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I was hoping TL-S will be at 400hp at least on paper... It will put the new TLS into the same conversation. With 355hp... .. meh i expected more..
like how the CL-S had 260hp and E36 M3 only had 240.... let alone 330i... at the time.
A stock M340i-Xdrive is currently running low to mid 12s. in 1/4. I seriously doubt TLS with 355hp will be anywhere close to it.
With a stage 1 tune and a dp.. it is a mid 11 car.
Oh for sure, the BMW will be way faster. My point was for an at least $12k savings, it might lure a ton of customers even though it takes a performance hit. 350hp is square in the nose of the S4.
Optional on BMW that are likely standard or free on TLX
- Color that isn't white ($550+)
- Leather seats ($1500)
- Heated seats ($500 unless bought as part of a package which is $1400)
- Better sound system ($875)
- Adaptive suspension ($700)
- Driving assistance package like Honda Sensing ($2400)
Add in a starting price that's ~$12k higher to begin with and it starts to make a lot of sense.
Dude forgot about the weird BMW "sensatec" it's not even real leather it looks like....lol
To be fair, I bet the TLX-S will come with a shit ton of standard features at that $45k mark. Most of those features will be optional on comparable M340, C43, and S4 models which will widen that gap even larger. I'd give up the immediate ability to tune for more power for a far lower cost of entry and (potentially) lower service costs.
Originally Posted by nist7
I think pricing will be a place where Honda can try to compete with the German boys.
Looking at BMW's website, the M340i starts at $54,700. Anything other than the basic white is a bit extra, along with the wheels and interior color/leather/etc.
Looking at options/packages:
$1400 - Premium (HUD, heated steering and front seats)
$2600 - Executive (HUD, heated steering wheel and front seats, gesture control, "adaptive LED with laserlight")
$700 - Driving assistance package (BSD, LDW, parking distance control)
$1,700 - Driving assistance professional package (above + "traffic jam assistant" and "active assistant driving pro")
$700 - Parking assistance package ( sensors, self parallel park, 3D view, rear view camera*)
$500 - Wireless charging and wifi hotspot
$300 - Remote engine start
$250 - Power tailgate
Looking at all that...except for the higher level semi-autopolit stuff and the gimmicky 3D camera...for a car that is in the upper-mid tier 3-series, it doesn't come with what I would say should be standard for a luxury sedan.
Honda could include heated steering wheel/front seats, HUD, BSD/LDW/Parking sensors and wireless charging as standard and if priced below $50,000 you have some competition there....
This is the feature walk that was delivered to dealers for the non-Type S TLX:
If the base model does truly start at $35k, the Advance will add $7500-9500. That would mean a fully loaded TLX 2.0T Advance will be $42,500-44,500. There's no way in hell the base TLX-S will come with the same features as the Advance for just $2500 more. I recall reading (or maybe it was in a video) that the TLX-S will be available with the Tech or Advance package as well, so I don't expect it to be under $50k.
Originally Posted by SamDoe1
Optional on BMW that are likely standard or free on TLX
- Color that isn't white ($550+)
- Leather seats ($1500)
- Heated seats ($500 unless bought as part of a package which is $1400)
- Better sound system ($875)
- Adaptive suspension ($700)
- Driving assistance package like Honda Sensing ($2400)
Add in a starting price that's ~$12k higher to begin with and it starts to make a lot of sense.
Optional on BMW that are likely standard or free on TLX
- Color that isn't white ($550+)
- Leather seats ($1500)
- Heated seats ($500 unless bought as part of a package which is $1400)
- Better sound system ($875)
- Adaptive suspension ($700)
- Driving assistance package like Honda Sensing ($2400)
Add in a starting price that's ~$12k higher to begin with and it starts to make a lot of sense.
Wait, are you saying that TL-S will have no options and everything is standard for $45k?
I would like to see that...
cuz Acura wont sell many when the car gets over 50k... especially in today's market
Also the only thing that Honda will offer is the $700 equivalent honda sensing, the other driver assistance $1700 (BMW's Auto pilot) wont be standard if Acura even offers that.
Last edited by oonowindoo; 07-30-2020 at 03:37 PM.
I think pricing will be a place where Honda can try to compete with the German boys.
