richii0207

If we shopped based on spec sheet, we’d all be driving a Model 3 Performance since it checks the boxes for fastest, least maintenance cost, most efficient, and best driver features in the class. 😄

Tony Pac

hahah nailed!

Thanks for the most logical message in this forum!

dmski

Read through any BMW threads and yes people love the performance but see how many trash it for being unreliable.

robnalex

That's just pure B.S. I've been reading multiple BMW threads for over a year and the majority of owners find them very reliable. I can't even remember reading a post about unreliability.

dmski

Just saying in general. People that trash Acura don't own one and didn't even test drive it. Same goes for BMW, doubt that most that complain ever owned one.

Tony Pac

Great review:

Kense

Please post those threads because I’m on both Bimmerpost and Bimmerfest and rarely will you see a post about unreliability. Unless you count a rattling sunroof unreliability.

ELIN

I recently joined Bimmerpost as well and have seen no such issues.

dmski, I think your info is outdated based on prior decades perhaps?

richii0207

I don’t speak don’t speak for everyone. I’ve had 4 BMWs, mainly 3 series, starting with the a E90 all the way to the F30. In fact, I’ve spent more time with BMW vehicles than any other manufacturer. The E90 had nearly everything replaced from transmission, engine, pumps, electronics, and needed to be walnut blasted often to keep it running optimal. I visited the parts department so much that the worker and I knew each other.

The last one I owned was an F30 which needed new injectors and starter right before the warranty expired. Traded it in before the warranty was up.

What I got out of my 15 years of owning BMWs. They are great vehicles, but if things go wrong, it’s costly to repair. Nice vehicles to lease unless you don’t mind out of warranty repair costs. I learned early on with the repair costs that it was just made more sense to get a new one rather than keep paying to repair an old model.

F23A4

Safe to say: not a Toyota Camry

ELIN

You may be proving my point. How old was your most recent BMW?

richii0207

2019, only 1yr older than your previous TLX.

ELIN

I had a 2021 TLX purchased in 2020.

Funny how so many folks have been trying to scare me away from the Germans. I bought my first Mercedes more than 10 years ago!

leomio2.0

I thought this place was the only one filled with negativity towards Acura. Looks like a slew of criticisms said thru hundreds of comments saying what we've been saying over here.

I've been in a more forgiving mood towards Acura lately and even started considering the Type-S again, especially with tuning being released. And then I drove the RDX to the gym today and the rattles have cropped back up with a vengeance and my sourness towards the brand resumed.

Hell, I might go and pull a polar opposite switch and jump into a Lexus ES F-Sport Handling. Not a shitbox like Acura puts together, completely unassuming (less neckbeards looking at the car) and I find driving a podunk cruiser puts me in a more sedate driving mood. I really friggin wish Lexus had put the V8 in the ES as well as the IS.

richii0207

Considering you’re leasing the car, you shouldn’t have to worry about paying a dime on anything while leasing the car since maintenance is included as well. Just gotta keep the miles down so you don’t have to pay that premium when you return the car!

ELIN

I broke the lease cycle with the X3. I finally have equity if I change my mind!

csmeance

It's the V8 folks with the issues! I6's have been very stout and reliable, esp once BMW figured out their injector issues almost a decade ago. The 4cyl engines have had timing chain issues that are well known across BMW boards. Whatever you do, don't buy a hybrid BMW, many of those get totaled out as the batteries can be very expensive down the road. You'll see a ton of 2009-2015 Active Hybrid BMW's at copart because the battery is kaput.

Only issues you'll see now are carbon buildup (common across many brands) and expensive maintenance. FCPeuro with their lifetime warranty certainly helps.

F23A4

I was looking at the F30 330i but was scared off by this issue after reading up on this as well as seeing a few YT clips from owners. Seems like the 340i is the better option in terms of reliability as well as performance.

mike03a3

Old news. The V-8s with the issues were the first generation twin-turbo ones. As the world's first "hot vee" V-8 engines they had more than their share of problems. The engines were almost completely redesigned, with the current ones sharing almost no parts with the original ones. I looked into very carefully before I bought one last year. The 4 cyl timing chain problems were a previous engine that was last made in 2014.

Can't speak to the hybrids. I wouldn't buy one of any make.

bilirubin

some TLX customers may have cross-shopped the Accord, but that might change with the new Accord as Honda is dropping the 2.0T in-lieu of a 2.0 hybrid set up. The Accord gets a couple things the TLX should get like a 12" infotainment screen, digital gauges, and rear USB chargers...
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...cord-revealed/
...at least we can say the Accord isn't quicker that a TLX A-spec anymore.

Legend2TL

My main issue with BMW's tend to be the poor seals that deteriorate over time/mileage/heat cycles from everything from valves to cylinder head covers that are difficult and expensive to replace. Don't own a BMW but my one brother currently has a 2015 B6 and the other has a 2011 335i E92. I work on both, routine maintenance (oil/filter change, brake pads) are similar to Honda/Acura.

It's the difficult engine repairs that I'll dread once/when they come along. BMW's use of plastics for internal engine components or electric water pumps are also frustrating as reliability engineering woulda flagged those parts as not long term. Then putting two hot turbo's in the middle of the V also makes no sense from a thermal management point of view. Top cylinder head fuel injectors that make replacing the cylinder head cover gaskets a 4-6 hour task. I'm used to Honda/Acura cylinder crank seals and cylinder head cover seals lasting 300K+ miles, not 100K

That said, BMW make some fabulous cars that are highly enjoyable to drive. It's the long term ownership (10+ years) that makes ownership difficult for me. Leasing or owning for 5-7 (100k-150k miles) years makes for a much better owner experience.



