Acura: RLX News
02-03-2008, 12:09 PM
#1321
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by biker
The GS sells just fine for Lexus yet it only has the V8\hybrid option and those hardly sell and is not what brings the people to buy a GS. An RL with a V8 option would do nothing for the overall sales. The all or nothing approach to options hurts more than the lack of a V8. And the styling hurts the most. When is the unveiling?
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
I disagree. Regardless of how few V8 models are sold, I think a V8 is the "halo" that gets the model the attention it needs in the midluxury segment, which in turn brings the car into people's minds when they are start shopping in the midsize luxury market. Most will likely end up buying 6-cylinder versions, but the point of a V8 isn't to sell V8 models, it's to sell more 6-cyl. models.
A V8 alone isn't recipe for success. More aggressive styling alone, or adding more options alone, or more marketing alone, or more value alone, aren't recipes for success either. They have to do all of the above and address all the criticisms of the car to really break out of their rut.
A V8 alone isn't recipe for success. More aggressive styling alone, or adding more options alone, or more marketing alone, or more value alone, aren't recipes for success either. They have to do all of the above and address all the criticisms of the car to really break out of their rut.
02-03-2008, 12:11 PM
#1322
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Trackruner228
Another thing worth mentioning is there position in the chicago auto show. Normally they are right next to honda but this time not only are they right at the entrance according to the map but they are right next to MB and Audi. Hopefully that means they have cars that are good enough to compete.
02-03-2008, 12:22 PM
#1323
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Originally Posted by mrdeeno
I disagree. Regardless of how few V8 models are sold, I think a V8 is the "halo" that gets the model the attention it needs in the midluxury segment, which in turn brings the car into people's minds when they are start shopping in the midsize luxury market. Most will likely end up buying 6-cylinder versions, but the point of a V8 isn't to sell V8 models, it's to sell more 6-cyl. models.
A V8 alone isn't recipe for success. More aggressive styling alone, or adding more options alone, or more marketing alone, or more value alone, aren't recipes for success either. They have to do all of the above and address all the criticisms of the car to really break out of their rut.
A V8 alone isn't recipe for success. More aggressive styling alone, or adding more options alone, or more marketing alone, or more value alone, aren't recipes for success either. They have to do all of the above and address all the criticisms of the car to really break out of their rut.
Give it a V6 and V8 with RWD and then make there SHAWD an option.
02-03-2008, 02:44 PM
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All that’s you guys talking about is nonsense, hp, fwd, awd, rwd doesn’t sell the car, some people will buy them for the special need , but in the wheel real world what really sell the car is the look of the exterior and reliability, cause when you drive your car don’t nobody come up to you ask you about how many hp your car have or ask you if it’s fwd rwd awd im sure they will tell you that’s a nice car, that will put a smile on your face and this is what Acura is lack of in the luxury world, if they can step up they can game in that direction they should be right back up there in the top 3 best selling luxury car in the U.S. has we all know since the legend days the best thing out of Acura is the 2004 TL and MDX.
02-03-2008, 03:32 PM
#1325
Moderator Alumnus
Originally Posted by vishnus11
If only you could read....
Gavril said that he wishes they turbocharge the car ala 335i. While that would be fantastic, it would not be practical ESPECIALLY during a midlife MMC. What WOULD be practical would be installing a 6 or 7spd automatic (that I'm sure the company already has ready) and take advantage of their peakier powerband.
As for the rest of your essay - you think much more power is the solution. I don't - a modest bump in power would be nice but theres no need for a huge V8 with a stonking 500hp. I do agree that more aggressive italianate styling like the RL would definetely help the car.
More power...yep that will fix everything I'm glad folks like you don't run car companies.
Gavril said that he wishes they turbocharge the car ala 335i. While that would be fantastic, it would not be practical ESPECIALLY during a midlife MMC. What WOULD be practical would be installing a 6 or 7spd automatic (that I'm sure the company already has ready) and take advantage of their peakier powerband.
As for the rest of your essay - you think much more power is the solution. I don't - a modest bump in power would be nice but theres no need for a huge V8 with a stonking 500hp. I do agree that more aggressive italianate styling like the RL would definetely help the car.
More power...yep that will fix everything I'm glad folks like you don't run car companies.
I can't read...
