Mokos23

if the RL, MDX, RDX, and TSX are all button-happy, the new TL will be the same. that is their new console scheme. still dumb that they moved away from the touch screen.

i would get the 08 TL type S too. wow, people here on AZ are making the 2007-2008 TL-S and regular TL seem like they will be collectors items just like the 2008 TSX is currently due to the ugly redesigned TSX coming in less than 2 weeks now.

JediMindTricks

yea you're right...the TL will be the same.

it's funny because typically, when a new model comes out, people want to get rid of their cars and "upgrade'' to the newer model. we haven't seen a lot of that with the TSX owners.

ostrich

The new TL is my LAST hope for Acura for now.... they messed up the new RL and new TSX so badly (look at the grille! ewwww!) that I truly hope that this new TL will be an absolute stunner.

Moog-Type-S

Don't hold your breath.

Mokos23

i am betting that ostrich will be driving an Infiniti or BMW in the future cause the future of Acura is bleak and sorry it will have the same ugly grill.

Edward'TLS

TL Type-S ? Probably another 2.5 years after the new TL model is launched. As with the 2nd gen and 3rd gen TL's, the Type-S is only added at the MMC (mid-model-cycle) update.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I think he meant to say buy the current TL-S now cause the next TL won't be too exciting.

JediMindTricks

"but now's the time to jump on the TL Type-S." = current type-s. now.

TMQ

I start to wonder about this forum. Too many one word or one line replies. Lots of random thoughts.

Anyway, although we know little about the actual car, the current trends at Acura are not good. For those who want performance, the stuff that's coming doesn't seem to be impressive. It's more or less me too of the other cars.

I have these questions:

- Will the vehicles be more fuel efficient? Not just a 1mpg improvement.

- Will a 6sp manual be available for FWD and AWD versions? It will be a huge disappointment if the AWD version does not have manual.

- Will a 6sp auto be available? It's about time.

- Will a sport package be available? If the MDX has one, shouldn't the sport sedan?

- Will the SHAWD be more RWD based? At least 50% during normal operation?

- Will the SHAWD be improved so that torque vectoring occurs not only during acceleration, but also during braking? BMW's X6 now showcases the DPC system that does that.

If the answers are: no, no, no, well, then we know what the future will hold for Acura.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Good questions, but we know too little to answer any of the above with confidence. I think I'm pretty sure about is that the sport package will come in as a A-spec package?

mrdeeno

Nah, I think we know enough about ACURA to answer the above questions...

Will the vehicles be more fuel efficient? Not just a 1mpg improvement.

- Will a 6sp manual be available for FWD and AWD versions? It will be a huge disappointment if the AWD version does not have manual.
No.
Considering how conservative Acura is, we should be thankful they offer a 6spd at all. If they do offer a 6spd manual, it will most likely be limited to the FWD model because 1) Acura probably predicts only minority of sales to be AWD, so why even make a sliver of a sliver of models with a manual tranny...considering how conservative Acura is, they would not. and 2) Can SH-AWD even be paired to a 6spd manual? considering how long it took Honda just to pair a 6spd manual to its FWD V6, I doubt they intended to ever pair a manual to SH-AWD.


- Will a 6sp auto be available? It's about time.
No.
I wouldn't expect a new tranny until at least the next gen. RL.


- Will a sport package be available? If the MDX has one, shouldn't the sport sedan?
Probably as a dealer installable A-spec kit (rims/tires, suspension, cosmetic), but probably won't be as extensive as the MDX sport (not dealer installable, probably because of the adjustable suspension settings).


- Will the SHAWD be more RWD based? At least 50% during normal operation?
Technically, no, but probably moot.
Even in the retuned MMY RL, it's not RWD biased...from my understanding, it is still 70-30 default but tuned to be more responsive, especially in 1st gear. This may make the RWD bias argument moot, but my idea of RWD bias would be at LEAST 50/50 default split, and NO MORE than 50% to the front wheels at any time.

- Will the SHAWD be improved so that torque vectoring occurs not only during acceleration, but also during braking? BMW's X6 now showcases the DPC system that does that.
No.
The only time SH-AWD would be "active" is when there is positive torque (ie under acceleration or cornering). Any other time, such as off-acceleration or braking, the stability control system can theoretically be used to control the speed of rotation of each tire to induce yaw. Kinda like reverse SH-AWD...instead of sending torque to accelerate the outside wheel in a turn, it scrubs speed to decelerate the inside wheel in a turn, which is how it works now for "stability" safety reasons, but I don't htink it has been applied for handling performance yet.

s55lear

Actually, Honda/Acura had a 6spd manual in 94 on the Acura Legend LS Coupe and GS sedan.

Who else had a luxury sport sedan with a 6spd manual gearbox in 94?

mrdeeno

I guess I should've been more clear. Look how long it took Honda to pair a manual transmission to the J-series V6 engine in a transverse layout.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

^Haha, you are being too picky man.

May be for once Acura is not so "conservative."

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...llCars/232305/

Costco

BMW had it in 1989 with the E34 M5. It was only on the Euro M5 (we always get screwed) but nonetheless....

mrdeeno

what's the saying..."the proof is in the pudding" or something? Acura has talked "big" for the last 5+ years, and still no "pudding". For all we know, Dec. 2009 comes and Acura could say, "Due to market conditions, we abandoned V8/V10 design, went back to the drawing board for the NSX successor, and will focus on FWD sedans and AWD SUV's".

Like is stated many many times among these threads about Acura...less talk and more action.

Edward'TLS

Honda won't make the same "mistake" twice !

