Turbo Kit for Acura TL '04-'08
#4401
18psi
iTrader: (7)
Also, the launch is much better now since we kept the a/f at 14 up to 3000 instead of pegging 10.0 at the line.
I have time tomorrow so Im going to play with the brake pedal switch.
#4402
18psi
iTrader: (7)
Bad news for the TL. This is same post from my misfires thread
I was getting misfires only while idling. Did the prelim stuff. Cleaned plugs, swapped coils etc.
Then I did a compression test
Cylinders 1-5 were all around 160psi +/- 3 and held consistently. No leaks
Cylinder 6 had 0. Yes Zero. I put a little oil in the cylinder and re-tested. Compression was 30psi and held. Misfires on cylinder 6 only after I drove home.
I should of known something was going on since last week b.c my catch can had filled up EXTREMELY quick. It is a small can and usually takes about a month to get 1/2 full. It took about a week to get 3/4 full.
So I guess we are looking at a cracked ringland. This would explain why the vacuum didnt change.
I guess we atleast know the limits of the pistons on a j32 now. Ill definitely blame this on my increase in boost making well over 400whp. Figure 20% drivetrain loss and we are looking at close to 500 crank hp. No problems for 3 months prior to this with 350 to the wheels.
So Im deciding on my options. Do I swap in 6 new oem pistons and turn the boost down? Honestly, I really dont want to. I want to go up, not down
So I think for the time being the car will be out of service until I get a set of custom pistons from Rodney
I was getting misfires only while idling. Did the prelim stuff. Cleaned plugs, swapped coils etc.
Then I did a compression test
Cylinders 1-5 were all around 160psi +/- 3 and held consistently. No leaks
Cylinder 6 had 0. Yes Zero. I put a little oil in the cylinder and re-tested. Compression was 30psi and held. Misfires on cylinder 6 only after I drove home.
I should of known something was going on since last week b.c my catch can had filled up EXTREMELY quick. It is a small can and usually takes about a month to get 1/2 full. It took about a week to get 3/4 full.
So I guess we are looking at a cracked ringland. This would explain why the vacuum didnt change.
I guess we atleast know the limits of the pistons on a j32 now. Ill definitely blame this on my increase in boost making well over 400whp. Figure 20% drivetrain loss and we are looking at close to 500 crank hp. No problems for 3 months prior to this with 350 to the wheels.
So Im deciding on my options. Do I swap in 6 new oem pistons and turn the boost down? Honestly, I really dont want to. I want to go up, not down
So I think for the time being the car will be out of service until I get a set of custom pistons from Rodney
#4404
Safety Car
Sorry to hear this Bert.
Please check the V6 forum. They have a wealth of info on building-up the J engine with performance parts.
Copy and paste this link into your browser.
Acurazine blocks this link.
So, this is why I must disguise it with the red X.
Remove the red X before submitting.
http://www.v6Xperformance.net/forums/
Please check the V6 forum. They have a wealth of info on building-up the J engine with performance parts.
Copy and paste this link into your browser.
Acurazine blocks this link.
So, this is why I must disguise it with the red X.
Remove the red X before submitting.
http://www.v6Xperformance.net/forums/
#4406
18psi
iTrader: (7)
Sorry to hear this Bert.
Please check the V6 forum. They have a wealth of info on building-up the J engine with performance parts.
Copy and paste this link into your browser.
Acurazine blocks this link.
So, this is why I must disguise it with the red X.
Remove the red X before submitting.
http://www.v6Xperformance.net/forums/
Please check the V6 forum. They have a wealth of info on building-up the J engine with performance parts.
Copy and paste this link into your browser.
Acurazine blocks this link.
So, this is why I must disguise it with the red X.
Remove the red X before submitting.
http://www.v6Xperformance.net/forums/
#4407
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (18)
You can only street tune it so much before a dyno is needed to fine tune it. With that much hp I wouldn't feel comfortable with a street tune. It's more about what you tuned it with, a laptop can only tune so much. I'm tired so I can't compile my thoughts into words.
#4408
Safety Car
Torque breaks parts not HP.
Back on page 54 of this thread, Rodney said he made 470 ft lbs of torque with oem pistons.
During Bert's most recent dyno test, Bert made 333 ft lbs torque.
Many people say that ring land breakage is usually from detonation.
Could this failure had been from detonation?
#4409
18psi
iTrader: (7)
Torque breaks parts not HP.
