loki

S4 ugly? It's a timeless design, going back 40 years and each generation is a native upgrade and natural upgrade over previous gen. TLX changes segments and complete design every year, including it's name. S4 will still look good in 30 years (ref. 1991 Audi 80) while TLX will long be forgotten, maybe even the entire company.

Honda430

What are you smoking. The A4 is a undistinguished box and always has been. Timeless design? How is that possible for a car that essentially disappears from the road by the time it reaches 5 years old?

loki

BEAR-AvHistory

Agree. Cars that evolve their design don't screw their customers by making their car obsolete 2 days after they bought it when a generation changes. If its a 2004 330 or a 2022 330 a single glance will say they are both BMW's without having to look for the badge. Acura on the other hand has not built any kind of family look. There is no design connection among Gen 2, 3, 4 or 5 (TLX-1). Like the US cars in the 1950's

sombasol

ive always liked the design of the s4 in a muted kind of way until the newest headlight redesign. It looks totally forced. It works on the S5 but they just look like theyre too much on the s4. Previous sharp lines just fit better

Honda430

BMW and Audi don’t have to worry about the design making their cars obsolete. The upkeep on the mechanicals accomplishes that very well.

pyrodan007

Acura made the Type-S mechanically obsolete from day one, on a new engine. Takes talent. Being Acura, no changes for 3 years minimum.

Honda430

That’s speculation and wishful thinking where what I stated is a known truth.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

You sound pretty upset and have to defend Acura and or your purchase, why is that?

You also sound pretty confident that Acura has solid reliability and won't cost much to keep up with maintenance. I can give you a taste of the future. The TLX-S will require more $$$ to maintain vs the base model. The double wish bone suspension will eventually come at a hefty cost to repair. Ask most of the broke boys who cry that maintaining a 3rd gen is "too expensive" because of such things like lower control arm bushings, ball joints, upper control arms ect.

The 3.0T is an ass backwards design which also uses a timing belt unlike the 2.0T which is chain driven. Wait til the top mounted turbo is given some years especially those that live in 4 season states and under hood hoses ect start to deteriorate. How about those brembo brakes? It will sure as hell cost more to replace vs the base trim. How about the adaptive suspension? They aren't cheap to replace. Remember when the 2nd gen MDX had them? They failed often and cost a nice coin per strut. Tires will cost more to replace as well especially on the 20 inch setup. A lot of new technology on a vehicle that hasn't been long term tested. Did anyone think the best selling Acura, the 3rd gen TL will suffer from dashboard cracks? no, nobody did. But guess what, long a very long period of time ownership (long term) the ugly started to show. This is for many other vehicles as well... so don't think i'm pointing my finger at Acura only.

For the last several years Acura hasn't had the most stellar track record in reliability. Many suffering from transmission issues to burning oil and needing new engines. Don't get me started on the crap I repaired while working for Acura. The Germans have come a very long way from where they once were and are making reliable vehicles. Prime example, if BMW's B48 / B58 engine and transmission wasn't "Realiable" then why did Toyota use it for the Supra? Because Toyota tore it apart and tested every single part to see if it meets of exceeds their quality standards and what they found was that it exceeded their standards.. It's easy to pull out the good ole "well it will be more reliable than the Germans" because it's a bs statement and purely your opinion as is your opinion on what looks good or not.. I'm sorry that facts hurt, no need to be upset over it. It is what it is right? As long as you're happy with your TLX then nothing else matters. I really and truly hope you are trouble free for however long you decide to keep your TLX, other wise you will be really upset for making such statements.

pyrodan007

Feel free to check the B9 A/S/4/5 forums, not as catastrophic as you think for cars out for 4+ years. So far, zero data for the Type-S. Known truth with facts.

Performance wise, mechanically it's already a no-show and old.