Looking at BMW's website, the M340i starts at $54,700. Anything other than the basic white is a bit extra, along with the wheels and interior color/leather/etc.
Looking at options/packages:
$1400 - Premium (HUD, heated steering and front seats)
$2600 - Executive (HUD, heated steering wheel and front seats, gesture control, "adaptive LED with laserlight")
$700 - Driving assistance package (BSD, LDW, parking distance control)
$1,700 - Driving assistance professional package (above + "traffic jam assistant" and "active assistant driving pro")
$700 - Parking assistance package ( sensors, self parallel park, 3D view, rear view camera*)
$500 - Wireless charging and wifi hotspot
$300 - Remote engine start
$250 - Power tailgate
Looking at all that...except for the higher level semi-autopolit stuff and the gimmicky 3D camera...for a car that is in the upper-mid tier 3-series, it doesn't come with what I would say should be standard for a luxury sedan.
Honda could include heated steering wheel/front seats, HUD, BSD/LDW/Parking sensors and wireless charging as standard and if priced below $50,000 you have some competition there....
To me it seems like many of these options are not "gimmicky stuff that you can't even get on an Acura"
Taking out the gesture control and the higher level autopilot stuff you're with these options:
$1400 premium package
$700 driving assistance package
$500 wireless charging and wifi
You're at $57,300...and this is the basic white color it seems...other exterior color is about $500 more
As you are correct with pricing on options for the M340i, civicdrivr posted what was already posted before with the TLX options. We don't know what the TLX-S will come with standard. It may very well come with limited options and to get all the options could easily get you over 50K. The thing with BMW , a lot of consumers buying brand new are getting 7-9% off MSRP which makes a difference. The benefit of picking up a used (1 year lease return) BMW, mainly the price. I personally will never buy any vehicle new as they are not worth it to me. Again, it's just a personal thing to me. Nothing wrong for those that do. Prime example of buying my fully loaded 2019 X3 M40i for 47K out the door with CPO and maintenance package. It was 8 months old when I bought it. I can tell you, I can really do without the whole gesture control stuff. It's cool but not worth it to me.
Yeah the tricky game is what to include in the standard TLX-S and what to leave as options.
Given it is Type-S, it may already come with adaptive dampers and the decklid spoiler and the nicer/bigger wheels....so the big unknown is what luxury/convenience option it will come with and what to leave out. I'm sure they're looking at how to competitive in that segment vs the Germans...
This is the feature walk that was delivered to dealers for the non-Type S TLX:
If the base model does truly start at $35k, the Advance will add $7500-9500. That would mean a fully loaded TLX 2.0T Advance will be $42,500-44,500. There's no way in hell the base TLX-S will come with the same features as the Advance for just $2500 more. I recall reading (or maybe it was in a video) that the TLX-S will be available with the Tech or Advance package as well, so I don't expect it to be under $50k.
See above.
Also, some paints will cost extra:
To be honest, a lot of what you get in the advance vs tech are gimmicky features. The tech pack in the TLX-S is what I'd expect the $45k to net. The adaptive dampers come standard on the type S model. I guess we'll see what happens but the big selling point for an Acura over a BMW was cost for features. It would be stupid of them to not play that hand.
Originally Posted by oonowindoo
Wait, are you saying that TL-S will have no options and everything is standard for $45k?
I would like to see that...
cuz Acura wont sell many when the car gets over 50k... especially in today's market
Also the only thing that Honda will offer is the $700 equivalent honda sensing, the other driver assistance $1700 (BMW's Auto pilot) wont be standard if Acura even offers that.
We'll find out but I'd be astonished if the $45k price didn't include many more options (at least the tech package level) than the base. $10k for just the engine upgrade and AWD isn't worth it.
Also, the Acura Watch or whatever trade name they are going off of, is the same as the BMW driving assistant plus thing. It's just low speed ACC and lane keep/centering type stuff.
