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Not sure what you like, but ...
my Texas dealer has 2020 Audi A4's at thousands-off to clear-out.
New 2021 Audi A4 has Quattro-AWD standard now and supposedly a new 12v mild-hybrid system.
2020/2021 Audi S4 if you want a AWD-V6 (starting at $50k)
There is also the A5/S5.
So you have Dynamic mode set to Sport, but why not put the transmission in Sport as well?
Because it does not really matter for 0-60 with this powertrain. The ECU senses the request for max power from the beginning, and essentially picks sport mapping for the transmission anyway.
The AWD video makes more sense and behaves the same way as RDX AWD. Personally I think 6.5 on a 15-mile car is good, because K20c tends to open up a little more with mileage. At least the number is noticeably better than the best RDX 0-60 run you can find on yotube.
The 1G TLX ZF9 in all its 2015 glory and splendor quirkiness didn't have a 2 second delay. Wow. Just wow.
The ZF9 in my 2020 TLX, while it's not a sporty tranny like a ZF8 or the Sport Hybrid 7 DCT, seems "normal" to me. I would have never noticed anything about it, save for its history and discussion.
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The 2015 was another story, but even that didn't have 2 seconds delays. It just jerked and had trouble remaining in a gear at lower speeds (20-30mph city driving). Occasionally the 2015 would delay 0.5s and then slam jerk. But no 2 second delay.
This is what I keep reiterating. I'm not saying that a vocal minority who purchased a 2018-20 TLX ZF9 didn't experience tranny gremlins, but I think there's a hangover mentality from the 2015-17 issues. No matter how good the 2.0T can be (as tuned in the Type-R), in this application, it's going to be a less satisfying experience vs the V6, especially considering the increased cost.
I went to one of the local dealerships today (OK local is a bit of a stretch but it was the only one within 50 miles to have a TLX on the lot) to test drive the new car. White SH-AWD Advanced. My impressions:
Not a fan of the Platinum White Pearl. I think Modern Steel Metallic or Apex Blue would look much better, but unfortunately the only ones they had on the lot were white.
The car looks noticeably bigger. I keep seeing the word "presence" being thrown around...I suppose that's one way to look at it. From the rear it doesn't actually look that big or wide, but from the front it definitely looks like it's a class bigger than the competition.
Interior of the Advanced package is really nice. They also had an A-Spec model with the red interior. Even in person I'm still not a fan of that red. But back to the Advanced interior, the materials all felt high quality and there was plenty of soft-touch stuff going on. The "leather" stitched dash actually feels higher quality than the real leather stitched dash in my Volvo. This isn't like a Hyundai interior that looks nice, but feels cheap. I know it's subjective, but other than the gauge cluster and infotainment system, I like this interior more than A4, 3-series, C-Class, and S60. It just feels more inviting.
The MID in the middle is larger than I had thought, but I still wish they would have went with a fully digital dash.
Infotainment feels a little snappier than in the RDX loaners I've had, but I'm still not a fan of the truetouch trackpad. I would take any of the competitors infotainment system (except for Lexus) over this one.
With the front seat adjusted for my height, rear legroom is virtually identical to that of the 1G. I can confirm that you can indeed move the front seat farther back than in the 1G. Rear legroom is terrible for its size, but it's about average when compared against the competition, just like for the 1G.
Ok now for the driving. Let me preface this by saying that I couldn't drive it like a loon during the test drive, but there were a few sweepers and corners I was able to take fairly aggressively.
Steering feel is great, turn-in is sharp and immediate, they did a good job with the steering responsiveness.
On simple turns, the SH-AWD does a great job of providing power-on traction. Tires would squeal like a pig even though I wasn't driving that aggressively, but the frontend never felt like it was going to wash out. SH-AWD good, tires bad bad bad.
On complex turns like an S or chicane, you really feel the weight of the car as it shifts around. The car doesn't feel unsettled, but you definitely feel more pronounced body roll. SH-AWD might be able to work its magic pulling you through a corner, but it can't beat physics when it comes to weight transfer.