Back on page 54 of this thread, Rodney said he made 470 ft lbs of torque with oem pistons.
During Bert's most recent dyno test, Bert made 333 ft lbs torque.
Many people say that ring land breakage is usually from detonation.
Could this failure had been from detonation?
Back on page 54 of this thread, Rodney said he made 470 ft lbs of torque with oem pistons.
During Bert's most recent dyno test, Bert made 333 ft lbs torque.
Many people say that ring land breakage is usually from detonation.
Could this failure had been from detonation?
He is putting a set of custom pistons in his car right now along with some other work. Hes told me many times that through their r&d, once you get past the 400 mark with hp/tq you will see failures. Its only a matter of time
Ive probably done 30-40 wot pulls in the past 2-3 weeks with the higher hp tune. Not to mention 127000 miles.
I still wont rule out detonation until we get in there and can look at everything
Last edited by libert69; 11-30-2010 at 03:55 AM.
#4410
Safety Car
I took that into consideration. Although Rodney may had done just one dyno pull, there is a HUGE difference between 333 and 470 ft lbs of torque.
If those pistons can survive one dyno pull under the stress of 470 ft lbs torque, those pistons should live indefinitely under 333 ft lbs of torque.
But detonation is like tooth decay. It takes time to cause damage *sometimes*. I could see how the piston could survive one dyno pull with some detonation, but the piston could not survive with long-term detonation rattling it until metal fatigue occurred.
If those pistons can survive one dyno pull under the stress of 470 ft lbs torque, those pistons should live indefinitely under 333 ft lbs of torque.
But detonation is like tooth decay. It takes time to cause damage *sometimes*. I could see how the piston could survive one dyno pull with some detonation, but the piston could not survive with long-term detonation rattling it until metal fatigue occurred.
#4412
Intermediate
I don't post a lot here, but I dyno tune Honda's/Acura's primarily for a living.
Your compression test results certainly do match up with your ringland theory.
The pistons in the J32 (TL, at least) should be just as strong as any other Honda piston, to be honest. They share similar skirt and ringland dimensions with the K-Series/F-Series engines; engines that on a regular basis make 250+whp/liter.
A 3.2 liter engine making 400whp is only making 125whp/liter, and only 66whp/cylinder.
Are you sure you did not get a bad batch of gas?
Also, you're running meth, correct? Where is your nozzle located? Something I don't think a lot of TL owners have thought about concerning methanol is the intake manifold's distribution.
It's a shame Hondata doesn't have a FlashPro-like tuning solution for newer OBD2 J-Series cars. It would make all this a LOT easier.
- Derek
Your compression test results certainly do match up with your ringland theory.
The pistons in the J32 (TL, at least) should be just as strong as any other Honda piston, to be honest. They share similar skirt and ringland dimensions with the K-Series/F-Series engines; engines that on a regular basis make 250+whp/liter.
A 3.2 liter engine making 400whp is only making 125whp/liter, and only 66whp/cylinder.
Are you sure you did not get a bad batch of gas?
Also, you're running meth, correct? Where is your nozzle located? Something I don't think a lot of TL owners have thought about concerning methanol is the intake manifold's distribution.
It's a shame Hondata doesn't have a FlashPro-like tuning solution for newer OBD2 J-Series cars. It would make all this a LOT easier.
- Derek
#4413
Safety Car
Here are three post from this same thread showing how we thought it would be best to position the methanol nozzle(s). Do you agree with the logic in these linked post?
Also, any know issue with nitrous distribution problems with the manifold, provided that the nitrous nozzle is placed in the CAI approx 18 inches before the throttle body?
Link 1 (click here)
Link 2 (click here)
Link 3 (click here)
#4414
Intermediate
Derek,
Here are three post from this same thread showing how we thought it would be best to position the methanol nozzle(s). Do you agree with the logic in these linked post?
Also, any know issue with nitrous distribution problems with the manifold, provided that the nitrous nozzle is placed in the CAI approx 18 inches before the throttle body?
Link 1 (click here)
Link 2 (click here)
Link 3 (click here)
Here are three post from this same thread showing how we thought it would be best to position the methanol nozzle(s). Do you agree with the logic in these linked post?
Also, any know issue with nitrous distribution problems with the manifold, provided that the nitrous nozzle is placed in the CAI approx 18 inches before the throttle body?
