gavriil

In C&D's defense, they could not have based their large luxo vehicle comparo on sportiness first. The LS is part of the "creamy" category, to use their terms. So that comparo makes sense.

I bet in the A4, TL, etc comparo, they were looking for the sportiest luxo sedan and hence the outcome. But still. The 325 is in no way better than the A4 (unless if you figure the price difference and still it should be behind the A4) and certainly it aint better than the IS.

1SICKLEX

What Gav said....

Davediego

did anyone else catch that the TL WON the braking test? Thats right, 0-60 took the TL 160ft. G35 was 164, 325 was 172

Crazy Bimmer

SO like i drove the TL 6-speed today. Great car and i loved the interior and its toys. The shifter felt nice and stiff and the throws are much shorter than my A4. I liked the clutch feel as well. Brakes on the 6-speed are very nice! I was impressed.

Car is much improved over my 2002 TL-S. Steering responsive is good and feels tighter than my TLS.

But MY GOD that much power in FWD is scary. I took a wide turn going maybe 30mph and the steering wheel flew all over the place. Granted it was raining out but still.

M5lite came with me and he drove it, keep in mind this guy hasnt had a FWD car in a long time. So he goes pretty fast on this turn from a stop, all of a sudden you see him grabbing onto the wheel for dear life and i keep yelling "shift shift". He needed both hands to keep the car steady. I really wish i got it on tape.

I seriously cant wait till acura makes a AWD version. I would stick on that like turds on a bears fur.


Overall, im still happy with my A4.

DISRUPTV

i bhave no problem w/the ls430 winning and i am very happy that it did


i just felt that they were sending two different messages/morals from these articles


byt ya, even if the tl was awd it would have done a lot better i guess

gavriil

You mean 70-0 mph ?

Crazy Bimmer

I beileve it. TL brakes were up there with my 330ci. Very impressed.

Davediego

sorry yes its 70-0. just the first time ive ever seen an acura do well in braking tests

gavriil

Here is the test:

$35,000 Sports Sedans - Manual dexterity: Among near-luxury sports sedans with stick shifts, surely something is better than a BMW. Or is it? - - BY BARRY WINFIELD

1SICKLEX

To have the 325 2nd says a lot of the driving characteristics and dominance of the 3 series. If it was a 330, it would have won. All sports sedans are better b/c of the 3. A simply outstanding car.

heyitsme

I don't know, the TL sounded a little too unrefined in the sport section to take 2nd-Great engine, but torque steer, nice handling control but only on the smooth roads. The G35 sounds pretty good, I think after an interior update it will definately have taken the crown from bmw 330, especially if the new 3 has i-drive. I would also like to see the CTS in there, cause its most likely on par with the G35 is performance, but also needs an interior update.

gavriil

The 330 is too expensive for this comparo though.

phile

Acura TL named Best Sport sedan

Drivers' Choice Awards.
The second generation Acura TL powered up into the "Best Sport Sedan" category, following the same path as the original by being the best at combining sport sedan driving enjoyment with no-wants luxury interior.



1. Best Small Car - Mazda3
2. Best Family Sedan - Chevrolet Malibu
3. Best Minivan - Toyota Sienna
4. Best Convertible - Audi A4 1.8 T Cabriolet
5. Best Luxury Sedan - Mercedes-Benz E-Class 1
6. Best Sport Sedan - Acura TL
7. Best Performance Car - Subaru Impreza WRX STi
8. Best Small Sport-Utility Vehicle - Honda Element 1
9. Best Mid-Size Sport-Utility Vehicle - Volkswagen Touareg
10. Best Family Sport-Utility Vehicle - Dodge Durango
11. Best Pickup Truck - Ford F-150
12. Best Eco-Friendly - Toyota Prius
13. Best Dream Machine - Bentley Continental GT/Ford GT/Mercedes-Benz AMG

jlukja

You mean MotorWeek right?

phile

LOL...how in the world did I do that? Oh well.

gilboman

malibu as best family sedan and audi A4 1.8T cabrioret as best convertilbe just totally write off the credibiltiy of this list.

phile

I'm sure if a BMW won, the list would be more credible to you.

jcg878

So says our most credible, most open-minded member

Iceman

I agree with gilbo about the Malibu. I am not so sure about the Dodge Durango either. This looks like a "what did I drive last in each category" list.

planman

Umm...anybody remember that this is the 3rd gen. TL and not the 2nd? Are these guys trying to discredit themselves?

ClutchPerformer

What would you rather have, Mr. Man? BMW's don't make great family sedans.

