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Yes. And that goes for me as well. Honda literally WILL NOT stand behind their products anymore. After sale support, from service advisor (who's just a franchise employed salesman anyway) to service manager, to general manager, to regional rep, to Honda technical line, to warranty rep (I could talk about this "guy" for hours, you think you know sleaze...you don't, not until you meet this person)....to corporate useless customer support, to opening claims, etc...As much as I love my Accord 2.0T 6MT that has been (knock on wood) fault-free for over a year, I am simply done with them. They're not an honest and ethical company anymore. I don't feel like getting into all of this honestly.
To be fair, they never were really an honest and ethical company. In recent memory, there's the Takata scandal, and in the 90s there was the Accord bribery scandal: https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...gance-accords/
We've all just overlooked their piss-poor customer service and after-sales experience because historically, we've never had to interact with them after the sale. Now that their quality has diminished, we're starting to see their dark side.
I really like this review. I liked how they were driving. It seemed pretty quick and didn’t have the lag. Sport mode seemed good. They said drives unlike any TLX ever made.
Man this is confusing
These guys are pretty good. I watch them often
I can tell you this: there is something wrong with the car StraighPipe reviewed. The delay in downshift should never be more than 2 seconds in the worst case. The wormy feeling also is not normal. Yes SH-AWD can create this sensation but only when the steering input and/or throttle input is not gradual.
That car needs a electronics rest or has ground issue.
I can tell you this: there is something wrong with the car StraighPipe reviewed. The delay in downshift should never be more than 2 seconds in the worst case. The wormy feeling also is not normal. Yes SH-AWD can create this sensation but only when the steering input and/or throttle input is not gradual.
That car needs a electronics rest or has ground issue.
Yes, it is a bit weird. I’ve watched or read at least 15 or more reviews and they are the only ones that voiced that complaint. It’s not like what they were complaining about was a minor issue. If the response was that laggy or the handling that bad everyone who drove the car should have noticed it.
I can tell you this: there is something wrong with the car StraighPipe reviewed. The delay in downshift should never be more than 2 seconds in the worst case. The wormy feeling also is not normal. Yes SH-AWD can create this sensation but only when the steering input and/or throttle input is not gradual.
That car needs a electronics rest or has ground issue.
Car and Driver also reported the trans as laggy:
"The 10-speed serves admirably across the Honda and Acura lineups, but the programming and responses aren't much different here than they are in, say, an Odyssey minivan. And its lazy reaction to paddle inputs and refusal to hold gears stand out as detriments."
Car and Driver also reported the trans as laggy:
"The 10-speed serves admirably across the Honda and Acura lineups, but the programming and responses aren't much different here than they are in, say, an Odyssey minivan. And its lazy reaction to paddle inputs and refusal to hold gears stand out as detriments."
I spent two days with Mark (Savage) and Jack (Singapore) filming my Accord. I can tell you that he has had it up to here with Honda/Acura and he was their biggest fan and advocate. Maybe I'm spilling more than I should but he told me Honda has started to avoid him because he won't play the ball like others (redline, straight, throttle, Doug, etc.) when it comes to praise and hype. They didn't want to give him the new Accord because he wouldn't agree to it. So I gave him mine. Also, reason why he did RDX in dead of winter was because Acura was mad at him for not agreeing to same type of hype so they gave him the car in January.
The intro we shot is nothing what we shot in the shop in front of my car that didn't make the final cut. There were some brutal harsh words about how Honda has failed us but for the sake of his relationship with Honda, we cut it out. In return, his Honda rep Jessica would contact me to see what we can work out. Nothing came from it so Honda played us, again.
I remember watching this review. That's awesome it was you and your Accord.
When I worked for Acura in the PDI and CPO section, corporate sent the dealership a new RLX which was going to be reviewed for the NE section. I was bs'n with a co-worker in sales and asked "so what's the deal with the RLX, who reviews it?" he said "anyone that will do a positive review, that what corp wants". It's not just Acura, it's every single brand doing the same crap.
I can tell you this: there is something wrong with the car StraighPipe reviewed. The delay in downshift should never be more than 2 seconds in the worst case. The wormy feeling also is not normal. Yes SH-AWD can create this sensation but only when the steering input and/or throttle input is not gradual.
That car needs a electronics rest or has ground issue.
Owning a 3G RDX and seeing as it’s the same power train, I can say that this is “normal” for the Acura 2.0T. I don’t know about the wormy feeling, but the lag in power and sometimes delay in downshifting is very much real.
