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Thx for posting that, kinda shows for rolling start the Type-S is in the middle or slightly slower than some of the comparable cars.
FWIW, the current C43 is 5.1 sec 5-60MPH Now let's compare the Type S to select rivals...
I don't think this list is such a good plan in supporting the Type-S 5-60 performance. It seems to suggest that the car is dead last among current models & looks comparable, third place, to cars some of which came out 5/6 years ago & are no longer in production.
Current Cars: 4.7s BMW M340i 4.9s Volvo S60 T8 5.0s Infiniti Q50 Red Sport
5.1 MB C43 5.3s Audi S4, Kia Stinger GT
Prior Generation cars:
5.2 Genesis G70 2019 5.4s Mercedes C450 AMG (pre-refresh) 2016 5.5s TLX Type S, Cadillac CT5-V RWD, Porsche Panamera 3.0T (just for s**ts and giggles) 5.6s BMW 435i Gran Coupe (prior gen) 2015 5.8s Audi S5 Sportback, BMW 340i (prior gen) 2015 6.0s Lexus IS350 F-sport
Nobody here cares about the numbers & yet y'all keep throwing up the numbers. Its a VERY NICE CAR, but the numbers do not come anywhere near backing Acura's overall marketing plan based on competitive performance with the current sports sedans.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 07-15-2021 at 12:44 PM.
FIFY, not everyone is ranting and raving about Type-S like some of you do.
AoA, Matt Moran's and SG YouTube reviews gave alot of excellent complements to it's handling, a little slow and missing some tech but overall a good to very good mid-size sport sedan. But not continuously hating like a few on these threads.
In terms of Acura reading what's on AZ, perhaps but probably not giving too much creed to it one way or the other since there are alot of hyperbole statements and since sales are the bottom line factor in success for a product.
But why miss some of the basic things that could have made this car class leading and a signature car for Acura? I don't view it as ranting, rather just stating an obvious fact that the Type-S misses the mark in many areas, and I fail to understand why Honda/Acura continue to disappoint. The NSX is case in point. They could have churned out an incredible V-8, instead they backed down along the way opting for a Cosworth 6 with some electric motors, but I digress. As you note sales numbers will do the talking, take a look at US inventories of the Type-S. The past 3 days they've continued to tick up, that's more and more Type-S's sitting on dealer lots at insane markups. Sadly there is very little that is special about this car...
But why miss some of the basic things that could have made this car class leading and a signature car for Acura? I don't view it as ranting, rather just stating an obvious fact that the Type-S misses the mark in many areas, and I fail to understand why Honda/Acura continue to disappoint. The NSX is case in point. They could have churned out an incredible V-8, instead they backed down along the way opting for a Cosworth 6 with some electric motors, but I digress. As you note sales numbers will do the talking, take a look at US inventories of the Type-S. The past 3 days they've continued to tick up, that's more and more Type-S's sitting on dealer lots at insane markups. Sadly there is very little that is special about this car...
Where do you have this inventory info from? Using the Acura website there are exactly grand total of 2 within 250 miles of me. That includes Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, and Indianapolis metro areas and a shitload of Acura dealers...
Here in So Cal we have 20 Type S units between 18 Acura dealers. The funny thing is that as a group those dealers only have 12 T-4 SHAWD Aspecs and 15 FWD Aspecs. Might be why they want to squeeze added profit out of the Type S.
Here in So Cal we have 20 Type S units between 18 Acura dealers. The funny thing is that as a group those dealers only have 12 T-4 SHAWD Aspecs and 15 FWD Aspecs. Might be why they want to squeeze added profit out of the Type S.
Where do you have this inventory info from? Using the Acura website there are exactly grand total of 2 within 250 miles of me. That includes Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, and Indianapolis metro areas and a shitload of Acura dealers...
And now it’s one less since I have the southern Ohio car.
