Mizouse

who cares if Acura is putting 4at 5at 6at or 99at, its still not a good looking car.

ThermonMermon

with prices soaring on the euros. who knows... the TL could still come out as a decent bang. but still relative to the likes of the G...

Trackruner228

iTrader: (1)

For me its the Maxima.

However no question Acura did a bad job.

savage

is it me or does the back end look like something Saturn would design?

Mokos23

i showed the pic of the 09 TL to my girlfriend. first thing she said was dang that rear end looks like the front end of a car. it's true!

Never Summer

The new E-Class isn't looking very promising... The Maxima however is the ugliest car out of those you listed.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

To be fair the Z06 has super tall gearing and it weighs about 3000lbs, compared with 4000 of the TL. Engine size is one factor, weight is another.

Someone mentioned the LS460 gets 19/27mpg. Well, that's the old rating, the new rating according to fueleconomy.gov is 16/24mpg, don't get me wrong, that's still impressive. But keep in mind, that's a new car, with new engine and new gearbox, as well as a wind-cheating shape that has a very low cd. The old 4.3L V8 with 290hp got 16/23mpg. I don't know, I just find it kind of unfair to compare a new engine/gearbox to a 10 year-old design.

Costco

The upcoming E-Class doesn't look promising... plain best describes it, but its not bad by any means. The current one looks way better than this TL. I think the Maxima would look MUCH better with its headlights changed a bit. I even did a ghetto MS Paint chop....



On the other hand, the TL pretty much has nothing going for it exterior wise. I showed my mom the new TL and she said it was really ugly front and back. Even if you don't think its the ugliest car, its definitely down there at the bottom of the barrel. I feel bad for Acura salespeople.... first they had to try and push the RDX to SUV owners, then the facelifted RL, then the new TSX, and now the TL.

Maxima, G sedan, IS350/ES350, CTS, Genesis sedan, A6, E-Class, 5-series, and the new TL. It'll be interesting to see how this abomination does in a field of competitors like that. The TL comes in last for me.....

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I think the only car Acura dealerships need to push is the RL...but it seems like they don't really care now anyways....RDX, arguably yes, they missed their intended target by a lot. On the other hand, it outsells its main competitors namely the X3 often. TSX, according to Colin, is selling well, from what he said they seem to don't have enough to sell!

Costco

That probably has more to do with price than anything, especially in that $30,000-35,000 class. The TSX and RDX are both notably cheaper than their rivals. We'll see how much the new TL is going to cost. I actually like the TSX aside from the grill, but the RDX's front end looks terrible (not that the X3 looks much better) and the TL looks terrible all around.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I think that’s pretty much Acura’s strategy right? Their prices most of the time are cheaper than others. The new TL starts at $34k for the FWD model and goes up to $42k for the TL-SHAWD loaded with the tech package.

IMO the TL is even worse than the facelifted RL design. The rear of the facelifted RL is good looking, just the front is fugly…but the TL..front and rear are both unacceptable…RDX actually looks fine to me and looks much more “high class” than the X3.

Edward'TLS

That was me. My intention was not to compare a $60K+ Lexus with a $35K TL, but to point out the effectiveness of auto transmissions having more than 5 speeds (in this case - 8 speeds) in achieving good fuel economy and good acceleration performance without using any cylinder-deactivation nor electric-motor gadget.

Why does Acura still stick to a 10 year old tranny design for it's new bread-and-butter TL ? That's my next question.

dom

According to Jeff at TOV the SH-AWD model is now rated at 17/25 up from 17/24 but torque down to 273 from 275.

krio

In the Subaru Forester even worse: 4AT...
I agree with you. The ML Merc with the 7speed select it's so smooth, and in my MDX I feel that for such an engine at least we had to get an 6AT..

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I think a better question is, why does Honda still make their gearbox and not let other transmission experts do it?

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Who are some of the other transmission experts?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Jatco, subsidiary of Nissan and makes auto only (it was also partner with Mazda before). It had been supplying auto gearboxes to Nissan, Mazda, Subaru, Isuzu, Suzuki, BMW, Volkswagen, Land Rover, Hyundai, Jaguar, Ford Europe, Renault, Daimler Chrysler....basically every auto maker has used auto transmission from Jatco, except for Honda(which like I said, makes its own transmission) and Toyota uses Aisin. Then there is ZF that makes both auto and manual, Getrag which mainly makes manual. There is also Borgwarner.

There are some more but I think the ones I listed are the major ones.