Link 1 (click here)
Link 2 (click here)
Link 3 (click here)
The logic you're using is very good. Disregard that comment.
#4415
18psi
iTrader: (7)
I took that into consideration. Although Rodney may had done just one dyno pull, there is a HUGE difference between 333 and 470 ft lbs of torque.
If those pistons can survive one dyno pull under the stress of 470 ft lbs torque, those pistons should live indefinitely under 333 ft lbs of torque.
But detonation is like tooth decay. It takes time to cause damage *sometimes*. I could see how the piston could survive one dyno pull with some detonation, but the piston could not survive with long-term detonation rattling it until metal fatigue occurred.
If those pistons can survive one dyno pull under the stress of 470 ft lbs torque, those pistons should live indefinitely under 333 ft lbs of torque.
But detonation is like tooth decay. It takes time to cause damage *sometimes*. I could see how the piston could survive one dyno pull with some detonation, but the piston could not survive with long-term detonation rattling it until metal fatigue occurred.
Forged pistons at 10.0:1 compression definitely. If the price is right then forged rods as well. Valve train can be left stock since I never see past 6800.
Ill be trying out the HIM unit eventually.
I don't post a lot here, but I dyno tune Honda's/Acura's primarily for a living.
Your compression test results certainly do match up with your ringland theory.
The pistons in the J32 (TL, at least) should be just as strong as any other Honda piston, to be honest. They share similar skirt and ringland dimensions with the K-Series/F-Series engines; engines that on a regular basis make 250+whp/liter.
A 3.2 liter engine making 400whp is only making 125whp/liter, and only 66whp/cylinder.
Are you sure you did not get a bad batch of gas?
Also, you're running meth, correct? Where is your nozzle located? Something I don't think a lot of TL owners have thought about concerning methanol is the intake manifold's distribution.
It's a shame Hondata doesn't have a FlashPro-like tuning solution for newer OBD2 J-Series cars. It would make all this a LOT easier.
- Derek
Your compression test results certainly do match up with your ringland theory.
The pistons in the J32 (TL, at least) should be just as strong as any other Honda piston, to be honest. They share similar skirt and ringland dimensions with the K-Series/F-Series engines; engines that on a regular basis make 250+whp/liter.
A 3.2 liter engine making 400whp is only making 125whp/liter, and only 66whp/cylinder.
Are you sure you did not get a bad batch of gas?
Also, you're running meth, correct? Where is your nozzle located? Something I don't think a lot of TL owners have thought about concerning methanol is the intake manifold's distribution.
It's a shame Hondata doesn't have a FlashPro-like tuning solution for newer OBD2 J-Series cars. It would make all this a LOT easier.
- Derek
Regarding distribution, 2 nozzles at 3 and 9 oclock about 6 inches from the TB
#4416
Safety Car
Since we are on the topic of nozzle placement again, I would like to add this.
From the reading that I have been doing lately, many pure methanol (not water methanol) users have found better results from placing the nozzle much further away from the throttle body. The theory being that the additional distance gives the methanol more time to evaporate and to cool the incoming air.
Bert - If the opportunity presents itself, maybe reposition your nozzles further away from the TB.
From the reading that I have been doing lately, many pure methanol (not water methanol) users have found better results from placing the nozzle much further away from the throttle body. The theory being that the additional distance gives the methanol more time to evaporate and to cool the incoming air.
Bert - If the opportunity presents itself, maybe reposition your nozzles further away from the TB.
#4417
Safety Car
Hummm...Rodney also has no direct knock suppression or knock monitoring either
It has always been a mystery to me as to why the turbo has been magically avoiding the dreaded TL detonation destruction that the s/c guys know so well.
Whenever I am researching for my project, the thing that I read over, and over, and over, and over again is monitoring knock. All of the successful turbo people (Buick GN forum, EVO forum, WRX STI forum) treat knock monitoring as a life-or-death situation.
Knock Monitor (click here)
It has always been a mystery to me as to why the turbo has been magically avoiding the dreaded TL detonation destruction that the s/c guys know so well.
Whenever I am researching for my project, the thing that I read over, and over, and over, and over again is monitoring knock. All of the successful turbo people (Buick GN forum, EVO forum, WRX STI forum) treat knock monitoring as a life-or-death situation.