That delay the first time he punches it is pretty bad. And then again when the vehicle forces him to start in 2nd and refuses to let him go into 1st from a rolling start confirms that there is something that Acura is trying to protect that isn't up to the task of taking hard launches. I do believe that this thing is not going to do well with added power. They claim to have beefed up the transmission, but give next to no details of what they actually did. My assumption ... they did what they could with what packaging they could work with within the confines of Honda engineering, but there isn't a lot they could do. Time will tell when tuners get their hands on these things. I can't wait until Hondata cracks this thing open and we can hopefully see what the powertrain is truly capable of ... or maybe not capable of ...
I agree with Matt tho that I thought the car was quite comfortable over rough pavement. I don't know why C&D had a problem with it.
That delay the first time he punches it is pretty bad. And then again when the vehicle forces him to start in 2nd and refuses to let him go into 1st from a rolling start confirms that there is something that Acura is trying to protect that isn't up to the task of taking hard launches. I do believe that this thing is not going to do well with added power. They claim to have beefed up the transmission, but give next to no details of what they actually did. My assumption ... they did what they could with what packaging they could work with within the confines of Honda engineering, but there isn't a lot they could do. Time will tell when tuners get their hands on these things. I can't wait until Hondata cracks this thing open and we can hopefully see what the powertrain is truly capable of ... or maybe not capable of ...
I agree with Matt tho that I thought the car was quite comfortable over rough pavement. I don't know why C&D had a problem with it.
He was rolling already and tyranny up shifted hence the delay when he punched it. I guess it's just the timing. Yes, tyranny can be clunky at times.
It’s beefed up. For anyone that doesn’t own a Type S: quit talking about it and buy one.
Because Acura's marketing has been truthful and on point thus far ...
And personally, it's foolhardy to jump into the Type-S without knowing what the IS500, which is set to be released in a few months, is going to be all about.
It’s beefed up. For anyone that doesn’t own a Type S: quit talking about it and buy one.
What does that mean exactly? It sounds like they are saying something but they really aren't. Thing is Hondas history with transmission both AT & MT sucks. I would want the torque rating of a 4 cylinder unit & the torque rating of a 6 cylinder unit. Also what specifically did they do to increase the torque capacity? Saying is beefed up is just a puff statement.
They "beefed up" body rigidity for the 6 from the 4 by bolting in a K member. Other manufactures build a box around the outside of that entire section. Lots of ways to beef stuff. In my TL MT Honda put a very slow acting pressure relief valve in the hydraulic clutch operating assembly to slow clutch engagement but were still losing transmissions, like mine.
A lot of guys were frustrated by it & removed it....Removal instructions are in the 3G forum.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 07-15-2021 at 09:22 PM.
What does that mean exactly? It sounds like they are saying something but they really aren't. Thing is Hondas history with transmission both AT & MT sucks. I would want the torque rating of a 4 cylinder unit & the torque rating of a 6 cylinder unit. Also what specifically did they do to increase the torque capacity? Saying is beefed up is just a puff statement.
They "beefed up" body rigidity for the 6 from the 4 by bolting in a K member. Other manufactures build a box around the outside of that entire section. Lots of ways to beef stuff. In my TL MT Honda put a very slow acting pressure relief valve in the hydraulic clutch operating assembly to slow clutch engagement but were still losing transmissions.
A lot of guys were frustrated by it & removed it....Removal instructions are in the 3G forum.
From the press release:
The new engine is exclusively paired with an enhanced version of Acura’s 10-speed automatic that has been updated to handle the considerable torque and power output of the Type S Turbo V6. Updated internal components include a new torque converter, stronger internal gears, improved internal clutches, and a Type S-exclusive transmission cooler mounted in front of the radiator designed to keep the transmission operating temperatures constant even at the vehicle’s 155-mph top speed.
Drivers can choose fully automatic operation or use steering-wheel mounted paddles to manually shift for themselves. When using the paddles, the transmission uses Type S-exclusive programming for 40-percent quicker downshifts. In Sport+ mode, the transmission also upshifts 30 percent faster by using a brief fuel cut during the gearchange.