Gavriil was simply hinting toward a more powerful engine. I don't think he cared how the engine was built. You read into his post; far beyond his simple hint that he thought it needed more power and since Honda is too stubborn to make a v8... stick turbos on *A* v6... that's all he was getting at. Or perhaps simply said; since you won't build a v8 slap some turbo's on a engine you will make...
You're funny...
Did you see what I put in bold... I didn't say power was the end solution. Nor do I think it fixes anything at this point. The root of the issue is much deeper with Acura and the RL.
I'll quote myself again... I should have changed "them" to "rl"
Hopefully Acura gets the looks right this time; it's the only thing that will save them...
I'm sure everyone will have transmissions with more gears; CVTs seem to be a priority for a lot of manufacturers. But no one I know purchases a car because it has 7 gears vs 6 to make up for it's lack of power. People just don't think that way...
Perhaps you need to requote my whore statement; or in ignorance say I think adding HP alone will sell the car, again...
02-04-2008, 10:54 AM
#1326
Race Director
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
I disagree. Regardless of how few V8 models are sold, I think a V8 is the "halo" that gets the model the attention it needs in the midluxury segment, which in turn brings the car into people's minds when they are start shopping in the midsize luxury market. Most will likely end up buying 6-cylinder versions, but the point of a V8 isn't to sell V8 models, it's to sell more 6-cyl. models.
A V8 alone isn't recipe for success. More aggressive styling alone, or adding more options alone, or more marketing alone, or more value alone, aren't recipes for success either. They have to do all of the above and address all the criticisms of the car to really break out of their rut.
A V8 alone isn't recipe for success. More aggressive styling alone, or adding more options alone, or more marketing alone, or more value alone, aren't recipes for success either. They have to do all of the above and address all the criticisms of the car to really break out of their rut.
Make the RL better looking, lose the required NAV/SHAWD, lower the price to 40K and it would sell also - even without a V8. Honda went for the all or nothing + Audi approach and it didn't work out. It's time to move on - better sheet metal and hopefully better configurations the next time.
02-04-2008, 11:19 AM
#1327
What Would Don Draper Do?
i don't necessarily agree that more power and a V8 will mean more sales.
but i do agree that having an optional engine will help. and i do believe that offering a V8 will, at least, give the impression that honda/acura are willing to change, and that can help alter the perception and image of acura.
but i do agree that having an optional engine will help. and i do believe that offering a V8 will, at least, give the impression that honda/acura are willing to change, and that can help alter the perception and image of acura.
02-04-2008, 11:27 AM
#1328
Fahrvergnügen'd
Originally Posted by JediMindTricks
i don't necessarily agree that more power and a V8 will mean more sales.
but i do agree that having an optional engine will help. and i do believe that offering a V8 will, at least, give the impression that honda/acura are willing to change, and that can help alter the perception and image of acura.
but i do agree that having an optional engine will help. and i do believe that offering a V8 will, at least, give the impression that honda/acura are willing to change, and that can help alter the perception and image of acura.
Hyundai will have a V8 before Acura
02-04-2008, 12:11 PM
#1330
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by biker
So you think the M35 wouldn't sell as well as it does if there was no M45? I don't think so. The M35 sells well, even with "just" an Infiniti badge, because people like the car and the lower levels models can be had for almost 40K.
02-04-2008, 12:13 PM
#1331
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by charliemike
*giggles*
Hyundai will have a V8 before Acura
Hyundai will have a V8 before Acura
02-04-2008, 12:34 PM
#1332
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Originally Posted by biker
So you think the M35 wouldn't sell as well as it does if there was no M45? I don't think so. The M35 sells well, even with "just" an Infiniti badge, because people like the car and the lower levels models can be had for almost 40K.
Make the RL better looking, lose the required NAV/SHAWD, lower the price to 40K and it would sell also - even without a V8. Honda went for the all or nothing + Audi approach and it didn't work out. It's time to move on - better sheet metal and hopefully better configurations the next time.
Make the RL better looking, lose the required NAV/SHAWD, lower the price to 40K and it would sell also - even without a V8. Honda went for the all or nothing + Audi approach and it didn't work out. It's time to move on - better sheet metal and hopefully better configurations the next time.
Magazines and enthusiasts would have ragged on it for lacking a V8 in a segment where a V8 is a necessary option to compete with the established makes, and people would have reacted accordingly and sales would have suffered the same as the RL.
02-04-2008, 02:09 PM
#1333
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Save the date and time
Not to break the conversation, but...
Wednesday, February 6, 2008
10:00 AM, Central Time
Acura is the second to present at the show--right after General Motors.
It better be good. I sure hope they get images posted fast.
Wednesday, February 6, 2008
10:00 AM, Central Time
Acura is the second to present at the show--right after General Motors.
It better be good. I sure hope they get images posted fast.
02-04-2008, 06:49 PM
#1334
^ can't wait!!!
02-04-2008, 07:45 PM
#1336
Some dude
Originally Posted by phile
^ can't wait!!!
+1
02-04-2008, 08:59 PM
#1337
Originally Posted by 04EuroAccordTsx
Oh gosh just watch it will be a disappointment
02-04-2008, 09:20 PM
#1338
Senior Moderator
Personally, I'm hoping that the new car is fugly so the resale value on my RL goes up.
02-04-2008, 11:13 PM
#1339
Some dude
Originally Posted by neuronbob
Personally, I'm hoping that the new car is fugly so the resale value on my RL goes up.
knowing Acura, it just might happen.
02-04-2008, 11:15 PM
#1340
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by neuronbob
Personally, I'm hoping that the new car is fugly so the resale value on my RL goes up.
02-04-2008, 11:45 PM
#1341
Race Director
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
Magazines and enthusiasts would have ragged on it for lacking a V8 in a segment where a V8 is a necessary option to compete with the established makes, and people would have reacted accordingly and sales would have suffered the same as the RL.
The Q45 and Phaeton on paper had all the attributes of the LS, 745, S500, A8 but sold like crap - why: looks and the badge. I say again - a V8 in the RL would not have helped sales.
OTOH - good sheet metal and overall looks and a bit more leeway on configurations could wonders for sales.
02-05-2008, 12:21 AM
#1342
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Originally Posted by vishnus11
Gotta be realistic Gavril...
1. J series motors weren't designed at the outset to be turbocharged.
2. The J series is probably near the end of its lifecycle having first been introduced 11 years ago. Developing a turbocharger for a motor that may not see another 5 years of life, is a colossal waste.
3. More oomph doesn't necessarily have to come from more power. More gears would accomplish the same result and is a far more cost effective solution. A 6 or 7spd auto tranny in this car would give it much needed help, and this tranny could be implemented across the board. A dual-dry clutch system would also be more efficient than a 5sp auto with torque converter, further improving performance and fuel economy. Acura/Honda is a company in search of better fuel economy as well as performance, and more gear ratios allows that.
Just my
1. J series motors weren't designed at the outset to be turbocharged.
2. The J series is probably near the end of its lifecycle having first been introduced 11 years ago. Developing a turbocharger for a motor that may not see another 5 years of life, is a colossal waste.
3. More oomph doesn't necessarily have to come from more power. More gears would accomplish the same result and is a far more cost effective solution. A 6 or 7spd auto tranny in this car would give it much needed help, and this tranny could be implemented across the board. A dual-dry clutch system would also be more efficient than a 5sp auto with torque converter, further improving performance and fuel economy. Acura/Honda is a company in search of better fuel economy as well as performance, and more gear ratios allows that.
Just my
Extra gears will add final torque on the wheels as would a shorter final gear, however you can only do so much by playing with the transmission without changing the torque output of an engine.
02-05-2008, 12:27 AM
#1343
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Originally Posted by SiGGy
You're telling Gavrill to be realistic?
A small bump in HP and a 7 speed transmission. You think that alone will sell the RL? That in no way makes the RL more desirable...
RL needs what the 1st post in this thread from 2006 said. A high powered engine and to look like a luxury vehicle not a worked over Accord. The entire reason it didn't sell is because it's god awful boring and underpowered.
Acura hasn't acted like a luxury brand in years; now it's lost, it's a step in between. So I'd expect another lame v6 with SH-AWD and hopefully a huge body refresh.
If Acura wants to be taken seriously they need to make the RL powerful and NOT boring...
We live in America; home of "quantity over quality" and "brand snobs". The VW phaeton is a perfect example of this. They pulled the car out of the American markets; it sells successfully everywhere else.
Have you honestly thought this through?
A 306hp $50k car? 1st match that comes to mind is the IS350 (which can be had cheaper). The IS350 is now the little brother to the new IS500 (not sure on the name). Acura's flagship will be viewed as equal to Lexus's baby luxury car...
The new TL will be near 300hp; lots of other cars are near 300hp for $30k.
Not even a CVT transmission optimizing use of the engines power better than a 7 speed would take 306hp and make it perform like a 340+hp V8 with lots of torque...
It's ideology like yours that made the current RL a failure... you really don't understand who buys $50k+ cars or what they want.
Your end result is the same whore with new lipstick on... people won't buy it.
Hopefully Acura gets the looks right this time; it's the only thing that will save them... Everyone knows it'll have a V6 with not a lot of HP; Acura is always consistently conservative so I wouldn't expect a high HP engine.
A small bump in HP and a 7 speed transmission. You think that alone will sell the RL? That in no way makes the RL more desirable...
RL needs what the 1st post in this thread from 2006 said. A high powered engine and to look like a luxury vehicle not a worked over Accord. The entire reason it didn't sell is because it's god awful boring and underpowered.
Acura hasn't acted like a luxury brand in years; now it's lost, it's a step in between. So I'd expect another lame v6 with SH-AWD and hopefully a huge body refresh.
If Acura wants to be taken seriously they need to make the RL powerful and NOT boring...
We live in America; home of "quantity over quality" and "brand snobs". The VW phaeton is a perfect example of this. They pulled the car out of the American markets; it sells successfully everywhere else.
Have you honestly thought this through?
A 306hp $50k car? 1st match that comes to mind is the IS350 (which can be had cheaper). The IS350 is now the little brother to the new IS500 (not sure on the name). Acura's flagship will be viewed as equal to Lexus's baby luxury car...
The new TL will be near 300hp; lots of other cars are near 300hp for $30k.
Not even a CVT transmission optimizing use of the engines power better than a 7 speed would take 306hp and make it perform like a 340+hp V8 with lots of torque...
It's ideology like yours that made the current RL a failure... you really don't understand who buys $50k+ cars or what they want.
Your end result is the same whore with new lipstick on... people won't buy it.
Hopefully Acura gets the looks right this time; it's the only thing that will save them... Everyone knows it'll have a V6 with not a lot of HP; Acura is always consistently conservative so I wouldn't expect a high HP engine.
And yes, the styling was one of the main reasons this car failed in its sales figures.
But I am under the impression one can have an RL right now and since the beginning for a little over 40K. Dealers were giving them away since the beginning. No one wanted them. My ex boss got one, three months after it came out for 42K with Navi.
You're right about the conservative rating most probably. It's probably going to be slightly over 300HP. And I agree about the lipstick comment.
However, because this car comes with AWD only, it's begging for more torque. Like most Audis do.
02-05-2008, 12:28 AM
#1344
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Originally Posted by derrick
The bigwigs in Japan have to figure out how to undo all their unwise decision making the past 10 years after doing away with the "Legend" marque and the greatness with those cars.
02-05-2008, 12:30 AM
#1345
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Originally Posted by SiGGy
Current RL and TL interior look fantastic in my book.
Acura needs to work on their quality issues though. TLs tend to rattle; dashboards fade and leather wears quickly...
I still remember the first time I sat in an RL at the Chicago Auto Show. I was blown away. And I was also impressed by the build quality of the RL. It still is top notch on both.
I had no idea that the TLs had issues.
02-05-2008, 12:33 AM
#1346
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i think a full size sedan would help the RL sales. skip the V8 on the RL and put it into a true flagship full size sedan. The true flagship would be a halo car to the RL. A true flagship would create the much needed buzz for Acura. And for those that cant afford the flagship they have the next best thing....the RL
02-05-2008, 12:37 AM
#1347
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Originally Posted by vishnus11
If only you could read....
Gavril said that he wishes they turbocharge the car ala 335i. While that would be fantastic, it would not be practical ESPECIALLY during a midlife MMC. What WOULD be practical would be installing a 6 or 7spd automatic (that I'm sure the company already has ready) and take advantage of their peakier powerband.
