goldmember

fuck C&D.

gavriil

How can the 325 be on top of the IS300 and the A4 3.0? These C&D people are so stuck on BMWs, it's totally out of control at this point. I have driven all of these cars short of the Saab and I can tell you, the 325 would have been DEAD LAST on my book.

gavriil

CS, let me tell you. The 325 is A DOG! Seriously. There is not torque and there is no HP. There is nothing.

gavriil

I am an inch from feeling that exact way. No matter how unbiased I am trying to be.

gavriil

I went to the dealer today (both Lexus and Acura) to get oil filters for both cars.

I saw a bunch of A-Spec TLs in there. I asked if they were A-Spec-ed, dealer said, they had the body kit installed and the wheels but not the suspension. I also saw no wing. Isnt the A-Spec package supposed to have that too?

Anyway, I have to admit that the body kit makes the car look nicely more aggressive, but mainly from the sides. Not so much on the front and even less on the rear. Actually the stock rear body looks better to me.

The best part was the wheels and the tires. They look great!

A few cars later I saw an RSX ASpec. In a word, RICE! The worst part was a huge sign on the window that read:

FINAL VEHICLE PRICES= $29,965

Yeah sure...

Crazy Bimmer

Im in one almost every weekend, i think they are perfectly fine. Not my first choice for a car, but def feels better than a IS300 . But i still dont know how its ranked so high on that list. I will admit thats fishy also.

95gt

You are looking at the 5-60. That is pretty damn good too, i would have thought it would be slower than the G35 on that spec (G did 7.0)

Its 0-60 was a blistering 5.8. Damn that is quick


A-spec : You did not see an A-spec you saw a TL with a bodykit and wheels. If dealer said it was an a spec he is an ass hat.

Everyone take a good look at the last 2 categories in this review gotta have it and fun to drive. This is where the TL lost (as it was winning overall in all of the categories above it.

Fund to drive i can see (probably would agree that the G is more fun. But gotta have it? This was a blatant attempt to bump up the BMW. And sorry the Audi is way more prestigious than the G35 and it was given a 19 out of 25 while infiniti got 23 out of 25.

I want to hear how much fun the cars are to drive and I think that is a valid category but I don't freaking care what car they would rather be seen in. Has nothing to do with a sports sedan review. F car and driver.

gavriil

If you are in one every other weekend, are you in the driver's seat? Because if you say it feels better than the IS300, I am assuming you refer to the engine power/torque feel mainly. If that's the case, I dont understand how you think that. The IS 300 is not only more powerful on paper, it feels a lot more powerful as well.

gavriil

Now that makes a lot more sense...

gavriil

He said that from the whole ASpec package, we put on the wheels and tires and the body kit. Though, as I wrote, I saw no wing. Why is he an ass hat? This is a dealer installed option. They could have installed part of the kit. No?

gavriil

Totally agree with all of the above.

95gt

installing part of the kit means it is not the a-spec. That is like calling BMW's with M3 wheels M3's. The A-spec is the total package not just the body kit. Can't have an A-spec without the springs. If he has the badge put on the car then he is an asshat. Same as people that put svt badges on regular GT's etc.

95gt

Me no understand eye rolls?

gavriil

The car did not have ASPEC badges anywhere. That's why I asked the dealer. To see if the body kit and wheel/tire package was from the ASPEC kit.

gavriil

I could not believe that someone posted the 5-60 as 0-60 numbers. That's all.

But after looking back, I am now confused. SpeedyV6 posted the Edmunds review which shows 0-60 in 6.5 secs for the TL. Then you talked about that being the 5-60...though I think you referred to a different test. Was it the C&D test? Cos Edmunds does give 6.5 secs for the 0-60 for the TL.

Crazy Bimmer

Half the time i am in the drivers seat since i dont drink so i drive it home from the city most of the time. Its no rocket but the handling and steering make up for that. IMO

Like i always say, theres more to a car than straight line performance.

95gt

yeah my bad, i thought we were discussing C&D. they had 6.5 for the 5-60. Though i have heard Edmunds does their tests without a clutch dump so 6.5 would seem about right as that is close to the 5-60 number.

fender4

see Motortrend,this month,,, a-spec tested in the 5's

dom

Anyone know who this 'leading source for information on consumer products and services" was?

tls02

Consumer Reports!

dom

Then why the hell would'nt Hondanews.com say that in this press release?

Thats a pretty impressive accomplishment.

jlukja

The review is in their February 2004 issue. There are at least two other threads on this:
http://www.acura-tsx.com/forums/show...nsumer+reports
http://www.acura-tsx.com/forums/show...&threadid=5517

dom

Ya I remmeber reading something about the TL in CR on this site.
I guess Honda does'nt want to give CR any free advertising.

blkngld

From Consumer Reports' site:

We accept no advertising and buy all the products we test on the open market. We are not beholden to any commercial interest. Our income is derived from the sale of CONSUMER REPORTS and other publications and information services, and from nonrestrictive, noncommercial contributions, grants, and fees. Our Ratings, reports, and information are intended solely for the use of our readers. Neither the Ratings nor the reports nor any other information, nor the name of Consumers Union or any of its publications, may be used in advertising or for any other commercial purpose, including any use on the Internet or mention in any press releases or newsletters in print or electronic form. Consumers Union will take all steps open to it to prevent commercial use of its materials, its name, or the name of CONSUMER REPORTS.


Generally when someone does everything but name the magazine, people know who is being referred to.

dom

I did'nt

Then again, I really did'nt think about it either. Thanks for the info.

gavriil

The 325 certainly has the reflexes of typical 3 series BMW cars, as far as handling. Actually it could be better in some ways than heavier 3 series car. Though, I never referred to its handling. I referred to it being a "dog". For USA standards, this is a slow car, even with the manual.

bkknight369

after every review/comparison of EVERY bimmer ever, that is always the issue. In fact, thats the rational all RWD under-powered cars are given

"...ya you're fast now...wait till you hit the twisties...then ill own"


excuse me but WHAT FUCKING TWISTIES??? the large majority of peopel who but this or any car will never see a track, and i doubt too many live in mountan areas with the winding roads. Take cali for instance. Most of the bimmers, porches, whatever are sold here...yet you're driving down a fucking freeway, not a XCross track. The MOST fun you'll get out of a "curve-warrior" is taking a right-turn at 45-50 mph.

CnD should have two categories...one for fuzzy happy dream world where people drive down the Dragon's Tail every day to work, and one for real life, where many people are stuck in traffic

im happy in my fast-as-hell fwd thank you very much

heyitsme

Theres a top gear video "RWD vs. FWD vs. AWD" with an audi vs. bmw vs peugeot and they showed how the differences do show up in everyday driving. Its at flixvault but its unavailable right now, obviously not all fwd cars are equal in handling but it was interesting.

Crazy Bimmer

Even going 25mph making a turn i can feel a difference between a RWD car and a FWD car. Guess im the only one. :o

I make a lot turns within a day, not like im automaticly on the expressway.

gavriil

Exactly! That was the major reason why I bought the CLS over the, then, newly presented, 330Ci. Cos it's a better GT than the 330Ci any time, any day where I live. What fucking twisties? Especially in the MidWest.

gavriil

Look. Yes of course there is a difference. Once you pass the 75% handling limit of the CLS you can feel its heavy nose characteristics right away.

1. But as wrote above. What twisties? ANd how many as compared to the..."straights". What is the precentage of you going straight in an average, given day and what is that of you turning?

I mean come on. Let's be realistic.

2. Nowadays even 911s are made to understeer first. Like hell. M3. Same thing. So what's the point already? Braggin rights and the 5% of the time you drive....'in the twisties"?

Thanks. I will keep the $12K and my fast FWD entry luxury GT kicking ass on the highway straights during non-rush-hour times on the way to the airport. Third gear from 80 to 115 for anyone who thinks can play. Like that GS300 on Tuesday and the 323Ci later.

Crazy Bimmer

touche.

Crazy Bimmer

Didnt mean to upset ya Gav.


I was just saying that i make alot of turns, its fun to take a on-ramp fast. Its fun to make a fast right turn on side streets.... thats all i was trying to say. Ill shut up now :o

blkngld

I guess it's not 'common' knowledge, unless you've subscribed to the magazine. :o

A few years back one of Remington's electric razors was ranked number one and they immediately put stickers on every box touting this honor. CU went after them, although I don't recall the outcome.

At the very least, CU could simply refuse to review the product in the future - and there are a lot of people that won't buy a toaster, let alone a car if it doesn't have the CU check mark next to it.

gavriil

If I am upset with anyone, it's C&D. I really wanted to like ALL auto mags. But these guys are just..."looking to be biased upon"

agisd

My feeling is that the 325i with manual is as fast as the auto IS300. One reason is that its gearing is low.

LED Master

CU does not want people to say their product are top ranked by them for some reason, I was at an open house there once, and they said this.

Cool place to visit.

DISRUPTV

heres the thing that ABSOLUTELY KILLS ME!


a few issues back, C&D awarded the ls430 as its winner in a comparo test beating competition such as s430, a8, 745 etc saying the car was perfect and creamy...but now in this issue they are saying that they were looking 4 the sportiest car possible and not the best well rounded car as they did a few issues back in that ultra lux test....

they always have said that they will always look for the car that is sporty 1st and everything else next, if thats the case how can u pick an ls430 over sportier competiton but then say the tl is not well rounded b/c its not sporty enough


pisses me off, i may have 2 cancel my subscription...

heyitsme

Heres another server but its pretty slow right now.
http://www.racingflix.com/getvideo.asp?v=431&p=6

If you hate c$d, don't pick up the latest motortrend, they picked the rx8 1st over the s2000, 3rd.

heyitsme

From CanadianDriver

Driving impressions


Click image to enlarge
The 2004 TL's transversely-mounted 3.2 litre V6 with four valves per cylinder and Honda's VTEC variable valve timing system, is similiar to the one used in the 2003 TL Type S, but it now has a lighter aluminum alloy block, a higher compression ratio, improved air induction and a modified exhaust flow. Horsepower is now 270 at 6200 rpm, 10 more than the 2003 TL Type S and 45 more than the previous TL. Torque is up slightly to 238 lb-ft @ 5000 rpm. Though it has more horsepower, the revised 3.2 litre engine offers the same fuel consumption as the previous engine, and meets stricter emissions standards.

The six speed manual shifter is really a delight: shifts are short, fluid and noiseless, and shifting effort is minimal. However, clutch pedal effort is a bit heavy, and the engagement point is quite far back in the pedal travel. This makes it difficult to engage the clutch smoothly. A sensitive left foot is needed to avoid jerking the car on takeoff. A large dead pedal to left of clutch pedal provides a useful space to rest your left leg while cruising.





Click image to enlarge

Acceleration from 0 to 100 km/h goes by in under seven seconds, according to independent acceleration tests conducted by members of the Automobile Journalists Association of Canada (AJAC). The TL with the manual transmission is almost a second faster to 100 km/h than the TL equipped with the 5-speed automatic.

What's not obvious from these numbers is the way the TL accelerates - torque-steer is generally controlled in a straight line, and the engine is amazingly smooth and quiet even while pressed. As well, there's almost no vibration, and there's very little flex in the body. At highway speeds, the engine is just a hum in the background doing only 2,100 rpm at 100 km/h and 2,600 rpm at 120 km/h in 6th gear.

Fuel consumption is relatively good for a mid-sized performance sedan: 11.7 l/100 km (24 mpg) in the city and 7.7 l/100 km (37 mpg) on the highway. Premium gas is recommended though.

Braking performance is excellent. AJAC braking tests show it stops in just 115 feet from 100 km/h. That's at or near the top of its class. Must be those Brembos...

My test car had the optional 235/45R-17 Bridgestone Blizzak winter tires, and as luck would have it, there was no snow on the West coast in February. However, I did discover that these tires are quite noisy on dry and wet pavement - a high-pitched 'singing' whine which peters out above 100 km/h.

The TL has a comfortable highway ride, despite low profile tires and a sportier suspension. On uneven pavement however, I found the ride stiff. Handling is great up to a point (I've also driven the TL with summer tires) but with its front-wheel-drive layout and more weight over the front wheels, the TL is just not as balanced as a rear-wheel-drive BMW 3-Series or an Infiniti G35. Of more concern to me was the tug-of-war between the engine and the steering under hard acceleration when cornering - not exactly torque-steer, but more torque-influenced. The TL 6 speed includes a limited slip front differential to improve traction and standard stability control (VSA) to keep it in line should directional stability be lost while cornering. A button on the dash gives the driver the choice of turning it off.

For typical day to day commuting, the TL's strong points of refinement, power, luxury and quality are of more importance than handling, and in that sense the TL ranks as one of the top models in its class.