The N20 4 cylinder with the notorious plastic timing chain guides were made from 2011 until 2017, used in X3's until 2017.

mike03a3

The engine lived on, but the timing chain (not valve) guide was replaced with an improved one starting with Jan 2015 production.

fiatlux

Somebody made a monkey's paw wish for the TLX to be faster than the Accord, and this is the result

Tony Pac

I was about to post that. I am noticing Honda and Acura are making some major changes to their product lines and pricing. For example, recently the price of the new CRV was a bit of a shock, at least in Canada. The base CRV starts at CAD$37K and goes all the way to CAD$51K. that's very high for a CRV to be priced at $51K vs. RDX ASPEC is about the same price in Canada. I have to check what's going in the US.

bilirubin

You read my mind!
And this would be a good time for Acura to introduce the FWD TLX to Canada. It would close the gap left by the outgoing Accord 2.0T.

sombasol

dropping of lower trims or raising the prices (and included options) in Canada has been going on for a bit. I bought a 2012 Honda Odyssey LX new for $27,000 ($29,000 list), the cheapest model you can get now is an EX @ $45,590. They are pricing me out. if i got a new van now it would likely be a Kia Carnival starting @ $35,795 (although i would option up to the LX+ @39,295)

leomio2.0

I was thinking either this, or ... perhaps they didn't want something like the Accord competing against sales of the upcoming Integra Type-S. With the curb weight being less than 300lbs different, you're likely looking at somewhat similar performance for nearly $10k less with the Accord and a vehicle that's more practical and roomy inside (not to mention an all-around nicer vehicle to drive as a daily).

I quite like the redesign of the Accord, but without the 2.0T, it's completely out of consideration.

fiatlux

Yeah, this is making me feel like the ITS might not come with a 6MT or the CTR's K20C. If it did, what kind of enthusiast would rather buy a 10AT Accord 2.0T over a 6MT 2.0T Integra? At this point I'm bracing myself for a 10AT detuned 2.0T like the TLX and RDX.

ESHBG

I think the opposite will occur and this will push more people towards an Accord than a TLX. This Accord is pretty loaded and the price of gas is going to stay high; and a hybrid is a very nice step between ICE and EV so if you want to baby step the process this is a great option.

leomio2.0

Yep. 100% agree. I've been saying it for a while ... I'd be very surprised if the ITS came with anything other than a K20C4 (TLX/RDX) 2.0T with 10AT.

My primary reason for getting the RDX over a CRV was for the 2.0T. It looks like Honda Motors is going to make the C4 2.0T exclusive to the Acura while leaving the only 2.0T on Honda's end to the CTR, which will be its top performance variant. Seems like going forward, their model will be: Go with Honda if you want a neutered commuter with good gas mileage and go with Acura if you want something more upscale along with more performance.

ESHBG

The new Accord has a lot going for it and I still prefer this interior layout to Acura's (minus the Integra). Interesting that the Touring only will have Google Maps built in:

ELIN

I still think they're different platforms but it looks quite a bit like the latest TLX for some reason...

richii0207

Smart of Honda to have a handrest for interacting with the infotainment system. Having your hand bounce/ sway while driving and trying to interact with the screen is rather dangerous and annoying. This is why I prefer having the touchpad.

F23A4

Same; I see the 2G TLX in the proportions of the 11G Accord. That notwithstanding, I'm not feeling this Accord aesthetically. While I didnt like the styling of the 10G either, it at least tried to stand out with a sport Audi A7 type appearance. (sidenote: As far as Accord sedans go, I'd rock a 16-17 Touring V6 all day every day. Too bad they're so expensive still.)

Tesla1856

I like the new Accord (with the grill/bumper now looking less Lexus like). Interior seems fine also.

Shame a bunch of those in that search are neutered with the 1.5T . This one looks nice. Might even have Backup-cam and Bluetooth.

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invent...342901604/NONE

richii0207

The other manufacturers will likely follow suit with downsizing engines to meet the upcoming MPG mandate. Plus the fact that the K20 is not a very fuel efficient engine.
https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases...year-2024-2026

Tesla1856

True.

And without going full-EV, MHEV can net some extra power and well as (more-so) with a PHEV .

But I was responding to post I quoted where poster mentioned 5 year-old used Accords. The old Honda V6 ... while only delivering around 240hp was a nice engine and was often paired with a real automatic transmission (while it's siblings just got a CVT).

fiatlux

Makes sense for Honda to push their hybrid powertrains by eliminating the 2.0T. From what I understand, the latest iteration is actually quite good and competitive, and they desperately need to improve how buyers perceive their electrication efforts if they want to have any shot at staying relevant.

silverTL6

iTrader: (2)

I can understand dropping the 2.0T if the hybrid made just as much power or was faster, but as it stands, the hybrid seems to be no different than the one in the CR-V (tuned for economy and non-sporty driving). So if mpg's and sales volume were the goals, why not drop the 1.5T which shared that same mission anyway? Oh right, because they didn't want to increase the base price, but losing their performance-minded customers was a worthwhile sacrifice (or rather, upselling them to the base TLX to get a slower car with less room for more $$$).

fiatlux

It’s a changing of the times. Automakers are realizing that buyers who want performance are becoming fewer and fewer and those who do still want performance are going to move towards electric as the straight line performance can’t be beat. They’re in the business of making money, not in the business of keeping a niche customer segment happy.