BEAR-AvHistory

Store where I bought my Z4 says this about the 330 which is based on MSRP like all BMW advertised leases which anyone with any buying skill should be able to knock down by 10% or more.

Lieth BMW Raleigh NC

"2021 BMW 330i Sedan

$429/mo. 36-Month-Lease

or 1.9% APR for 60 months

Free Owner's Track Drive Program

(with new car purchase)

• With the purchase of a new BMW, customers will receive 2 complimentary seats at the BMW Performance Center in either South Carolina or Southern California - the School for Accelerated Learning at the BMW Performance Center"

That said the BMW pricing is not about competition with Acura its about competing with Lexus, Audi & Mercedes. Acura will always be the low priced spread or value for the buck car. Problem for Acura is value for the buck is not how you describe luxury.

BEAR-AvHistory

Think you just made the Acura marketing department all consider seppuku. Certainly not the thing they want to hear about a mass market car.

Carnage719

Considering it's not a high volume seller, he probably won't see many 2Gs anyway. After I purchased my 1G (2018-2020), I would estimate I've seen 10-15 in my local area, regardless of the model, in 3.5yrs.

Kense

Funny I just saw a TLX commercial bragging about having more HP than a 330i, as if that really matters. The 330i is obviously a faster car.

BEAR-AvHistory

Yeah its too bad the TLX-2 was not available for the Car & Driver 4 cylinder group test.
BMW 330, Alfa TI, Genesis G70, Volvo S60.
Finish order & score was

BMW - 207
Alfa - 196
Genesis - 183
Volvo - 181
The Alfa had the most power 280BHP & best times 60 in 4.6, quarter in 13.3@104. 330 255BHP did 60 in 5.1, quarter in 13.8@100. The other two were 6 seconds & mid/high 14's in the 90's.

The 330 won all the other major actual measures 155 MPH, 151ft 70-0 braking, .99G skidpad, 30/26/36 mpg + some important opinion ones like best amenities, best fit & finish, best engine NVH, best performance. Almost all the categories it did not win it came in second on.

Maybe next time it will be included but the standalone TLX-2 C&D test numbers would most likely not have put it on the podium.
C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 5.9 sec 5.1
1/4 mile: 14.5 sec @ 97 mph 13.8@100
Top speed (governor limited): 131 mph 155 MPH
Braking, 70–0 mph: 177 ft 151ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.87 g 0.99 g
EPA FUEL ECONOMY (C/D EST)
Combined/city/highway: 24/21/29 mpg 30/26/36 mpg

The disparity in the TLX-2 numbers @ 272 BHP when compared to the Alfa's sub 5 second numbers @ 280 BHP suggest the TLX is just too fat for the engine it has. Am sure the Type S will put on a better show as it would be a major embarrassment to have the 4 cylinder Alfa TI out perform it.

bilirubin

Agreed, the Alfa is quite impressive for a 2.0T. With that said, part of why it's lighter is due to RWD, and I suspect the FWD G2 TLX may be a better comparison as the curb weight is only about 85lbs heavier than the Alfa. Has there been any instrumented tests for the 2021 FWD TLX?

The Alfa also seems to have terrible turbo lag: its 5.9 second 5-60 time is quite a bit slower than its 4.6 second 0-60. That 5-60 time is actually slower than the FWD G1 TLX 3.5.

And the Type S, although heavier, will still have a fairly significant power-to-weight advantage over the Giulia Ti. So I don't expect it to be outperformed by the Giulia. Perhaps a similar 0-60 time, but I'd be shocked if the 5-60 was remotely close. Assuming the Type S does not have launch control, I'm expecting 4.5 to 4.7 second 0-60, and 5.1 to 5.3 second 5-60.

ELIN

Nice summary! The more I think about it, the TLX is now better suited to new Acura owners who’ve never owned German luxury based on value proposition as it checks a lot of boxes. The current Acura fanbase has stopped short of pitchforks!

pyrodan007

I'm not too sure that's actually a good thing since the number of people wanting an upgrade becomes limited. You'll get the Honda folks, because that's a natural path. The German folks, you already lost them on performance and option combinations ... that's if they even check Acura's website due to brand association. You have the Toyota group, but reliability is not comparable. Then you have the Koreans, and Acura gets killed on price per feature (even more so with GT and N versions). So, in the end, the TLX remains alone in a very niche group. Too large outside, too small inside, not performant enough, not enough evolution or customization. The Type-S may fix the performance side, everything else still stays.