Honestly, really thinking about it, as negative as I am, I do commend Acura for trying to move towards being performance oriented. But, the biggest killer is really what AoA talks about. With the new pricing, Acura simply doesn’t have the value advantage over its rivals anymore. Even tho it’s a good car, I just don’t know if it can overcome the fact that it doesn’t have the brand prestige while being priced much closer to its rivals and not performing as well. Especially in what seems to be a rebuilding of the brand, sometimes you need to take a loss before you can hit it big. Get people into or back into the brand. Yea I dunno ... maybe it’s just me. Even if it’s because Acura understands people expect to get thousands off sticker, that’s a terrible sales plan as many people are turned off by the practice of haggling for a price. I just don’t see how it’s going to increase sales over the previous gen. I guess we’ll see this time next year.
Outside of the red gauges it's pretty nice at night...the red gauges clash too much for my liking. Looking forward to seeing what the other trims look like at night.
Outside of the red gauges it's pretty nice at night...the red gauges clash too much for my liking. Looking forward to seeing what the other trims look like at night.
Cause nobody sits in a back seat that has the seat all the way back leaving no room to sit. Real world conditions, obviously the person in the front seat would move the seat up
Cause nobody sits in a back seat that has the seat all the way back leaving no room to sit. Real world conditions, obviously the person in the front seat would move the seat up
Combined legroom appears to be the average with the segment, so I think it's just a matter of Acura allowing you to move the front seats back further than other cars.
That said, the front seatbacks look really really thick. I can't help but to think that may be intruding into the rear legroom as well; other cars have seats that are substantially thinner.
The Michelin Primacy tires on the TLX are not really "economy" tires. They are pretty expensive. Michelin Pilot Sport tires (which are not much more expensive) would handle better, but would not be as smooth or last as long.
That's what I thought.
I run Michelin Primacy MXV4 Tires 205/60R16-92V (V-Rated is 149mph) on my
2004 Accord V6 EX-L (240hp)
And they run fine. They were not cheap. I know just a thinner All-Season Luxury Performance Touring tire on smaller rims, but still ... I run them fast and hard in dry/hot/rain (and even some ice/snow) and they perform as expected. This is the second-set (the Honda original ones were same ... P205/60R16-91V).
"Wrong tires" seems like a cop-out to me. This sporty sedan is suppose to be turn-key equipped. The tires installed on shipping-models should have been tested/validated by Acura engineers and drivers on FWD and SH-AWD models.
If someone make the last-minute decision to not put-in a real-spare-tire ... and install the run-flat versions (without re-validation), that's a FAIL on their part.
Combined legroom appears to be the average with the segment, so I think it's just a matter of Acura allowing you to move the front seats back further than other cars.
That said, the front seatbacks look really really thick. I can't help but to think that may be intruding into the rear legroom as well; other cars have seats that are substantially thinner.
It's lurched but that doesn't help.
For reference, this is Accord with front seats all the way back:
Owning a 3G RDX and seeing as it’s the same power train, I can say that this is “normal” for the Acura 2.0T. I don’t know about the wormy feeling, but the lag in power and sometimes delay in downshifting is very much real.
Honestly, really thinking about it, as negative as I am, I do commend Acura for trying to move towards being performance oriented. But, the biggest killer is really what AoA talks about. With the new pricing, Acura simply doesn’t have the value advantage over its rivals anymore. Even tho it’s a good car, I just don’t know if it can overcome the fact that it doesn’t have the brand prestige while being priced much closer to its rivals and not performing as well. Especially in what seems to be a rebuilding of the brand, sometimes you need to take a loss before you can hit it big. Get people into or back into the brand. Yea I dunno ... maybe it’s just me. Even if it’s because Acura understands people expect to get thousands off sticker, that’s a terrible sales plan as many people are turned off by the practice of haggling for a price. I just don’t see how it’s going to increase sales over the previous gen. I guess we’ll see this time next year.
I'm going to start off by saying how great of a car this looks and it may drive a little better than the previous gen. But...