LuvMyTSX

I just took my mom to a Subaru dealer to look at a couple cars this morning and found out that Subaru is still using 4ATs and 5MTs for all their cars. Aside from the AWD, I think the number of gears is also a reason for their poor MPG. Subaru should really work on some new trannies IMO.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

I see. How do you know all this?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol, well I just like to read about cars..I mean I like cars...so I pretty much read stuff on them..like from car and driver, motortrend, and different mags, and also this forum is very helpful as it is full of knowledgeable people...and wikipedia is a great source too

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

^ I see. I've been reading them all the time but never heard of trans. manufacturers!

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol, I guess I just spend too much time on this forum :P

sifuacura

iTrader: (1)

not only beamer, but my bro Mercedes Sl500 is the same thing...

majin ssj eric

Honda makes the best manual transmissions on earth. Ever driven an S2000?

phile

I think their issue with the transmissions on their V6's.

Infamous425

rumor has it they have a cvt in the works coming out in the new legacy then the rest of the line.

AsianRage

I thought the 3G didn't have any transmission problems

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea, sorry I should've made it more clear, it's just their AT isn't as good as others. First with their 5AT failure mainly in the 2G TL, and now they are still using 5AT while others have moved to 6, 7, or even 8AT. I personally don't think 8 is necessary at all. 7, arguably yes but the gain is very marginal. 6AT would be beneficial though, especially for the new TL SH-AWD which has a shorter final gear, the extra 6th gear can help improve highway mileage.

And you are right AsianRage, the 3G doesn't have any issue for their AT, if there's any, it's not as serious as the problem found in the 2G TL. Honda seems to be scared to make a new gearbox as it doesn't want the tranny failure to happen again.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, there isn't any technical problems with the 3G TL automatic transmission. It's just that it'd have been great if the gearing of it was more aggressive... Under the WOT, the following gears are always out of the V-Tec powerband range you know?

And it's still the old 5AT.......

fsttyms1

Aside from the known 3rd gear issue in the honda 5 speed, what really is wrong with it? Its stout(as far as internals not breaking and the known issue isnt something breaking) has great gearing for city and hwy?

TSX69

LeftLaneNews

Take the successful 2008 Acura TL, make all the performance upgrades that a tuner could desire, add a techno-geek’s dream package of technology and substitute an edgy grille to make sure everyone will recognize this car on the road and you’ve got the 2009 TL. Then increase the engine power and add all-wheel drive to create the SH-AWD (SH for “super handling”) that eclipses the Type S and you’ve got the second car in Acura’s new TL line-up. Leftlane’s drive on California’s coastal backroads north of San Francisco showed that the new TL is going to make a lot of previous TL owners very happy while allowing Acura to entice some performance sedan enthusiasts away from BMW.

Acura product planners said that extensive study of the “entry-luxury” market segment, coupled with focus group research with current TL owners, determined that the buyer targeted for the TL balances rational judgement with emotional reaction when evaluating an automobile – a logical but not particularly surprising deduction. In their effort to keep the TL as the “class-defining performance luxury sedan,” this owner definition meant simply that Acura had to improve every single attribute on the new model. From the numbers and a quick 150 miles in the new cars, we’d say they’ve succeeded.

What is it?
For the mainstream owner looking for a comfortable car with some luxury touches and an affordable price tag, Acura equips the new TL with a 3.5 liter front-wheel-drive VTEC engine producing 280 horsepower and 254 pound-feet of torque, an increase of over nine percent from the previous TL, linked to a paddle-controlled five-speed automatic transmission. Mileage is a reasonable 18 mpg city and 26 mpg highway.

For enthusiasts shopping for a performance sedan, Acura offers the SH-AWD, with a 3.7-liter V6 engine with variable valve timing (VTEC) producing a class-leading 305 horsepower and 273 pound-feet of torque. Incidentally, that’s the most powerful engine Acura has ever built.

Power gets to the wheels through a paddle-controlled five-speed automatic transmission and an electronically controlled all-wheel-drive system that can vary torque not only front-to-back but side to side to provide optimum power to each wheel in any type of driving maneuver.

What’s it up against?
Acura set the bar high by seeking to hold on to their existing near-luxury customers while going after the luxury sport sedan customer, compelling the designers and engineers to benchmark the new TL against not only the BMW 3-Series, Mercedes C-Class, Audi A4, Lexus IS/ES, and Infiniti G35, but also the larger 5-Series, E-Class, A6, GS, and M35. That’s a tough crowd to match when you want to stay near the $35,000 average TL purchase price of the previous model.

Nevertheless, the product planners believe they’ve achieved their goal. The qualitative evaluation scales of luxury and performance/emotional appeal that Acura presented show the new TL positioned beyond everything in the performance/luxury sedan category except the Audi A8 and BMW 7-Series.