As for the rest of your essay - you think much more power is the solution. I don't - a modest bump in power would be nice but theres no need for a huge V8 with a stonking 500hp. I do agree that more aggressive italianate styling like the RL would definetely help the car.
More power...yep that will fix everything I'm glad folks like you don't run car companies.
Gavril said that he wishes they turbocharge the car ala 335i. While that would be fantastic, it would not be practical ESPECIALLY during a midlife MMC. What WOULD be practical would be installing a 6 or 7spd automatic (that I'm sure the company already has ready) and take advantage of their peakier powerband.
As for the rest of your essay - you think much more power is the solution. I don't - a modest bump in power would be nice but theres no need for a huge V8 with a stonking 500hp. I do agree that more aggressive italianate styling like the RL would definetely help the car.
More power...yep that will fix everything I'm glad folks like you don't run car companies.
Now talking about the new tranny. I am sure everyone will agree that Acura is behind on the transmission department. No doubt. A 5 speed is ridiculous when VW just introduced a 7 speed DSG which will be installed on their 120HP Golf and other models. No argument there. But a tranny would not be enough. IN this competitive environment you have to be bringing something new constantly and it has to be top notch.
For example the new M3. They come out with the car, but the new dual clutch tranny will come out next year. Makes sense. But when it comes out, you know it will blow everyone away, or it will be par with the best.
So the RL has the wrong styling, the wrong engine, the wrong tranny and even the wrong nameplate. Acura. Sometimes just one thing going wrong with a car is enough for it not to sell well. Acura needs to fix a number of things. And we are wondering why it's not selling...
02-05-2008, 12:50 AM
#1348
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Guys, it's not cost efficient for Acura to make a V8 just for the RL. It makes no sense financially. A year or two ago there were rumors for a V8 from Acura, but one that would be used in Honda's trucks and so Acura could borrow. It takes many many monies to develop a new engine. The only way to recover the development and certification cost is to allocate the engine to many many well selling models.
In addition to the above, the V8 engine as we know it will decrease in popularity in America as many of you know because of the new CAFE laws. Here Ford and GM are abanding V8 programs left and right and putting their money on turbo 4 and 6 cylinder engines, why are we even talking about a V8 Acura? Acura did not use a V8 when everyone did, why would they do it now?
In addition to the above, the V8 engine as we know it will decrease in popularity in America as many of you know because of the new CAFE laws. Here Ford and GM are abanding V8 programs left and right and putting their money on turbo 4 and 6 cylinder engines, why are we even talking about a V8 Acura? Acura did not use a V8 when everyone did, why would they do it now?
02-05-2008, 08:05 AM
#1349
Moderator Alumnus
Originally Posted by charliemike
*giggles*
Hyundai will have a V8 before Acura
Hyundai will have a V8 before Acura
Hyundai will soon surpass Honda... if Honda doesn't get on the ball.... soon!
02-05-2008, 09:10 AM
#1350
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Originally Posted by biker
Ahhh...... there's the rub - those are not the folks that would make up the bulk of the sales volume. Magazines and enthusiast make up a small minority of the buying public. The car has to appeal to average well-off Joe - and he doesn't care if the car he's not buying has a V8.
The Q45 and Phaeton on paper had all the attributes of the LS, 745, S500, A8 but sold like crap - why: looks and the badge. I say again - a V8 in the RL would not have helped sales.
OTOH - good sheet metal and overall looks and a bit more leeway on configurations could wonders for sales.
The Q45 and Phaeton on paper had all the attributes of the LS, 745, S500, A8 but sold like crap - why: looks and the badge. I say again - a V8 in the RL would not have helped sales.
OTOH - good sheet metal and overall looks and a bit more leeway on configurations could wonders for sales.
Therefore I disagree with your assessment about the lack of a V8. Enthusiasts are MORE LIKELY to buy a car that does not offer a V8 than "regular" folks. The RL without a V8 option is more popular to enthusiasts than it is to regular folks, because enthusiasts care more about a cars inherent qualities than its "image".
So again, yes, a V8 (among several other things) would help sales of 6-cylinder models, ESPECIALLY among the "regular" folks forking out $50k on a car.
Last edited by mrdeeno; 02-05-2008 at 09:14 AM.
