Mike_TX

A smidge off-topic, but since it came up, here is the Caddy:



.
.

Motown2006RL

I was fortunate enough to attend the Autoweek Design Forum in Detroit and tour the show before it opened to the public. The Acura stand was a snoozefest-NOTHING new, and as said previously, they dragged out the old RL chassis. The Honda CR-Z next door is very nice though! I did get to chat with some Acura folks who stated (WAY off the record) that the new TL is a bit polarizing visually, but its interior is supposedly a HUGE improvement. And has more back seat room than the RL. I told them that I love my RL: I've had more comfortable and roomier cars (Lexus LS), Quicker cars (928, MX-6 GT, etc.), Prettier cars (too many, too subjective), better handling cars (Miata, Prelude, MR2), etc. - but none that was pretty damn perfect in all respects. It's fast enough, big enough, handles great even in terrible Detroit conditions with SH-AWD, is extremely comfy, has a Classic design, terrific fit and finish, quality materials, great attention to detail, Bluetooth and an amazing sound system. All told: The best overall car I have ever owned. And unlike Mercedes/Porsche I don't get dirty looks driving it and don't pass 30 a day on the road. Which is a shame in a way! Most people don't get this car. They look at the sticker and the size of the back seat and shake their heads.
And yes, the CTS coupe is gorgeous. Having seen pics of all the other concepts there this was a REAL surprise! I got to talk to the head Caddy designers and they only need the Lutz/board go ahead and the design is production ready.

neuronbob

I drooled over that, it's sexy in person, more so than in the pix, and the Cadillac guys say there will be a V version of it. However, as much as I want my "mid-life crisis car", I need one that will fit a baby and booster seat.

Am I a GM fanboy yet?

I'm not giving up on Acura yet. I'm very satisfied with my RL and I am merely suffering from the "newer, better, faster, grass is greener on other side" car bug I get every year. I'm not making any purchases until next year, if then. That way, I get to see and test-drive not only the new RL, but also the new TL. I also allow the cost for getting into a CTS-V to fall to invoice, as all GM models do, if I indeed choose to buy it. I am hoping I can hold off the bug for a while yet.

TampaRLX-SH

Yes, I too suffer from perpetual new car fever.

I am not-so-secretly hoping the MMC RL is fugly, or nothing that keeps me lusting over it. I would be thrilled with my 06 RL making it until the next gen launch (+ 1 year for teething) which I would expect to be around 2011-ish. We have to be prepared with newer, better technology toys, but that will not make me trade a 30-40K car to get a newer NAVI, cooled seats, or the like.

When I got my 06 I knew I did not want ACC or PAX, so it made the package option easy to pass on (for additional cost). I have an inkling the night vision feature may be offered, but again, I read the cost is substantial (on JDM LEGENDs). That said, my 06 has held up well in the technology / feature race and still satisfies my feature toybox. But even if Acura does launch more leading edge technology (i doubt much engineering advances will debut with the MC RL), I suspect they will get little or no credit / recognition for it.

I am already thrilled my 06 is no different than the 08 (sans minor items). On the flip side, the fact that Acura has not offered improvements does make it seem more dated (although ageless to my tastes). It does irk me that Ford is gushing over SYNCH and getting consumer buzz over features Acura has had for 5 years.

5 years ahead of the curve in the technology biz is lightyears. Acura gets no credit, even now that it has trickled down into the Honda brand products (as expected).

So once again, the period of ever Acura sentence becomes.....marketing, brand recognition and model differentiation.

*sigh*

Motown2006RL

I've got the fever too-every 2-3 years it hits. I love the Audi RS4, S6, TTS, S8 etc. but worry about reliability. So I feel guilty though - because the RL Service is a fraction of what the other Premium brands charge and it has been dead reliable (except for a flat battery twice-I hate that because all the settings get erased).

TampaRLX-SH

I agree.

I would love the RL's fob to be integrated with a USB type thumb drive for storing driver's personal settings, transporting MP3 files, and even NAVI updates downloaded from OwnerLink onto the fob / USB

In the event your RL loses personalized settings, you simply plug in the fob to a USB port and the personailzed settings, updates etc. upload into the RLs onboard flash memory.

