vishnus11

twin turbos isn't the solution to parasitic driveloss.

neither is a new V6.

stop blithering random nonsense and do some research. The GT-R uses ultra-low friction bearings in the wheel hubs to reduce drivetrain losses. A simple upgrade that could negate one of the disadvantages of SH-AWD.

Manual Transmission

Not the news ones.... The Genesis cars are to be built in Ulsan, South Korea. It's nothing like those crappy American car factories and with lame union labor.. = shitty job = f#@k'ed up build quality.


The Americans "HAVE" the ability to make good quality products, but they are F#@KIN' LAZY and SLOPPY. THAT's what's so messed up...... Their attitudes are just messed up... man...



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FiveLiterCheater

Holy crap, can one of the mods ban this guy already.

Manual Transmission

It's natural, because the Lexus has far better build quality and reliability than the Mercedes or BMW. I would be ashamed driving a Mercedes as it's built to break.


I bashed the AUTO tranny in *TL* models, and some of Honda cars. Think more carefully before you make judgements. I didn't say all AT cars are crap. The Lexus IS350 is okay because it has very responsive close-gear ratios. The first 4 gears are extremely tight, enough to take out 335i and E46 M3 and 550i. It's good upto 125 mph. Anything faster it's pointless.... like what.... who reaches the top speed quicker? LOL*z*...........




I told you already. Have you forgotten?? I said the Genesis Coupe ISN'T available now. It's not available... they are NOT getting my money.... and yes, Hyundai makes best cars now days.


My name is fine.... "Manual Transmission" = awesome name. Let's keep it at that.





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Manual Transmission

I'm just speaking the truth. It is true. The American car makers do sh#tty job building cars. It's so f#@kin slob it's not even funny. They can't even get the Acura TL dashboard to mount correctly. It's uneven and there are HUGE gaps all over the freakin interior (between dash and doors, doors on the exterior, and many other parts). I got so disgusted.



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FiveLiterCheater

Maybe yours was a lemon, my dash is perfectly aligned as are most i've seen.

@ taking out a 550, M3, or 335. All of those cars would destroy your little Toyota, as they're actually built for performance. Not to mention i'd actually feel safe driving those cars at high speeds...the Lexus...not so much, too mushy for my tastes.

Anyways, back on topic. You don't have to ruin yet another thread with your korean and japanese pride.

mrdeeno

Wow, is English a 2nd language to you? I hope so, because you completely missed the point of everything i posted. My POINT is that Acura/honda is not one to quickly embrace new technologies.

Why you bring up specifics in the GT-R is beyond me, because it has nothing to do with the point. But further, SH-AWD = heavy w/ parasitic losses. One of MANY ways to negate those losses is to increase available power, ie my example of twin turbo. I am using it as an example of "newer technology" that Acura could use to negate the loss in power.

Further, I brought up the V6 as another example of how Acura is NOT quick into bringing "new technologies" to their products. So if they aren't even willing to bring a new engine to their models, why wouild they bother with more exotic "newer technologies" into a near-luxury car?

Please, learn to comprehend before you call my posts "random nonsense".

FiveLiterCheater

The J series is pretty solid, the only thing it lacks is DOHC, which isn't really necessary IMO. Nissan/Infiniti have been using the VQ for ages, and its served them well. Nobody really knows how the J37 will perform in a sports sedan just yet, but we can only hope for the best. Although I agree about the parasitic loss from an AWD system, most buyers have no idea what the hell that is. The sticker says 310hp, and that automatically makes it faster than the 300 HP competitor in the consumers eye

mrdeeno

Taking the RL as an example, a 300hp (or 290 or whatever) RL is no quicker than a RWD M35 w/ only 280hp. But a solution would be to slap on even more power, and that would compensate for the weight and parasitic losses (~315hp or so w/ AWD to equal performance of 300hp w/ RWD). I don't think the TL's estimated 310hp will allow it to keep up with a rwd IS350 or G35 (and definitely not the '09 G37) given the parasitic losses and weight gain.

(But to those who fail at comprehension, like vishnus11, giving a car more power, whether a bigger engine, twin turbos, etc. to compensate for parasitic losses would be "random nonsense" )

Manual Transmission

VTECRacer, there is no flaw in Lexus IS250/350, GS, ES, and SC models. They are all made in a beautiful country called Japan... They are built with spirits. The car makers there are highly disciplined, just like Ulsan factory in Korea, have very high standards and their QC is exceptional. The only Lexus models that are built in U.S.A/ Canada are RX series (IIRC) and ES models. The ES350 is built like crap. So I'm not saying all Lexus and all Hyundai cars are all good. Only the ones made in Japan and Korea (especially the brand new models like Genesis and maybe Azera) are made with spirits.... lolz...

In my IS350 interior there is absolutely no flaw.. everything is aligned perfectly and the gaps are very tight and even. it's dead even and so well detailed. the dashtop feels so dang good. It feels almost as good and soft as leather when it is not. It's nothing like Acura TL's dashtop. You can feel cheap plastic and rubber. It feels like some heavy duty cheap material and I don't feel anything high quality about it. I was so let down with the Acura. got me depressed and I took some pills.


lolz...



Oh man. But you know what... aside from ugly looking exterior of the new RL, the build quality should be very good, close to Lexus GS series. That's how it has been with the past gen RL's.... don't know if they keep this up on the new RL model or wut..... but like I sed, the '09 TL will be built in America. i'm pretty dang sure. Any objections?


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vishnus11

Do pass some of whatever your smoking...

The only time a IS350 will outaccelerate a BMW 335i, M3, or 550i would be if it was dropped off a cliff.

And American labor is only partly responsible for build quality. Suppliers and more importantly engineering decisions, such as how many clips to use for a panel etc. are responsible for build quality. Its easy to blame the guys who put it all together, but at the end of the day their only following instructions. Yes, I still feel that American factory workers don't have the same 'passion' and 'attention to detail' as their American counterparts, but that isn't the source of ALL build quality problems.

Manual Transmission

The IS350 is rocket fast. The 4th gen TL or Type-S will not even come close to it. Hell, I'm very confident that they will be slower than the current 3rd gen TL Type-S 6MT...

it goes like this, from 0-125 mph:

IS350 > C5 Corvette Coupe > C5 Corvette Convertible > BMW E46 M3 Coupe > BMW 335i > BMW E46 M3 Convertible > '08 Nissan 350z 6MT > '08 Infiniti G35S Sedan 6MT > Mazda Speed6 > '08 Honda S2000 > '08 Acura TL Type-S 6MT > etc etc etc etc. .... ....

The 3rd gen TL 5AT runs around 7 sec in 0-60 and 15.5~ 16 sec in the quarter mile.


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Costco

oh and fixed your post. @ took some pills

My sister's ES350 is hardly built like crap. Yes, it is built better than the TL, but neither are even close to being crap.

Manual Transmission

Oh yea and I forgot to say, the engineering and design is poor, which causes the vehicle to have so many flaws, like the TL/TL-S and 6MT cars. Acura is designed and engineered by Americans. Location = California.

As for the IS350, this is not even argument. By average it is clearly faster than all three ( E46 M3, 550i, and 335i) from 0- quarter mile AND upto 125 mph. The M5 will slightly edge out the IS350 though.


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Manual Transmission

i was exaggerating a little bit about the ES350. it's not as good as what Lexus gentlemen wanted to be, but it's certainly better (not by too much) than the 3rd gen TL cars.


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vishnus11

I had no idea someone could shove their heads so far up their ass and be THAT oblivious to the world...

3G TL 5AT - 0 to 60 in ~6.1 seconds
3G TL 6spd - 0 to 60 in ~ 5.8 seconds
3G TL-S 6spd - 0 to 60 in ~ 5.5 seconds

IS350 6AT - 0 to 60 ~ 5.0 seconds
335i - 0 to 60 ~ 4.9 seconds
E46 M3 - 0 to 60 ~ 4.8 seconds

^ Refer to R&T or MT for these numbers

When you have REAL numbers with proof from reputable sources, then get back to me. Till then, go drive your IS350 off a cliff if you want to outaccelerate an M3 - then again you mightn't need to - with its soggy handling, I'm sure it'll understeer its way off one.

Costco

Faster than a C5 Vette?

Manual Transmission

3G TL 5AT are slow cars. The only time you'll see 6.1 sec from 0-60 is in the steep downhill, at maybe 45 degree angle. You pray and give it the best shot it's got and you mighly luckily get 6.3 sec. That's with VSA off of course. Otherwise you will be seeing 7~ 7.2 sec in 0-60. The 3G Type-S 6MT can do 5.5 sec though. The IS350 actually gets 4.9 sec with normal launching. With VSC off and brake-torque it actually gets down to 4.4~ 4.5 sec and 0-100 in 11 sec, and quarter mile at 13.2x sec. All of your information you posted is completely wrong. The magazine numbers you posted up doesn't mean anything.