02-05-2008, 10:24 AM
#1351
Senior Moderator
^ I still disagree with that.
Almost all "regular" folks i talk to want a car with good gas mileage. They all stay away from V8s for that reason alone, even in the $50k range.
Hell I would bet most people dont even know the car they are driving has a V8 option.
Anyways like Gav said, its pointless to even talk about a V8 since most manufacturings are going towards different routes for fuel economy.
Almost all "regular" folks i talk to want a car with good gas mileage. They all stay away from V8s for that reason alone, even in the $50k range.
Hell I would bet most people dont even know the car they are driving has a V8 option.
Anyways like Gav said, its pointless to even talk about a V8 since most manufacturings are going towards different routes for fuel economy.
02-05-2008, 10:54 AM
#1352
Originally Posted by 04EuroAccordTsx
Oh gosh just watch it will be a disappointment
Originally Posted by Crazy Sellout
^ I still disagree with that.
Almost all "regular" folks i talk to want a car with good gas mileage. They all stay away from V8s for that reason alone, even in the $50k range.
Hell I would bet most people dont even know the car they are driving has a V8 option.
Anyways like Gav said, its pointless to even talk about a V8 since most manufacturings are going towards different routes for fuel economy.
Almost all "regular" folks i talk to want a car with good gas mileage. They all stay away from V8s for that reason alone, even in the $50k range.
Hell I would bet most people dont even know the car they are driving has a V8 option.
Anyways like Gav said, its pointless to even talk about a V8 since most manufacturings are going towards different routes for fuel economy.
I've realized this, despite them spying on us and seeing what we (the enthusiasts) want, they realize that we are a small segment of the market. Meh... they can have a great turbo-4 or turbo-6 but if they put it in the wrong car (cough, RDX) then its not going to win anyone over. I doubt any of the current Acuras will get lighter/smaller or have RWD, so I doubt I'll ever own a new Acura for a long time.
If anything, they'll implement our ideas in their cars, aside from the V8/RWD desires. Best example I know is the 3G TL-S.... right after the TL-S was exposed, some 3G TL owners took note of how it reminded them of their car (blacked out tails, aluminum pedals and door sills, etc)
02-05-2008, 11:16 AM
#1353
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Originally Posted by Crazy Sellout
^ I still disagree with that.
Almost all "regular" folks i talk to want a car with good gas mileage. They all stay away from V8s for that reason alone, even in the $50k range.
Hell I would bet most people dont even know the car they are driving has a V8 option.
Anyways like Gav said, its pointless to even talk about a V8 since most manufacturings are going towards different routes for fuel economy.
Almost all "regular" folks i talk to want a car with good gas mileage. They all stay away from V8s for that reason alone, even in the $50k range.
Hell I would bet most people dont even know the car they are driving has a V8 option.
Anyways like Gav said, its pointless to even talk about a V8 since most manufacturings are going towards different routes for fuel economy.
Let me lay it out so a 5th grader can understand.
1. A v8 model is the halo that gives a mid-luxury sedan a certain image.
2. That certain image attracts "regular folks" since they don't know much about cars but know more about image.
3. The regular folks end up buying the 6-cylinder versions of that model because of the "image" associated with that model, but also because of better value of the V6 models.
More value, or gas mileage, or whatever else without the image won't do it (see RL as an example). And a V8 is part of that "image" that the RL is missing.
Like I said earlier, a V8 doesn't add more sales be selling V8 models, it adds more sales by selling more V6 models.
02-05-2008, 11:30 AM
#1354
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
Like I said earlier, a V8 doesn't add more sales be selling V8 models, it adds more sales by selling more V6 models.
I'm sure that Fords sells tons more v6 mustangs than the v8 mustang gt. But it's the GT, Shelby, etc etc that get them in the show room...
Same will happen with the BMW 1-series... People are excited by the 135, but I'm sure they'll sell more of the cheaper 128.
It would be nice to see acura going back to offering multiple engine choices in their cars like in the 1st gen CL and TL.
02-05-2008, 11:50 AM
#1355
Originally Posted by Crazy Sellout
^ I still disagree with that.
Almost all "regular" folks i talk to want a car with good gas mileage. They all stay away from V8s for that reason alone, even in the $50k range.