In comfort mode, the suspension is supple and compliant. Not as soft as an ES350, but definitely softer than stock 1G ride. In sport mode, the suspension is firmed up noticeably, but I wish it were a bit firmer to help remove some of that body roll. Sport feels about as firm as the normal setting in my Volvo.
The pumped in engine noises...I'm conflicted. It doesn't sound bad...but it definitely sounds artificial.
The braking feel is really really good. Pedal travel is very short, almost like in an EV where the regen braking kicks in immediately when you press down on the brakes. Some might complain about it being touchy, but once you get used to it, going back to a regular braking setup is quite jarring how deep into the pedal travel you have to go before the brakes actually engage. I'm a big fan of this setup.
ELS system is good I guess. I'm not an audiophile so all this stuff is wasted on me. I can tell it's not bad, but I can't tell you how good it is.
Road and wind noise is about the same as the 1G TLX, which is quite good.
Over bumps and imperfections in the road, the car feels very solid, very European. Very 1G TLX like.
Now for the part I know you're all waiting for...
When you cruising along at slower speeds and mash the gas pedal, there indeed is quite a noticeable delay before the car actually accelerates forward, and for the first split second it really feels like either power is being pulled or something is slipping .
If you use the paddle shifters to get yourself into the right gear, there's no delay, although it doesn't feel like you have the full allotment of power immediately
If you're cruising at highway speeds when you mash the gas pedal, the transmission responds much quicker and the acceleration feels stronger.
In all other situations, the 10AT feels way better than the ZF9.
As I expected, the car pulls hard when everything is lined up (i.e. you're in the right gear, you're under 5000RPMs, etc.)
Turbo lag is minimal, mid-range torque is great, but the small turbo runs out of steam starting around 5000RPMs just like in the RDX.
Upshifts are fast, but the transmission doesn't respond to the paddles as quickly as I'd like, and downshifts are a little slow.
Basically if you've driven the RDX, it feels pretty much the same. I have a hard time believing the engineers spent much time making changes to the powertrain before dropping it into this car.
So what does this all mean? Well, for me the acceleration responsiveness thing isn't necessarily a deal-breaker because it seems to be a problem in just that one scenario (low speed cruising). Also, subpar 0-60 times I'm not too concerned about because the mid-range where you'll spend most of the time in the real world is strong. As a DD, I like this more than the J35, though at the track I'd prefer the J35. That said, the powertrain does feel average to slightly below average when compared to the competition. Yes, it makes the most advertised horsepower, but you wouldn't be able to tell by driving it. It just doesn't have that same sense of urgency or immediate power or oomph that the A4 and C300 has (haven't driven the new 330i yet). I still very much prefer the EA888 in the Audi. On the other hand, there's a lot to like about the rest of the car. As a car, it's pretty great. Even the backseat is OK; if you were OK with the 1G TLX, then you'll be OK with this. But would I buy it? If the powertrain performed as well as it does in the Accord 2.0T, yes. But unfortunately, the powertrain is just not up to par. It's a bummer, because I really do like the rest of the car save for the weight. It does so many things so well, and maybe my standards for performance are just unrealistically high, but if they could just replace this powertrain with the Audi's, it would be a no-brainer. As it currently stands...it's a good to great car, but as a sports sedan it's a mixed bag.
Sounds like it is just a mild tune and a set of performance tires away from greatness per your review and the reviews of a few others. It is a pity they couldn't fit the 7spd DCT from the RLX into this TLX, it may be the best Honda/Acura transmission I have ever tried. I used to have the 2.0L 2018 Accord, my issues with that drivetrain was that the lack of immediate power around town at low speeds and some loss of engine power due to higher outside temps; I will not go back to another 2.0L I4 turbo as a result of this experience, however.
As an aside, I saw and sat in a Phantom Violet Pearl Advance SH-AWD and while I could not comfortably sit behind myself, that interior looked and felt as luxurious as any Acura I have ever been in and the Phantom Violet Pearl exterior colour was outstanding, it looked black from afar on a cloudy day, but up close had just a gorgeous subtle veneer of royal purple.
