kurtatx

Agreed on that for sure. The spelling is atrocious. I found the source after a correspondent from one of those change.org surveys sent it to the signers.

fsttyms1

Fixed for accuracy.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol that's fine if it's turbocharged.

MTEAZY

They brought over the Euro Civic hatch before (not Type R).. but at that time HondaNA actually cared about enthusiasts.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

In fact, they cared so much they gave us an engine with 52hp less then the car we really wanted.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

sorry but the Civic Si hatch was far from being a Type R.

crazyasiantl

iTrader: (7)

Read on motor authority that the Civic is supposed to get the turbo four in 2016, but it won't be in the SI. I think Honda is too late on this one.



For some reason, my iPad won't let me copy/paste the link.

fsttyms1

When are they ahead of the curve?

RPhilMan1

Meaning it would be an all-new trim with the turbo four, or...? I couldn't see them putting it into a regular Civic.

What would the Si get?

U.S.-Spec Honda Civic To Receive Turbo Four From Global Civic Type R: Report

Oh I see, it might be a Type R here!

AZuser

2016? That would mean they're going to put it in the 10th gen, if the 9th gen gets its usual 5 year model run (2011-2015).

My guess is they'll stick the 1.5 L turbo that Honda announced last year in the regular/non-Si trims. If that happens, what will the Si get, the 280 HP+ 2.0 L turbo? I don't see that happening.

Or it could be 1.0 L turbo in non-Si trims and 1.5 L turbo in Si. Yeah, that's probably it.

Honda Worldwide | November 19, 2013 "Honda Develops VTEC TURBO Direct Injection Gasoline Turbo Engine That Achieves Class-leading Output and Environmental Performance"

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I heard Honda is making the 9th gen Civic a 4-year cycle (2012-2015) car since it's been average at best. The 2016 Civic will be a 10th gen model that we will probably see as soon as next year.

I'm guessing the regular trims (LX, EX, EX-L, Touring) will get the 1.5L Turbo which is probably good for 160hp. The Si might get the higher tune version of the 1.5L turbo good for 200hp. We might see a something similar to a Type R with the 2.0L turbo engine with 250-300hp?

I also heard that there will be no more Civic coupes, that the Si will be a hatch back, and that Honda will reintroduce the Prelude nameplate which is essentially a replacement for the Civic coupe. Don't shoot the messenger please.....

TacoBello

Shoot the messenger?? That's awesome news!

I way prefer a civic hatch over a coupe, plus, bringing the prelude back would be so gangster. The prelude was always the test bed for new honda technologies, and it was the most gangster car a 16-19 year old could desire, back in my youthful days

Now that I can actually afford one, I'd be all over it!! Please Honda, listen to your consumers for once and give us what we want!!

AZuser

I wonder what body style Si has sold better, the hatch or the coupe? The last Si hatch was the 7th gen and I don't think it did too well either. At least I didn't see too many of those around. Loved that hatch body style too. I've seen more Si's in coupe form than hatch so I wonder whether that's a good idea or not, at least for the U.S. market. The Euro market might be different hence why they have had the hatch over there for several generations now.

TacoBello

I liked that body style too, however, I think that car was fundamentally flawed and hence why it didn't sell well. Issues with it were:

1. Only the top of the line model was a hatchback and as we all know, top of the line models don't sell nearly as well as less optioned ones, simply due to price.

2. The civic was always below Acura's integra/RSX. That meant that it was destined to only be a fraction of what the RSX was at the time in order for the civic not to eat RSX sales. Top end civic = base model RSX. Paying top dollar for a car that was essentially a base model RSX was hard for people to choose.

3. Lack of a 6MT, LSD, and 200hp made the car not overly desirable. The next gen civic Si coupe corrected that, albeit at the cost of losing the RSX.

You may see way more Si coupes (8 gen on newer) as compared to the 7 gen Si hatch, because they offered a hell of a lot more for essentially the same money.

AZuser

There wasn't much of a difference between the 6th gen Si coupe and the 7th gen Si hatch and I saw and still see way more of the 6th gen Si coupes than the 7th gen Si hatches. Maybe The Fast and the Furious played a part in its popularity.

BurnabyTSX

I was under the impression that the 7th gen Si hatch only came with the K20 engine, which pushed it well into RSX pricing territory. For a few bucks more, most buyers would easily pick the RSX over the Civic for the nameplate alone; let alone the nicer interior/exterior.

The Si coupes had the B/D-series engines, and were much cheaper.

TacoBello

Yes, this is correct. I think in the 8th gen, although pricing may have not changed much, the car came with a lot more because the RSX was axed. I remember looking at the 7th gen hatchback at the dealerships and wanting one so bad, until I saw the price. I was blown away by how much they were asking.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

How much were they asking then ?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

2002 Civic Si Hatch was MSRP $19000.
2002 RSX Base was MSRP $19950.

No wonder the Civic Si didn't sell well...lol. It's a shame that the Civic Si hatch wasn't even close to the Euro Civic Type R. It got downgraded by way too much to be very desirable. I still think it looks sort of like a mini minivan....

