Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Does anyone have info on what the final cost for the stand alone is going to be? I am about to send the 2nd depo and don't know if anyones heard what the final price will be.

On a side note I have been running the stock tires for a few days while I wait on new tires and wow do good tires make a difference. I can spin the tires at freeway speeds on the stocks, 40-100 spin all TQ.

Inaccurate

^ At 80 mph (actual vehicle speed), you can break loose and spin the regular oem tires?

What tires had you been using that was gripping better? What are your new tires that you are getting?

phee

iTrader: (5)

I love my g-force kdw's. Those are my axle breakers.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

No, I can't spin them at 80 MPH, what I mean to say is, jump on it at about 2700 rpm in 4th gear ( about 50 MPH) and the car will spin the tires to 80-100 tire speed if I don't lift. I was rolling around on the stock Michelin's for two days getting a rim fixed. I'm back on my Toyo Proxies which grip very well and only spin when really pushed. I ran the Michelin's with the supercharger and they gripped fine, but with the added TQ they felt like driving on wet pavement.

TLdream

iTrader: (4)

I got an email from rodney saying the finale cost was $1390, not sure if that was for me, and the extra features, i needed, or if it was for everyone. I will ask him tomorrow.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

I haven't quite figured out what our cost will be. From what I gather, our harness will work with the new unit. I am not sure what the harness alone costs but every little bit counts if that can be taken off the price.

As TLDream says, I was told the same $1390 shipped for everything.

I'll be sending in my DP this weekend.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Thanks guys.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

ive read good things on the ls1 forums about thermal barriers but I had no plans for that.


9:1 compression. Yea it looks beefy too. I was pleasantly surprised when I saw the pics. Only wish I could hold them to get a real feel for them lol

We are still going to use the oem rods

AckTL05

iTrader: (18)

The rods are the weakest link. Your doing all of this work, I would recommend changing them.

Rajca

iTrader: (8)

^i agree. spend a little bit more now and get it done right

TLdream

iTrader: (4)

They have proved otherwise a few times now. Having piston failure, clutch slipping, or transmission failure. Never a rod yet.

last i saw the custom rods are about $1200, thats not a little bit mroe money. They are still in the learning phase, and i think are shooting for specific numbers (that the stock rods can handle, but pistons cant). Just because they are not changing the rods doesnt mean its not being done "right"

NVA-AV6

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

No opinion Paul?

NVA-AV6

None that will be accepted.....

I hate cars

I assumed when Bert said "OEM rods" he was talking about OEM length since I had just asked the question if he was running a longer rod.

Hopefully they will be upgraded. While I agree the stock pistons are the weak link the rods probably won't be too far behind.

This is 83hp per hole (at the crank). It would be like a V8 making 665hp. This is definitely forged rod territory even though I'm a hypocrite with my all cast bottom end.

Majofo

not sure what that was all about but I think you should match those beefy pistons with beefy rods. You don't want to be Mr. Olympia up top and have steve urkel legs.. you go to squat half a ton and your ankle breaks.

Inaccurate

A 3G with s/c has snapped a rod before. See link below. He was doing a freeway pull when it snapped. In my opinion, it was prolonged detonation that snapped it. But. the rod could had failed because of a broken piston first and then the rod failed as a consequence of the broken piston. Just theories.

I agree with the general consensus to get beefy rods too. The Wiseco piston is suitable for a diesel, which have massively strong pistons. I will dare say that Bert will never have another broken piston ever, even with detonation. The next weak link (in the short block) is the oem rods. With replacing those oem rods with beefy performance rods, Bert would be able to completely forget about damaging the short block ever.

But as it stands now --->



I am not saying that the oem rods can't handle the job. But, there is a mismatch between the beefiness of those Wiseco pistons and the oem rods. If you are inside the engine already, spend the extra $$$$ now as a form of insurance. "A stitch in time saves nine."


a rod right through the oil pan (click here)

Inaccurate

Hi Paul,

I understand your reluctance. However, I wish to encourage you to share your experiences and opinions . There might be a few vocal people that would not accept your input. However, there are many more non-vocal people (aka, lurkers) and myself that value and could benefit from your experience.