BEAR-AvHistory

I could be an outlier as I never owned a Honda before I bought the TL. That said I needed a 4 door school bus & went to buy an Accord but could not get past some of the body style items. Walked next store & bought the TL the same day. Two of my daughters who did Pilots & Accords as their first all new car are now driving German. One of Acura's problems is the lack of conquest sales.

Based on what I see in the posts here the natural progression is Honda to Acura as it looks like most members here owned a Honda before they bought the TL or TLX

pyrodan007

Same here, 07 TL Type-S was my first Acura and car. Still in the family, until it falls apart .. sadly getting close with rust, oh well. My brother has it, and he has zero intentions of getting the TLX Type-S. If Acura can't get old Type-S-ers to come over, what are the odds it will be a hit.

ELIN

I've never owned a Honda before my MDX and now TLX.

Carnage719

I owned two Civics, and an Accord that was the last Honda I owned before buying my TLX. My overall experience with Honda was underwhelming, and downright regrettable for the Accord. If my A5 Sportback test drive wasn't so disappointing, I would've never looked at the 2018 TLX because it was made by Honda. I actually found out about the refreshed TLX on Redline Reviews.

ELIN

What didn’t you like about the A5?

Carnage719

I was upgrading from a 15yr old VW Passat that shared a lot mechanically with the Audi A4/A6 of that time. I was expecting the A5 Sportback to substantially elevate everything I loved about my Passat. Boy, was I disappointed. It was like an isolation chamber lacking any communication with the driver. Pluses were the luxury appointed interior and drop dead gorgeous exterior, but the driving experience was so sedate and lacking any exhilaration. I knew right away what I was looking for was in the S5 model, but I couldn't justify the increased price tag.

ELIN

I understand what you mean. Thankfully I enjoy the ride and the looks of my current TLX!

Carnage719

The 2G is a nice looking car, but as a current owner of a 2018 ASpec V6, I'd only consider the Type-S as an upgrade. Again, like the S5 Sportback, the price is more than I'd want to spend, but I'll definitely take a look.

abovetheclouds

ELIN

Nice review! I have observed that appreciative glances are pretty even b/w men and women. This car should do well in both gender demographics.

Carnage719

The thing I noticed most in the review is at 7:47. She's overselling the spaciousness of the cabin, which we all know is lacking in the rear. Despite her petite appearance, the rear door blocks the view of her legs so that you can't see the lack of rear leg room, even at her size.

ELIN

It's lacking but not something previous TLX owners haven't seen. I get that a lot of folks are upset that the exterior increase didn't translate to the interior but it's in line with the rest of the class.

Increasing the interior would make it compete directly with A6, E-Class, and BMW 5-series, which would just make it absurdly cheaper than the "competition".

Carnage719

What I don't understand is when you compare the TLX to the Accord, how did the designers create so much interior room in the Accord? Does it have anything to do with accommodating the SH-AWD architecture?

fiatlux

It's not so much that they made the Accord's interior bigger so much as as they decided to shrink the interior of the TLX to make it feel more "sporty", because I guess a cavernous interior suggests family car instead of sport sedan.

Carnage719

I guess that's in line with Acura's statement that they didn't consider increasing overall interior space because, "If you want more room, buy the RDX."

ELIN

There is truth to that. If I wanted my car to be a family cruiser, I would have gotten another MDX. I downsized to the TLX for a reason!

F23A4

That's a fair observation, as I owned several Hondas either alongside or prior to owning Acura branded vehicles (largely the MDX and TLX). As such the transition was fairly seamless.

That being stated, comparable BMW models were always in the running prior to pulling the trigger on my MDXs/TLXs. (Granted, I only like the 3/5 series and X5.) If they leased as well as Acura then, there's a good probability that I would have gone that route for a stint.

However, I do know a number of people who retreated to Asian makes after going the Euro route for a bit, citing 'reliability' as the predominant reason. In fairness, I also know a lot of people committed enough to the Euro driving experience, that they're willing to sacrifice a little 'reliability.'

fiatlux

Isn’t the TLX only a couple inches shorter than the MDX? Doesn’t seem like much of a downsizing

Carnage719

Funny, because of the TLX's increased size, the difference in overall length between the 2G and current MDX is only 1.6".

ELIN

No, that's true. However, that's a beautiful segue into these tables:

Note that the competition has anywhere from 80-90% of the features for the TLX and ~$10k more MSRP (I'll put that savings towards something else!)

fiatlux

What I've seeing is that those mid-size competitors all have considerably more headroom, rear legroom, and rear hip room than the TLX, so are they really it's competitors? Just because the exterior size is similar isn't quite the right metric to look at methinks.