As you are correct with pricing on options for the M340i, civicdrivr posted what was already posted before with the TLX options. We don't know what the TLX-S will come with standard. It may very well come with limited options and to get all the options could easily get you over 50K. The thing with BMW , a lot of consumers buying brand new are getting 7-9% off MSRP which makes a difference. The benefit of picking up a used (1 year lease return) BMW, mainly the price. I personally will never buy any vehicle new as they are not worth it to me. Again, it's just a personal thing to me. Nothing wrong for those that do. Prime example of buying my fully loaded 2019 X3 M40i for 47K out the door with CPO and maintenance package. It was 8 months old when I bought it. I can tell you, I can really do without the whole gesture control stuff. It's cool but not worth it to me.
talking about discount, i hope Acura wont make the same mistake as they did with TLX for the first 2 years when it was introduced.
They held on to them like they were gift from God...offering $1000 off on a $40k Acura TLX is an insult
talking about discount, i hope Acura wont make the same mistake as they did with TLX for the first 2 years when it was introduced.
They held on to them like they were gift from God...offering $1000 off on a $40k Acura TLX is an insult
Yeah, I'm glad I waited a couple months because I was able to get $8K off a $36K car. 22% on a car that's barely been out for 2 years is encroaching on Nissan's turf.
To be honest, a lot of what you get in the advance vs tech are gimmicky features. The tech pack in the TLX-S is what I'd expect the $45k to net. The adaptive dampers come standard on the type S model. I guess we'll see what happens but the big selling point for an Acura over a BMW was cost for features. It would be stupid of them to not play that hand.
We'll find out but I'd be astonished if the $45k price didn't include many more options (at least the tech package level) than the base. $10k for just the engine upgrade and AWD isn't worth it.
Also, the Acura Watch or whatever trade name they are going off of, is the same as the BMW driving assistant plus thing. It's just low speed ACC and lane keep/centering type stuff.
Many people complained about BMW's old a la Carte option structure. Ppl complained that it does not come with anything, everything is option. I personally prefer that way since i can build it the way i wanted without paying for BS features that i will never use (aka 20 other things just to get to Laser light)
BMW now has changed from Option list to packages.. like Lexus and Acura... Yes, cars have more standard features but it also has higher base price and bunch of BS that i didnt even know i had.
Just the other day i just found out that my car can parallel park itself.... after 2 years of having it... The most useless shit ever and i paid for it as part of the package...
Last edited by oonowindoo; 07-30-2020 at 04:47 PM.
Many people complained about BMW's old a la Carte option structure. Ppl complained that it does not come with anything, everything is option. I personally prefer that way since i can build it the way i wanted without paying for BS features that i will never use (aka 20 other things just to get to Laser light)
BMW now has changed from Option list to packages.. like Lexus and Acura... Yes, cars have more standard features but it also has higher base price and bunch of BS that i didnt even know i had.
Just the other day i just found out that my car can parallel park itself.... after 2 years of having it... The most useless shit ever and i paid for it as part of the package...
This is a great point. I've never bought new, I'd rather someone else take the hit. But these packages always result in getting features I don't want, do to get the one I do.
I fully agree with you guys and the options. Not everyone wants every single option. I've seen many build sheets from BMW owners. Many of them pick such random options, but overall pick the same common options. When it comes to Acura, you can't have it all without giving something up and even then you still can't have it all.
Companies are gonna be more inclined to do what makes them more money. Within reason, of course.
Options packages instead of a la carte = fewer unique SKUs to manage. I'm sure their margins became more competitive and production increased as a result. There are probably other benefits to this approach too.
On the other hand, Porsche charges a la carte and the price is closer to what packages cost
Many people complained about BMW's old a la Carte option structure. Ppl complained that it does not come with anything, everything is option. I personally prefer that way since i can build it the way i wanted without paying for BS features that i will never use (aka 20 other things just to get to Laser light)
BMW now has changed from Option list to packages.. like Lexus and Acura... Yes, cars have more standard features but it also has higher base price and bunch of BS that i didnt even know i had.
Just the other day i just found out that my car can parallel park itself.... after 2 years of having it... The most useless shit ever and i paid for it as part of the package...
I get it and I am a fan of a la carte options but not when it's like $500 for a stupid backup camera or paying extra for something that's free, not even part of a package, on a Toyota Corolla. Make the frivolous stuff like laser lights and self parking optional but keep the key things that people buying luxury cars want like HID/LED, heated seats, and driving assist features.