Back on topic, latest rumor I heard regarding the new CTR is that it will have 318bhp.

TacoBello

I remember being in a honda dealership in BC back in about 2002, if I remember correctly, and the car was advertised for 27,000 + government sales tax + provincial sales tax + whatever other fees. That is one damn expensive civic.

You guys down south have it so much better. Cars are easily jacked up in price by 5k as soon as they cross the border.

TacoBello

To the front wheels? This should be interesting.

Or, I wonder if it'll go AWD. Hey, it could happen

oonowindoo

TLX V6 has 290hp...

and you think Honda will have a Civic with 318hp in the US?

I think 240hp is more realistic...

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yeaa, it was expensive in Canada. I think it's even more expensive than a base RSX?

haha I think it's FWD. It will be interesting to see how the car handles that power.

I could dream right..ha! Then again, the 1G TL had 200hp I think, and the Integra Type R had 195? So who knows...may be somewhere around 300hp..??

oonowindoo

i highly highly doubt it...

i would love for them to introduce a 300hp CTR...but at the same time they can just pack up their revised ILX and go home.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

haha I see what you mean, but they would be for different markets?

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

When would Honda make a bold move?

Like Ford finally shooting out the Focus RS in the States.

oonowindoo

based on the current 200hp Si pricing. a Type R with 300hp is not going to be cheaper than a ILX. Acura badge does not really cost that much more than Honda's, if anything Type R badge costs more than Acura.

while they are in the different market but the target group is not that much different at that level and at that price, and that is especially true for Honda/Acura buyers.

oonowindoo

if Honda really wants to bring the 300hp CTR to the States, they must put that engine in one of the trims of ILX...

or it will be another win for Honda and lose for Acura

00TL-P3.2

That could work.
CTR in a coupe/hatch, ILX-R for the sedan.

TacoBello

Yeah the TLX puts out 290hp to the front wheels, but being an "R" car, he civic will likely have an "R" button that makes the car all kinds of stupid (revised throttle response, etc). That alone will be a big difference between a luxury oriented sedan and a sport oriented hatch, which also will weigh less.

Think about it- Honda could easily break the 300hp mark with the 3.5L, even infinity was doing it a decade ago with theirs, but Honda chooses to keep their front wheel drive cars below 300hp and I think a good reason for that is drivability. 300+ hp to the rear wheels is a normal walk in the park these days.

Also- didn't Honda announce the Type R was coming to North America? Or was I dreaming?

Ken1997TL

They've been teasing us with the idea of a CR-Z with nearly 300 hp too...

TacoBello

That's fine. I'll continue to tease them with my pocket book until they start producing cars worth buying.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I agree that the Type R badge is worth more $ than the Acura badge. The Type R is also rarer too so that would further inflate the cost.


I think I will have to disagree with your second point though. The "normal" ILX (base, tech, advance) would be for someone looking for a entry luxury sedan that is affordable, high on feature content, has some high end features, reasonable level of NVH, and decent ride comfort. Basically, a comfortable, semi-luxury compact A to B sedan. A CTR on the other hand is for car enthusiasts who enjoy driving a lot, cares a lot about driving fun, wants a powerful engine that sounds good, a responsive chassis, etc. These people would place ride comfort, high end features, NVH on a lower priority.

Now, putting a variation of that engine in the ILX would be ideal too. It can be called the ILX Type S. Acura can give it 250-300hp, offers 6MT as an option, and retains the features from the other ILX trims. The handling characteristic should be somewhere between a real Type R and a normal ILX.
In short, the ILX-S should be a car that has a decent amount of power with a strong focus on driving fun without sacrificing too much ride comfort while keeping the pricing at a reasonable level.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I think the idea is to bring that engine over. What tune will it be in, and what car will have that engine is still unknown.

TacoBello

I just pray for the day we see something with either a Type-S or Type-R badge on these shores again. Sigh...

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Same...

kurtatx

The news article in the NSX thread makes it sound like Honda will be bringing over the turbos to their small cars. Unfortunately, it's not particularly specific about Acuras getting the same treatment.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

We won't know for sure until things become official but I can see the ILX getting the 1.5T and 2.0T, the TLX getting the 2.0T, and the RDX getting the 2.0T in the future.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

I hope they kill ILX and bring back RSX Type-S with the turbo 4.

ILX looks like an ass to be honest. I've seen ILX in LA like three times in LA for the past year.

kurtatx

But maybe make it really good and call it the Integra. ILX just sounds cheap. For the current model, it's certainly appropriate.