SRK85

Hmm most Japanese cars don't look that good anyways. The TL is eh, the IS sucks, GS ok, LS ok, ES ok, G35 not bad but interior sucks, M ok, and thats about it. If I was looking in the same price range of a TL I would much rather have an A4, newC klasse, or 3 series. I just hope the TL actually looks good for once and offers decent fuel economy.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

On that note I give you a discussion over at Audizine about the A4 vs TL:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=204372

Scroll down, there are some interesting pictures of a TL that got demolished by a mini. I coudl have sworn I've seen those pics on AcuraZine. The TL owner's brother is a member of Audizine from what I read in the thread.

yohan81718

TL and A4, C class and 3 series are not in the same class. What's the point of comparing cars based on their price range???? On a side note, C class looks quite ugly inside out (except C63 AMG... and possibly alpine white C350 with black rooftop)

Sounds like you'll prefer european over japanese regardless of brands/look/performance/etc.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

It's more like people coming up with those rumours rather than Honda making them up. Sometimes I think Honda is like polyphony digital, delay, delay and delay, but he end result is pretty good.

titan

Yes they are.

JediMindTricks

the TL may be a bit bigger (although the A4 should be closer in size now), they're still in the same entry level class and price range.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

the A4, C and 3 series are all in the same class. The TL kinda hovers between the A4 and A6, and the 3 and 5 series in terms of size. But price it's perfectly matched against the A4 and 3 series. Granted the TL doesn't have the luxury of so many availalble options which can bring up the pricing of the A4, C, and 3 series, that doesn't mean it doesn't compete with them in sales.

alphason'sac

That was interesting. I love the fact that the picture of the wrecked TL says that the Mini was "only" going 45-55 MPH. The Audi must be "Super-Duper Strong" If it could take the same hit from a ~3000 lb vehicle traveling that fast to the SIDE better than the Acura did. If the driver walked away, then that proves how safe the car was. Sorry to go OT.

Back OT:

YAY Acura 2009 TL w/ SH-AWD & 300+ HP?

mrdeeno

^^word...cars are MADE to crumple. Nothing sheetmetal is made to withstand in impact...it's the work of the hidden collision beams and frame underneath all that sheetmetal that matters. But then again, most people think a car that doesn't crumple is safer in an accident just because, well, they're dumb.

krio

The RL was killed the first day it was presented 4 years ago... Amen.
And we know that is not the problem of same power: all the luxury brands have same power for different model ranges...
It's NOT the TL the problem for the RL, is the RL the problem for the TL.
Looking for the RL 2011 V8...

yohan81718

A4, C and 3 are... TL is not. TSX would fit into those categories. Like you said, TL fits somewhere between A4-A6 and 3-5.

Edward'TLS

Let me sum it up.

Sizewise, A4, C-class, and 3-series belong to the TSX class (compact); A6, E-class, 5-series belong to the TL class (mid-size).
Pricewise, A4, C-class, and 3-series belong to the TL catergory. It's like what you can buy on the market when you have around $35K give or take a few K's.

The pricewise comparison is the most commonly used method in the auto world because it does a better job of reflecting how people buy cars. People don't usually cross-shop between a $50K E350 with a $35K TL even through they are roughly of the same size.

mrdeeno

Based on your logic, the Accord, TL, and RL are all competitors, along with the camry, Sonata, Taurus, Malibu, etc. etc. and this makes no sense.

Convention, especially when speaking of "premium" brands, comparison/segment is based on price. The TSX and the TL compete in the same NEAR LUXURY segment against the A4, C, and 3-series. The TSX competes on the lower end of that segment while the TL competes in the upper end of that segment. The BMW 1-series also competes in this segment...but at the lower end of it much like the TSX with the 3-series competing at the upper end. Once you throw size into the equation, it's a free-for-all and you can't compare anything anymore...no one cross shops Malibu's and Maserati's or MB's and Kias, even if the cars being compared are "equivalent size".

JediMindTricks

sometimes, there's a reason why everyone says one thing and one person says another.

mrdeeno

maybe he's fightin' the power??

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

You're basing solely on size and that isn't the dominating factor in the ssales of these vehicles it's the price.

That's why a comparitively sized hyundai doesn't necessarily compete with a Lexus of the same size. it's the price. If someone is looking to spend $70K on a car why would a hyundai be considered in their list of cars to choose from just because it's the ssame size? :ghey:

SRK85

Nah I just wish the Japanese had better looking cars. So far the best Japanese looking car according to me is the GS. I just think they are not aggressive looking.

biker

So the Genesis will be cross shoped with a 3 series?

I don't buy a car based on price - I buy based on needs, specs and features.

biker

TSX is not a compact - it's at the lower end of the scale but it is a mid sized car. And with the larger 09, it's even more in the mid sized category.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

The way you buy them is different than how they are marketed by the auto manufacturers. I follow your format in buying a car too. My comments are for the general market.

Edward'TLS

Unfortunately, the '08 C-class and the '09 A4 have also grown in size to be reclassified as mid-size cars. So sizewise, the three are still together in the same size class.

majin ssj eric

If Acura ever wants to be taken seriously again there are a couple of very easy things they have to do (Infiniti has already figured this out btw):

RWD in the TL and TSX. Not AWD. 300+hp minimum in the TL and 240+ in the TSX (V6 Acura, V6!!!). All powertrains available with 6-sp manual.

V8 in the RL with at least 350 hp and, again, RWD. Otherwise they might as well scrap the model.

Styling that doesn't make me want to drop mercury into my eyes.

Develop a proper NSX (ie mid-engine) to compete with the GT-R and LF-A.....

Thats it. Simple. But they will never do it (sigh)....