Any breakthroughs?
When you set out to improve your previous offering and beat all your competitors on every luxury and performance attribute, you’d better come up with some major breakthroughs, and there is enough to talk about in the new SH-AWD, and even in the mainline TL that we’ll have to devote another article to the technology in these new cars.
Briefly, the next big things in both models can be found in the engine room, in the suspension, in the crash zones and in the center console.

Both engines benefit from advanced valve timing technology, which varies not only the intake timing, but also the exhaust timing, to balance acceleration and top speed capability with fuel economy.

To maintain handling confidence without sacrificing ride comfort, the TLs now incorporate a sophisticated multi-valve system in the shock absorbers that provides taut, level handling on tight corners with a softer valving to absorb bumps on straight sections, and improves the speed with which the shocks can respond to changing conditions.

Underneath the skin, Acura has improved the skeleton of the chassis to increase torsional rigidity while increasing crash zone responsiveness, which is earning them vaunted five-star ratings in front, side, and rear collision testing.

On the interior, the console has been redesigned to improve what Acura calls “intuitive technology” while incorporating a variety of standard and optional audio, communication, and navigation capabilities that compares favorably with any other car on the road today.

How does it look?
Acura says it was their intention to design the car to get attention, and they definitely succeeded, since the first views of the new car we showed you inspired heated discussion. This is clearly not the bland previous-generation Japanese styling that tried to appeal to everyone without offending anyone. Acura says their intention is to make sure that, with all the product advances they’re so proud of, the new TL will stand out on the road. To that end, it certainly does.

Their design goals, they say, were to create an impression of linear fluidity by designing smooth lines that flow without interruption from front to rear, and strong presence by using a high, well-defined shoulder line. But the most controversial aspects of the design are the hard, origami-like folded edges along the feature lines, which emanate from the flat, v-shaped surfaces of the signature Acura grille and culminate in a similar v-shaped form at the center rear of the car.

We’d only note that the folded-edge style is not new, having been introduced several years ago by Cadillac, so it isn’t likely to create any serious issues for Acura, except perhaps for some previous TL owners who might resist the idea of change.

With only a few subtle differences, both the base TL and the SH-AWD share the same lines. The only way to tell that the car in your rearview mirror or in front of you is the high-performance version is by the small brake ducts in the front fascia that replace the base car’s narrow driving lights, the dual tips in each of the two tail pipe outlets on the rear, and the tiny set of chrome initials on the trunk lid.

And inside?
On the inside, except for the slightly fatter steering wheel and stitched leather shift knob on the SH-AWD, the trim is identical between the two models. With high-quality materials of soft-touch vinyl and leather trim, accented with an attractive, pleasant-feeling metal composite material, the TL feels upscale and modern. We liked the choice of materials and the workmanship and definitely felt that the composite metal trim was superior to both the brushed aluminum and retro polished wood that are the typical cliches of most luxury car lines.

The front cabin has been sculpted to create two visually separate passenger spaces, divided by an imposing center console.

That console includes both a huge iDrive-style center knob and a huge array of separate buttons, apparently for every single controllable function in the car. About the only thing not on the console was a tape cassette slot, which Acura was still building into its 2008 models.

The center-stack design is perhaps the one feature in the car where Acura gets barely a passing grade in a class where Audi is the curve-breaker, Mercedes gets high marks for trim quality, BMW compromises between high style and convenience, and even Volvo comes through with elegant understatement. We’d like to say that the Acura design was superior to at least one of these competitors, but unfortunately, the best we can say is that the car has more electronic features than the competitors. To their credit, we were able to find many of the features without cracking the owners’ manual in our short few hours in the car.

Acura has excelled in the category of number, size, and placement of stowage spaces, a small, but nevertheless important detail to us, which becomes more significant on the longer journeys for which this car is suited. Neat little iPod and cell phone compartments are situated in the console near the plug-ins, and in the sides of the foot wells, and cup or bottle holders are placed not only in the center console – where they’re usually in the way – but in the door panels as well.

Acura excelled in interior space and comfort with the previous TL, and they’ve raised the bar by adding another inch to rear leg room and a fraction of an inch to rear shoulder room.
Given the comfort and space of the rear seat, we were amazed to find that the trunk is huge as well. We’re perfectly willing to believe that there would be no problem in fitting the four suitcases, or the four golf bags, or the full-sized cooler that the Acura’s press literature promises.

But does it go?
We love any excuse to get out on the two-lane coastal roads north of San Francisco when we’re in any car that promises good handling, so we were pleased to learn that our route would take us from Sausalito along Route 1 to Bodega Bay, where the intricacies of the curves are exceeded only by the breath-taking coastal scenery. After lunch at the north end of the route, we returned to home base through the redwood groves and cattle country just inland of the coastal hills.