Hell I would bet most people dont even know the car they are driving has a V8 option.
Anyways like Gav said, its pointless to even talk about a V8 since most manufacturings are going towards different routes for fuel economy.
Almost all "regular" folks i talk to want a car with good gas mileage. They all stay away from V8s for that reason alone, even in the $50k range.
Hell I would bet most people dont even know the car they are driving has a V8 option.
Anyways like Gav said, its pointless to even talk about a V8 since most manufacturings are going towards different routes for fuel economy.
http://biz.yahoo.com/cnnm/080130/012...e_v6.html?.v=2
02-05-2008, 12:01 PM
#1356
Race Director
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
1. A v8 model is the halo that gives a mid-luxury sedan a certain image.
2. That certain image attracts "regular folks" since they don't know much about cars but know more about image.
3. The regular folks end up buying the 6-cylinder versions of that model because of the "image" associated with that model, but also because of better value of the V6 models.
More value, or gas mileage, or whatever else without the image won't do it (see RL as an example). And a V8 is part of that "image" that the RL is missing.
Like I said earlier, a V8 doesn't add more sales be selling V8 models, it adds more sales by selling more V6 models.
2. That certain image attracts "regular folks" since they don't know much about cars but know more about image.
3. The regular folks end up buying the 6-cylinder versions of that model because of the "image" associated with that model, but also because of better value of the V6 models.
More value, or gas mileage, or whatever else without the image won't do it (see RL as an example). And a V8 is part of that "image" that the RL is missing.
Like I said earlier, a V8 doesn't add more sales be selling V8 models, it adds more sales by selling more V6 models.
Let's say the unveiled model doubles the sales without any other major changes besides sheet metal? What would your explanation for the sales increase be?
Last edited by biker; 02-05-2008 at 12:04 PM.
02-05-2008, 12:04 PM
#1357
Fahrvergnügen'd
Originally Posted by biker
Let's say the unveiled model doubles the sales without any other major changes besides sheet metal? What would your explanation for the sales increase be?
02-05-2008, 12:25 PM
#1358
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
You completely missed my point. Where did I say the "regular" folks would buy the V8 models?
Lets use my parents for example. My mom has no idea her car is a 4banger (tsx). All she knows is that she likes the styling and features of it. My dad didnt even know his RL was fwd till I told him. He just liked the styling and the luxury offerings in the car.
Most of their friends are the same way who all own Benz, BMWs, Lexus, etc... they have no clue about any type of halo car. They sure as hell didnt go to the dealer knowing there were V8 models.
I get what you are trying to say but i personally think people like US are a minority when car shopping. We are the type of guys who like to read magazines that praise cars, then we actually go out and check them out. Now if a magazine says the RL needs a V8 then we automatically we assume it needs it, why..because those magazines are directed at people who are into cars. IMO
I just dont think the general population think like we do.
Dont remind me about 5th grade, i did poorly then.
02-05-2008, 12:58 PM
#1359
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by GreenMonster
Yep... exactly...
I'm sure that Fords sells tons more v6 mustangs than the v8 mustang gt. But it's the GT, Shelby, etc etc that get them in the show room...
Same will happen with the BMW 1-series... People are excited by the 135, but I'm sure they'll sell more of the cheaper 128.
It would be nice to see acura going back to offering multiple engine choices in their cars like in the 1st gen CL and TL.
I'm sure that Fords sells tons more v6 mustangs than the v8 mustang gt. But it's the GT, Shelby, etc etc that get them in the show room...
Same will happen with the BMW 1-series... People are excited by the 135, but I'm sure they'll sell more of the cheaper 128.
It would be nice to see acura going back to offering multiple engine choices in their cars like in the 1st gen CL and TL.
02-05-2008, 02:10 PM
#1360
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Lower Nazzie, Pa
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Originally Posted by biker
Do you think that Honda is run by idiots and they didn't think this through?
Considering how well the RL has done and is currently doing, not to mention their constant flip-flopping of the NSX, do you really have to ask?
They are idiots when it comes to the midluxury segment, that much is OBVIOUSLY clear. And it is obvious they didn't think it through when they attempted to compete without a V8 in a segment where all the competition has V8 engine options.
Last edited by mrdeeno; 02-05-2008 at 02:13 PM.