Knock Monitor (click here)
#4418
Safety Car
Looks like Opel was right
Back on page 51 (click here) of this same thread, Opel predicted ring land failure before anything else. Opel has the experience to know too. With his s/c, Opel has been thru several engine rebuilds. But, Opel didn't monitor knock either
Derek - Here are some pictures of the oem pistons in the TL. Does the ring lands look like what you thought? The lands appear to be beefy, right?
Back on page 51 (click here) of this same thread, Opel predicted ring land failure before anything else. Opel has the experience to know too. With his s/c, Opel has been thru several engine rebuilds. But, Opel didn't monitor knock either
The pistons in the J32 (TL, at least) should be just as strong as any other Honda piston, to be honest. They share similar skirt and ringland dimensions with the K-Series/F-Series engines; engines that on a regular basis make 250+whp/liter.
A 3.2 liter engine making 400whp is only making 125whp/liter, and only 66whp/cylinder.
A 3.2 liter engine making 400whp is only making 125whp/liter, and only 66whp/cylinder.
Last edited by Inaccurate; 11-30-2010 at 01:11 PM.
#4421
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
I that the top ring land on the OE piston was much narrower.
#4422
Three Wheelin'
You should also know that, I'm probably the only one that's a lot less prone to any knocking... 9.5:1 CR.
I'm not making excuse for not monitoring knock...but at the time I did all that, it's where I stopped doing anything, and that's when I said, I wasn't monitoring knock.
#4424
libert69,
Sorry to hear the news. Definitely get new pistons and drop them in. Aftermarket rods will run you about $1000-$1200 depending on where you get them from. I'd be curious to find out what the stock cylinders are capable of handling without the need of either a block guard or full sleeves.
When you're tossing numbers around, be sure to figure in the cost of:
- Crank and rod bearings - ~$150
- Timing belt kit - ~$200
- Gasket sets - ~$350
I've got parts lists and prices for everything that I've done so far. Ping me sometime if you need some additional info on what to get and what to watch out for.
Sorry to hear the news. Definitely get new pistons and drop them in. Aftermarket rods will run you about $1000-$1200 depending on where you get them from. I'd be curious to find out what the stock cylinders are capable of handling without the need of either a block guard or full sleeves.
When you're tossing numbers around, be sure to figure in the cost of:
- Crank and rod bearings - ~$150
- Timing belt kit - ~$200
- Gasket sets - ~$350
I've got parts lists and prices for everything that I've done so far. Ping me sometime if you need some additional info on what to get and what to watch out for.
#4425
It's a pretty easy install once you already have an ECU extension harness.
#4426
Safety Car
iTrader: (3)
Hey bmeyer! It's been a while since we've seen you here.
I think you're right. I was going to spend a couple hundred on a HDS and then needed another $400 or so for a new LCD to install a carputer. With that I can get the J&S.
There are so many other things I want to do as well........need to start playing the lottery or something
I think you're right. I was going to spend a couple hundred on a HDS and then needed another $400 or so for a new LCD to install a carputer. With that I can get the J&S.
There are so many other things I want to do as well........need to start playing the lottery or something
#4428
runnin a little boost
iTrader: (3)
Sorry to hear about the ring lands Bert. Keep us updated on what this is going to cost, I'm considering picking up an engine and doing the same. Mixing race gas and having to go to the same station for all my gas (the one that sells 100 octane) is becoming a pain.
#4429
Three Wheelin'
Yes, those are OEM pistons.
Bert,
If you're considering forged lower compression pistons...
I got mine from Supertech. They were custom made, as at the time they didn't stock anything, nor did anyone for that matter. I doubt they stock anything now.
I sent them an OEM piston, and asked them for 9.5:1 compression, and that's all they needed. About a 6 week turn around time.
Cost was: $810-Pistons
$101-Rings (gas nitrided)
They might even still have my sample or a cut of the oem piston. If you're interested, call and speak to them.
Also if you missed it, the link Inaccurate posted along with pics of broken pistons, there's a pic of the Supertech piston.
Bert,
If you're considering forged lower compression pistons...
I got mine from Supertech. They were custom made, as at the time they didn't stock anything, nor did anyone for that matter. I doubt they stock anything now.
I sent them an OEM piston, and asked them for 9.5:1 compression, and that's all they needed. About a 6 week turn around time.
Cost was: $810-Pistons
$101-Rings (gas nitrided)
They might even still have my sample or a cut of the oem piston. If you're interested, call and speak to them.
Also if you missed it, the link Inaccurate posted along with pics of broken pistons, there's a pic of the Supertech piston.