Internally, the 10-speed automatic underwent significant changes. The P1 and P3 pinion gears both use stronger materials, and the P2, P3, intermediate shaft, and P1 ring hub all benefit from a fine-particle peen (FPP) process. Similar to more conventional shot peening, FPP uses a much smaller media that increases surface hardness and wear resistance, but with an ultra-smooth finish that is ideal for the close-tolerance areas inside a transmission. Additional strengthening measures include carbon nitriding of the two-way clutch hub, and a paproslide solid lubricant coating on the P2 sun gear. Additionally, a new torque converter uses a high torque-compliant damper to accommodate the increased torque output of the new engine, and the transmission valve body is also modified for the high-pressure usage needed for lock up control on the high-torque engine.
I don't think the transmission is the limiting factor. There have been reports of tuned Accords on E85 putting down 400hp and the transmission is holding up fine. I think it's actually related to the SH-AWD system, perhaps the clutchpacks. Consider that the Accord and TLX both use the same 10AT, but in the Accord it's not pulling back power in lower gears whereas in the TLX it does.
I don't think the transmission is the limiting factor. There have been reports of tuned Accords on E85 putting down 400hp and the transmission is holding up fine. I think it's actually related to the SH-AWD system, perhaps the clutchpacks. Consider that the Accord and TLX both use the same 10AT, but in the Accord it's not pulling back power in lower gears whereas in the TLX it does.
I am not sure why Acura can not program software to distribute power to rear as per limit of SH_AWD and send rest to front, why neuter the power in first gear? It will still be way better than that modified Accord,
I don't think this list is such a good plan in supporting the Type-S 5-60 performance. It seems to suggest that the car is dead last among current models & looks comparable, third place, to cars some of which came out 5/6 years ago & are no longer in production.
Current Cars: 4.7s BMW M340i 4.9s Volvo S60 T8 5.0s Infiniti Q50 Red Sport
5.1 MB C43 5.3s Audi S4, Kia Stinger GT
Prior Generation cars:
5.2 Genesis G70 2019 5.4s Mercedes C450 AMG (pre-refresh) 2016 5.5s TLX Type S, Cadillac CT5-V RWD, Porsche Panamera 3.0T (just for s**ts and giggles) 5.6s BMW 435i Gran Coupe (prior gen) 2015 5.8s Audi S5 Sportback, BMW 340i (prior gen) 2015 6.0s Lexus IS350 F-sport
Nobody here cares about the numbers & yet y'all keep throwing up the numbers. Its a VERY NICE CAR, but the numbers do not come anywhere near backing Acura's overall marketing plan based on competitive performance with the current sports sedans.
C&D testing with the 2020 S4 has 5-60 is 5.7sec so that is slower than the TLX-S (original post had bad data)
But why miss some of the basic things that could have made this car class leading and a signature car for Acura? I don't view it as ranting, rather just stating an obvious fact that the Type-S misses the mark in many areas, and I fail to understand why Honda/Acura continue to disappoint. The NSX is case in point. They could have churned out an incredible V-8, instead they backed down along the way opting for a Cosworth 6 with some electric motors, but I digress. As you note sales numbers will do the talking, take a look at US inventories of the Type-S. The past 3 days they've continued to tick up, that's more and more Type-S's sitting on dealer lots at insane markups. Sadly there is very little that is special about this car...
My dealer had two more pre-sold on launch day than his quota. Yesterday he had three in stock, and AFAIK he never asked for ADM. Clearly some are bailing on their orders.
My dealer had two more pre-sold on launch day than his quota. Yesterday he had three in stock, and AFAIK he never asked for ADM. Clearly some are bailing on their orders.
When I cancelled my order the sales guy mentioned it was funny because I was the 3rd cancellation (out of his 8 sales based on a prior conversation) to come in recently. It was maybe a week after the drag videos came out? Anyways. Think some have seen the performance is more in line with an Accord then an actual sports car so that's a pretty big turn off, as I've said a million times doesn't help that not only is it not that quick but they cheaped out on features too so bit of a double whammy for those who swallowed the lack of features hoping for a performance bargain only to see it's not good at that either.
I drove the Type-S again yesterday - and had my wife with me this time. We drove 5 cars that day (man, that's a lot for an afternoon!).
Cars tested with my wife:
Acura TLX Type-S
B9 Audi S4
B9 Audi S5 Sportback
C7 Audi S6
C8 Audi A6
I also drove numerous other vehicles in the class, but these were the ones I was interested in. Surprisingly the Acura beat out things like the CT5-V and the Volvo S-60 T8 and the Merc C43 AMG (WAY too firm) and the BMW i340xi (didn't like the firmness either).
The thing we both remarked about in the Acura was that it drove like our RDX. Smooth, quick to shift, comfortable. Didn't feel necessarily luxurious, but it was precise and cornered well. The fake exhaust was a bit much, though, and the road noise was noticeable
The S6 and A6 although fast, were too big and less precise, but we loved the quiet.
The S5 was a bit noisier than we wanted, and the S4 we tested didn't have acoustic glass, but it was quieter. The S5 and S4 handled remarkably better than the TLX.
My wife, not a car person, but appreciates lack of body roll, said, once she drove the S4 "Yep - this is the one, it just has it."
The 0-60 in the video on the 3 runs right around 5.24 seconds. Is his measurement device accurate? Sport+ and Launch Control were used as well he said.
Based on the new C&D number 4.9 it looks pretty close.
So that will move the TypeS up onbilirubin's listfrom last place # 7 among the current cars to # 6 on the 5-60 metric ahead of a car that outside of 300ft Skid pad (Type S 0.96G to S4 0.95G) that beats it in all the 9 other metrics listed including fuel economy. Hey gotta take whatever points you can get.
So the S4 has .2 more turbo lag at 5MPH but runs away from the TypeS from 0 to 130 & has better passing capability when you hit the gas. Given a choice I would prefer a slower 5-60 time than a slower 30 to 50 & 50 to 70 time. One is a non-event since the 0-60 times are real world VS an interesting factoid 5-60 that will disappear as more cars like the Germans running the 8ZF incorporate Light Hybrid tech to cover the lag.
I did a quick test drive today. I thought it was about what I would expect: a quicker TLX. It didn't pull 65-90 on the highway at an absurd rate (definitely faster than the J35 by a lot) but it's still reasonable. Felt like a Honda product in that it's targeting an average without being crazy anywhere. The fastest car I've ever been in is a C63 with the 6.2L engine and that thing was scary violent acceleration....the Type S is not even close.
Forward visibility was noticeable though. The crease in the hood is really pronounced.
And black still sucks as a color here:
This car isn't being sold for 45 more days or something. 183 miles on the odo. $5k ADM. Asked about red (since red and blue are my 2 favorites) and salesperson said that red they'll probably have the fewest because its the worst selling color for them.
This car isn't being sold for 45 more days or something. 183 miles on the odo. $5k ADM.
$5k ADM would make it a total of $8k more than a Prestige AWD A4, which has nearly the same performance as the Type S. I guess folks paying ADM are getting the car no matter what anyone says or thinks.
$5k ADM would make it a total of $8k more than a Prestige AWD A4, which has nearly the same performance as the Type S. I guess folks paying ADM are getting the car no matter what anyone says or thinks.
Yeah, I'm not going to judge everyone paying ADM but at least it's more respectable % wise than paying $5k or $10k over on a CTR. I'll probably go test drive an M340x just to see how that is. Or maybe jump up another level to the M5 CPO (cause I need AWD and the M3 don't have it). It was a funny coincidence that while driving to the dealership I saw an M340x in blue on the road next to me. "It's a sign!"
Good catch, and thanks for the C43 link as well, I've updated the list below...