A step further, for multiple Acura households, you can port the personalized data between cars.

Motown2006RL

You know, my full-house water purifier and conditioner have back-up capacitors to hold the time and setting for power outages. How can Acura justify not spending $1.50 for one of these on a $55,000 vehicle?

dwest1023

I love the Audi's too, but as you said the reliability issue is too much for me to bear. I don't care about warranty, because its always a two trip affair.

Motown2006RL

We have a VW New beetle - that's a four trip affair. I can't think of a single component that hasn't failed inside and out. To change the headlight you have to take half the engine compartment apart! Even the window switch fell off in my hand last week. Total P.O.S.

CL6

Build a car in a third would country and look what you get. I heard to change the tail light bulb you have to remove the entire read bumper.

Motown2006RL

This "failure" with the RL has not hurt Acura or the RL name. In fact, except for those who follow such things, the public doesn't even realize the RL is a "failure". Restyle it and Acura is back on track. It's a great car that needs a few tweeks. We can probably say the same thing about Acura in general

Even though I love the design of the current RL...yes-they could go much bolder and draw more attention to an excellent platform. Point well taken.

cai06

And you seriously think they design those cars in third world countries?? That seems to me a design quality problem, not a craftmanship problem and the engineers back in VW California HQs are to blame. Craftmanship has minor influence up to some extent (ie TL vs RL/TSX) however many excellent cars are built abroad also like the CR-V, Civic, Corolla, etc heck even MB is starting to assemble cars in China.

CL6

You are correct! It is a poor design and I did not think that one through. But I wouldn't buy a Mexican or Brazillian built car or gun. You know what you get when you buy a Brazillian made Taurus pistol... a lifetime warranty! Lots of good that'll do when it jams on you and you get killed because of it.

MB is now building cars in S. Africa... we'll see how that goes.

Also... I own a very old German built VW so I'm not against the brand. But the difference between German built and third world country built is huge I think.

Motown2006RL

Yes - when you really look you can sure tell the RL/TSX vs TL difference. Several times I've driven the TL for up to a week or so and I couldn't wait to get my RL back. Funny, because for the 2 years prior to my purchase the TL was my first choice. The TL just seems to lack refinement in comparison.

Mike_TX

I think you have to be careful when you talk about this kind of thing. For instance, The Taurus PT line of pistols was actually designed by Beretta, built on Beretta factory equipment in a Beretta factory bought by Taurus, using the same staff that formerly manufactured them as the Beretta Model 92. As such, the Taurus PT 92 was nothing more than a Beretta Model 92 with a different label. And it is a splendid pistol, too (I've owned 3 of them myself).

But the practice of manufacturing cars designed in the U.S., or Asia, or elsewhere in third-world venues hasn't proven to be overly successful yet. One exception might be Slovakia (if you consider it a 3rd world country), where production of KIA's, Peugeots and VW's has been going very well. But Chrysler's and VW's and even GM's and Ford's efforts haven't worked out as well. I personally feel it has to do with the education and skill level of the workforce, but that's just my opinion.

.
.

cai06

Cars assembled in third world countries and sold here like the Honda CR-V (Mexico)
usually start as ready-to-assemble kits with a very small percentage of local parts integration (around 5-10%) approved to HQ specifications and quality control, so basically the only real variable is craftmanship.
This difference -at least for me- is for some reason noticeable in Acura cars, thats why I jumped from a TSX to a RL without even considering the TL. And we are talking about a luxury designed japanese car assembled in the first world US. However to me overall bad design and engineering is a thousand times worse than just minor assembly issues. I still would take any german or japanese car assembled in a developing country over a domestic design & built car anytime, everyday and blindly.

CL6

I'd take my SigSauer any day over a Taurus. Brazillian vs. Swiss/German... no contest.

Mike_TX

Can't argue with that, and isn't this the same line of thought that brought us to Acura?

Face it - a Hyundai Sonata and an RL will both get the job done, but most of us here demand more than "adequacy". We're more sophisticated buyers and are more appreciative of engineering and build quality,and that's what sold us on the RL.

Given that, we're naturally expecting even more of the 3rd Gen RL that the 2nd Gen delivered - even though it was (is) superior to its rivals in most respects. The RL is perhaps the Sig Sauer of cars, but we're always looking for the Heckler & Koch.