Honda430

I’m sitting here chuckling. No where near upset. I’ve driven Acuras since I purchased my 2001 TL new. I’m fully aware of the failures of the TLX-1. I owned two. What I’m tired of is folks talking shit like their fave brand is perfect. No car is perfect. They all are imperfect in one way or another. I’ve noticed posters can dump on the TLX-2 all they want here. Yet bad mouth their fave and suddenly they loose their shit. Dish, but can’t take. By the way I owned a 2006 Aspec for 8 years best car I ever had. The dash assembly on those cars was misaligned from the start. Not surprised if they cracked after 10 years. It’s just amazing that so many of them are still on the road today.

By the way, please go back and parse my post. I said nothing about unreliability. I said cost of mechanical upkeep. You chose to cite unreliability not I.

Ghostof TypeS Past

Also, this is the TLX Type S discussion. As I said in my lease thread - this is the top of the line performance trim level.. the Type S. Any of the cars being compared above are lower trim than their $70k performance versions… I priced out the cars mentioned here and it’s not apples to apples when you look at a $53k Japanese performance car. Did you know you can get a scat pack challenger for about the same price as this with better on paper performance? Probably not because this is an Acura thread…

Nexx

I hear what you're saying but let me fill you in on the flip side. I guess I can get onboard with German powertrains being more reliable these days but keep in mind the electricals are still a huge issue. For example, my wife drives a 2017 Audi Q7. Just recently it started giving us a "left front side marker" error. The side marker works just fine but it freaking annoying that it gives us that error every time we start it up. Apparently you cant replace the side marker bulb you have to replace the headlight. Seems ridiculous but it's true. In order to replace the headlight, you have remove the bumper and then get the camera and sensors recalibrated. Total cost of replacing this headlight... $3200! And also, not complaining because I knew what I was getting into buying an Audi 3.0T engine but it burns 1L of oil every 1,500 miles or so. Let's not make it seem like German vehicles are reliable cause they aren't. They push the boundaries of performance and tech. With that you will run into issues frequently. That's why they are so fun to drive and a nightmare to own. Oh, my E39 M5 drinks oil like its Happy Hour but I love the damn thing, lol.

DubPK

That's pretty awful. I thought they addressed most of the oil consumption issues back in like 2014.

Nexx

It's still a thing. When you bring it up with a service advisor they will tell you it's normal and happily top off it for you.

pyrodan007

Oh really, thank God Acura did not do the same thing with the 2015 TLXs and their wonderfully tuned 9sp, or the 3.7L TLs and their oil frugalness. Some of you are making it sound like Acura never had one single issue, 10 years of flawlessness. Not saying Germans got to a flawless state, but come on. Honda is the king of saying "it's normal".

From the Type-S' performance, we can also see why things MAY not break ... it's not really pushing any oh my God metrics either.

sombasol

Ive owned 6 honda/acura products with literally no large issues. I had a coil pack go on my odyssey once. Thats literally the extent of it. Just general maintenance besides that. I decided to try a VW GLI in 2013 because i wanted something like a civic SI that my wife could also drive (no standard transmission). In my 3 years of ownership of the GLI the moon roof stuck open, the gas tank door stuck closed, the wiper motor died in a rain storm, the inside of the rear rotors rusted out after 18,000km, the drl’s burnt out yearly, the starter motor gave out leaving me stranded (not covered by warrenty because its wear and tear at 28,000km) and finally the balance shaft siezed locking the motor taking it out of service for 2 weeks. I sold the car at 37,000km and promised myself id never buy a german car again. I realize that i shouldnt be painting every german car company with the same brush due to my poor experience with one car, but its not like theres no history to back up my beliefs. Call me crazy but if im sinking this kind of money in to a vehicle, and this is the most expensive car i have ever purchased, i want to be confident that im making a reliable choice. Its clear its not the fastest in its class, but that doesnt mean it isnt a fast fun car that a significant number of people on here are going to really enjoy. Honda/Acura has not competed in this segment… ever really. The 07 type S was a nice car but really its only 28hp more then the base model. Acura is finally giving you an option, for the first time, to purchase a car like this, and im glad they are.