I feel like what Acura really needed was something more innovative to put a mark. 'Looks' and 'talk' can only get you so far and we all can see that right now. The 2016 Precision Concept Cockpit showed that they were working towards autonomous driving and AR fused with a new digital gauge cluster. Revealing something like this on the 2021 TLX would have elevated Acura up, much more with this redesign. But here we are, talking about a car that has not brought us much new tech other than that existing Infotainment unit and power train from the RDX. The Germans despite being higher in price (more on this below) have the tech to make up for that. BMW with their insane parking tech, Audi with their safety Pre Sense technology, etc... What the TLX has for tech is very basic now compared to the Germans as every other car in the industry now essentially has the same tech. The Germans go the extra mile though. i.e. You got LED ambient lights on a door? Okay lets use that to warn other people that your door is open.
Acura did not have to go this marketing direction, as many other people of stated, they should've let the car speak for itself. "Less Talk, More Drive"? Ideally you should want both, Acura, common.
The Germans got features/tech that are more innovative. They had the price difference between Acura to make up for that, but as AoA said, not anymore. Not for this TLX. The prices are too close. In my eyes, Acura is starting to look less like a good bargain and more of a rip-off when we start to bring tech and price into the conversation. I see why Alex wanted more time with it.
Last edited by Jiten Patel; 09-25-2020 at 02:12 PM.
It’s about the same on the RDX. And Apple CarPlay will disconnect itself for no reason for 3 or 4 minutes and then reconnect afterward. It’s the most infuriating thing if you happen to be in the middle of an important phone call.
See, this may be an okayish car and that may be fine with some people. But to stand out in this segment, you really need to be great in at least one or two categories (high class interior, interior room, tech, performance, fuel economy, value, anything really). It doesn't need to be the best thing since sliced bread, but it needs something that will draw people in. I don't see any category where it excels above the others. And in that way, it becomes an also ran especially after a year or two on the market
See, this may be an okayish car and that may be fine with some people. But to stand out in this segment, you really need to be great in at least one or two categories (high class interior, interior room, tech, performance, fuel economy, value, anything really). It doesn't need to be the best thing since sliced bread, but it needs something that will draw people in. I don't see any category where it excels above the others. And in that way, it becomes an also ran especially after a year or two on the market
This car is the best at being the cheapest, the best at being the biggest externally, the best at having the most advertised horsepower, the best at having the most number of gears, and the best at having SH-AWD whereas all the other cars have not-SH-AWD.
I jest, but I will say: subjectively to me, this car looks better than the competition (aside from the wheels). Have to give them props for that.
This car is the best at being the cheapest, the best at being the biggest externally, the best at having the most advertised horsepower, the best at having the most number of gears, and the best at having SH-AWD whereas all the other cars have not-SH-AWD.
I jest, but I will say: subjectively to me, this car looks better than the competition (aside from the wheels). Have to give them props for that.
I forget if it was the RDX or TLX, but there was a review about the "new" 10AT in the vehicle ... the review went something like, "The 10-speed automatic has one more gear than the problematic, outgoing ZF9 transmission, and two more gears than the ZF 8-speed automatic found in most of its German competitors." Like, holy crap ... do they let just anyone write for car reviewers now? Having more gears is pointless if they're not utilized properly. It's a wonder that ZF is a renowned automatic transmission builder, with the 8-speed being in everything from silky smooth Rolls Royce's to Hellcats and BMW M5/M8's. Yet, the transverse variant ZF9 was a debacle in the Acura. Apparently, ZF blamed Honda for its awful programming of the transmission ... which I tend to believe. Even when they're given a great transmission, they still manage to screw it up.
The ZF9 was pretty bad in FCA and JLR products too, not just Acura. I’ll call a spade a spade, but this one isn’t on Acura’s implementation; rather it’s on Acura for choosing such a lousy transmission in the first place. Volvo even said the reason they went with the Aisin 8AT was because the ZF9 was unsatisfactory.
Acura put a transmission built for efficiency and packaging into a car meant to provide “that kind of thrill”. What a shocker that it didn’t turn out well.
I remember watching this review. That's awesome it was you and your Accord.
When I worked for Acura in the PDI and CPO section, corporate sent the dealership a new RLX which was going to be reviewed for the NE section. I was bs'n with a co-worker in sales and asked "so what's the deal with the RLX, who reviews it?" he said "anyone that will do a positive review, that what corp wants". It's not just Acura, it's every single brand doing the same crap.
I have a sneaking suspicion that The StraightPipes isn't going to be invited back to Honda launches with this review. Most recently, their review of the Passport seemed more like an ad than a review. Lots of people felt the same. I guess they're listening ...