.
.

Ibn Rushd

I'd laugh if someone expected less from the 3rd than the 2nd. And i don't mean that in the context of having doubts about the company, i just mean it as that's what they truly expected.

I've driven the Sonata, my uncle was checking it out a while ago, and it impressed me. The I4 really had power and the V6 kicked me in the ass. I felt like I was going blind, because i didn't see that coming at all.

But when the 3rd Gen RL comes out, we're also seeing the (Would it be 2nd gen?) NSX come out...I wouldn't be surprised if they share a platform...

But in theory Honda has three big years....So for those who have not lost faith in Acura, might be happy

2009 - TSX and TL
2010/2011 - RL and NSX

Insert a smaller coupe for the line up and a larger car, if they decide for it...

And then for Honda, I think a new S2000 should show it's face because the old one is really getting on, and despite how the NSX did, i don't think it'll make 15 years.

And i believe a new Ridgeline is coming out and Element might need a refresher of sorts.

Okay and for the actual point of this post...

What the hell is a Sig Sauer?

CL6

Yea I see your point.

Here's an interesting story:

http://www.petrol-head.com/2008/01/w...worl.html#more

SigSauer makes some of the finest pistols on earth used by SEALs for one.

Chuck091279

I'm waiting on the re-designed MB E Class. I like where their body style is going. Ideally my next car will be a 1 year old, 2nd year of the new MB E class. Unless of course Acura pumps out a new RL that blows me away and makes me trade in my current RL in about 5 years.

cai06

FMC RL confirmed for 2010..
see link:

http://www.egmcartech.com/2008/01/21...k-for-the-nsx/

GoHawks

Ironic.

Born and raised in Chicago. Lived my whole life there. This year I move to Southeast Michigan.

Being a car guy, I'm psyched to be going to the Detroit Auto Show this coming weekend, and one of the cars I'm most interested in is going to debut in Chicago.

GoHawks

A couple months ago I was driving my son and one of his teammates to hockey practice. I was giving the Nav voice commands, and the kid goe, "Hey is that the new Sync?"



Our '04 Land Cruiser has VR, but it's absolutely worthless. I stopped trying to use it within a month of owning the vehicle. I wrote off the technology and it wasn't even a factor when I bought the RL.

What a pleasant surprise for me when I found out that Acura really leapfrogged the technology when they introduced this car just over three years ago, and now Ford gets all the hype. Actually it may have been even earlier with the TL (you current and former 3rd gen TL guys may better answer that).

Another missed opportunity by Acura.

GoHawks

I had 9mm Taurus as well. Never had an issue with it. Just got rid of it because I just wasn't comfortable with it in the house with the kids, despite the fact that it was never loaded and I had a trigger lock on it.

Mike_TX

You guys are 100% right about the VR thing. Ford is running Synch ads like crazy, and most people probably think they invented it. It will sell a bunch of cars for them, too.

And here is Acura, with the best VR in the industry ... and the best navigation system in the industry, too ... and who knows it? Just us owners and former owners. Now, that's a crime, Acura.

My old grandmother used to say something like, "If you hide your light under a bucket, you're not going to dazzle anybody". A little homespun, I guess, but still spot-on.

.
.

neuronbob

So after the most expensive MMC in Honda history, they're going to chuck the 2G RL away in the next model year? One would think they'd get at least a couple of model years out of the MMC first to recoup the cost. We'll see...

Marketing, marketing, marketing, marketing......not too late to get the message out, though. They can run some Acura Advance ads saying "we pioneered VR and navi systems that others are now crowing about...." or some such.

Acura is definitely the shy nerd of the luxury car market. They're the smartest at the party but because they are so well-mannered and quiet, they are always wallflowers and don't get asked to dance. Don't ask me how I know this.....

krio

According to Dick Colliver, Acura's executive veep of American Honda Motor Corp., Acura will be a totally different brand in the next five or six years, further differentiating itself from Honda and becoming a tier one luxury brand with its aim set squarely on BMW and other luxury automakers.

thanks god, if it is true...

dwboston

I read that as "in 2010". So 2 years out of the MMC then an all-new RL in 2010 as a 2011 model. It wouldn't make sense to do a refresh for 1 year.

krio

than what? if in 2010 we get a new model, what happened with the 09??

