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Hockey: News and Discussion Thread
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NEW YORK -- The players emerged from the room around midnight and scurried down the hotel escalator past reporters, unwilling to share much, if anything.
The smiles on some of their faces, however, suggested it wasn’t a bad day at all.
As one player would later share via text message to ESPN.com, "There was certainly traction. But I don’t want to say more."
That cautious optimism -- the key word being cautious -- was on full display when NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly and NHLPA outside counsel Steve Fehr stood shoulder to shoulder in a joint media availability after the marathon sessions, Fehr calling it possibly the best day in the entire process, while Daly nodded in agreement.
But other than that, both sides were tight-lipped. Like a pitcher working on a no-hitter through six innings, it’s too early to get too excited.
I’d be ready to say this, however: I’m willing to bet there’s a far greater chance of hockey this season than not after Tuesday’s developments.
At the center of this fragile momentum is the presence of the Pittsburgh Penguins, led by reclusive billionaire owner Ron Burkle, who shined brightly in talks Tuesday, according to sources, the players receptive to his tone.
Burkle’s first appearance in labor talks comes at a critical time in the process, with both sides having tried nearly everything else -- mediation, large group meetings, small group meetings, etc.
When NHL commissioner Gary Bettman offered to bench himself from this meeting as long as NHLPA counterpart Donald Fehr did as well, it was an opportunity for Burkle to enter the picture and do his thing.
Burkle over the past couple of weeks had conversed with Sidney Crosby's agent, Pat Brisson, and fellow Penguins owner Mario Lemieux and to some degree Crosby, as well, as the group tried to find common ground among the obvious, divisive issues between both sides of the labor impasse.
Talk about a Penguins power play.
Lemieux, in town for Wednesday’s board of governors meeting, was spotted in the hotel lobby along with Brisson and others after the meeting Tuesday night, once again underlying all of their common interest in the cause.
Crosby was certainly happy to see Burkle get added to Tuesday’s owners-players meeting, having much respect for the Penguins owner and certainly the hope that his inclusion would bring a moderate voice to the owners’ side at a time when players were growing weary of hearing from hard-liners such as Jeremy Jacobs (who was nevertheless still in the room Tuesday).
Burkle’s track record in his private business life suggests that he was just the man to try to find middle ground. When the Pittsburgh arena deal nearly fell through, Burkle’s involvement helped save the project. His awards from labor groups in California underline his ability to negotiate fairly.
Combined with a similar desire shared by Crosby to do everything possible to save a season, the Penguins owner and his superstar captain put their best feet forward Tuesday in an attempt to push things back in the right direction.
Sources on both sides Tuesday night described for the very first time seeing a real desire to try to get a deal done. But they were also cautious in saying the early traction in talks could easily combust once again, just as it did last month when four consecutive days of talks raised hopes but ultimately crashed in a fiery Friday session.
Of course, that was then and this is now. We’re in December. Both sides are feeling the immense heat of a season hanging in the balance. Both sides are keenly aware when you talk to them that this is potentially the last shot at getting something done before the union ramps up talk of decertification and the owners threaten to blow up the entire season.
And perhaps, all along, the league was waiting until this stage of the process to finally, finally show a willingness to play ball on its numerous demands in the player contracting rights. Neither side would divulge specifics late Tuesday night, but I’d be shocked if the league didn’t finally relent on some contracting rights demands. That would certainly go a long way toward making the players eager to make a deal.
I’m always weary of judging the success of bargaining talks by looking at the length of the meeting. But in this case, Tuesday’s late-night session is indeed a sign that we still have a chance for hockey this season.
The same couldn’t be said just a week ago.
The smiles on some of their faces, however, suggested it wasn’t a bad day at all.
As one player would later share via text message to ESPN.com, "There was certainly traction. But I don’t want to say more."
That cautious optimism -- the key word being cautious -- was on full display when NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly and NHLPA outside counsel Steve Fehr stood shoulder to shoulder in a joint media availability after the marathon sessions, Fehr calling it possibly the best day in the entire process, while Daly nodded in agreement.
But other than that, both sides were tight-lipped. Like a pitcher working on a no-hitter through six innings, it’s too early to get too excited.
I’d be ready to say this, however: I’m willing to bet there’s a far greater chance of hockey this season than not after Tuesday’s developments.
At the center of this fragile momentum is the presence of the Pittsburgh Penguins, led by reclusive billionaire owner Ron Burkle, who shined brightly in talks Tuesday, according to sources, the players receptive to his tone.
Burkle’s first appearance in labor talks comes at a critical time in the process, with both sides having tried nearly everything else -- mediation, large group meetings, small group meetings, etc.
When NHL commissioner Gary Bettman offered to bench himself from this meeting as long as NHLPA counterpart Donald Fehr did as well, it was an opportunity for Burkle to enter the picture and do his thing.