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Edward'TLS

Acura has been stuck in a very embarrassing situation - all because the lack of RWD chassis. With current suspension tuning technology, ~290hp is the barrier to a good handling FWD car.

So FWD Acura's can have no more than 290hp. However, all other Acura competitors have been releasing 300+ hp cars. In order to match hp with these rivals, Acura has to release 300+ hp cars too. With FWD out of the question, there are only two other choices : RWD or AWD. Since Acura has yet to come up with a RWD chassis, it is FORCED to use AWD for anything moving which have more than 290 hp.

AWD is expensive, complex, heavy, fuel wasting, and power robbing. Even though most buyers won't know what parasitic loss is, even a retarded person can tell that an AWD car has slower throttle response and initial spin-up.

When Honda/Acura is so dedicated for it's gas-sipping engines and good fuel economy, AWD is something that Honda/Acura is not to be proud of.

Hopefully, with the gradual arrival of RWD chassis, Acura can fight back with 300+ hp RWD cars that are fast, high-tech, and most importantly fuel efficient.

TypeSAddict

What are you smoking dude?! IS350's running 4.4 to 60???

C&D: 5.1s
MT: 5.5s
R&T: 6.0s
Edmunds: 6.1s

Where are you pulling 4.9 with a normal launch? I think I have an idea. lexus themselves estimate a 5.6, ;and that is dead on the average of all the mags.

Fanboy

oonowindoo

STOP!

IS350- fast in straight and thank god it is RWD but ride like a boat so
TL-S - slower but cheaper and

Stop arguing ! If you are driving an automatic TL, you know you will get the IS350 in a heart beat if they were the same price. too bad IS is 10k more than TL.

Still IS350 :ghey:

TypeSAddict

heck i have a mini cooper i'm not beating anyone in a race....i just find manual transmission to be excessively annoying.

Costco

The IS is RWD, but Lexus has their joykilling stability control system that you can't completely turn off without doing some ridiculous cheat code with the brake pedal, so its kinda moot. Not only does the stability control on Lexus hamper the fun, it also negatively affects handling at the limit.

Fast in a straight line is about it. The IS350 is pretty much like a 60's muscle car with a nice interior.

Manual Transmission

The IS350 doesn't give boat-like ride if you opt for a sport package. The factory tuned suspension and 18" wheels do a lot of help. It seems to absorb bumps better and yet tight and firm. And surprisingly, the it doesn't have body roll like I thought it would be. It turns lightly and agile than the TL 6MT. I have been very impressed with my IS350. Today I received a present from Tom Wood Lexus. They gave me a box of delicious chocolate! Ohhhhh how sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!~. I love it.


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Manual Transmission

Costcoman, the '07~'08 IS350 no longer require pedal-dance to disable Traction Control. It now simply requires a press of a button for 4 sec. Lexus tries to make Lexus drivers happy.


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Texas

from v-tec........ http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=769060

fsttyms1

@ Manual T

oonowindoo

ok there is not even ONE vehicle in the whole entire toyota/lexus line up right now that doesnt feel like a boat.
the only way you like the way your IS350 feels now is if your last car was a Crown Victoria.

U wanna know what a REAL sports sedan rides like? go drive a E90 335 or a G35S Sedan. They will make ur IS350 feel like a convention van.

IS350 is fast in straight with toyota built realiability and that's about it.

oh also, Chicks dig it. fucking brand whores.

Manual Transmission

^ Sorry about that. I'll take a seat now.

FiveLiterCheater

What are you talking about KEE KEE KEE LOLZ its made in JAPANS!!! home of the spirits!! LOLZ



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Ikko

I think MT is off his rocker, lol! Or at least he's getting there.

SirWaWa

where's a nice blue when u want one
Kinetic/Reaction Blue Pearl
what a short/rare production run that was...
best TL-S color

dom

Who is this clown?

Sounds like 1sicklex's retarded cousin.

Trackruner228

iTrader: (1)

C&D did 5.8 in the TL http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...omparison_test

Seriously though the IS 350 is faster than a corvette? Really? Faster than a 335i? Seriously?

Also if you think "there is no flaw in the IS" your mistaken.
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=362040
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=361600
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=361930
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=361942

I got all those threads off the first page of clublexus. I didnt search they are all on the first page of the 2G IS homepage at clublexus.