Despite a down year for Acura in 2007 — sales slipped 10.5 percent to just 180,104 units — Collier is optimistic about the future of the brand. "We get the TSX in the spring and the new TL in the fall," he said. He made it clear Acura expected 2007 to be tough, since much of the model line was aging.[/I]

No word about a RL restyled...

Collier also addressed the weak sales of Acura's range-topping RL sedan, saying that it was the "wrong car" for the segment. A new RL is slated to bow in 2010, and Collier revealed that the car's overall direction will change.

Are they joking or what? What does it means "the wrong car"?? We entered the 4th year of selling and they say that their flagship is a wrong car!
Better to say "the right car for the wrong brand"...
It's not the RL fault if is selling bad, is the Acura fault. When they'll understand it...

SpicyMikey

I hope it's true also. I'd like more choices at this price level from the asian makers. I'm not excited enough with the quality and value coming from Europe or America for luxury brands. I hope Infiniti continues to step it up also. Competition is good

TampaRLX-SH

I hope you told the kid 'TUCK & ROLL!' as you ejected him out of the car.

And yes, the Acura VR / Bluetooth / Acuralink telematics bundle came in the 04 TL. Then the 05 RL itroduced a more sophisticated VR bundle that has now trickled down to the current MY TL, MDX, RDX and now Accord.

I expect the MMC 09 RL to introduce a newer version of this functionality.

ssim3

Sync does one up acura in that it reads your contact list on your phone & ipod info so you dont have to redundantly input your voice tags.

jhr3uva90

I agree with you. Also, I think that Collier, American Honda Corporation, and the Acura division have little control over the RL. They just have to take the Honda Legend that HMC gives them. The Americans can choose what to call the car ("RL" instead of "Legend"), the sales price, and what features to omit to reach that sales price (like cooled seats). I think part of the reason why the RL sells so poorly is because Acura doesn't want to market a car they didn't design. In fact, the RL's design was supposed to be for the TL, but AMC/Acura rejected that design. Why should they hype up a car based on a deign they didn't want?

halfaznguy87

Colliver said the aim is to "separate Acura and Honda more." He estimated in six years, Acura will be a "tier 1" luxury automaker like BMW or Mercedes.

An Acura designer claimed last year the company plans to rival Bentley and Maybach.

***

Hmm.. Everything is riding on the new RL and NSX to bring Acura up. So this statement also confirms that Acura will come out with a ultra luxo sedan. But, honestly, I don't think the RL will be it. Man, I really wona see Acura go all out and build a world class premium sedan. The next ten years should be really interesting..
They talk the talk let's see 'em walk the walk..

CL6

That's sad... I was with them when they sold more than 200,000 units for the first time.

Whoops.

SpicyMikey

I don't know. That sounds kind of childish. Why would Acura management intentionally not sell a car only because they didn't design it? This is business. If parent Honda felt teh management at Acura was intentionally sabotaging sales then they'd be fired in a heart beat.

It must be way more complicated, and much less sinister, then that.

halfaznguy87

They just need to fire the current marketing team an hire a fresh new one. Just give them the money they need and let them role.

jhr3uva90

I agree, but how does a company market a car that they don't think will sell anyway? Part of marketing is providing the right product, a product that the market wants. The market has never shown that it wants a $45K sedan from Acura. On the other hand, I'm sure Acura did much market research for the MDX and has evidence that the US market does want an SUV like the Acura MDX. I'm sure that they have ample market research that shows the American customer wants a $35K car like the TL. The RL/Legend is a car made basically for Japan and Europe that was forced upon Acura in North America. HMC in Japan probably did no US market research and probably didn't care. So Acura in North America is stuck with a car that has a Japanese mentality that is selling pretty well in Europe and probably not too badly in Japan, but is doing very poorly here.

SpicyMikey

Well that's a different story. Everyone would agree not to throw good money after bad. That is probably why Acura NA appears not to care about the RL. They care. I suppose they just decided not to market a product that has no chance of being a sales success. I'm sure it has nothing to do with it being forced on them by Japan