The same 3-5 people keep dragging this car through the shit because they are happy with their bmw’s and audis. Thats great. Fantastic. Enjoy your cars. Its frustrating to see every post on this forum become a “heres the stats on my bmw” thread. Maybe you could start a new thread called “heres the stats on my bmw” and just post them over and over again then you would be able to get it off your chest without derailing every other thread. I think the majority of people are fully aware that an m340i is a lot quicker and yet are still not interested in buying that car.

The price of the car is lower then the competition. The same people getting pissed about adm making it the same price as the other cars in the class are being ridiculous. If you dont want to pay the adm then go to one of the many dealers that arent charging it. If theres no dealers that arent charging it in your area then wait. Or if youre legitimately interested in buying one leave the dealer your name and say call me when theres no adm. i bet you get a call back in a week or two. A dealer can ask whatever it wants, that doesnt mean its set in stone. If they find one sucker to pay $10,000 adm that is a huge win for them. Its a terrible time as a consumer to buy a vehicle, and your looking at a vehicle that has significant demand, and limited supply for This model year. When supply and demand start equalling out the adm goes away. Its that simple. When adm does go away or even at MSRP its significantly less then the competition, and thats a big deal to a person who is stretching their budget to get to this type of vehicle.

there are a lot of positives to this car, even if its not the world beater that we all had hoped for.

BEAR-AvHistory

Consumer Reports' Top 15 Brands for 2021: Overall Scores Out of 100 points

Reliable Brands for 2021

• Mazda: 80
  
• BMW: 78
  
• Subaru: 76
  
• Porsche: 76
  
• Honda: 75
  
• Lexus: 75
  
• Toyota: 74
  
• Chrysler: 74
  
• Buick: 72
  
• Hyundai: 71
  
• Audi: 71
  
• Infiniti: 70
  
• Nissan: 68
  
• Dodge: 67
  
• Genesis: 66
  

Consumer Reports Least Reliable Brands for 2021: Overall Scores

• Acura: 59
  
• Chevrolet: 58
  
• Ford: 57
  
• GMC: 57
  
• Jaguar:54
  
• Lincoln: 53
  
• Jeep: 48
  
• Mitsubishi: 46
  
• Land Rover: 46
  
• Alfa Romeo: 44
  

bilirubin

But IIRC, Acura got dinged for infotainment issues like Apple Carplay connectivity, not mechanical problems.

loki

Does it really matter? What difference does it make if both create down time and you have to take it in and lose half a day to a day.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

He never worked for Acura so he wouldn't know but he will keep telling you other wise because the defenders still need to support their brand

Legend2TL

Huge difference, a failed infotainment won't leave you on the side of the road as compared to a failed drivetrain issue.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

I agree with you. Every vehicle will suffer from some type of failure. When I had my 2006 ML350, it was production number 980 (vin). It was the early birds of the W166. Unfortunately, I owned the 1st 1000 produced and had inherited every single common failure. I sold the vehicle before it had suffered the balance shaft issue. The timing marks on the cams were starting to fall out of sync, so it was time to let it go. As much as I wanted another Mercedes, I couldn't go through it again with the hefty repairs. As for my two 2018-2019 X3's they have been solid. My M40i has been problem free other than one headlight having condensation (common issue) and was covered under warranty. As far as my 2018 X3, it's suffered a few more common issues like the active shutters in the grille failed, digital cluster needed replacement and my SOS system shorted out. As you said, mostly electrical failures, nothing mechanical. The biggest issue I have with BMW, is every single time they replace one of these electronic parts, the vehicle needs to be reprogrammed. So I always lose my reflash performance tune and coding work. Of course I have to deal with the service advisor calling me and saying "we noticed the DME has been tampered with..." (because of the tune and coding). I play stupid and say "I bought it used, no idea"

F23A4

Amen! I’m currently on a road trip that’s taking me through the desert environments of Utah, Arizona and New Mexico. I would certainly prefer to have CarPlay issues than to have my engine or tranny crapout in these locations.

