Edward'TLS

Are you also aware of the fact that most people know very well what a BMW, a MB, and even an Audi or a Lexus is; and also that there are many people who haven't even heard of the name "Acura" at all ?

The Acura name is in such a bad shape among the luxury brands that it must need serious makeover. The best solution is to crank up the WOW factor by releasing bargain, big-hp, high performance V8/V10/V12--RWD/AWD cars. This will sure put Acura cars on the front page of every car review columns and auto magazines around the world. This kind of publicity is what Acura needs.

FiveLiterCheater

Thats your opinion. 6 times out of 10 when I tell people I work at Infiniti they just give me a blank stare, awaiting an explanation of who/what infiniti is. I've never had to explain what an Acura is. When clients do come in, they're almost ALWAYS cross-shopping between Acura,Lexus,BMW, Mercedes, and Infiniti.

mrdeeno

It's not only an opinion, it's an actual fact. The Acura name as a premium brand is in very bad shape among the general public. Survey results show this, and the failure of the RL prove this.

Two possibities...

1) The people you talk to just came out of their caves if they don't know what "Infiniti" is. I have not met ONE SINGLE competent person in the U.S. yet that does not know the car brand "Infiniti", and many of these people are FAR from being car people. My non-english speaking grandma who never held a U.S. license even knows what an "Infiniti" is.

2) They give you a blank stare because they are trying to figure out if you work for a car dealership, a speaker manufacturer, or a broadcast network.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I'm not too sure, because what I said was based on these:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...omparison_test
www.forbes.com/2002/05/06/0506test.html

From my understanding, if it's a 2003 car introduced in 2002, it would still be called a 2003 model.

Edward'TLS

This is not my opinion, young man. I'm only stating the startling results from the Consumer Reports car brand perceptions survey which was done nationally. The Acura brand ranks dead last in the survey. You shouldn't have missed that thread which was posted back in January, see below link :

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...t=acura+bottom

I guess selling autos for only two years is too short to capture what really out there in the national auto market. There is much to learn, even for myself.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I believe this part is the opinion:

"Are you also aware of the fact that most people know very well what a BMW, a MB, and even an Audi or a Lexus is; and also that there are many people who haven't even heard of the name "Acura" at all ?"

JJaber then said from HIS OWN EXPERIENCE, less people heard of the Infiniti brand.

I think you haven't met my parents and sister..they don't know what Infiniti is, but then we are in Canada.

FiveLiterCheater

It also has Audi as second to last....I think everyone and their mom has heard of an Audi

SRK85

Why are still complaining. Its not in Honda's philosophy to put big engines in their car. Don't expect a V8 rwd car. Acura appeals to the average driver not performance drivers. Acura sells plenty of cars they way they are now. If you want better performance they buy from another brand.

Mokos23

so funny that the last page's discussion has nothing to do with the 2009 TL.

mrdeeno

You can't flip-flop when you do math like that...

if you are using model year, then you consider model year vs. next gen model year First model year available was 2003, last year available 2006...MY2003 to MY2006 = 4 years.

If you are talking when the car started selling, then you have to consider when the car started selling vs. last year you can buy it...selling start in 2002, last full year available in 2005 = 4 years.

You can't start with selling date then flip to MY...if you did that, then the TL would be 6 years old (started selling in 2003, last MY in 2008 = 6 years).

c'mon, you're an engineering student! You can't take today's temp of 80°F and subtract yesterday's temp of 20°C and say it's a 60° difference, can you?

phile

That's generally the case when mrdeeno's involved.

Costco

fixed

mrdeeno

I thought Honda appeals to your average driver, not performance drivers and that Acura was to appeal to "premium" buyers...those wanting either more performance or more luxury, or both.

Guess I was wrong...I guess the slogans like:

- Acura. Precision Crafted Performance
- Acura: Advance

should be changed to

- Acura. Precision Crafted [Average] Performance
- Acura: Average

mrdeeno

hey, quit passing the blame...this thread was going off-topic talking about door handles and keyfobs and shiz before I got involved. I don't instigate it...I just facilitate it.

Edward'TLS

It doesn't matter what ranking Audi receives. You can start a topic in the Audi forum if you are so inclined to. The most important message is that Acura is the least recognized car brand nationwide, and this is no personnel opinion.

So "Most consumer don't know absolute shit about what kind of engine their car has under the hood or which damn wheels are powered ... " as well as what the heck an Acura is.

SRK85

HEHE I never hard crafted performance. Acura is more about putting technology in their cars than performance. I always thought thought thats what Acura was about.

phile

But it was still about the 09 TL!

mrdeeno

I don't know when they used it...back in the early 90's I think.

they only started embracing technology in the last 5 years or so...now they're cranking out ipod docks w/ 4 wheels.