Burkle over the past couple of weeks had conversed with Sidney Crosby's agent, Pat Brisson, and fellow Penguins owner Mario Lemieux and to some degree Crosby, as well, as the group tried to find common ground among the obvious, divisive issues between both sides of the labor impasse.
Talk about a Penguins power play.
Lemieux, in town for Wednesday’s board of governors meeting, was spotted in the hotel lobby along with Brisson and others after the meeting Tuesday night, once again underlying all of their common interest in the cause.
Crosby was certainly happy to see Burkle get added to Tuesday’s owners-players meeting, having much respect for the Penguins owner and certainly the hope that his inclusion would bring a moderate voice to the owners’ side at a time when players were growing weary of hearing from hard-liners such as Jeremy Jacobs (who was nevertheless still in the room Tuesday).
Burkle’s track record in his private business life suggests that he was just the man to try to find middle ground. When the Pittsburgh arena deal nearly fell through, Burkle’s involvement helped save the project. His awards from labor groups in California underline his ability to negotiate fairly.
Combined with a similar desire shared by Crosby to do everything possible to save a season, the Penguins owner and his superstar captain put their best feet forward Tuesday in an attempt to push things back in the right direction.
Sources on both sides Tuesday night described for the very first time seeing a real desire to try to get a deal done. But they were also cautious in saying the early traction in talks could easily combust once again, just as it did last month when four consecutive days of talks raised hopes but ultimately crashed in a fiery Friday session.
Of course, that was then and this is now. We’re in December. Both sides are feeling the immense heat of a season hanging in the balance. Both sides are keenly aware when you talk to them that this is potentially the last shot at getting something done before the union ramps up talk of decertification and the owners threaten to blow up the entire season.
And perhaps, all along, the league was waiting until this stage of the process to finally, finally show a willingness to play ball on its numerous demands in the player contracting rights. Neither side would divulge specifics late Tuesday night, but I’d be shocked if the league didn’t finally relent on some contracting rights demands. That would certainly go a long way toward making the players eager to make a deal.
I’m always weary of judging the success of bargaining talks by looking at the length of the meeting. But in this case, Tuesday’s late-night session is indeed a sign that we still have a chance for hockey this season.
The same couldn’t be said just a week ago.
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dom (12-06-2012)
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I feel the need...
Red Wings owner Mike Ilitch can't wait for arena
Mike Ilitch has been talking about this for months. He has been planning it for years. He has been envisioning it a lot longer than that.
But Tuesday's news out of Lansing, where officials from Ilitch's Olympia Development were pitching their plans for a new arena anchoring a $650 million development in downtown Detroit, only confirms what we already knew.
The 83-year-old pizza magnate, who also happens to be the owner of the Tigers and Red Wings, is in a hurry to get things done. Whether it's winning a World Series or building a new arena for his hockey team or, presumably, ending this ridiculous NHL lockout, there is no more pretense about patience anymore.....
But Tuesday's news out of Lansing, where officials from Ilitch's Olympia Development were pitching their plans for a new arena anchoring a $650 million development in downtown Detroit, only confirms what we already knew.
The 83-year-old pizza magnate, who also happens to be the owner of the Tigers and Red Wings, is in a hurry to get things done. Whether it's winning a World Series or building a new arena for his hockey team or, presumably, ending this ridiculous NHL lockout, there is no more pretense about patience anymore.....
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The sizzle in the Steak
We'll be back.
...but at the same time:
Screw you! Players! You guys are dumber than a bag of hammers.
4th tier sport, and you expect more than 50% of the revenue?!?!?
Screw you! Owners! You guys always destroy the CBA you agreed to then complain about the loss of $$$
Screw you! Fehr! You are nothing more than a thug...a brick wall when it comes to negotiating.
Screw you! Count! You are the worst thing that ever happened to this great sport. We pray for the day you go away. The NHL will be better for it.
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Bettman needs to go. Please.
Worst commissioner in all of sports. Period.
Worst commissioner in all of sports. Period.
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..but like an addict....once and addict, always an addict.
We'll be back.
...but at the same time:
Screw you! Players! You guys are dumber than a bag of hammers.
4th tier sport, and you expect more than 50% of the revenue?!?!?
Screw you! Owners! You guys always destroy the CBA you agreed to then complain about the loss of $$$
Screw you! Fehr! You are nothing more than a thug...a brick wall when it comes to negotiating.
Screw you! Count! You are the worst thing that ever happened to this great sport. We pray for the day you go away. The NHL will be better for it.
We'll be back.
...but at the same time:
Screw you! Players! You guys are dumber than a bag of hammers.
4th tier sport, and you expect more than 50% of the revenue?!?!?
Screw you! Owners! You guys always destroy the CBA you agreed to then complain about the loss of $$$
Screw you! Fehr! You are nothing more than a thug...a brick wall when it comes to negotiating.
Screw you! Count! You are the worst thing that ever happened to this great sport. We pray for the day you go away. The NHL will be better for it.
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And last but not least
LFG RANGERS!!!!!!!!!!!
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Adios hockey?
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/stor...-hour-thursday
NHL labor talks break down
ESPN.com news services
The latest round of NHL labor talks broke down Thursday when the league rejected the players' proposal of an eight-year collective bargaining agreement.
Players' association director Donald Fehr said the union received a voicemail message from the NHL, which stated that the proposal was unacceptable and that there was no need to continue negotiations Friday.
Fehr also said he doesn't believe the lockout will be resolved soon. The voicemail, left for union special counsel Steve Fehr, stated that "some things or everything" the league has offered is now off the table, according to Donald Fehr, who added this is not a positive development.
NHL commissioner Gary Bettman said that the "Make Whole" contract provision is off the table and that the league is not interested in bringing mediators back into the negotiations.
In light of the NHL's response, the union likely will discuss decertification, a source told ESPNNewYork.com.
The union's latest offer proposed an eight-year collective bargaining agreement, which included an opt-out clause for the players after the sixth year. The NHLPA also offered to limit the length of players' contracts to eight years.
Information from ESPNNewYork.com's Katie Strang, ESPN.com's Pierre LeBrun and The Associated Press contributed to this report.
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/stor...-hour-thursday
NHL labor talks break down
ESPN.com news services
The latest round of NHL labor talks broke down Thursday when the league rejected the players' proposal of an eight-year collective bargaining agreement.
Players' association director Donald Fehr said the union received a voicemail message from the NHL, which stated that the proposal was unacceptable and that there was no need to continue negotiations Friday.
Fehr also said he doesn't believe the lockout will be resolved soon. The voicemail, left for union special counsel Steve Fehr, stated that "some things or everything" the league has offered is now off the table, according to Donald Fehr, who added this is not a positive development.
NHL commissioner Gary Bettman said that the "Make Whole" contract provision is off the table and that the league is not interested in bringing mediators back into the negotiations.
In light of the NHL's response, the union likely will discuss decertification, a source told ESPNNewYork.com.
The union's latest offer proposed an eight-year collective bargaining agreement, which included an opt-out clause for the players after the sixth year. The NHLPA also offered to limit the length of players' contracts to eight years.
Information from ESPNNewYork.com's Katie Strang, ESPN.com's Pierre LeBrun and The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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Heard the league wants 10 years
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I think it's time we close this thread.
Move along, nothing to see here.
Move along, nothing to see here.
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LFG RANGERS!!!!!!!!!!!
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Please don't lockout the thread during the lockout.
I agree. It will be a long time before there is hockey.
Correct me if I am misreading, the league is being unreasonable no?
I agree. It will be a long time before there is hockey.
Correct me if I am misreading, the league is being unreasonable no?
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The take-away is not even Super Mario and Luigiby can save the season.
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I wonder if decertification is next? Possible?
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From what I read on the boards and blogs, they were actually CLOSE today. Then apparently Fehr and his minions deep-sixed any good will/momentum?
Wow.
Wow.
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It's official. I hate the NHL. Going to Avalanche games is always a blast, despite record low attendance the past several years. I was at the Capitals home opener last season, and it was the most intense crowd I've ever witnessed. I want hockey, please! We all want hockey, please stop the shenanigans and get shit together.
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Cam Cole who writes for the Vancouver Province wrote a nice piece about the recent negotiations.
And I agree, looks like it was more an "act" and ploy than anything else. There was never meant to be a deal. Ever.
And I agree, looks like it was more an "act" and ploy than anything else. There was never meant to be a deal. Ever.
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There are no games...
The sizzle in the Steak
Players sealed their fate and the leagues when they hired Fehr.
Fehr makes the Count look like a saint.
Fehr makes the Count look like a saint.
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Just heard an interview with "Toronto Maple Leaf" James Van Reisdyk. I was was that a misquote?
Then I remembered. It's nice that I can't remember how bad the Leaf line-up is. I hope this lock out lasts forever Soon I'll forget the 7 straight years of no playoffs, the Ron Wilson era and hopefully the Brian Burke era. Maybe all I'll ever be able to remember is that that no call on Wayne in 93.
Then I remembered. It's nice that I can't remember how bad the Leaf line-up is. I hope this lock out lasts forever Soon I'll forget the 7 straight years of no playoffs, the Ron Wilson era and hopefully the Brian Burke era. Maybe all I'll ever be able to remember is that that no call on Wayne in 93.
