Mizouse

imo, rwd isnt necessary for acura to be taken seriously, their route of awd is good enough. look at audi.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

Although, after joining an Audi Board, I've heard some of those guys complain that audi should have a RWD platform and ditch AWD. To that I responded that Quattro is their heritage and claim to fame. Their problem is not offereing strong enough powerplants in certain vehicles to compete with bimmer and merc.

csmeance

But Audi's system is much better than the SH-AWD in terms of power robbery. SH-AWD robs almost 30% of the power. Acura needs to re-evaluate it and make it more efficent, for example sending power to the rear wheels at 70% and fronts at 30%, instead of vice versa.

Jackygor

Or the engine is just not powerful enough. I don't think the AWD has to be RWD biased, just look at STI and Evo X. With the new Evo X, the AWD even allows you to drift!

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

SH-AWD robs almost 30% of the power? Where did you get that from? I doubt that it robs that much power, considering the 290hp RL with over 4000lbs is as fast as a 3500-3600lbs 2nd gen TL-S/3rd gen TL AT with about 260hp (all can do the 1/4mile in high 14's at around 95-96mph). Also the RDX with only 240hp/260lbft and 4000lbs can hit 0-60 in 6.2s and 1/4mile in 14.8s according to Motortrend, while C&D obtained 6.5s/15s. Even the 4600-4700lbs MDX can do 0-60 in 7.1s and 1/4mile in 15.5-15.7s with only 300hp.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^ It may not be the SH-AWD, but Honda automatic transmissions are notorious for high parasitic loss. Look at some dyno charts, and the difference between flywheel hp and wheel hp is rather significant.

Costco

Not sure what the next gen (B8) S4 is gonna be like, but I'm convinced that there's nothing Acura can come up with that would make me want a 4G TL-S over an S4 barring catastrophic reliability issues with the S4.

What a shame. They engineer the best FWD platforms, but can't even use their existing technologies to make something that can dominate. They should put a dry-sump oiling system on the K23 so they can plop it under the hood of the TSX.

As for the TL.... seeing what the MMC RL and FMC TSX are looking like, the future looks grim.

Costco

AWD usually results in more drivetrain loss than RWD and even more than FWD. The 1/4 mile times can largely be attributed to the AWD launch, resulting in little or no wheelspin at all. The RL is rated at 290 hp and neuronbob dyno'd it stock, and it made 190whp (which is about the same as what the 2G TL-S/3G TL dyno at) which actually makes it a 35% drivetrain loss for the RL.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3731

Honda automatic transmissions/transaxles rob a lot of power.

mrdeeno

fixed.

mrdeeno

For the near luxury segment, I don't think RWD is necessary either, but it makes things less costly and easier to offer higher HP levels without necessarily compromising on one or the other (want higher HP? gotta deal with a more expensive, heavy, parasitic AWD system...want to spend less money because you don't need/want AWD? gotta go with the lower HP model).

But when you get to the mid-luxury level and above, RWD is key. Look at all the competitors in this segment and there is a convincing correlation between RWD models succeeding (GS, M, E-class, 5-series) vs FWD based AWD models which are not not (S8, A6, RL). RWD isn't the golden touch that'll automatically make a non-succeeding model succeed (see s-type), but it definitely is one of the factors that leads to better success.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

That's for sure, that's why 6MT models are about 0.5s faster to the 1/4 mile at a few mph faster.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

"I'm sure the results would have been higher on a Dynojet. "

The results for the 3G TL AT were dyno'ed using Dynojet, according to TOV. It would be nice if we could see the numbers of the RL on a Dynojet.

I guess some of you guys misunderstood my post. If you read csmeance's post, he said, "SH-AWD robs almost 30% of the power." So, I'd assume that he's just talking about the SH-AWD alone, not the whole drivetrain loss. I understand that in a normal 5AT TL, you'd lose like 25% power already. If you add another 30% to that, that's 55%, which I don't think is true. Losing 30-35% on the other hand, for the whole drivetrain, including SH-AWD and the 5AT, make more sense. I hope this clear up things a bit.

csmeance

Look at nueronbob's 4 wheel dyno, RL is rated at 290, he got around 190 something at the wheels.

csmeance

I don't think that there is a 4 wheel drive dynojet, unless an RL member wanted to disconnect their driveshaft to get a 2WD reading.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

I hope that statement was a joke.

http://www.dynojet.com/automotive_dy...o/default.aspx

http://www.dynojet.com/automotive_dy...o/default.aspx

Edward'TLS

The car shop simply has to purchase a 4WD attachment to the 2WD dynojet to dyno 4WD vehicles. No rocket science involved.

MeehowsBRZ

Did Acura stop releasing concept sketches of their cars because they know it all looks like crap and don't want to hear everyones complaints until the actual car is released?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea I understand the total drivetrain loss would be around 30%, but not the SH-AWD alone, as in SH-AWD is around 10%, and 5AT is 20%, or something like that.

Mokos23

i'm betting again that the next TL may look more like an evolution of the current TL like the TSX did. they'll keep possibly the same side profile with the crease on side with the doors, but they'll widen it more and make it as long as the current US Accord sedan since it will be based off that again. it sucks that we probably have to wait until this summer until there could be possible pics of the new TL in camo.

phile

I think it's the other way around. the sketches look great. But then you see the actual prototype and it's such a let down *coughPilotcough*

Mokos23

funny that there were no sketches of the 09 TSX/Euro Accord. no, the sports4 doesn't count.

Acuraboy7

I dunno if 40K is worth it but that is why they are making an AWD and FWD the choice of the buyer! The gas is gonna suck I had an MDX for a week and that 3.7 egn is a PIG!

SeCsTaC

I'm guessing the AWD + SUV has more to do with the shitty mileage than the 3.7

majin ssj eric

If they woulda just made the Sports4 concept....

chill_dog

This just popped up in the thread in 3G...it's from the new issue of Car and Driver.

dom

Interesting.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

Fixed.

FiveLiterCheater

The wheels are huge...

Mokos23

yikes my worst fears have come true!!! the RL, TSX, and now TL will have that hideous grill!!

if that is indeed the 09 TL, it just looks like the 09 TSX with different rims.

FiveLiterCheater

Ok, that has to be a CGI or something....look how much bigger the rear wheel is compared to the front? Maybe its an artists' concept? Who knows...I know my next car will be an 06' E46 M3 so i'm not concerned

long live the sexy sleek design of the 3G TL and 1G TSX i guess

Edward'TLS

This is good news, now Acura has finally unified the look for all it's car, even though the signature grill is in no way attractive. Strike one for Acura on brand identity.

phile

If you guys can't tell that that's an 08 TSX from the side and an 09 TSX at the front, Im going to start referring to you all collectively as msl.

LuvMyTSX

Yeah, I'm gonna have to go with Phile on this one. I think that's the TSX.

csmeance

looks like a sebring rear end, accord sides and a TSX front... and the rims are off the ASCC.

neuronbob

at that pic. Will reserve judgement until the new TL is actually unveiled.

As far as SH-AWD, I indeed calculated a 35% drivetrain loss based on the dyno results on my RL. I'm quite sure that Honda has figured a way to get more power to the ground.

SRK85

Lol looks like a G6 all aboard the fail boat

Mokos23

This "Fail" term has become really popular here on AZ

JediMindTricks

Costco

Edward'TLS

What is "msl" ?