In almost all their reviews, they pull their punches while wearing kiddie gloves if they have something negative to say. In this case, they put on a pair of brass knuckles and were throwing some serious haymakers.
The ZF9 was pretty bad in FCA and JLR products too, not just Acura. I’ll call a spade a spade, but this one isn’t on Acura’s implementation; rather it’s on Acura for choosing such a lousy transmission in the first place. Volvo even said the reason they went with the Aisin 8AT was because the ZF9 was unsatisfactory.
Acura put a transmission built for efficiency and packaging into a car meant to provide “that kind of thrill”. What a shocker that it didn’t turn out well.
That's true. The ZF9 has gotten complaints in many Jeep and Chrysler products. I've driven a couple rentals that had it and it was not much better in those applications. I don't know how these types of contracts work with automakers and their suppliers, but it surprises me that many continued to put the ZF9 in newly released products even after the widely known complaints. I assume there must have been some quota to meet before ending the contract. Why else would they potentially sabotage your own products unless they are truly deaf and have blinders on.
See, this may be an okayish car and that may be fine with some people. But to stand out in this segment, you really need to be great in at least one or two categories (high class interior, interior room, tech, performance, fuel economy, value, anything really). It doesn't need to be the best thing since sliced bread, but it needs something that will draw people in. I don't see any category where it excels above the others. And in that way, it becomes an also ran especially after a year or two on the market
Yeah, this jack-of-all-trades approach where they elevate a little bit of each category is going to bite them in the ass. And judging by the reception of the vehicle, it probably already has. The problem is, this elevation of what they've done on the 2G TLX is basically on par with what the Europeans already did in the early 2010s. Acura is kind of stuck in this chicken and egg situation. If they want to elevate themselves to the level of the Germans, their vehicles become a lot more expensive. But people have been so used to Acura being a entry level luxury marque that they rather just go to the Germans if Acura commands too high of a premium. Just look at the number of people in this thread that won't bother with Type-S if the asking price is knocking at the M340i doorsteps. I'm one of those people. If the price is close enough, I rather just go German.
Owning a 3G RDX and seeing as it’s the same power train, I can say that this is “normal” for the Acura 2.0T. I don’t know about the wormy feeling, but the lag in power and sometimes delay in downshifting is very much real.
Honestly, really thinking about it, as negative as I am, I do commend Acura for trying to move towards being performance oriented. But, the biggest killer is really what AoA talks about. With the new pricing, Acura simply doesn’t have the value advantage over its rivals anymore. Even tho it’s a good car, I just don’t know if it can overcome the fact that it doesn’t have the brand prestige while being priced much closer to its rivals and not performing as well. Especially in what seems to be a rebuilding of the brand, sometimes you need to take a loss before you can hit it big. Get people into or back into the brand. Yea I dunno ... maybe it’s just me. Even if it’s because Acura understands people expect to get thousands off sticker, that’s a terrible sales plan as many people are turned off by the practice of haggling for a price. I just don’t see how it’s going to increase sales over the previous gen. I guess we’ll see this time next year.
Keep in mind I only said delay should not be more than two seconds, I did not say no delay. The stock tune has a delay under certain conditions, for sure, but up to two second is what I feel on my RDX before FlashPro, and it was only under re-acceleration after the car has slowed down to <20mph.
I have a sneaking suspicion that The StraightPipes isn't going to be invited back to Honda launches with this review. Most recently, their review of the Passport seemed more like an ad than a review. Lots of people felt the same. I guess they're listening ...
Won't be surprised.. Nothing wrong with doing an honest review. If you're getting paid under the table to say what they want you to say, then dishonestly only takes you so far, unless you're in politics..
I'm sure StraightPipes isn't going to be beat over Acura or Honda not allowing them to review their vehicles. They should take more after Mark (Savagegeese) and be honest about it.
Won't be surprised.. Nothing wrong with doing an honest review. If you're getting paid under the table to say what they want you to say, then dishonestly only takes you so far, unless you're in politics..
I'm sure StraightPipes isn't going to be beat over Acura or Honda not allowing them to review their vehicles. They should take more after Mark (Savagegeese) and be honest about it.
They may lose car company events, but they gain in youtube views and viewer trust. I think I would feel much better to say whatever I want than to be scared to upset company just because of one word.