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I know it can be argued that its apples an oranges, I can't say for certain that Fehr is or isn't the problem. But what I can argue is that this is Bettman's 3rd lock out and likely second cancelled season. At some point he has to steady the ship. We all saw this coming for 5 years now. Sure the players were a mess but he's he man driving the ship. He's done nothing to steady it. He did nothing to repair that relationship over the last 6 years.
And last night we saw the 4 year Bettman pout like Donald Fehr just stole his ice cream. IMO it's very clear who the hell has to go. How a league that has so many unstable franchises, so many bleeding money and so many for sale continues to support the man that put them in this mess in the first place.
Remember they overwhelming WON the last lock out!!!!. Gary got them that win, got them that cost certainty and here they are crying poor 6 years later. I don't doubt they're losing money. I just cant comprehend how the man that steered them into this mess in the first place is allowed to continue on and drive them into whats likely another ditch. Some things can never be explained I guess.
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dom will now become a heart and soul Raptors fan. They'll be good...someday.
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And who are the Argos? And what's this gray-colored Cup?
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Given the crap and bad news all around lately, here's some comedy:
Alex Yashin named GM of Russia's women hockey team...
Story here: http://www.tsn.ca/canadian_hockey/story/?id=411167
Alex Yashin named GM of Russia's women hockey team...
Story here: http://www.tsn.ca/canadian_hockey/story/?id=411167
I feel the need...
And last night we saw the 4 year Bettman pout like Donald Fehr just stole his ice cream. IMO it's very clear who the hell has to go. How a league that has so many unstable franchises, so many bleeding money and so many for sale continues to support the man that put them in this mess in the first place.
Another thing that bugs the crap out of me is the constant refrain of woe is the Billionaire owner. Guess what? Mega-rich dudes don't buy sports teams to print money. It is a vanity purchase. Sure the Ontario Teachers Pension doesn't want to lose money on their investment, but ownership like that is the exception, not the rule. Does Rogers want to make money, absolutely. But if he happen to have a few seasons of losses he earns so much in other parts of the empire that if his sports team reports an accounting loss, his accountant treats it as a nice tax write off.
It does amaze me how the board of governors is constructed to give a clown like Bettman and a couple of crotchety grinch-like owners so much power. That needs to change. If they lose this season and I think they will, I am probably going to puke my season tickets, that is the only way fans can register disgust at this farce.
The sizzle in the Steak
....and at the same time, however, how can the NHLPA ask for north of 50% for a 4th tier professional sport with a straight face.
That is insanity.
Bottom line is the Count is evil, he ran the league into the ground. Nonsense expansion, and dumbing down of the sport, and not being able to come up with CBA's that actually make sense in the long run. He's hand tied the league with short term half-assed agreements that come back to bite everyone in the @ass every few years.
Meanwhile the players, bunch of numbskulls mixed with primadonnas hit the nuclear button and hire Fehr. Congratulations players, sure the top tier players will do fine, mid to lower players...you are screwed. Not only did you lose good $$, but now you lost another season, and you will have to compete in a market place that has twice the draft talent coming in....that will play better than you, for a lower $$$$.
Say hello to early retirement....but hey, you did the right thing sacrificing your career for the likes of the superstars, right?
Bags of hammers....all of them.
That is insanity.
Bottom line is the Count is evil, he ran the league into the ground. Nonsense expansion, and dumbing down of the sport, and not being able to come up with CBA's that actually make sense in the long run. He's hand tied the league with short term half-assed agreements that come back to bite everyone in the @ass every few years.
Meanwhile the players, bunch of numbskulls mixed with primadonnas hit the nuclear button and hire Fehr. Congratulations players, sure the top tier players will do fine, mid to lower players...you are screwed. Not only did you lose good $$, but now you lost another season, and you will have to compete in a market place that has twice the draft talent coming in....that will play better than you, for a lower $$$$.
Say hello to early retirement....but hey, you did the right thing sacrificing your career for the likes of the superstars, right?
Bags of hammers....all of them.
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Wow, tell us how you really feel!
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Heard one of the big sticking points now, is that the league wants to do away with all already signed long contracts, they're still mad about the Louuuuuuuuuuu and Kovalsuck deals. They let it happen, they need to suck it up, and put a stop to it from here on in, but you can't void contracts that are already signed...
I feel the need...
As for voiding contracts, just look at all the peeps who walked away from their underwater mortgages without much personal consequence. Hey, I had a change of heart, this is a bad deal and Mr. Burns just don't wanna pay.
PS for what its worth, I think Kovie is worth the $$$. Lou, not so much.
The sizzle in the Steak
^^ After all, Kovie wanted to play for a winner, and his gigantic contract got him the Stanley Cu........errrr....wait.....never mind.
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Good thing Marty B got that 2 year deal, he'll be 67 by the time the lockout's over
The sizzle in the Steak