As you are correct with pricing on options for the M340i, civicdrivr posted what was already posted before with the TLX options. We don't know what the TLX-S will come with standard. It may very well come with limited options and to get all the options could easily get you over 50K. The thing with BMW , a lot of consumers buying brand new are getting 7-9% off MSRP which makes a difference. The benefit of picking up a used (1 year lease return) BMW, mainly the price. I personally will never buy any vehicle new as they are not worth it to me. Again, it's just a personal thing to me. Nothing wrong for those that do. Prime example of buying my fully loaded 2019 X3 M40i for 47K out the door with CPO and maintenance package. It was 8 months old when I bought it. I can tell you, I can really do without the whole gesture control stuff. It's cool but not worth it to me.
new car sales are very low. Its better to buy new with choice of color and still get very good resale value. A 2019 RDX CPO is not much cheaper than 2020 RDX new.
as long good deal on new one. there is not much money to lose on them especially on Acura.
new car sales are very low. Its better to buy new with choice of color and still get very good resale value. A 2019 RDX CPO is not much cheaper than 2020 RDX new.
as long good deal on new one. there is not much money to lose on them especially on Acura.
^ Acura doesn't give out much in the way of discounts so they tend to hold their value. Euro brands discount heavily and have terrible maintenance costs. GM/Ford are pretty much the same.
As far as the 355HP/TQ goes, what I care about is the 0-60 time. Honda/Acura has had the same 5.5-6 second range for it's V6 sedan IE 3G TL, 4G TL, 2G TSX V6, 1G TLX V6. The TLX-S should be sub 5-seconds in 0-60 and should be a MINIMUM of 4.9 like the newish Civic Type-R. Plus the Type-R is getting more power and AWD for it's next gen which is probably going to be in the low 4.2-4.3 second range....
If acura owners can't even have the same performance as a Honda, what's the point of calling acura sporty? It's honestly a slap in the face to performance enthusiasts that look to Honda/Acura when BMW can do do 4.6second 0-60 with the 440 and MB C43 AMG can do 4.2 seconds. That should be more than enough to show acura what a real performance metric is rather than estimated 355HP/TQ. I could estimate my lawnmower at 355HP if I wanted and it wouldn't mean JACK!
I dont think the tlx s will match the 0 to 60 time of the German sedans since Honda has always been super conservative with their launch control. Just look at the launch rpm of the Nsx at 2200rpm. 911 launches at 5500rpm for comparison.
The better metric is 5 to 60mph and 1/4 mile trap speed. I don't think the tlx s can match here as well. I think the tlx s will be heavier too.
But the pricing of $45k usd starting, if true, would win a lot of customers. Base on the tlx 2.0t pricing chart, the tech is about $39k and advance $44k. I can see sh awd and a by upgrade being $6k more. So $45k for a tlx s tech and $50k for a tlx s advance is entirely possible. That would undercut the German sedans significantly. Heck, the 330i awd starts at $43k. So for the same money you may be able to get a 355hp tlx s instead. That to me would be quite attractive.
As far as the 355HP/TQ goes, what I care about is the 0-60 time. Honda/Acura has had the same 5.5-6 second range for it's V6 sedan IE 3G TL, 4G TL, 2G TSX V6, 1G TLX V6. The TLX-S should be sub 5-seconds in 0-60 and should be a MINIMUM of 4.9 like the newish Civic Type-R. Plus the Type-R is getting more power and AWD for it's next gen which is probably going to be in the low 4.2-4.3 second range....
Now that I've found an S4 6MT exactly optioned the way I want, an AWD Type R is really the only thing I could see making me sell it. I won't give up AWD living in Canada, or a stick. I'm intrigued by the upcoming WRX/STi redesign, but hope Subaru doesn't botch it. Would love to see a wagon come back, but doubt it. The only other option is a Golf R. I'd be fine with them making the AWD Type R an Acura, I don't care as long as the give us SH-AWD with a manual.
The 0-60 time isn't going to make me not want to get it. BMW has been in the market for performance for ever. Trying to find a car that will match up to its performance and handle better is a tall order. It's what they do. So trying to compare the TLX Type S to one without even having one to test drive is kind of pointless. I'm all for competitive comparisons but BMW has an unfair advantage being that it's models are actually on the street whereas the Type S won't be on the road until next year. But you'll still have Acura/Honda's reputation of being more reliable than BMW/Benz. And given Honda's history of underrating their numbers, I'm sure the 355hp is a low rating. But all this is hearsay and conjuncture. We won't know any actual true numbers until it's made and people can get it on dynos and driving on a track.