ELIN

I know. My point is even though the exterior sizes are very similar, the TLX doesn't lose a ton of interior space compared to the Germans. It's definitely ballpark!

Even in trunk space it's competitive!

dmski

+1. I have the same car as you and it's Type S or go home. I would absolutely not renew the lease to get into 2G Aspec. I think the price will not make sense though and the dealers will not deal for at least the first 2 years so yeah looking at Germans makes sense.

ELIN

I think my dealer gave me a decent deal. The negotiated price was <$43,000 on a $47,775 MSRP!

I rather get that now than waiting til Spring when Acura may not do anything on a super high margin product.

Carnage719

The consensus is that not only will dealers not budge on MSRP for the Type-S, they will probably market adjust it over MSRP. Based on the less than ideal release of the other 2G models, a disappointing release for the Type-S is likely the only thing standing between dealers and outrageous pricing.

someguy11

What year was your MDX though? 20 years ago, there were some (like my parents) who skipped the Honda and went for Acura, because there was reason to. Their 00 3.5RL and 03 MDX had stuff I don't think you could get in an Accord or Pilot (was top trim EX-L back then?) like heated leather, power everything, puddle lights, SAT radio, NAV, RES, plus the gorgeous looks of those. Man, that 3.5RL was sweet. Jet black, gorgeous, classy, fast and smooth. Super stiff suspension, but not rough. When my dad would let me drive it, I felt like a million bucks. Great car to take to homecoming and sweetheart dances. There wasn't even a Honda equivalent for it back then. The MDX and its luxury too. Both were worth skipping the Honda if you had the means and wanted the options, tech, looks and badge.

This point has been made ad nauseum here, but since like 2013 when Honda started offering Touring trims, there is less justification to spend more on Acura. Does anyone know what a 21 TLX does that an 18 Accord Touring doesn't? Or why one would buy an MDX over a Pilot Touring? Is it just the looks or the badge these days? Serious questions because I don't know. It just feel like Hondacura is defeating their own progression channel by making Honda better and Acura not.

Edit: just for grins, I googled 00 3.5RL for some images, and yeah, it's still gorgeous to this day. I stumbled upon this article here from back when RL and LS were used in the same sentence. When was the last time you read these adjectives about an Acura sedan? "Completely devoid of shortcomings" - "aims to deliver everything a luxury buyer expects and hits its mark squarely" - "poise and grace"... I can't really find a bad review about that car on Edmunds or KBB.

ELIN

New review from CarMax. There's not much to the review but it does list the TLX as the third most reliable car in all of 2020:

https://www.carmax.com/articles/2021-acura-tlx-review

ELIN

It was a 2018 MDX w/tech that I just turned in for a TLX. My youngest was still in a babyseat and I wanted the 3 zones to keep the kids from messing with each other. In the 2.75 years I had the MDX, the youngest child rode in the car once! It was time for me to downgrade the need from SUV to sedan and enjoy it before my oldest starts driving!

I found the pilot to be too boxy but the MDX at least had the sleeker look of a crossover. I previously owned a 2006 Murano and that got me hooked the first time.

F23A4

That’s great to see from a ‘neutral’ source. At the risk triggering an apoplectic reply, both my old 16 3.5 PAWS and my 19 3.5 PAWS have been absolutely trouble free.







*excuse me while I check my downstairs cam! 😁

ELIN

Here's another one from consumerguide.com. I disagree with the "con" as the trim packages facilitate choice as opposed to countless options that are "tacked on". This is a perception that is difficult to overcome as a consumer even though at the end of the day, it's really all the same.

https://consumerguide.com/best-buys/2021-acura-tlx/

Tony Pac

ELIN - the issue is you will never find the perfect car or review. You have to be happy with your purchase. Everyone come and gives their own opinion but everyone's need is different. Let's say Acura sold 150,000+ units of the first gen TLX since 2014. we have some very unsatisfied owners here and some very satisfied ones. The good news is that there are plenty of cars out there from German to Japanese and Korean.

I always say one thing, test drive, test and test drive. If the car meets your needs, don't give a F**K what others think. At the end of the day, you are the one paying $40-$50 or $60K The new TLX will be sold and will have buyers regardless of what people think here. Acura raised the price but their sales projection is very low (~35,000 units per year). They will probably make more money by selling few cars at higher price. This is of course my assumption. But most companies car or others, this is how they determine their cost, break-even point and profitability. i am sure Acura did not wake up one morning and announced these prices.

ELIN

True. The fact that I got the TLX well below invoice definitely adds to the satisfaction level!