#4430
J36Twingt28r's,nextgt30r
Yes, those are OEM pistons.
Bert,
If you're considering forged lower compression pistons...
I got mine from Supertech. They were custom made, as at the time they didn't stock anything, nor did anyone for that matter. I doubt they stock anything now.
I sent them an OEM piston, and asked them for 9.5:1 compression, and that's all they needed. About a 6 week turn around time.
Cost was: $810-Pistons
$101-Rings (gas nitrided)
They might even still have my sample or a cut of the oem piston. If you're interested, call and speak to them.
Also if you missed it, the link Inaccurate posted along with pics of broken pistons, there's a pic of the Supertech piston.
Bert,
If you're considering forged lower compression pistons...
I got mine from Supertech. They were custom made, as at the time they didn't stock anything, nor did anyone for that matter. I doubt they stock anything now.
I sent them an OEM piston, and asked them for 9.5:1 compression, and that's all they needed. About a 6 week turn around time.
Cost was: $810-Pistons
$101-Rings (gas nitrided)
They might even still have my sample or a cut of the oem piston. If you're interested, call and speak to them.
Also if you missed it, the link Inaccurate posted along with pics of broken pistons, there's a pic of the Supertech piston.
^^NICE INFO OPEL . how much psi would u say the supertech pistons & rods handle with the CR u stated, and how about 10:1 CR? since i will be doing my turbo build i will be going 500+hp(800hp being my goal) and forsee myself needing even stronger pistons than the oem rl pistons & rods i have & sleeves. to libert make sure to get some darton sleeves as well because i've heard these cylinders are prone to walk.
#4431
Three Wheelin'
libert im sorry for what happened to you . definately build up your engine, and might as well throw some rods like u mentioned while u have the block open.
^^NICE INFO OPEL . how much psi would u say the supertech pistons & rods handle with the CR u stated, and how about 10:1 CR? since i will be doing my turbo build i will be going 500+hp(800hp being my goal) and forsee myself needing even stronger pistons than the oem rl pistons & rods i have & sleeves. to libert make sure to get some darton sleeves as well because i've heard these cylinders are prone to walk.
^^NICE INFO OPEL . how much psi would u say the supertech pistons & rods handle with the CR u stated, and how about 10:1 CR? since i will be doing my turbo build i will be going 500+hp(800hp being my goal) and forsee myself needing even stronger pistons than the oem rl pistons & rods i have & sleeves. to libert make sure to get some darton sleeves as well because i've heard these cylinders are prone to walk.
Its not a particular CR piston that has different test results. Its the manufacturing process on said pistons. Whether you get 11.0:1 or 8.0:1 CR pistons, wouldn't matter. In the end, its the power they can withhold that matters.
As far as your question about 10.0:1 CR...well with your power levels, or what you're trying to accomplish, I would go lower than 10.0:1
Few points of drop in CR, can easily be compensated with a few lbs of boost, and to add the better benefit of having some more room for error.
If you're boosting a lot, you don't need high CR.
There's a few high end cars with CR in the 8s, and make shitload of power.
I'm saying all this because I know how some people may feel about dropping CR to 8-9...as if they're giving up power. And it's not quiet true. Lower CR enables you to run even more aggressive ignition timing, even if you kept boost at the same level, and not to mention the option of upping your boost levels. Another thing is, high CR pistons tend to be dome shaped, and dome shaped pistons don't like boost much. I don't wanna go into much detail here but flat or panned pistons are the better choice. I say this because, even at the CR that our cars have, if the piston design was somewhat flatter, I'd bet anything that they'd withstand what we've experienced, better.
If you're going to shoot for the power levels you say, then I would not get anything above 9.0:1, ideally 8.0:1-8.5:1
#4432
Team Owner
Was knock being actively monitiored?
#4433
Safety Car
Finally.... we have IHC online.
IHC - Please hammer home to these people the importance of monitoring knock. I spent over an hour today going thru this thread reviewing how knock monitoring was treated during this entire thread. The subject was treated like a red-headed stepchild everytime the subject was brought up.
Now, we have the turbo folks in the same sinking boat as the s/c guys are in
I mentioned that Bert failure is most likely from detonation. And what do you see..... heads in the sand.
IHC - Please hammer home to these people the importance of monitoring knock. I spent over an hour today going thru this thread reviewing how knock monitoring was treated during this entire thread. The subject was treated like a red-headed stepchild everytime the subject was brought up.