The 0-60 time isn't going to make me not want to get it. BMW has been in the market for performance for ever. Trying to find a car that will match up to its performance and handle better is a tall order. It's what they do. So trying to compare the TLX Type S to one without even having one to test drive is kind of pointless. I'm all for competitive comparisons but BMW has an unfair advantage being that it's models are actually on the street whereas the Type S won't be on the road until next year. But you'll still have Acura/Honda's reputation of being more reliable than BMW/Benz. And given Honda's history of underrating their numbers, I'm sure the 355hp is a low rating. But all this is hearsay and conjuncture. We won't know any actual true numbers until it's made and people can get it on dynos and driving on a track.
The problem with the underrated comment is that most automakers - ESPECIALLY VW and BMW - underrate their power output. The BMW is rated at 382/369 but regularly matches that power at the wheels. The S4 is in a similar boat (349/369 rating, typically makes 330/370 at the wheels). So yeah, we've gotta hope the Acura is underrated.
And just because BMW has been historically good at building drivers cars, that shouldn't mean that other carmakers can't attempt to build a competitor. If you're designing and engineering a car as a compromise to another makers car, you're doing it wrong.
Acura TLX with 10speed auto will have much more long distance range.
Reminds me of when the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio. It broke down. Then on their long term drive, they said it stayed in the shop more than it stayed on the road. Doesn't look good if it's always breaking down or having issues that require it to stay in the shop. I wouldn't want to buy a car that's always needing to have coil added at 40k miles.
I think pricing will be a place where Honda can try to compete with the German boys.
Looking at BMW's website, the M340i starts at $54,700. Anything other than the basic white is a bit extra, along with the wheels and interior color/leather/etc.
Looking at options/packages:
$1400 - Premium (HUD, heated steering and front seats)
$2600 - Executive (HUD, heated steering wheel and front seats, gesture control, "adaptive LED with laserlight")
$700 - Driving assistance package (BSD, LDW, parking distance control)
$1,700 - Driving assistance professional package (above + "traffic jam assistant" and "active assistant driving pro")
$700 - Parking assistance package ( sensors, self parallel park, 3D view, rear view camera*)
$500 - Wireless charging and wifi hotspot
$300 - Remote engine start
$250 - Power tailgate
Looking at all that...except for the higher level semi-autopolit stuff and the gimmicky 3D camera...for a car that is in the upper-mid tier 3-series, it doesn't come with what I would say should be standard for a luxury sedan.
Honda could include heated steering wheel/front seats, HUD, BSD/LDW/Parking sensors and wireless charging as standard and if priced below $50,000 you have some competition there....
To me it seems like many of these options are not "gimmicky stuff that you can't even get on an Acura"
Taking out the gesture control and the higher level autopilot stuff you're with these options:
$1400 premium package
$700 driving assistance package
$500 wireless charging and wifi
You're at $57,300...and this is the basic white color it seems...other exterior color is about $500 more
+1, This is the most annoying thing about MB/Audi/BMW, the constant nickel and dime approach to configuring their cars as it typically drives up the bottom line costs.
One area most owners don't get too concerned with is long term ownership cost of say 10+ years and 100k+ miles. It's one area that the older Acura's and Honda's thrived in (not included the dreaded 4AT/5AT woes of the late 90's to early 00's although our 2003 Pilot has 320k miles on the original 5AT and J35). Most 2000's Audi's, BMW and MB are literally done by 100K miles in terms of practical ownership cause of part replacement and repairs needed to keep them on the road.
CR has seen improvement in the German's in the last decade but I'm still curious how that holds up past a decade and 100k+ miles.
Acura TLX with 10speed auto will have much more long distance range.
There's a well documented 10 page thread about this on bimmerpost. The B58 engine is slightly different in 2020. It's not the same one used from 2016-2019. They changed the oil sensor which caused a lot of faulty readings , changed the oil intervals and re-calibrated the system since the car checks the oil level (no dip stick). This is really an issue on the M340i. I haven't seen this issue with any of the other B58 equipped models.