I personally like the IS 350 I think they are great and would love to have one. However, that arent THAT perfect and arent faster than a corvette.

vishnus11

random nonsense it is...before you critisize reading comprehension, learn some basics...

- Adding twin-turbos and a gazzilion hp doesn't STOP or REDUCE high drivetrain loss. REDUCING drivetrain loss via ultra low friction bearings REDUCES drivetrain losses. I used the GT-R as an example. Thats all I said

As for your direct injection, twin turbo, non J series world - my are that it doesn't matter. Does the current V6 perform as well, or outperform competiting V6s? In terms of power, NVH, efficiency, and emissions?

It does. Audi's V6 in the A4 makes 265hp. Mercedes 6 in the C350 makes 300hp. The G35 sedan makes 306. the IS350 makes 306. The new TL will make 310hp? In terms of power, I don't see a problem. Only the 335i makes more (in reality), but since its advertised at 300hp the average consumer will think that the TL compares favorably.

All the above is simply a comparison of power. The average luxury car buyer is concerned just as much with NVH. The J series compares well in this regard, especially against the VQ35 in the G, which sends all kinds of vibrations up through the car in manual guise. In fact, Infiniti themselves stated this month in EVO that they would be revising the car for the European market with changes to the sound deadening and firewall I recall, to eliminate this vibration.

And probably the most important thing everyone will be looking at is efficiency. The current TL does remarkably well and most every owner here has reported roughly 29-30mpg hwy, and 21-22mpg city. In this respect, I can't speak for the new G35, but the 1G got around 23mpg hwy and 17-18 city. The IS350 delivers promising mileage too. I'm sure the new TL will continue the trend.

Direct injection sounds like a great idea. As does turbocharging. And a DOHC design. But if it the current engine is class competitive and indeed class leading in some points of view, why change it?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Manual Transmission, TL 5AT, 2nd gen and 3rd gen, would do 0-60 in 6.2 - 6.5s, according to most mags, such as C&D and MT, and 1/4 mile in 14.7-15. Obviously the 6MT is much faster, but the 5AT is faster than 7-7.2/15.5, unless the driver is a noob, or the car is not running properly, or the condition is not good.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Very well said. I think both you and MrDeeno has valid points, and neither of you are wrong. For fuel efficiency, it's said that the G35/G37 will get a 7-speed gearbox, that would most likely help improve the current mediocre fuel economy. As for the RWD chassis, BMW and MB obviously don't have any problem with regard to cost, as from the very beginning, they are about building RWD luxury cars. For Lexus and Infiniti, their parent companies, Toyota, and Nissan, already have RWD platforms, such as Toyota Crown and Nissan Skyline, Fuga, and Cima. They don't have to engineer a separate RWD platform for their RWD luxury cars. But for Honda, they only have the NSX and S2000. The first one is mid-engined, while the second has a x-bone frame specially designed for a convertible. Will making a dedicated RWD platform more profitable for the past years? The TL for instance has been Acura's best selling sedan, and I believe only the 3 series has sold better, until the arrival of the G35. In other words, back then, a RWD platform might or might not help increase sales, but one thing for sure, it would cost more than using a FWD Accord platform. Competition started to heat up when 335i, IS350, 2nd gen G35, and CTS came out in 2006-2008. For the time being, before they have developed a RWD platform, they have to rely on SH-AWD. For a small company like Honda, they can't take too many risks by suddenly using a RWD platform without much development. The TL is the core model of Acura, they can't afford to screw up, to Honda, it might be safer to use the same old formula that has worked for a long time - keep using the Accord's platform, but also add SH-AWD as the system has already been developed and been proven to be effective in enhancing handling. Then after this generation, the RWD platform would hopefully be ready. Sorry if this post is hard to read, but I'm sort of in a hurry..

Manual Transmission

Hey don't copy my writing style. It's minez! It's minezzz!!!




That can be done with poor launching on the 5AT TL. What I meant was with the bad runs. The best runs would get better results. I don't have any objection to your comments. Thanks for the post.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea, for sure, myself would probably get those mediocre times since I have no experience.

Manual Transmission

^ Don't say that. I'm pretty sure you'll get good times out of your Type-S 5AT. I have a feeling those 2nd gen could run a little better than the 3rd gen 5AT. You are a cool guy. Give me hug.