SRK85

Pretty much look at the new TSX. All it is a sedan with loaded technology and average performance. All Acura is now is Hondas with more technology and a different grille.

Edward'TLS

The NSX, Integra Type-R, and the 2nd gen TL/CL Type-S were the only truely "precision crafted performance" cars I can think of from Acura. Apart from the lightweight NSX, their hp outputs were at the top of their respective vehicle class then. But it has been such a long time since, and the word "performance" has now completely disappeared from the Acura brand.

phile

I know, I remember when 200hp was a big deal. Now it just barely gets you into the club.

007TL-S

where's the 2009 TL talk!...WEAK thread ....Clowns!

PG2G

Of course it does, it provides a direct counter example to your argument. You claim people know who Audi is but don't know Acura because of their place on the survey. That pretty much says that the survey is useless and can't be used to support your argument...

mrdeeno

people know the Acura name. They just don't associated it with things that Honda/Acura thinks it should be associated with.

Kinda ironic if you ask me...back when Acuras had real names (Legend, Integra), their cars were raved about for luxury and/or performance. Then Acura decided that it wanted more focus on the "Acura" name instead, so did away with the model names and gave them alphanumerics and lost sight of the products, which is when they put out mediocre products like the 1G RL, TL, CL. So much for trying to get people to focus on "Acura".

Instead of focusing on playing the name game (like GM did with badge-whoring out the same SUV or car to 2-3 different brands...hey, ANOTHER GM similarity!) to sell cars, they should've focused on the cars themselves.

This mistake is way past them, but imagine what kind of cars they would have now if they focused on "Precision Crafted Performance" back in the mid-90's. I'm sure the Cartalk forum wouldn't be as active considering we wouldn't have as many complaints or beefs with Acura, but that's a small price to pay if their image was way better than it currently is.

mrdeeno

Dude, there's 83 pages to this thread...there's only so much "talk" about the '09 TL possible considering how we only have a small amount of info on it. there has to be SOME fluff in here to act as filler material...think of the off-topic posts as the "mulch" to the grass seeds of your Patchmaster.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I think you misunderstood what I said, or may be the way I said was confusing. What I meant was that there was a 2002 G35, 2002 being the model year, and in this case, for this car, it's also the year when it's being introduced in the market. Usually cars get introduced in the year before, ie, 2004 TL was introduced in 2003.

Perhaps Car and Driver made a mistake in their article?
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...omparison_test

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I think the RSX-S was also a very decent car in its class. Even though it didn't have the highest output, but its handling, quality, reliability, driving involvement were enough to make up for the lack of output. I think that's also why its aftermarket is so big.

Also the 3rd gen TL had the highest hp in its class, until the introduction of IS350, 335i, 2nd gen G35, and the CTS.

biker

There was no MY02 G35 in the US - it was introed early in 02 (as an 03) and even had a 03.5 version - change in the trunk.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

ah ic, looks like good old C&D made a mistake!

mrdeeno

That's what I said back in post #3274...

Did I stutter when I said that or something?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

biker was agreeing with you, or confirming that there was no MY 2002 G35. Perhaps send a letter to Car and Driver telling them their info is wrong.

mrdeeno

my point wasn't to counter his, my point was that I said the same thing some posts ago, but it took this long to convince you your source was wrong.

Infamous425

actually i know quite a few people who dont know what Audi is.

mrdeeno

do they think it's a type of this...

Edward'TLS

Audi didn't come last. Acura did. So more people know about the Audi brand than the Acura brand, and the Acura brand is still the least recognized brand nationwide.

If you insist not to trust no survey results, then open your eyes. You should have, just recently, seen the Audi R8 hitting the front page of most auto magazines and auto news columns. This is publicity. This is good marketing to promote a brand image, and to expand a brand recognition. Acura did it once with the NSX some 18 years ago. Memory does fade with time.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I think you missed his point. He said Audi barely did better than Acura because according to him (which is based on the survey), Audi is just one rank above Acura. So yea, let's say more people know about the Audi brand than Acura brand, but according to that survey, not by much.

dom

I don't think the survey was about brand recognition (Who knows what Acura or Audi is) it was brand perception (Good or bad) Not the same thing.

The criteria was Safety, Quality, Value, Performance, Environmentally Friendly, Design/Style and Technology/Innovation.

Not who can name that car.

biker

+1

Mokos23

Geez, I'm glad I removed my Acura brand license frame on my TSX and just put a TSX license frame instead

I want to see that survey again and see where Infiniti and Lexus rank in brand perception.

Black Tire

I found a pic: