JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

OH DAMN you got a valid point.

You should change your username to EH? or HUH?

Fibonacci

What you call an "abortion", I call a value play.

Dude, we get it, you hate the 4G TL, you've said it a million times. I dare you to show me another 5.2 second car, with a kick ass stock stereo, super duper torque vectoring all wheel drive with a manual transmission for $38 gizzle like mine.







I think we are in agreement here, I'm nominating myself as design head. Use the NSX concept plenum and a dinner plate size A-caliper and call it a day.







Now thats just crazy talk. Aint gonna happen. Hyundai wants to create a luxury brand, they just haven't committed the capital to do so because it is a huge risk and a huge investment. Honda has already made the investment, they just need to improve the product line-up.

YEH

It's a huge risk and huge investment to spend the $$ on both RWD (+V8 powerplants) and a luxury brand with a separate dealer network.

Hyundai did the former and not the latter, whereas Honda did the latter and not the former.

Looking at the field of Japanese lux brands, such a strategy (of doing both, nevermind one) may not have been optimal.

The heyday of the Japanese lux brands was during the 1990s-2000s when the Germans were asleep and the domestics were in total disarray.

But now, the Germans are totally on their game and Cadillac is making a major comeback.

There is so much more competition in the luxury market.

For badge-whore buyers, they can opt for T4 German instead of purchasing a V6 (RWD Japanese).

For those who want a V8 for the price of a T4 German or a V6 Japanese, they can get a Genesis.

And there is now actual competition from the domestics with the ATS and CTS (and even the XTS which competes with the RLX) and the MKZ (which compete with the ES).

There will be additional competition when Lincoln launches the new MKS, the rumored compact sedan (ILX competitor) and maybe even a RWD sports sedan (based on the new Mustang platform).

There's also new competition at the higher/sportier end of the market with Panamera (with Porsche working on a midsize sedan) and Maserati just entering the fray.

There was a time when Toyota sold around 60k of the GS and LS; now Toyota sells only 30k of the GS and LS combined.

kurtatx

Stop being so sensible!

Moog-Type-S

Hey, there were plenty of people that liked and purchased Pontiac Azteks at rock bottom prices too.

...and slick move framing your argument as if it is "I" that does not like the 4G TL design.....meanwhile the entire automotive press at best called the design "polarizing".....but hey, you bought one, you gotta defend yourself.....I'll give ya that.

Fat, ugly chicks have some very good personalities and smarts too. :wink:

and you speak of me beating a dead-horse?
People have been saying that for over a decade around here.

VR1

I don't think I've ever seen anyone on a forum as big a douchebag as this guy.

Moog-Type-S

Says the guy with ugly in his av.

Stay out of this one grasshopper.

Me and Fibi gots some big boy bidness to take care off.

Best you stay on the sidelines....Motown boy can get a bit crazy at times....especially with his wings having a tough time in the east.

kurtatx

I'm still confused why you post here.

MTEAZY

Thanks for the Hyundai insight YEH.

kurtatx

He's averaged a post every two hours for the past 13 years. This is all he has. Don't tell me, I'm a fanboy.

Moog-Type-S

Fanboys = post counts?

Who knew?

Moog-Type-S

Let's be clear, Yummy does give me 1 canadian looooony for every time I post in a Aston Martin thread.

Full disclosure here.

Costco

:disgunbgud:

neuronbob

So when is the NY auto show again?

As far as automotive style.....the RLX and TLX are baby steps in the right direction. The 4G TL.......pass the Dutchie on the left hand side....pass the Dutchie on the left hand side, it has a burn......because the Acura designers were smoking something to greenlight that hideous design.

...and yes, I am aging myself.

neuronbob

So when is the NY auto show again?

As far as automotive style.....the RLX and TLX are baby steps in the right direction. The 4G TL.......pass the Dutchie on the left hand side....pass the Dutchie on the left hand side, it has a burn......because the Acura designers were smoking something to greenlight that hideous design.

...and yes, I am aging myself.

MeehowsBRZ

Yeah, but look at it. And I'm pretty sure you just described a Golf R.

EhkoXC

*Whoosh*

(That's the sound of the post you responded to going right over your head)

phile

Opens every year on Good Friday. So whenever that is

fsttyms1

i think they let their kids with crayons design that thing (the beak).

fsttyms1

Doesnt matter what it can do, if one is embarrassed to drive the thing because of its looks its an abortion.