TSX Hokie

On a related note, GilboWeek released its top cars for 2004:

1. Best Small Car - BMW 325Ci
2. Best Family Sedan - Acura TSX
3. Best Minivan - Mini Cooper S
4. Best Convertible - Lexus SC430
5. Best Luxury Sedan - Lexus LS430
6. Best Sport Sedan - BMW 330i
7. Best Performance Car - BMW M3
8. Best Small Sport-Utility Vehicle - BMW X3
9. Best Mid-Size Sport-Utility Vehicle - Lexus GX470
10. Best Family Sport-Utility Vehicle - Lexus RX330
11. Best Pickup Truck - Toyota Tundra
12. Best Eco-Friendly - BMW Z4 2.5i (28 MPG highway!)
13. Best Dream Machine - BMW 760Li

Also, "Man of the Year" was Chris Bangle.

gilboman

mazda 6 or accord... and an A4 is prolly last convertilbe i would want to drive from the luxury brands...

Junkster

I would have to agree with Mr. BMW here.

Really? Malibu as best family sedan? If you've ever been in the new Malibu, you would be OUTRAGED that these 'professional journalists' picked the Malibu over: Accord, Camry, Mazda6, Galant, Altima. All these cars do everything the Malibu does, but better and in a more tight and well-balanced package. I'm sorry, this list is out the window for me. I checked out the new Malibu a week ago while I was browsing. The look of the car isn't bad (IMO), but the interior is cheap, dull and unergonomic (sic?). The car is cheap, which is probably gonna get this car into garages, but probably see more on fleet duty than grocery.

The Durango and Toureg nod also makes this list a bit off. The Durango has been widely panned by most reviewers as being the dying breed of truck-based SUVs that are tryin to appeal to the family market (yea, good luck with that). The Toureg is a great SUV, no doubt, but if price is no object (if they're talking the V8 version), than why not step up to the others such as the Lexus line of RX or GX, Volvo XC90, Acura MDX, or even the X5!!! The mid size market is chalked full of great SUVs.

And, finally, if these selections that they've made are such great cars, why aren't people snatching them up? Why don't we see them on the road everywhere? It's not like they are limited edition cars or anything. Heck, I drive by two VW dealers almost every other day, and they are piled neck-high with Touregs they can't get rid of. And I've only see ONE A4 Cabrio, and Denver is suprisingly a good market for open tops. I still haven't seen a new Durango on the road, and I've seen two Malibus at Wal-Mart.

I'm sorry, lost all respect for Motorweek.

Junkster, who reminds people this is why auto mags are so unreliable.

SPUDMTN

Is it not flashy enough? I personally think that BMWs are the ultimate poseur mobiles--no matter how well they drive. There's that whole "BMW owner" stigma that turns me away.

Kudos to Motor Week for choosing the Audi. They make great looking and feeling cars.

gilboman

have you ever driven an audi convertible??? and even if you think BMW is a poseur mobile.... they still make one of the best driving cars on the market...much better than an audi a4 can ever be atleast

biker

Don't worry, next year the same basic cars will be nowhere in the same position as they are this year (even though there'll only be a few new ones to mve them out of the way). It's all very subjective. If cars were not a subjective thing, every one would be driving around in the cheapest sedan that will get you from A to B.

Junkster

The A4 Cabrio has been panned by most critics in Europe for having too much body roll for a chop top with it's price (it's 36~45k here in US). I've heard the 3.0 has pretty good power off the line, but isn't a performance machine in any sense. I have to admit it looks pretty sweet, but to choose this over the MB SLK, 911 Cabrio, BMW 3 (poser or not, it drives well, and that's pretty much the bottom line for me), Jag XK, and Caddie XLR. Not to mention the 350Z convertable, which drives nearly the same as the hardlid.

I don't know if I'm willing to pay 36 for a FWD 1.8L Audi when I have other options at a lower price. If you go for the full blown 3.0 Quattro, you're looking at 45, a catagory where you can even get a SLK or Boxster, which are more performance-oriented. IMO, the Audi Cabrio and the Saab 9-3 convertable are both too soft and overpriced for most people in the market.

Junkster, whose fave drivin convertable was the 99 SL.

Stokeless_TSX

car and driver rather TL 3rd

mckeown1

Acura TL A-Spec <=Click To See

The Acura TL A-SPEC Concept performance luxury sedan was built to explore the next level of performance accessory possibilities for Acura's best-selling TL sedan, introduced last October.