Different chassis, different front suspension mechanics.
The 2021 TLX is riding on an all-new (= unproven) FWD Acura platform, and is also using the sporty double-wishbone front suspension; whereas the RDX is still using the plain old MacPherson strut front suspension.
So it is not out of the ordinary if the front ends of the above 2 vehicles behave differently under wide open throttle situations.
yes, almost all the turbo honda's are going into limp mode in a certain situation... passing in the rain at 70mph, the car goes into limp mode...
this applies to the Accord and the RDX.
if it was a one off, I would shrug it off....but MANY MANY RDX USERS are documenting their harrowing experience
Basically if you've driven the RDX, it feels pretty much the same. I have a hard time believing the engineers spent much time making changes to the powertrain before dropping it into this car.
So what does this all mean? Well, for me the acceleration responsiveness thing isn't necessarily a deal-breaker because it seems to be a problem in just that one scenario (low speed cruising). Also, subpar 0-60 times I'm not too concerned about because the mid-range where you'll spend most of the time in the real world is strong. As a DD, I like this more than the J35, though at the track I'd prefer the J35...As it currently stands...it's a good to great car, but as a sports sedan it's a mixed bag.
I hear what you're saying, and everyone's experience in a test drive is subjective. But for me, saying it drives like a RDX is not a glowing indorsement. All things considered, you might as well get a RDX.
In the NA J35, with no lag in normal or sport mode (at least with my ZF9 and my driving style), why is the 2.0T a better DD?
It might get my attention in a couple of years if they give it the Type-R tune.
Last edited by Carnage719; 09-27-2020 at 09:19 AM.
I hear what you're saying, and everyone's experience in a test drive is subjective. But for me, saying it drives like a RDX is not a glowing indorsement. All things considered, you might as well get a RDX.
In the NA J35, with no lag in normal or sport mode (at least with my ZF9 and my driving style), why is the 2.0T a better DD?
It might get my attention in a couple of years if they give it the Type-R tune.
because of mid-range torque...
the J35 makes peak torque at 6500RPM...the 2.0T makes torque at 1500RPM all the way to 3500RPM.
you cant argue engine architecture. these are the way the engines were built..characteristics of the engine.
Thanks for the review fiatlux. Customers will vote with their wallet. If this car was priced like the 1G it would probably move the needle a bit, however, with the price increase it will probably just sustain sales of 1G. I really don't see this car taking away sales from other brands.
I hear what you're saying, and everyone's experience in a test drive is subjective. But for me, saying it drives like a RDX is not a glowing indorsement. All things considered, you might as well get a RDX.
In the NA J35, with no lag in normal or sport mode (at least with my ZF9 and my driving style), why is the 2.0T a better DD?
It might get my attention in a couple of years if they give it the Type-R tune.
Better DD because it feels more powerful in the midrange which is more usable than at the top end. Also the 10AT is also much better in daily driving; aside form the random hard jerky shifts, the ZF9 is slow and soft, like it was designed for people with hemorrhoids. The 10AT in comparison for the most part is a lot firmer and quick with its downshifts, even if it’s never going to be mistaken for a ZF8 or even Acura’s own 8DCT from the 1G 4banger.
Fiatlux, have you driven or have the outgoing V6 TLX?
I would love to hear someone who has a V6 commenting on the drive of the new one
Lastly, did you see any tech versions? Nobody has a straight answer on if the tech has the leather dash.
Also, if the RDX is similar, would you prefer the RDX over this then? Only thing I think I would miss is the new ambient lighting which seems pretty cool
Fiatlux, have you driven or have the outgoing V6 TLX?
I would love to hear someone who has a V6 commenting on the drive of the new one
Lastly, did you see any tech versions? Nobody has a straight answer on if the tech has the leather dash.