Now, we have the turbo folks in the same sinking boat as the s/c guys are in
I mentioned that Bert failure is most likely from detonation. And what do you see..... heads in the sand.
#4435
Team Owner
Dyno tuning is only to get it into the ballpark. The fine tuning has to be done on the street.
#4436
Safety Car
answer -
the factory ecu is designed to pull timing i'd love to explain fully but this would be one long post , so i won't go in it right now , but the ecu is so smart that a knock box isn't even needed at the power level were at now at higher level let's say 12 psi and up i'd recommend one due to the fact you're out of correction factor for ecu ...........
#4437
Safety Car
The TL knocks in stock form, mine shows significant knock from 2nd and up on 91 octane.
Once knock starts it takes considerably more ignition retard to stop it than if it never occured in the first place.
A knock detector is the single most important "guage" for engine reliability, much moreso than the super commom AF guages.
Most NA cars do not pull a sufficient amount of timing quickly enough one knock starts to control it under boost
Once knock starts it takes considerably more ignition retard to stop it than if it never occured in the first place.
A knock detector is the single most important "guage" for engine reliability, much moreso than the super commom AF guages.
Most NA cars do not pull a sufficient amount of timing quickly enough one knock starts to control it under boost
#4438
Safety Car
Interesting -
Comparing Bert's timing (left) to my timing (right). Pics below are both wot thru 3rd gear (5AT).
During wot thru 3rd gear, Bert has 14* compared to my 17* during the first half of 3rd gear. The ecu bumps the timing at the top part of 3rd gear. Both Bert and mine both peak 22* at 6500 RPM.
Comparing our 2nd gear at wot shows more of a difference however (no pics).
Bert has 15* at 4000 RPM. Mine is 22* at 4000*.
Bert peaks at 20* at 6500 RPM. Mine peaks at 25* at 6500 RPM.
During wot thru 3rd gear, Bert has 14* compared to my 17* during the first half of 3rd gear. The ecu bumps the timing at the top part of 3rd gear. Both Bert and mine both peak 22* at 6500 RPM.
Comparing our 2nd gear at wot shows more of a difference however (no pics).
Bert has 15* at 4000 RPM. Mine is 22* at 4000*.
Bert peaks at 20* at 6500 RPM. Mine peaks at 25* at 6500 RPM.
That is VERY scary. A turbo TL running the same timing in some parts of the map as a stock TL. At least it's in the upper rpms and not the lower rpms. The higher gears are where the biggest timing difference between NA and turbo should be. Hopefully the meth is running full time.
#4440
Team Owner
Finally.... we have IHC online.
IHC - Please hammer home to these people the importance of monitoring knock. I spent over an hour today going thru this thread reviewing how knock monitoring was treated during this entire thread. The subject was treated like a red-headed stepchild everytime the subject was brought up.
Now, we have the turbo folks in the same sinking boat as the s/c guys are in
I mentioned that Bert failure is most likely from detonation. And what do you see..... heads in the sand.
IHC - Please hammer home to these people the importance of monitoring knock. I spent over an hour today going thru this thread reviewing how knock monitoring was treated during this entire thread. The subject was treated like a red-headed stepchild everytime the subject was brought up.
Now, we have the turbo folks in the same sinking boat as the s/c guys are in
I mentioned that Bert failure is most likely from detonation. And what do you see..... heads in the sand.
I also highly respect Bert and everything he's done so I didn't want to step on any toes. I'm very disappointed one because I know what it's like to lose an engine and two we still don't know at what torque level the J32 pistons give up because knock has not been monitored. If there was monitoring going on I would be glad to throw in the towel and say everyone was right, that the J32 can't take boost but I can't say that.
There's nothing more important than knock. Nothing else can destroy an engine, all the other factors can do such as boost level and AF is cause it to knock. The possible cause of knock is not as important to monitor as the knock iteslf.
What everyone needs to understand is knock can more than double cylinder pressures. If the car was making 400lbs it's going to have the equivalent of 800lbs of torque on everything.
Even on my engine that's built for boost, I don't go above 17psi without knock monitoring even though I know it can be run at 30psi with no knock.
What we have now is still an unknown. Since knock has never been monitored on a J32 we are still just as in the dark as we were 2 years ago. Forged pistons and good rods will prolong the inevitable but if the car is left in the same tune, it will eventually kill a forged rotating assembly.