As for the MPG, I've nailed 31-32 many times with my M40i and have a picture of it. I've also nailed 38.6 with my 2018 X3 with the B48 engine, which I have multiple pictures. We don't know anything about the new TLX with real world MPG readings, so I wouldn't just say shit to say shit. I know you're notorious for rambling on about things. Wait til the car comes out and it's tested. I wouldn't hold my breath as far as trouble free 1st year production models. Don't forget, I worked for Acura, I know 1st hand about the reliability of the entire line up.
LOL on the 2 quarts, back in 2013 my brother in South Beach rented me and my family a 740i (he's a premier member of some rental car company can't recall who). New 2014 740i with the turbo six, with ~400 miles on it when we got it. The one quart low came on after a week and another 600 miles we put on it. I remember scrolling through the owners manual (all online in the infotainment system) to find any level indicator other than the sensor. I did put a quart into it and lo and behold, the 1 quart low warning went away.
So one quart of oil in ~1k miles and our 18 year old Pilot with 320k miles goes through ~1/3 quart between oil changes (6-7k)
Reminds me of when the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio. It broke down. Then on their long term drive, they said it stayed in the shop more than it stayed on the road. Doesn't look good if it's always breaking down or having issues that require it to stay in the shop. I wouldn't want to buy a car that's always needing to have coil added at 40k miles.
^ Yeah the Giulia review was eye-opening!
Originally Posted by Legend2TL
LOL on the 2 quarts, back in 2013 my brother in South Beach rented me and my family a 740i (he's a premier member of some rental car company can't recall who). New 2014 740i with the turbo six, with ~400 miles on it when we got it. The one quart low came on after a week and another 600 miles we put on it. I remember scrolling through the owners manual (all online in the infotainment system) to find any level indicator other than the sensor. I did put a quart into it and lo and behold, the 1 quart low warning went away.
So one quart of oil in ~1k miles and our 18 year old Pilot with 320k miles goes through ~1/3 quart between oil changes (6-7k)
Don't forget that BMW is still having issues with valve stem seals (since 2002) on their V8's and haven't rectified it. Plus all the oil consumption too! Bimmerfest has tons of threads with unhappy owners of V8s.
Originally Posted by civicdrivr
I'm not one to defend BMW, but Honda isn't without their fair share of issues on their modern turbocharged engines.
Honda has had issues with the fuel dilution due to running really rich on cold startup. DI engines run very rich on startup vs Port Injection and makes the situation for oil dilution worse
I'm not one to defend BMW, but Honda isn't without their fair share of issues on their modern turbocharged engines.
Our 2017 CRV is always above the dipstick upper mark when I change the oil despite it being at line of the upper mark when I changed it prior.
Kinda wonder how this will affect long term reliability. I've called the Honda service department we purchased it from and they claim the level increase we're getting is normal and does not need the S/W update
Originally Posted by csmeance
Honda has had issues with the fuel dilution due to running really rich on cold startup. DI engines run very rich on startup vs Port Injection and makes the situation for oil dilution worse
One Honda dealer even made a cute video explaining the 1.5T oil dilution problem
LOL on the 2 quarts, back in 2013 my brother in South Beach rented me and my family a 740i (he's a premier member of some rental car company can't recall who). New 2014 740i with the turbo six, with ~400 miles on it when we got it. The one quart low came on after a week and another 600 miles we put on it. I remember scrolling through the owners manual (all online in the infotainment system) to find any level indicator other than the sensor. I did put a quart into it and lo and behold, the 1 quart low warning went away.
So one quart of oil in ~1k miles and our 18 year old Pilot with 320k miles goes through ~1/3 quart between oil changes (6-7k)
Yeah but the BMW has more horsepower and is faster in a straight line and has heritage.
If you want a reliable beater you should've just bought a Honda.
The problem with the underrated comment is that most automakers - ESPECIALLY VW and BMW - underrate their power output. The BMW is rated at 382/369 but regularly matches that power at the wheels. The S4 is in a similar boat (349/369 rating, typically makes 330/370 at the wheels). So yeah, we've gotta hope the Acura is underrated.