Also, if the RDX is similar, would you prefer the RDX over this then? Only thing I think I would miss is the new ambient lighting which seems pretty cool
I've had the V6 as a loaner in both FWD and SH-AWD guise, but that's about it. I'd say that the J35 sounds better, has more at the top end, and is smoother at idle at at lower RPMs. At higher RPMs both are pretty smooth. The K20C is pretty smooth in terms of how the power comes on, but it can't match the J35 for how linearly it builds power.
No tech; they only had a A-Spec and Advance.
When I say the RDX is similar, I'm referring specifically to the powertrain. Obviously the way it handles, the way it rides, the way it feels on the inside, etc. is totally different. Both serve very different purposes; if you need the space, ground clearance, and utility of a crossover you're probably not going to consider the TLX, and if you want the handling of a sedan, you're probably not going to consider the RDX.
Beautiful afternoon here in Toronto, so I took a lazy Sunday drive to a local Acura dealership and check out the TLX myself, looks way better in person, it's a shame that it's such a slow car.
Its look good in person, roomier front seats than my 16 Maxima. Didn't drive it but will drive it one day, just to get a feel for the car, i know the Type S will be more enhanced. Interior is nice and very solid feel in the inside. placement of the center stack flow nicely and slimmer than the Maxima. Back seats will not be used for anything but bags. This a four door coupe for the bigger people like myself, but the front legroom and hip area is good.
Better DD because it feels more powerful in the midrange which is more usable than at the top end. Also the 10AT is also much better in daily driving; aside form the random hard jerky shifts, the ZF9 is slow and soft, like it was designed for people with hemorrhoids. The 10AT in comparison for the most part is a lot firmer and quick with its downshifts, even if it’s never going to be mistaken for a ZF8 or even Acura’s own 8DCT from the 1G 4banger.
I strongly disagree with you there, and again, that's just jumping on the bandwagon of dislike for the ZF9 and an unfair characterization. Anyone who's experienced this type of performance with the ZF9 should be upset, but that's not my experience. In fact, it's quite the opposite. The biggest problem is the drive-by-wire programming doesn't have direct pedal to throttle body correlation, but that can be remedied by a Ktuner or Sprintbooster...also highly documented on the forum.
the J35 makes peak torque at 6500RPM...the 2.0T makes torque at 1500RPM all the way to 3500RPM.
you cant argue engine architecture. these are the way the engines were built..characteristics of the engine.
Ok. I guess that's why I've never been a fan of turbo charging. I like linear vs. punchy power delivery. I guess I'm a dying breed because I'll take a NA V6 over a 4cyl turbo any day.
I strongly disagree with you there, and again, that's just jumping on the bandwagon of dislike for the ZF9 and an unfair characterization. Anyone who's experienced this type of performance with the ZF9 should be upset, but that's not my experience. In fact, it's quite the opposite. The biggest problem is the drive-by-wire programming doesn't have direct pedal to throttle body correlation, but that can be remedied by a Ktuner or Sprintbooster...also highly documented on the forum.
Jumping on the bandwagon? I’ve been riding the horse pulling that wagon ever since I got a chance to drive it at the 2014 LA Auto Show. My dislike for it has only strengthened every time I get it as a loaner, to the point that I’d even take an ILX over the V6 TLX.
Jumping on the bandwagon? I’ve been riding the horse pulling that wagon ever since I got a chance to drive it at the 2014 LA Auto Show. My dislike for it has only strengthened every time I get it as a loaner, to the point that I’d even take an ILX over the V6 TLX.
I guess you and the guy with the forum name Honda430 (I think) are riding tandem on that horse. I'm glad my ZF9 doesn't reflect your opinion. Then again, my opinion of the 2.0T/10AT echos your hate for the ZF9, also backed up by loaner drives.
Jumping on the bandwagon? I’ve been riding the horse pulling that wagon ever since I got a chance to drive it at the 2014 LA Auto Show. My dislike for it has only strengthened every time I get it as a loaner, to the point that I’d even take an ILX over the V6 TLX.
My experience with J35 + 9AT is also from a loaner. I think I walked away with the same opinion, that the 9AT was slow and unpeasant from driving dynamic point of view. The thing I hated most was the freewheeling sensation occasionally when it downshifted. I did not have the car long enough to figure the details, and to be honest I would not bother. It was an ok transmission for casual driving. Anytime you push the car, the transmission falls seriously behind the rest of the car, and 1G TLX was not athletic to begin with.
This was on a pre-MMC TLX, so maybe Acura had tamed the beast afterwards.
Sounds like it is just a mild tune and a set of performance tires away from greatness per your review and the reviews of a few others. It is a pity they couldn't fit the 7spd DCT from the RLX into this TLX, it may be the best Honda/Acura transmission I have ever tried. I used to have the 2.0L 2018 Accord, my issues with that drivetrain was that the lack of immediate power around town at low speeds and some loss of engine power due to higher outside temps; I will not go back to another 2.0L I4 turbo as a result of this experience, however.
As an aside, I saw and sat in a Phantom Violet Pearl Advance SH-AWD and while I could not comfortably sit behind myself, that interior looked and felt as luxurious as any Acura I have ever been in and the Phantom Violet Pearl exterior colour was outstanding, it looked black from afar on a cloudy day, but up close had just a gorgeous subtle veneer of royal purple.
I currently have an Accord 2.0 sport and I recently test drove the TLX and the powertrain performed the same as in the Accord IMO. Yes, the Accord has the same delay with downshifting at slow speeds, but I reduce this delay significantly by keeping the Accord in "Sport" 100% in city driving and 80% in highway driving, I only put it in "Normal" mode on a highway when there is little traffic and I don't have to do any passing.
For those who state the powertrain can be dangerous and possibly cause an accident due to the delay in acceleration, for those I would recommend you take a driving course refresher.
Just like others, I was let down with the 2.0 engine in the TLX, it is truly the base engine in this second generation TLX due to the weight of the vehicle and the upcoming Type S is just the true replacement for the prior V6.
IMO if Acura wanted to have better competing 0-60 times, they could have added a "launch" mode to the SH-AWD models.
IMO if Acura wanted to have better competing 0-60 times, they could have added a "launch" mode to the SH-AWD models.
Or they could have cut off some of those useless 7 inches extra to save a few pounds. Based on 2G's length, I don't think I would be able to fit it in my garage. If I have to keep my car outside, may as well bite the bullet and get a crossover and be over with it.
Originally Posted by Jrvtecaccord;16635137
For those who state the powertrain can be [i
dangerous[/i] and possibly cause an accident due to the delay in acceleration, for those I would recommend you take a driving course refresher.
This comment doesn't even make any sense. If someone is about to hit ME aka the driver, and I am able to gas it and avoid the accident, why would the driver who avoided the accident need to take a driving course refresher?!? The excuses for these crappy modern Honda/Acura products are mindboggling to me and how about we get the solid driving dynamics from a modern car that we are paying good money for?
My experience with J35 + 9AT is also from a loaner. I think I walked away with the same opinion, that the 9AT was slow and unpeasant from driving dynamic point of view. The thing I hated most was the freewheeling sensation occasionally when it downshifted. I did not have the car long enough to figure the details, and to be honest I would not bother. It was an ok transmission for casual driving. Anytime you push the car, the transmission falls seriously behind the rest of the car, and 1G TLX was not athletic to begin with.
This was on a pre-MMC TLX, so maybe Acura had tamed the beast afterwards.
My 2018 A-Spec is my first Acura, but my second experience with the J35 as I also had a 2015 Accord Coupe. With my dislike of the 2.0T/10AT and the obivious hate for the ZF9, my conclusion is Honda/Acura aren't very good at engine/transmission combinations or transmission programming.
Funny thing is, I chose the TLX V6 over an A5 Sportback because I though it outperformed the A5's numb steering, isolated from the road cabin, and no performance excitement. I wanted the S5 Sportback, but I wasn't willing to spend $60K.