Raiti just released his review (he got his from a dealership, not the media event). At 17:12 he does an acceleration test, and there's a sizeable delay before the car takes off (at least in normal mode). Seems like he got the same type of car the TSP guys got. About 1.5-2 seconds before the car starts moving. At 18:22 he does it in sport mode...a little better but still pretty sizable. Nowhere close to a ZF8.
Yikes, when even the staunchest Acura defenders are starting to come back down to earth, we know something is amiss.
Well, let's look on the good side. Acura has been pretty good at building crossovers, so maybe the new MDX will live up to the hype.
Originally Posted by fiatlux
Raiti just released his review (he got his from a dealership, not the media event). At 17:12 he does an acceleration test, and there's a sizeable delay before the car takes off (at least in normal mode). Seems like he got the same type of car the TSP guys got. About 1.5-2 seconds before the car starts moving. At 18:22 he does it in sport mode...a little better but still pretty sizable. Nowhere close to a ZF8.
Raiti just released his review (he got his from a dealership, not the media event). At 17:12 he does an acceleration test, and there's a sizeable delay before the car takes off (at least in normal mode). Seems like he got the same type of car the TSP guys got. About 1.5-2 seconds before the car starts moving. At 18:22 he does it in sport mode...a little better but still pretty sizable. Nowhere close to a ZF8.
How can this guy not be positive? He's getting it from a dealer, leaving the dealers phone number, and giving you what guy to ask for. Obviously he won't trash it
He even said " this is the tech AND advance package " Doesn't even know the car
The fact that he literally completely ignored the 2 second lag before moving, and calling it smooth shifting is why I can't take it serious.
Terrible review, cause its obviously not serious.
Sport mode is an improvement though. Not as delayed. I would be driving in sport most of the time anyway
Last edited by AcuraFan1980; 09-25-2020 at 04:48 PM.
See, this may be an okayish car and that may be fine with some people. But to stand out in this segment, you really need to be great in at least one or two categories (high class interior, interior room, tech, performance, fuel economy, value, anything really). It doesn't need to be the best thing since sliced bread, but it needs something that will draw people in. I don't see any category where it excels above the others. And in that way, it becomes an also ran especially after a year or two on the market
I think you hit the nail on the head. Just being competitive isn't enough; for sustained sales success it needs to be better than the current competition because those cars are going to be getting refreshed/redesigned soon. The G20 3-series has been out for a couple years now and should be seeing an LCI facelift within a couple years, the W206 C-Class is expected to come out next year, and the B10 A4 should be out a year after that. They need to aim beyond where these cars currently are, especially if it's good enough to start taking market share away from them.
How can this guy not be positive? He's getting it from a dealer, leaving the dealers phone number, and giving you what guy to ask for. Obviously he won't trash it
He even said " this is the tech AND advance package " Doesn't even know the car
The fact that he literally completely ignored the 2 second lag before moving, and calling it smooth shifting is why I can't take it serious.
Terrible review, cause its obviously not serious.
Sport mode is an improvement though. Not as delayed
This is why I don't really care to listen to what they have to say, but instead look for other things like responsiveness, body roll, etc. that are impossible to hide. Some (many?) of these reviews are essentially manufacturer or dealership sponsored ads, but the nice thing is that their marketing and advertising department don't make any edits to the footage, which is why things like that slow transmission response is on there plain as day for us to see.
That's true. The ZF9 has gotten complaints in many Jeep and Chrysler products. I've driven a couple rentals that had it and it was not much better in those applications. I don't know how these types of contracts work with automakers and their suppliers, but it surprises me that many continued to put the ZF9 in newly released products even after the widely known complaints. I assume there must have been some quota to meet before ending the contract. Why else would they potentially sabotage your own products unless they are truly deaf and have blinders on.
You got to remember that the head of the Acura division when the TLX was developed was formerly a top exec at Chrysler. Who knows he may have pushed the ZF9 relationship with the promise of exceptional cost saving. As it turned out I think he left within a year of the cars introduction. I’ve no doubt they stuck with that transmission until they could develop and produce in volume their own 10sp.
You got to remember that the head of the Acura division when the TLX was developed was formerly a top exec at Chrysler. Who knows he may have pushed the ZF9 relationship with the promise of exceptional cost saving. As he turned out I think he left within a year of the cars introduction. I’ve no doubt they stuck with that transmission until they could develop and produce in volume their own 10sp.
Didn't Honda also use this same transmission in the Pilot, Odyssey, Passport, and Ridgeline?
09-25-2020, 12:39 PM