And just because BMW has been historically good at building drivers cars, that shouldn't mean that other carmakers can't attempt to build a competitor. If you're designing and engineering a car as a compromise to another makers car, you're doing it wrong.
I understand that. The main thing is everyone trying to compare numbers on a car that hasn't even been sold on the market yet to a car that is already tearing up the pavement. I do hope their numbers are underrated tho. I'm sure they are. I just wish Honda/Acura would take page out of BMWs book for their wheels. Lol. Come on Honda. Accord Sport with 19x8.5s with a +55 offset? Give me a stock 19x9 +40. Lol. Give it a nice concave.
Originally Posted by Legend2TL
LOL on the 2 quarts, back in 2013 my brother in South Beach rented me and my family a 740i (he's a premier member of some rental car company can't recall who). New 2014 740i with the turbo six, with ~400 miles on it when we got it. The one quart low came on after a week and another 600 miles we put on it. I remember scrolling through the owners manual (all online in the infotainment system) to find any level indicator other than the sensor. I did put a quart into it and lo and behold, the 1 quart low warning went away.
So one quart of oil in ~1k miles and our 18 year old Pilot with 320k miles goes through ~1/3 quart between oil changes (6-7k)
And thus the reason why I wanted to talk my dad out of the 7 series. Every single generation always has issues with the motor, electronics or both.
Originally Posted by csmeance
^ Yeah the Giulia review was eye-opening!
Don't forget that BMW is still having issues with valve stem seals (since 2002) on their V8's and haven't rectified it. Plus all the oil consumption too! Bimmerfest has tons of threads with unhappy owners of V8s.
Honda has had issues with the fuel dilution due to running really rich on cold startup. DI engines run very rich on startup vs Port Injection and makes the situation for oil dilution worse
I was disappointed in the Guilia review. I hated the looks of it then saw one in person and was like "It does look nice." Great looks. Nice numbers. Horrible reliability. Lol. Usual Chrysler product.
What is with BMW and their seals? They charge all that money but can't develop a seal that doesn't have issues?
Cannot believe there are some comparing the reliability of the Quadrifoglio to the M340i. BMWs may not be on the same level of Toyota/Lexus in terms of reliability - but Honda/Acura aren't either. Toyota/Lexus tend to be more reliable because they are more conservative with their designs too. Behind on electronics, engine power, etc.
Most cars today are pretty reliable - as in, won't leave you stranded on the side of the road. You may have some weird software bugs, like BMW's Remote 3D View for example (something Honda/Acura don't even offer) - but it is more of a minor annoyance than a mechanical problem.
Just funny, this is the same argument people were having in the early 2000s when people were saying the TL Type S was more reliable than the BMW 330i of the time - except all of our TL-S 5AT's fell apart and left us stranded on the side of the road! It is going to take some time to see what long term reliability is on the M340i and the TLX-S, at least a few years until we have a bunch of people with higher mileage examples. I'm betting low milage reliability will be more or less the same.
In terms of price though, BMW is much more aggressive in discounts off of MSRP - I think they have the margins built in while Acura tends to not discount much at all. I was able to get $10k off the MSRP of my M340i. It has almost every single bell/whistle, so it is still a lot more than the guesstimate of $45k for the TLX-S, but if there are options that bring the TLX-S up to $53-55k (assuming little to no discount too) then the difference is a lot more negligible.
I do like the look of the TLX-S though - certainly more than the horrible grille on the new 4 series and M3/M4, so definitely interested to see how it performs - especially as a former TL-S owner
I think discount is mainly based on supply and demand. If BMW wants to sell a certain number of cars, they will adjust the incentives to get the to that point as close as possible without hurting too much of the bottom line. BMW has the luxury to have a higher starting price because of its brand image, and that itself helps the brand image to be more premium. Acura doesn't have that option. And with the ways the options and packages are designed for a typical BMW, there's likely more wiggle room for discount. The Acura business model involves way less options/packages, just a few trims, and that helps save costs. But it also means there's less room for offering discount I guess. They also need to have that huge price buffer to ensure people are interested in looking at them in the first place.
Acura TLX with 10speed auto will have much more long distance range.
Originally Posted by civicdrivr
I'm not one to defend BMW, but Honda isn't without their fair share of issues on their modern turbocharged engines.
