my 4 seat 135is in every direction but wheelbase & length. On the length the 135IS is only 1.5" longer. Good news is they kept the weight down.

The 2011 135is is about an inch/inch1/2 of my 2004 330 Ci ZHP in most measurements. Fatter & Fatter every new generation.

Z4 M40i
Wheelbase (inches) 97.2
Length (inches) 170.7
Width, without mirrors (inches) 73.4
Height (inches) 51.4
Front Track Width (inches) 62.6
Rear Track Width (inches) 62.6
Weight 3457

135IS
Wheelbase 8inches) 104.7
Length (inches) 172.2
Width, without mirrors (inches) 68.8
Height (inches) 55.6
Front Track Width (inches) 58.0
Rear Track Width (inches) 59.3
Weight 3660

If you are going to pack on length & weight for a RWD look why couldn't they have snuck in 2" inches in the rear seat for leg room.