AckTL05

iTrader: (18)

I myself threw a rod right through the block and I know others. Some people don't talk and some may know more then others. Did you know there is more then just JNR making a TURBO kit for the TL? I have seen two other TURBO TLs not made by JNR.

For your $1200 talk. Bert has spent countless hours researching and spent easily over 10k. He now has the chance while in the engine to make his engine never to be opened again, so what's $1200 when you invested months and thousands of dollars?

I hate cars

If I remember right, Paul is a big supporter of beefy aftermarket rods. I fully agree here. Having a factory forged crank, 6 bolt mains (I think) and diesel-like forged pistons, just from the outside looking in, the rods seem like the weak point by a long shot.

However, you can still break a nice forged blower piston from a bad tune, ask me how I know lol.

I hate cars

I have to add for Bert, shop around for the rods. You should be able to find a nice set for a little over half of what was quoted.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

recommendations for rod manufacturers? Pauter wants 1290$. Price isnt really that much of a concern but I want options

NVA-AV6

Crower did not want to touch these rods a year ago when I had the last set made.


Now I have pushed these engines to 13PSI on stock internals and they have held, but from experience I knew I was driving a bomb and wanted to see what would let go. Surprisingly it was the front precat that let lose first and the shards of ceramic catylist took out the front bank of cylinders. Now pulling the engine apart, 2 of the 6 rods had slight bends in them already. These engines will reliably hold 10 PSI all day WITH A GOOD TUNE, pistons breaking without rod damage is common with engine suffering from detonation......

TLdream

iTrader: (4)

I understand it is possible to put a rod through the block, but there were probably other factors involved.

The $1200 talk was direced towards Rajca when he said spend a litle more money. In the grand scheme of things, it may be a litle more money but Why not spend he $100-$200 per cylinder and have the block sleeved while your at it.

I was just saying if its not needed why do it. I dont really know if is needed or not, but there are 4 cylinder honda motors that make over 100hp per cylinder on stock pistons and rods.

Next questions how much hp/torque can an oem rod hold, on a properly tuned engine with no knock. I think we will soon find out

I hate cars

My biggest problem with this is no one has ever bent/broken a rod while monitoring knock. So the ones that have failed can't rule out detonation as the source instead of too much power. Don't get me wrong, just looking at the factory rods, forged or not, they need to be upgraded for boost.

Once an engine lets go you have to play detective to determine if the piston let go first or if the rod broke first. You can have a piston break first and then the rod quickly committing suicide by banging into anything it it's way.

Inaccurate

Thanks for the input Paul

At the 13 psi, what was the peak torque approximately?

Any chance those bends could had developed from the ingested ceramic catalyst causing limited upward travel?

libert69

iTrader: (7)

I was pushing high 11's sometimes spiking to 12psi. I wouldnt be surprised if some of the rods are slightly bent as well. We will soon find out.

Im thinking to make the same power as before (420 to the wheels) is going take around 16-18psi with 9:1 compression and lets not forget a good tune of course.

Anyone like scat? http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/Scat_Rod_Anatomy.asp

I noticed KMS has eagle rods on their site for the j32 but Ive heard eagle is not so good??? http://www.honda-performance.com/info-lv2.asp?id=254

I see that Wiseco also makes rods. http://www.wiseco.com/Automotive/Cra...ctingRods.aspx

libert69

iTrader: (7)

manley http://www.manleyperformance.com/master_catalog.shtml

libert69

iTrader: (7)

I found out ussi was using cunningham rods http://www.cunninghamrods.com/products.html

http://www.cunninghamrods.com/order-form.php

anyone want to fill in the blanks?

Rajca

iTrader: (8)

its not cheap, i know, but say the rod lets go, now ull have to spend money on pistons, valves, possibly a new block or crank. so it pays off to get better rods

libert69

iTrader: (7)

Ok people (Paul ) need some help here. Ive been contemplating throwing in the type-s crankshaft since a new one is only 280$. Thoughts?