My 2018 A-Spec is my first Acura, but my second experience with the J35 as I also had a 2015 Accord Coupe. With my dislike of the 2.0T/10AT and the obivious hate for the ZF9, my conclusion is Honda/Acura aren't very good at engine/transmission combinations or transmission programming.
Funny thing is, I chose the TLX V6 over an A5 Sportback because I though it outperformed the A5's numb steering, isolated from the road cabin, and no performance excitement. I wanted the S5 Sportback, but I wasn't willing to spend $60K.
Honda/Acura has never really been very good at building automatic transmissions. At best, they are acceptable, and at worst you have some made of glass and paper mache like the early 2000s Accord V6.
The best AT trans I’ve seen them offer is the 8DCT in the ILX and TLX, but even with this one they admitted that it can’t handle the torque of the V6, so time will tell how durable it will be in the long run.
So, going for a test drive soon.
I need to know how to set the TLX for the best throttle response, fastest transmission shifting, best steering, surest SH-AWD, and firmest suspension.
Do I just turn the Dynamic Mode knob to Sport (and that sets everything possible to best/Sport)?
So if you like everything Sport, then Individual Mode is really only for changing the associated Lighting-color ?
Am I correct that Sport-Mode also turns-off Auto Idle Stop? (I should see a circled-A-OFF in instrument panel)
Honda/Acura has never really been very good at building automatic transmissions. At best, they are acceptable, and at worst you have some made of glass and paper mache like the early 2000s Accord V6.
Funny comment, but I never had a problem with mine ( unless you mean the 6G ) . Maybe I just got lucky.
Just looking at all the old gen Accords ... man that 9G Accord (2013-2017) was sharp lookin. Best of the bunch I think.
My 2018 A-Spec is my first Acura, but my second experience with the J35 as I also had a 2015 Accord Coupe. With my dislike of the 2.0T/10AT and the obivious hate for the ZF9, my conclusion is Honda/Acura aren't very good at engine/transmission combinations or transmission programming.
Funny thing is, I chose the TLX V6 over an A5 Sportback because I though it outperformed the A5's numb steering, isolated from the road cabin, and no performance excitement. I wanted the S5 Sportback, but I wasn't willing to spend $60K.
I’m with you. While I can afford a $60k vehicle there’s no way that I’d buy one. I always find it a little weird when folks talk about dropping that kind of coin on an auto like it’s something reasonable to do.
I’m with you. While I can afford a $60k vehicle there’s no way that I’d buy one. I always find it a little weird when folks talk about dropping that kind of coin on an auto like it’s something reasonable to do.
Life’s short, and if you have the money, you can’t take it with you when you die so why not
I liked my 15 Accord Coupe's performance, but couldn't get past the lack of AWD after having it on the previous car I traded in for it. I also hated the slick leather, and the premium sound was anything but premium. But it did look good:
Better DD because it feels more powerful in the midrange which is more usable than at the top end. Also the 10AT is also much better in daily driving; aside form the random hard jerky shifts, the ZF9 is slow and soft, like it was designed for people with hemorrhoids. The 10AT in comparison for the most part is a lot firmer and quick with its downshifts, even if it’s never going to be mistaken for a ZF8 or even Acura’s own 8DCT from the 1G 4banger.
I had the 2015 1G TLX and the transmission was jerky and slow...it was crap. After I dumped that car, I got 2018 ASPEC and can tell you that the transmission is a lot better. Yes, it still lags at times but the car is way more responsive as compared to the RDX. I don't care how quick that 10 spd is, the ECU cuts off the power in the RDX and it's FK*N LAG city. This happens at every take off. If you need to mash the pedal to get out of a car coming at you this would feel like an ETERNITY. If the 2nd Gen TLX has the same set up, which based on TSP review, it does, it's WAY worse than 1G TLX. Just another factor why the car is so damn slow. This is a Sport sedan that can't even pass an Odyssey going to a soccer practice.....
09-26-2020, 07:35 PM
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I'm glad my ZF9 doesn't reflect your opinion. Then again, my opinion of the 2.0T/10AT echos your hate for the ZF9, also backed up by loaner drives.
