alright, i'm stupid. what am i supposed to be looking for in this pic?
are we talking about a regular key or something else?

 

look at the ignition slot. Key looks to be an integrated design. I even see signs of chrome on the key (or is that just me?)

 

pretty hard for me to tell....the pic is so dark

 

Acura should've made the FOB Lasercut key a few yrs ago on all the Acuras; TSX, TL, RSX, MDX, NSX, CL, and RL when they first started appear on the 7th gen Accord back in late 2002.

 

Except the red really doesn't bother me. I think it looks pretty cool. I like the exterior too. Nice update to an already great looking car. Only that that worries me is the FWD with the increased power and torque. I'd definetely have to test drive it first.

I'm just kind of glad that they waited a few years before releasing the Type-S version. I got my 05 in November of 04, and would have been highly pissed if they released the Type-S version a few months later.

 

This is getting interesting. I don't think anyone knows when the Type-S will be available on showrooms ... if it's in the fall, I'm sure the pricing on them will be more negotiable in the spring. News of this car has tainted my aspirations for a new G35 (1st yr Nissan / Infiniti build quality concerns). Pricing on an IS, in my opinion, are grossly over-exaggerated.

Definitely be on my test-drives list when I am ready for a car purchase. Just waiting for the CAD$ to increase further in value against the greenback to make a large currency exchange. (ie I'm buying my next car in the US...)

 

Might as well keep your 04, or you'll be pissed when the 4G TL comes out in 2008...

This make over is just a MMC (Minor Model Change), with the Full Model Change coming in another couple of years.

http://vtec.net/modelmatrix/

 

Of course, then there will be no Type-S and people will bitch and 2-3 years later, out will come the 4th Gen Type-S and the whole cycle starts again

 

The new G35 is designed and built in Japan, so most of the time I think stuff made in Japan has better build quality than if it's built in the USA. The TL has been built in Ohio since 1999 and they've had tranny and auto transmissions problems. But, I guess the TL-S is a 6MT, so I guess it's alright.

 

Thats the weird part, the tranny is made in japan

 

It was touted by some old ACURA-TSX.COM members when the new TL/RL were getting ready to launch...before this board went acurazine.

I suppose that's not enough credibility...how about vtec.net's first drive of the TL?

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...icle_id=151671

 

I own a 2002 TL-S, as well as being a moderator of the 2nd gen TL board. While the build quality of the UA5 from the Marysville, OH plant has some faults, I cannot merely assume because it's built in the US, the build quality is not up to par to Japan. Tranny issues with Accord AV6 & J32A are well-documented. I'm still on my first tranny :knockonwood: and I've only noticed a handful of irregular shifts at 30mph (50km/h). As crazy sellout has mentioned, these suspect trannies are built in Japan. The design is the problem.

Anyway ... yeah, we are all guilty into thinking that Japanese assembled stuff is better than USA built cars. The difference with Nissan is that the Infiniti has more issues with build quality, despite it being assembled in Japan, compared to Honda and Toyota). Check out g35driver board and read what the owners there complain about. I sometimes wish Honda would build more Acuras in Canada. (The Lexus RX are assembled in Canada -- the only Lexus to be assembled outside of Japan, which meets the 'high standard' of the make; Acura builds the 'CSX' ...)

Going back on topic ... I would like to see the car before I start -ing over it. I find it ironic that the 'Type-S' thingy is what got me into an Acura dealership 5 years ago when I bought my car. Haha .... it was the TL-S or an IS300. Five years later, it's almost like deja-vu.

 

aren't the trannys built in japan and then put in the tl here?

 

Comparing base on engine alone, the VQ35 is capable of putting 270 lb-ft, and Lexus 3.5 is a whopping 277 lb-ft. I believe the most torqued 3.5 honda is the RL and the upcomming TL -S which is 256lb-ft.

 

Interesting. But I still don't understand why Honda would design one car before another but release them in the opposite order. Especially considering the TSX/Accord went on sale in more markets globally, you would think it would have taken longer to reach showrooms. That makes no sense.

 

Damn edit time limit....


I'm curious to know where TOV got their information because it isn't mentioned in the article. Yes, the TSX was released before the TL, but the Accord was released abroad before either Acura came to the states. I don't see why Acura would have chosen to sit on the design for so long.

 

This is from Jeff on vtec.net...

 

I posted part of a halfass video of the new 07 TL in the 07 TL thread in the TL section.

 

That still doesn't explain why, since Ikeda designed the TL before the Accord/TSX, we saw the TSX and the Accord on the market so much earlier.

 

so how does that integrated key look like? is it like the RDX key that i i read someone mention? just curious to what it looks like. is the RDX laser cut or just a regular key?

 

Complete and better quality video added:

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...67#post1540367

 

Excellent vid! I'm wondering if any of the new additions to the '07, particulary the AUX input, updated Navi interface and side mirrors, can be added to an '05.