Pass what ever it is you are smoking. If you dont think Hyundai hasnt committed the capitol and Honda has you are Hyundai has, been there and done that. They are making larger strides in the last 5 years than Acura has in the last 15. They are far exceeding Acura in the lux dept with just the Gen and Equus.

fsttyms1

You dont get around the forum much then. I can name quite a few far worse Including the guy that thanked you

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

Very true, indeed.

fsttyms1

white text

Fibonacci

Drive what you like, its not that hard. It cracks me up that some of you get so worked up about this. I've never been "embarrassed" to get in my TL even though I can easily afford something twice as expensive. If I lived in SoCal where people sit in slow moving traffic all day, the weather is nice and a car is viewed as an extension of yourself, perhaps I'd make a different choice.

Living in the Midwest where the streets are shitty, road salt, pothole debris and slush/mud/grime cake my commuter for 4-5 months - I care more about substance over style. Same reason I'm not rolling in a sports car already. Having a fun car sit in the garage from Mid Nov thru late March would be too painful. Some day I'll crack though, but you'll have to pass me Moogelino's pipe first.


I meant committed the capital to create a luxury brand and a dealer network. I certainly don't dispute Hyundai is building some very impressive cars these days.

fsttyms1

I wouldnt mind a 4th gen. Other than the grille i think its a fantastic car, but it still doesnt mean that i have to sugar coat the looks of it (the grille). And like you, it cracks some of us up about those that get so worked up about trying to defend the looks of the car.

MeehowsBRZ

One could easily say Acura isn't a luxury brand. They can't really sell anything over $50k and compete more with Buick's and Lincoln's then Mercedes and BMW.

Legend2TL

, meh

Acura may not sell many $50K+ RLX's, but they sell plenty of $50K+ MDX's

kurtatx

Their luxury in the SUV realm, but just premium in sedans. No coupes

dom

Am I the only one who doesn't really mind the 4G TL from 2012 and up after they revised that terrible beak? Its not a looker by any stretch but I'd buy it.

EhkoXC

No, you're not. I didn't like 2009-2011, but the 2012 changes made the car at least look acceptable. I realize no car company wants to hear that their most important product is just "acceptable" in terms of looks, but it's a far cry from the original monstrosity that was the 4G.

The sad part is, the 4G is actually a pretty compelling car under the skin. I've driven the 3G extensively (my Dad owns one), and I've had the 4G as a loaner before. Dynamically, the 4G is actually the better car, it's the just styling that does it in. And while the changes helped, the damage was already done, the initial impression was already cemented in people's mind.

The TLX seems to solve that with better styling, and hopefully incorporating lessons learned from the issues of the ILX (powertrain, interior) and the RLX (bland styling). I'm not trying to say that they have a guaranteed hit on their hands, but they've at least given themselves a much better chance this time around.

MeehowsBRZ

I wouldn't buy it, but if I got one for free I wouldn't be embarrassed to drive it.

RPhilMan1

I came very close to buying one. Had a factory order for a '12 SH-AWD 6MT. For around $38k OTD and 0.9% financing they were offering me, I thought it was a great deal.

The model year changeover ended up canceling my order and I couldn't get a '13 at the same deal (~July/August 2012) because it was the new model.

I tried. But yes, I didn't mind the model refresh of the 4G and it truly is a good car for the price I could have had it at. $45k though? No, I wouldn't buy it.

Costco

Nope, I actually like the 2012+. But I still hate the '09-11. That Barbara Streisand-esque beak is just awful. I'll keep it short and just say that there were many mistakes in the '09 design that were fixed in the '12.

Costco

There are obviously some trolls in this forum. Then some with higher standards than others. Many people in here here aren't terribly biased. At least not nearly as bad as the model-specific subforums it's like one big circlejerk in those.

"Hey guys, look at me validating my purchase, anyone else agree that the car you bought is just awesome, or what?"

AZuser

Black Tire

Mind you because of the piss poor styling. You could probably pick up a good used one for dirt cheap.

oonowindoo

I will be wearing this while driving if i had a 4G TL

Fibonacci

So basically you are agreeing to the same conclusion I had when in the market to replace my 1G TSX. Fantastic substance, not so much in the style dept. Like I joked many moons ago, take the ugly to da bank until the stubborn folks at Acura's design dept get a clue.

DEEPLY DISCOUNTED POWER PLENUMS FOR MANKIND

fsttyms1

I agree. Especially when painted body color or a color to make it not stand out as much. Its much more subdued.

fsttyms1

Pretty much. I havent lost faith in the substance that they are putting into the cars. I have however lost faith in whoever is making the decisions on styling. The cars visually just arent as compelling as much of the competition.