For the morning drive, we drew one of the SH-AWD models, which was perfect for the tight curves and unexpected camber changes, and on the return run in the afternoon we settled back and enjoyed the standard TL’s comfort over the often rough, but straighter route. Over the 150 mile drive, we were able to experience the handling and performance features of both versions of the TL.

In the morning, whenever we got some space in traffic, we could enjoy the sensation of taking curves at invigorating speeds. The noteworthy feature of the SH-AWD was how competent it was when responding to an unexpected change in camber or curve radius. With most high-performance cars, even the new M3, when things change unexpectedly, you’ve got to be prepared to drive the car; though they are capable of handling issues that might arise, they don’t actually help the driver. In contrast, the modulated torque to each wheel in the SH-AWD actually pitches in to help you handle anything you encounter.

The other advantage of the SH-AWD is under the hood. Route 1 is notorious for slow sight-seeing traffic and sparse passing zones, so when opportunities did present themselves to make a pass, it was a simple matter to flick the paddle to downshift the car and then go from 40 to passing speed in a very short distance. At that point, the improved brakes were more than capable of slowing the car down to the typical 30-40 mph needed to take the next curve.

Both models share the same five-speed transmission, which sounds as if it wouldn’t match the smoothness of competitors’ six-speed auto boxes, but wider, and more balanced gear ratios probably explain why we found the transmission to be so smooth we could only tell it had shifted by watching the tach.

For those who wonder why Acura isn’t doing a TL Type S in the new line-up, the answer is that the SH-AWD already exceeds the S-Type’s performance in every dimension. (We’re pleased to say that those silly red circles on the dials and fake alloy pedals of the Type S are nowhere to be seen on the new high-performance TL.)

In the afternoon, we pretended we were out just to enjoy the scenery ourselves, and must say that the standard TL was well-suited to that task. Power and handling was more than adequate to handle highway merges as well as grades and descents through the hills.

What was really gratifying was the smoothness of the ride, which we had also noticed in the morning, since the two cars share the same suspension geometry and components. Current TL owners will be more than pleased when they trade in the old TL on this car, and if they comparison shop, they’ll be even happier.

Why you would buy it:
What’s not to like? With a price that’s promised to be between $35,000 and $42,000 (the TL is manufactured in Marysville, Ohio, which Acura doesn’t suffer from the exchange rate fluctuations that are hitting their European competitors hard), delivering a car that outstrips comparably priced cars hands-down in performance, handling, space, and comfort.

Why you wouldn’t:
No one is going to confuse the luxury touches in the cabin with the elegance offered by some competitors, and that excessively busy center stack with its plethora of push buttons just doesn’t say upscale like the rest of the interior does. And some near-luxury buyers have no desire to drive a car that has “look at me” written all over it, no matter how bold a presence it creates.

The TL will be on sale in September, and the SH-AWD on sale in November of this year. Look for official pricing to be released here in the coming weeks.

Words and Photos by Gary and Genie Anderson

dom

Ummm, are there any 5 speeds left in the class?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I also heard people saying how the car would downshift to 2nd gear at highway speeds. Is that due to the 3rd gear issue? I don’t know since I never had any issue with my tranny (touch wood) except for sometimes there are some weird jerking motions (hopefully those are not signs for failure…).
As far as gearing goes my only complaint is the 3rd to 4th gear shift but IMO that’s not a big issue unless you go WOT to 110mph which is not a very smart thing to do anyways on the street….

1killercls

just plain ugly it is.

Moog-Type-S

Good job Acura....this TL really stands out.....that's fur sure.....just like an AMC Pacer and Pantiac Aztek

AsianRage

Yeah.... sounds similar to my car before it had the tranny replaced. From what I've read on this forum, such issues aren't the norm for the 3g's transmission.

Edward'TLS

Yep, occasional jerking motions are the first sign. In my case, the "jerk" happened more and more often, and less than a month later, I had completely lost 3rd gear.

Good luck.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

hmm..it has been doing that for years now actually..couple times a week or so....I mean sometimes I experience that a few times week, sometimes, not even once in a month. Most of the time it happens when I'm going at 60km/h or so in 5th gear, not giving too much gas. It feels like it wants to downshift to 4th but it doesn't.

av6ent

Oh well .... glad I've made the right choice instead waiting for this crap.
Interior is nice, however.

Costco

Nothing really wrong about it, but there's really no advantage for a 5AT over a 6AT besides cost, is there?

335i, nice. What happened to the infamous Dr. Evil transmissions for the 2G TL/CL?