 

True but the TL has to be kept in the context of comparable powertrains (3.5L V6/FWD) from other makes. I am fairly certain that I would not want to apply 277lb-ft to the fronts if I can avoid it. (The 246lb-ft in my 02 Maxima routinely overwhelm the front tires.)

 

Front tires can handle high-torque just fine. You just need to gear it out so that your 1st gear isn't completely overwhelming the traction limit, which is dependent on the contact patch and weight over the front end. The GM LS4 V8 powered FWD cars (Impala SS, Grand Prix GXP, etc) will hit 53 mph in 1st gear, and are just shifting into 3rd by the time they run through the 1/4 mile, at 100+ mph. I know the GXP guys have hit high-13's @ 102-103 mph bone stock in those cars (2.0-2.1 60' time), with 303hp and 323 lb-ft of torque going through the front tires.

They also hardly have any torque steer too, because GM actually knows WTH they're doing on hi-po FWD cars unlike the Japanese.

 

Good point. GM has been manufacturing fairly high torque FWD vehicles for quite some time. The Caddy Seville SLS' LD8 did have 300lb-ft pumping through the fronts back in the mid-90s.

Just make this 2nd on the list of things domestic makes seem to do better....right behind bulletproof automatic trannys.

 

Have you driven one of these things? I drove a Pontiac Grand Prix GT for a week as a rental and that thing, with only the V6, torque steered all over the place.

 

Sure you can dump lots of torque to the front tires and the car still accelerate. But in terms of performance and drivability, it'll be a disaster. The effect of torque steer is felt most when the steering wheel is not straight, such as powering out of corners, or speeding through twisty mountainous passes. It is felt least when the steering wheel is straight, such as 0-60 and quarter mile runs.

The TL is destined to be a sport sedan, not a GM high-power cruiser that's only good at straight line drag races. This is what differential between a true sport sedan and a wannabe sport sedan. Note that the Impala and Grand Prix never get praised for handling performance anywhere in the automotive world, but the lower-torque TL and Altima SE-R do.

When a high-torque FWD car power-accelerates out of a corner, the front tires simply either spin like crazy (without traction control) or the traction control cuts in, thereby slowing down the acceleration considerably. In this case, even a lower-torque FWD car will accelerate out of a corner faster.

If the 1st gear is geared not to overwhelm the traction limit accelerating out of corners, then the car will be too slow peeling out in a straight line. With too much torque at hand, even 2nd gear can break loose the front tires. So it is almost impractical to play around with gearing ratios just to cater to one driving situation while messing up others.

 

I've recently drove a Grand Prix GT and Lucerne rental. Both exhibited torque steer. In fact, I have never driven a FWD car that doesn't exhibit torque steer. It would be awesome if Acura moved to RWD in order to get the balance and weight transfer benefits. I moved to a high performance RWD car and will never buy a FWD car again. IMHO FWD doesn't belong in any type of sporty car. Traction control, Stability Control, and advancements in A/S tire technology have made driving in the snow with a RWD car very easy. I had no problem getting around in my 300whp Mustang this winter on the OEM Pirelli All Seasons. That's usually the typical "pro" for FWD; winter traction.

 

I have no idea what you're talking about, and I used to rent Grand Prixs all the time too back when I used to travel more. What little torque steer there was when nailing it around a corner was nothing to write home about. My Maxima has more torque steer with only 190hp.

 

The last time I surfed through clubgp.com the GXP guys were hitting mid-13's @ 103 mph bone stock. Disaster?

http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtest...-prix-gxp.html

So C&D says torque steer is an issue on a 270 (258) hp TL with a 6spd, but not on a 303hp FWD GM.

I wasn't talking about handling, but the TL is no more or less a "sport sedan" than the GXP is. Big heavy 3600 lb FWD boats with 60+% weight over the front tires never were and never will be sports sedans. Is a Toyota Avalon "Touring" a sport sedan then? lawl They're all just different flavors of wannabe sport sedans (aka fwd boats) and I'd include the 04+ Maxima in that category also. Sure an A-spec TL with summer tires and all the tweaks can handle pretty good, but a base TL with all-seasons pulls the same heavy understeering nose plowing 0.81g around the skidpad that a GXP will. You can put suspension and wheel mods on a GXP too. The Altima is actually not too bad since it still has a base curb weight of under 3300 lbs.

Any idiot can mash the right pedal coming out of a corner and go nowhere as their tires erupt in blue smoke. The point is to know your car and understand its capabilities such that you also know how to drive it. Yes, low torque cars are more idiot proof, but that doesn't make them faster.

The funny thing is, despite the 38% crank torque advantage of the GXP (90 lb-ft worth), the GXP only has about 5% more peak thrust at the wheels in 1st gear vs a 5AT TL, yet the TL has bigger torque steer issues than the GXP does, and the TL is also over a second slower in the 1/4 mile than the GXP is too. The GXP hardly puts down any additional peak thrust to the front tires, but it can put down that thrust for longer and to much higher speeds than the TL can, which has to keep upshifting. That's the difference. And hardly any torque steer.