Legend2TL

^ love the Forrest Gump sign
Enjoy your vacation!

Kense

if that were the case the ratings would be different. The only people Insee stranded these days are with Range Rovers

loki

If your digital dash fails and you got nothing, you're 99% pulling over and getting a tow. And failed drivetrain issue is an overstatement. It's been probably 15 years since I saw a VW on the side of the road with the hood propped open.

@F23A4 How many VWs did you see on the side of the desert road?

jhb31

I lost all faith in consumer reports in the last few years. I know a lot of people with both acura and honda's who have no issues at all and on top of that they cost a fraction to maintain compared to some of those highly rated cars. Most cars in general have gotten pretty reliable outside of a few outliers but when CR has Acura barely above a range rover in reliability I toss out their report as unreliable.

loki

Everyone makes good cars nowadays. The process has become so automated and so streamlined that it's not that hard for OEMs to maintain reliability. Toyota for example uses same TNGA platform for Corolla, Camry, Sienna, Rav4, Yaris, Prius, Highlander, Avalon, bunch of Lexus models, etc.

F23A4

counted two VWs that I noticed….to be candid, both along desolate prairies roads and not desert roads.

vhtran

LOL...from performance to reliability now? What's next?

Honda430

jhb31

There will probably something although I think the horse has been beaten dead multiple times on everything at this point. The only thing left is when they will have enough stock and start selling for msrp or less.

I still think it's a decent car overall and for someone staying in the Acura family a good choice over the 4cyl.

fiatlux

I'm guessing crash tests results will be the next thing fanboys will fawn over, which, to be fair, I expect to be better than the competition thanks to its increased size and mass.

vhtran

Agreed, it is still a decent-to-nice car depends on who gets it. I also agreed that it is handsome and safe car. It just happens to fall short since it is supposed to be a comeback based on the price, let alone the ADM.

BEAR-AvHistory

Hey I just posted the list & had nothing to do with creating it. Lots of people bitch about the how its done WHEN their brand falls but like it when their brand is near the top, human nature.

My point is most people in the US know you push the button to start the car. They look to these survey companies to tell the what to buy. Its a big deal inside the marketing departments when a car tanks in the CR ratings.

What I will say is I got a new 6MT on a TSB from Acura for my TL @ 23,000 miles.

Legend2TL

FIFY perhaps for you it'd be a no go for driving but driving without instrument cluster for a car is not a big deal for me.

Really the last time you saw a car with it's hood propped up was ~15 years ago?

In terms of seeing vehicles with the hoods propped open, typically I see a car (all kinds as well many with a plastic bag or cloth in the window) broken down on the side of the road every week or two without a visible flat tire. So it's not a overstatement where I live midway between DC and Baltimore.

pyrodan007

Agreed. Acura versus Acura, the Type-S is a success since it improved on the old TL in multiple ways. But when Acura consistently uses comparisons in it's marketing, well something is not lining up. They mentioned the S4, now they're reaping what they sowed on social media. To think they had to add ADM is salt to the wound. Everything is lining up against the Type-S right now, thanks to Acura's big mouth.

I really think if availably was not a problem, MSRP would have been fine, more or less. But Acura included the S4 and cut features, you can't assume non-performance customers are idiots when seeing the drag race. They should have never mentioned the S4 or brought it to the grand reveal. Compare it to a pristine TL Type-S, would have made many fans happy.

Nexx

Thats hilarious because I used my obdeleven to code out our Q7's "sidemarker" error

loki

Ahhhh ... Ok ... I didn't say last time I saw a car, I said last time I saw THE car (VW). And that comment about not being able to drive car without infotainment system.... I've driven cars you couldn't fathom how rudimentary were, cars without single electrical component working, nothing, not one. I would love to get into this debate with you. But I'm not going to.