Ive read the 3.5 crank fits directly into the j32 block. So a 3.5 crank in a 3.2 block, pistons (9:1) and more then likely pauter rods (since pauter already has the specs for the j35 rods and I cant find a single bad thing about pauter. I may even be able to find a set already made)..should be a pretty bad ass setup

What else needs to be swapped in order for the j35 crankshaft to work to work in our j32? Pulley?

I started thinking about the 3.5 crank for the increased low end torque. Low end torque on the 3.2 with the turbo was not bad but that was at 11:1. Now, with 9:1 and a 3.2 crank, low end tq might be very bad. I was thinking that the 3.5 crank would really help that problem out. Thoughts?
.
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Also, on the topic of the new ecu, Im hearing it has the ability to adjust boost by gear. This could be a very good thing for the auto. I certainly dont need or want massive amounts of boost in 1st and 2nd gear. Especially since Im spinning like crazy and second gear wont shift unless Im using ss. Can we say, 450+whp in 3rd gear

NVA-AV6

If you are going to run a J35 crank the one you want is from a 04 MDX, the pilot/oddy cranks may or may not be forged since I have seen both come out of the yards for core engines. Going from a 86mm stroke to a 93mm stroke I would highly reccomend getting the rotating assembly balanced and make damn sur the piston skirts have a top shelf anti friction coating on them. Now another plug & play option for a J32A3 block is a J37 crank from a 07 MDX, and paulter does have the rod specs, this will yeild a 89mm bore X 96mm stroke 3.6L and another really nice thing is the rods bearing journals were enlarged from 50mm to 55mm.

HQTL6SPD

libert69, if you decide to go with the 3.6L set-up, take lots of pics or even make a thread on it

I wouldn't attempt to do the conversion as a diy, but I am still interested on seeing how its all done GL

I hate cars

The only issue here is you would have to replace the new pistons if you go with the longer stroke.

I would not think of this turbo motor in NA terms.... Meaning the powerband is not so much determined by displacement as it is by when and where the turbo spools since this will have a MUCH larger effect.

Obviously more displacement would mean earlier spool and more low end, giving you what you want. With forged rods it's probably not a bad idea to do this.

The thing I hate is Honda's use of an undersquare engine. The J32 has a more favorable oversquare setup. Piston speeds are going to be higher with the longer stroke and if you increase piston dwell time at TDC you're increasing the chances of detonation. It's sort of the opposite of what you want NA, you actually want the piston on it's way down asap.

phee

iTrader: (5)

the tl isnt going to be a slouch with 9:1 comp and a good tune. i would scrap the crank idea

I hate cars

That's what I would lean toward. Power will be easy to come by. This thing will be capable of 600+ as it sits....with a larger turbo. The only thing the longer stroke could help with is drivability.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

thanks guys. Since the pistons are already built based on the j32 specs, I guess switching to a different crank in not going to work at this point.

Paul, I called up pauter and they told me the have the specs for the j32A motor. Are the rod specs the same for the whole j32 series?

NVA-AV6

Yes, as are the piston specs, the J32 pistons will work with the J35 or J37 crank....

libert69

iTrader: (7)

^So if I was to use the j35/37 crank, the pistons I had made will work? The longer stroke of the 35/37 crank will bump the compression up a little bit from the 9:1 that they were orginally made for the j32 right? Any other concerns then what was already said?

Inaccurate

Bert,

The guys on V6xPerformancexDotxNet (Paul's home territory) are very knowledgeable on this topic.

Here are some of the many threads on building a J35/J37. Copy and paste these links into your browser. Remove the red X before submitting. Acurazine blocks these links. So, this is why I must disguise it with the red X.

http://www.v6Xperformance.net/forums/6g-performance-discussion/9829-3-5-conversion.html

http://www.v6Xperformance.net/forums/7g-performance-discussion/191426-j36.html

http://www.v6Xperformance.net/forums/6g-performance-discussion/54261-j30-custom-j32a2-j35a-swap.html

http://www.v6Xperformance.net/forums/7g-performance-discussion/88527-strokn-j33.html

http://www.v6Xperformance.net/forums/7g-performance-discussion/202318-sherpas-j36-stage-one.html

http://www.v6Xperformance.net/forums/6g-performance-discussion/199843-j35-build-need-some-knowledge-d.html