As far as tweaking gearing, Honda does this all the time on so many of their vehicles. Just look at the gearing particularly on the automatics and you'll see that Honda custom tweaks the gearing for almost every car depending on its weight, the torque curve of the engine, aerodynamics, and typical expected loads. They have specific case scenarios laid out where they want the car to be able to climb a certain grade at highway speeds with a certain load without having to shift out of 5th gear, otherwise it'll be shifting all the time, putting more wear and tear on the tranny, and annoying the customer and giving them the perception that the engine is "too weak" to pull the gearing (never a good thing).

As far as the TL goes, a taller 1st gear or taller gearing in general in the automatic would definitely not be a good thing. It needs to be kept short because Hondas are well known to have pretty bad low-end torque. If you put tallish automatic gearing on an engine with crappy low-end, the result is pure misery. The TL couldn't pull taller gearing - it just doesn't have the torque for it. But the GM LS4 does, and they geared it accordingly, the car performs brilliantly, and gets 28 mpg hwy with the cylinder deactivation to boot. very different engines, with very different powerbands, and therefore very different gearing requirements. What works on one will not work on another. The GXP would probably be a lot slower with the TL's gearing just like the TL would probably be slower with the GXP's gearing.

The GM LS4 has far more power available than a J32A3 or even a J35 does and about the same weight, so I'd never expect a TL to be as quick as these GMs, but the fact that the GMs have such massive power yet so little torque steer just goes to show that the imports should perhaps be taking some notes from GM on how to design a TS-less high-powered FWD car. Clearly there is room for improvement on the import designs. GM has been selling 300hp FWD Northstar V8 caddies to retirees for decades now, and other high-powered FWD cars for decades before that, so experience does count for something.

 

man where did stevtec come back from all of a sudden ?

 

He was busy writing that novel length response

 

Steve I had a 00 Maxima with most of the suspension mods on the market. It was a pretty good handling car on the street, but on the track it understeered like a pig. The front inside tire would lose traction on slower speed turns because of the lack of a LSD. It's basic physics 101 why a FWD is inferior to RWD in terms of handling. The braking system did leave much to be improved on. Now there are a ton more options that are affordable in regards to BBK's. I will say for a track newbie, FWD is very easy to learn on. You can't really upset the suspension unless you really do something stupid, like lift in a corner abruptly. I also have tracked a few RWD cars and depending on the power, they can be a handful. My Mustang can transform from understeer to oversteer with the flick of my right foot. That's something that you FWD are missing. It's definetly not the fastest way throught a corner, but it sure is fun.

 

No disagreement here. My '99 Max (a scant 3100 lbs) is good up to about 8/10ths. At that and beyond, the inescapable FWD traits rear their ugly head. Nose plowing in corners, traction issues and inside wheel spinning on exit (due to no LSD). Only once in over 100k miles of driving this thing have I ever had a serious instance of torque steer. Oh and then I can talk all day about the lousy loose steering feel and the rear beam suspension, but that's just general issues and not talking about FWD anymore.

 

I owned a 98 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP with supercharger mods (probably an additional 30-40 horses and an additional 25-35 torque lbs above the rated 240hp/280 torque) and it displayed very little torque steer, barely noticable and really didn't effect me much when driving hard straight or in corners; on the other hand, the torque steer on the TL is nearly unbearable. Relating to the handling aspects, I know that I'm comparing two very different cars. The GTP could not handle well at all and the steering was loose and overpowered (might be why I did not feel the torque steer). I can't imagine how much torque steer will be experienced with the new TL S.

What I don't understand is how Pontiac designed a rocket that was much more powerful than stock that had significantly less torque steer?

 

Ok, before we move on, are we talking about torque steer in the 3rd gen TL with an MT or an AT?

And MT will exhibit more "torque steer" due in large part to the LSD apportioning the power, which gives a sensation at the steering wheel similar to torque steer but it's really the LSD doing its job.

The AT, on the other hand, does exhibit some torque steer, but compared to a Nissan Maxima, the torque steer is barely noticeable. It exhibited about as much torque steer as I experienced with driving the Grand Prix.

So let's just make that clear because it seems like there might be some comparison being done on two different transmissions. Most car magazines that have driven the TL have opted for the MT so their opinions are not going to count for much in a discussion about the AT transmission.

 

I think I first read this when they first designed the TL for 2004, but a lot of magazine editors thought the readend and the tailpipes reminded them of a Pontiac Grand Prix. So, isn't it ironic that you guys are dissing the TL for being FWD and saying the Japanese have no clue how to build a good FWD while the American carmakers GM can.

 

My eyes have not wavered on my next car being a BMW. The TL just seems too flat for me, not passionate at all to me.

 

My dad had a 1970 Olds Toronado w/ a 455 (7.5L) big block and FWD... that had about 500 lb-ft of torque... FWD burnouts were something to see back then :killer:

I never drove it, but can only imagine what the torque steer must have been...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_Toronado