The Concept TL's track has been widened by nearly two inches, and combines with 21-inch alloy wheels, high performance tires and wide fender flares, giving a very muscular appearance. The front fascia has been redesigned with a new bumper, more angular headlight treatments, an enhanced signature Acura grille and larger lower air intakes. In the rear, the trunk lid has been reshaped with an integrated spoiler. A new bumper features larger, high flow exhaust finishers and new taillight treatments. A panoramic glass roof flows back along the length of the cockpit

Inside, the TL A-SPEC features a racing-inspired cockpit clothed in premium Matador Red leather. The upper headliner is finished in ultra suede trim while the door panels and center console feature carbon/kevlar and aluminum accents. Custom designed front seats with heating and cooling vents provide optimum support during aggressive driving, while a carbon/kevlar racing steering wheel and lightweight aluminum sport pedals deliver a highly tactile feel. The 3.2-liter V-6 engine utilizes a high flow intake and exhaust as well as internal engine modifications to raise the output to
over 300 horsepower.

SpeedyV6

BEHIND THE WHEEL
2004 Acura TL: Those German Lessons Are Paying Off
By MICHELLE KREBS

Published: March 21, 2004


DETROIT

WHEN I first encountered the redesigned 2004 Acura TL, it was like being reintroduced to an old friend. No, not to the 2000-model Acura 3.2 TL that resides in my garage - a car that suddenly looked and felt dowdy by comparison - but to a red-blooded German sport sedan like the Audi A4.

This third generation of the midsize Acura, introduced last fall, resembles a modern German automobile more than it looks like my own beloved but aging TL, or like the original TL of 1995.

Acura officials attribute the exterior design to the Bauhaus aesthetic of form following function. To me, it looks like a knockoff of Audi, at least in its squared-off back end and short deck lid, though Acura retained the TL's slim, slanted headlamps and chevron-shape grille. The crisp styling gives the sedan an athletic appearance intended to appeal more to men; in contrast, Acura officials say, women favored the sweeping, softer lines of the previous model.

The new car is two inches wider but four inches shorter. The trunk is about two cubic feet smaller.

The interior of the five-passenger TL has been designed and put together with exquisite attention to detail. The gaps between panels are sliver-thin. Materials look and feel rich, from the covering of the dash to the seat upholstery. The leather on the seats and doors is much softer than that in my old TL, and it is pulled taut, in contrast to the loose-fitting upholstery in my own car. This, too, says Audi to me.

At night, the light-emitting displays on the instrument panel cast a blue glow, ŕ la Volkswagen.

Acura officials seem pleased by comparisons with Audi and its sibling brand, VW, which have some of the best interiors in the business. Acura engineers and designers, in fact, used German cars as their benchmarks, from the exterior design to interior craftsmanship to features like cup holders. However, Acura benchmarked not the similarly priced Audi A4, but the more expensive A6, and not the BMW 3 Series, but the larger 5 Series. They also took a careful look at a head-on competitor, the Lexus ES.

The goal for the TL is bigger than just one car. Having lost its focus in recent years, Acura is seeking to reclaim its original niche, selling cars that emphasize performance and technology as much as luxury.

Established by Honda in 1986, Acura was the first luxury subbrand of a Japanese automaker, and it was an instant success. With a separate dealer network, Acura sold upscale versions of Hondas, starting with the compact Integra and the midsize Legend. Other models, including the TL, the exotic NSX sports car and the MDX sport utility, came later.

So, too, did luxury brands from Toyota (Lexus) and Nissan (Infiniti). Despite its value for the dollar and outstanding quality, Acura fell behind Lexus in its model selection, customer service and sales volume. Nor has Acura established the sort of reputation among enthusiasts that BMW and Audi enjoy. And now Acura faces increased competition, especially in the TL's midsize entry-luxury segment, from Infiniti with its G35 and Cadillac with its CTS.

Acura edged into its new direction with the Type S version of its previous 3.2 TL, which had a more powerful engine and a sporty suspension. For the 2004 TL, Acura uses the Type S as its basis, but drops that model designation. It also omits the "3.2" from the name even though the engine is still a 3.2-liter V-6.

The updated engine is rated at 270 horsepower, a gain of 45 from the previous base model and 10 from the Type S. Torque has also increased, to 238 pounds-feet.

The gain in power puts the TL well ahead of its competitors. In testing by Motor Trend magazine, the Acura accelerated to 60 miles an hour in 6.1 seconds, an advantage of a second or two. Yet the new TL delivers reasonable fuel economy - up to 30 m.p.g. on the highway - and is classified as an ultra-low-emissions vehicle.

Two transmissions are offered for the same price, a five-speed automatic that can be shifted manually or a short-ratio six-speed manual that lets you run effortlessly and accurately through the gears.

The TL has one shortcoming, however, a consequence of sending so much power through the front, driving wheels. It suffers from severe torque steer, with the front wheels pulling to one side or the other under hard acceleration. Engineers tried to reduce the problem on stick-shift cars by installing a limited-slip differential to modulate the power between the left and right wheels.