Originally Posted by csmeance
Honda has had issues with the fuel dilution due to running really rich on cold startup. DI engines run very rich on startup vs Port Injection and makes the situation for oil dilution worse
Honda solved their oil consumption issues by diluting the oil.
Acura’s redesigned TLX gets an updated ELS Studio 3D audio system with 17 speakers, twin subwoofers and 710 watts that can make anything “uncomfortably loud.”Sebastian Blanco | Aug 11, 2020
The new 2021 Acura TLX loves Guns N' Roses more than I do.
I've heard "Paradise City" a zillion times, like anyone else who went to junior high school in the late '80s. But I have never noticed the rumbling bass line quite like it sounds in the updated ELS Studio 3D audio system in the new sedan.
Developed together with Grammy-winning sound engineer Elliot Scheiner (pictured below) and Panasonic, Acura introduced the ELS Studio 3D system in the 2019 RDX, but the 16-speaker system had to be modified in the transition from CUV to sedan.
Specifically, the subwoofer driver needed to be split into 2 smaller speakers (which Acura calls the Twin Telford subwoofers, named after the 19th Century Scottish bridge designer) because there wasn't as much packaging room in the TLX.
AcuraThe two 5-in. (13-cm) speakers are still in the rear of the vehicle, corner-mounted and pointed inward at 13.5 degree angles above the trunk space to provide a similar experience for low-frequencies in either vehicle, even though the TLX has 17 speakers total.
Acura says this new setup reduces rattles and vibrations in the rear package shelf, and "ensures mechanical rigidity while delivering focused, low distortion bass."
Some of the TLX's speakers are there specifically to provide the rear seat passengers with better sound, including 3.5-in. (9-cm) rear door speakers, 2 Highline overhead speakers (3 are some up front, too, naturally) and 2 3.5-in. rear surround speakers.
Put it all together and the 16-channel, 710-watt ELS Studio 3D audio system (pictured below) is the most powerful ever installed in a TLX.
In fact, those 710 watts help the audio system get loud, perhaps a bit too loud.
Acura wasn't allowing journalists to drive the car just yet, which means there was no wind or road noise in the background during my test, but even so, I measured the volume at around 92-94 dB when the system was turned all the way up for a Pearl Jam song ("Dance of the Clairvoyants," if you're curious).
The CDC says prolonged exposure to sounds above 80 dB can result in hearing damage after two hours of exposure. Above 95 dB, that drops to 50 minutes, but it was uncomfortably loud after just a few seconds.
When it's not at top volume, the system sounds absolutely the best when you're listening to uncompressed audio in a 5.1 mix (2 words: Bohemian Rhapsody), which the TLX can accept through a USB port in the armrest console.
But even if you are streaming compressed audio from Pandora or Spotify, you can get decent sound from the ELS Studio.
Acura spokesperson Chris Naughton says the system's Compressed Audio Enhancement setting can take music with a bit rate less than 192 kB/s and improve the sound, even taking the low bit rate of Sirius/XM radio to "help it sound as enjoyable as it can be," he says.
2-channel files can be unmixed to 5.1-channel surround by the system's DTS Neural Surround setting to give the music more of a solid center sound while also taking "the unique left and right components and spread them around wide and to the rear of the listener. On some wide stereo sources, this can be quite revealing and entertaining, and shows off the reverberation and ambience imbedded in the original recording," Naughton says.
Whatever magic happens behind the scenes, there's no question this unmixed audio can indeed sound tremendous in the new TLX (pictured below). It even sounded good when I was singing along.
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07-30-2020, 02:44 PM
and our 18 year old Pilot with 320k miles goes through ~1/3 quart between oil changes (6-7k) 
Honda has had issues with the fuel dilution due to running really rich on cold startup. DI engines run very rich on startup vs Port Injection and makes the situation for oil dilution worse
Our 2017 CRV is always above the dipstick upper mark when I change the oil despite it being at line of the upper mark when I changed it prior.
omardrives
The two 5-in. (13-cm) speakers are still in the rear of the vehicle, corner-mounted and pointed inward at 13.5 degree angles above the trunk space to provide a similar experience for low-frequencies in either vehicle, even though the TLX has 17 speakers total.