5-60 times (Car & Driver)
4.7s BMW M340i
4.9s Volvo S60 T8
5.0s Infiniti Q50 Red Sport
5.1s C43 AMG
5.3s Kia Stinger GT
5.4s Mercedes C450 AMG (pre-refresh)
5.5s TLX Type S, Cadillac CT5-V RWD, Porsche Panamera 3.0T
5.6s BMW 435i Gran Coupe (prior gen)
5.7s Audi S4, RLX Sport Hybrid
5.8s Audi S5 Sportback, BMW 340i (prior gen), Civic Type R, TLX (G1 FWD), TL Type S (G3)
*5.9s Accord 2.0T (*on 40k-mile test, 6.4s when new)
6.0s Lexus IS350 F-sport
...it's interesting to note that the Audi S4 only seems to be quicker from a dig due to it's more aggressive launch control. Without it, the Type S is actually quicker. ThrottleHouse routinely does non-LC drag races, but Sam CarLegion does not. The narrative would've definitely be different here if he did. Regardless, I never brake-torque or use launch control on my S5, so 5-60 is the better acceleration metric for me.
I did a quick test drive today. I thought it was about what I would expect: a quicker TLX. It didn't pull 65-90 on the highway at an absurd rate (definitely faster than the J35 by a lot) but it's still reasonable. Felt like a Honda product in that it's targeting an average without being crazy anywhere. The fastest car I've ever been in is a C63 with the 6.2L engine and that thing was scary violent acceleration....the Type S is not even close.
Forward visibility was noticeable though. The crease in the hood is really pronounced.
And black still sucks as a color here:
This car isn't being sold for 45 more days or something. 183 miles on the odo. $5k ADM. Asked about red (since red and blue are my 2 favorites) and salesperson said that red they'll probably have the fewest because its the worst selling color for them.
Is it just me, or does Honda/Acura have a very limited selection of interior/exterior colors?
\ Or maybe jump up another level to the M5 CPO (cause I need AWD and the M3 don't have it). It was a funny coincidence that while driving to the dealership I saw an M340x in blue on the road next to me. "It's a sign!"
Why you "need" AWD?? In that class of performance (M5, Cadillac V, RS, etc...) these cars come with performance tires which are utterly useless in bad weather meaning that if you live in a cold weather place you need to replace the tires anyway, regardless of AWD or RWD. Since you are swapping tires anyway to be able to drive during snowy days in winter, you can put high quality winter rubber on a RWD sedan and still be able to go around reasonably well.
You are right, buying CPO is the most financially sound way to go.
Why you "need" AWD?? In that class of performance (M5, Cadillac V, RS, etc...) these cars come with performance tires which are utterly useless in bad weather meaning that if you live in a cold weather place you need to replace the tires anyway, regardless of AWD or RWD. Since you are swapping tires anyway to be able to drive during snowy days in winter, you can put high quality winter rubber on a RWD sedan and still be able to go around reasonably well.
You are right, buying CPO is the most financially sound way to go.
in Canada, having a RWD car is a big decision, no matter how good your winter tires are, your traction is going to be severly limited compared to awd or even fwd in the snow. Several cars that are available in RWD in the states are only offered in AWD in canada (such as the Q50) Because no one wants to deal with RWD up here in February when your trying to get to work through 2 feet of snow and the plow hasnt gotten to your street yet. Im not sure where dr/owned is from but depending on where you’re from AWD can certainly be a need more then a want. It’s one of the main reasons i never had to consider waiting to see how awesome the is500 is going to be because its RWD so its not an option for me.
Seems like Acura PR is reading our posts & bought a nice commentary. Guy tried to cover each one. Not bad presentation fans will like it but don't think it will win any hearts & minds of the of people looking to move upscale.
Legend2TL, looks like the main Acura surrogate Red Line is still selling against BMW. So we have RL faking the TLX-S/Audi "drag race". Over stating 0-60 performance by going down hill & now with the $15K cheaper non-sense.
Be interested to see the Dragy of the downhill run as Dragy will mark the run as "invalid" for going downhill.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 07-22-2021 at 10:39 AM.
Be interested to see the Dragy of the downhill run as Dragy will mark the run as "invalid" for going downhill.
Didn't watch video yet, but I knew that 4.58s time was going downhill since that's how he tested the G70 and angle looked off. Did the same for recent SQ5 SB review, but this time he mentioned decline. Why not pick a good spot and do it correctly.
Last edited by pyrodan007; 07-22-2021 at 10:57 AM.
07-15-2021, 12:35 PM