Living in the Snow Belt, I prefer front drive to rear drive in the winter. But two tests of the TL convinced me that Honda has reached the limit of how much power can be smoothly channeled to the front wheels.

I also found the steering twitchy. Keeping the car on course on curves required constant tiny adjustments.

The new TL uses suspension underpinnings from the previous Type S. The ride is firm but comfortable and extremely quiet. The brakes come from a famous supplier, Brembo, and stop the car with confidence.

The TL also tries to re-establish Acura as a leader in technology, with what the company says is the first North American application of a standard DVD-A 5.1 audio system. The 225-watt, eight-speaker surround-sound system (with a six-CD changer and XM satellite radio) was developed with Elliot Scheiner, the Grammy-winning music producer who has worked with artists from Sting to Pavarotti. Acura even used acoustic glass for the windshield.

The TL also comes with a hands-free wireless phone connection using Bluetooth technology. Voice recognition lets you operate the audio, navigation and cruise control with spoken commands. A power moonroof, larger than before, is standard. High-tech L.E.D. lighting is used extensively inside and out.

For increased safety, Acura added side-curtain air bags to protect front and rear passengers. Other safety features include antilock brakes, a panic braking aid, traction and stability controls.

The TL even has pedestrian impact protection; the hood and front fenders are designed to deform if the car strikes someone, cushioning the blow.

With the new TL, Acura continues the keep-it-simple pricing formula that attracted me to an Acura four years ago. The new model starts at $33,195; the chief options are a $2,000 navigation system and $200 high-performance tires. In contrast, options can bump up the price of a Lexus ES 330 by $6,000.

A competitive, easy-to-understand price is just one of the TL's many attributes, which include the handsome, sporty styling; the inviting cabin; the long list of features; the power combined with efficiency.

But as rewarding as this Acura is, its performance comes up a bit short of the best rear-drive German sedans. Perhaps the time has come for Acura to switch to a rear-drive or all-wheel-drive configuration. The new and improved TL is now about as good as a front-drive car can be.

charliemike

116ft from 60-0 for the A4?

Did it have a parachute deployed?

:P

Crazy Bimmer

since when is the audi a4 3.0 only $31,800?

1SICKLEX

The TL is not 189in long right?

TypeSAddict

The TL is 186" long, the 189" figure was an initial mistake that was put out by Honda News Bureau when the car first debuted......Edmunds must not have caught up.

ctsport

gavriil

Acura TL A-Spec - - Gilding the wrong parts of the lily? - - - BY TONY SWAN - - PHOTOGRAPHY BY DAVID DEWHURST - - May 2004 - -Source: Car and Driver


....


The subjective scorecard is a little more decisive. Without getting into a lot of arcane discussion of damping adjustments, the A-Spec setup achieves a noticeable reduction in up-and-down chassis motions over roads with built-in whoop-de-dos, which eliminates the occasional lunging that afflicted the standard TL's responses in our recent test. Roll stiffness has been enhanced, too—cornering attitudes are flatter, and the Acura chassis guys deserve high marks for tightening everything up without a corresponding erosion of ride quality.

What the A-Spec package does not address, however, is the biggest flaw of a TL with a manual transmission, and that's torque steer. Tramp on the throttle in one of the lower gears, and there's still that heavy tug at the steering wheel, particularly on pavement with lots of variations.

So this package merits a mixed review. The components are high quality, and they do enhance performance, although it takes a well-tuned posterior to appreciate the A-Spec. But the problem of feeding high horsepower through a front-drive system is unaffected. Is this worth $5200? Plus about $500 for installation? We take the Fifth. Your money, your call.

Vehicle type: front-engine, front-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 4-door sedan
Price as tested: $40,895 (base price: $38,895)
Engine type: SOHC 24-valve V-6, aluminum block and heads, port fuel injection
Displacement: 196 cu in, 3210cc
Power (SAE net): 270 bhp @ 6200 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 238 lb-ft @ 5000 rpm

Transmission: 6-speed manual
Wheelbase: 107.9 in
Length/width/height: .186.2/72.2/56.7 in
Curb weight: 3543 lb

Zero to 60 mph: 5.6 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 14.5 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 28.4 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 6.2 sec
Standing 1/4-mile: 14.3 sec @ 99 mph
Top speed (drag limited): 152 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 174 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.90 g
EPA fuel economy, city driving: 19 mpg
C/D-observed fuel economy: 20 mpg

pimpscls

damn that is fast as hell, the must be shifting nice, also looking at the skidpad, thats solid

Whats the cl type s?

farberstyle

its a FWD coupe that acura made once upon a time. most members here drive one.

ItalianStallion

smartass :P