dmski

You should compare their sales before the chip shortage hit. I don't think EV is the solution for Acura or Infinit as well. You honestly think people will run to Infiniti and buy their full EV models after they completely destroyed their brand.

mike03a3

I forgot to mention Tesla. Northern Virginia is positively crawling with them.

ESHBG

I am wrong and then you use the term "the best"? Please tell me what Acura is the best in nowadays? Luxury? Nope. Features? Nope. Sporty? Nope. Practicality? Nope. Price? Nope. Reliability? Nope. MPG? Nope. It's now a brand that doesn't quite fit well into any category and like I said, struggling with an identity.

Acura is going full EV so apparently they do feel as if it's the solution. I would have preferred hybrids (at least as a first step or along with EV), though, and it's unfortunate that they abandoned them.

richii0207

Out of curiosity, since you used the terms, what defines:

Luxury
Sporty
Features
Price
Reliability

I understand MPG given Honda/Acura’s MPG for their engines is middle of the pack numbers as seen in their vehicles such as their 2.0T cars and 3.5 SUVs. This is a Honda problem though, not specific to Acura. For instance, I get nearly the same MPG on my CTR as my TLX Type S and the 2.0T Accords achieves only 32 mpg.

MarcoTLX

i can attest to this, everyone and their mother has a tesla in NoVa, not to mention that 9 times out of 10 it’s either 1 of 2 tesla models, the model 3 or model y.. every now and then you’ll see a Model S, Model X and once in a blue moon you’ll run into a Model S Plaid. I have seen more people in NoVa with Porsche Taycans, Hyundai Ioniq 5s, and Mustang Mach E cars.

ESHBG

He said the best. Is Acura the best in any of the categories I mentioned? But my breakdown would be:

Luxury - fit and finish, overall ownership experience

Sporty - more than just cosmetics. Acura can be okay in this dept. but I would not define it as the best

Features - basic things like a 360 camera missing on most trims is mind boggling

Price - no longer the value it once was. In the past some of the compromises could be justified because of the price but the MDX (for example) is quite expensive now

Reliability - Acura reliability has taken a nosedive and also check out the various forums here with the latest models, lots of issues

fiatlux

I think he meant best line-up in the past 10-12 years of it's own history. As in, it's trajectory is going up, whereas Infiniti's trajectory compared to its glory days is way way down. The product is actually somewhat competitive now, whereas since around 2010 it was a clear step or two under just about every relevant competitor in everything but price.

ELIN

At least for the SHAWD 2.0 TLX, the MPG is pretty much at the bottom of the pack in its class (the AWD G70 is worse but only by 1 mpg on paper). It doesn't help that the TLX is physically larger and a lot heavier than its other classmates.

I would absolutely love 32 mpg at this point!

richii0207

Luxury - fit and finish, overall ownership experience
- I’d say you’re defining quality and quality control here, rather than actual luxury. From a luxury standpoint, MB would probably be leader.

Sporty - more than just cosmetics. Acura can be okay in this dept. but I would not define it as the best
- Subjective considering driving dynamics/experience vs metrics standpoint. For instance, some will prefer a C8 a “sportier” vehicle over the significantly faster Tesla S Plaid. Porsche wins here in every regard.

Features - basic things like a 360 camera missing on most trims is mind boggling
- Some features are reserved for higher trims, this is the reason for different trims that offer additional features at different costs. Every car manufacturer does this?

Price - no longer the value it once was. In the past some of the compromises could be justified because of the price but the MDX (for example) is quite expensive now
- Prices are actually lower for their vehicles with the adjusted inflation price compared to previous generations. For instance, the average MDX MSRP in 2012 was $50,000. If you take into account the 2.5% inflation rate per year, $50,000 in 2012 is equivalent to about $65,000 today, which is around the same price as the MDX Type S which a higher trim than any previous MDX.

Value for what is offered from their vehicle lineup is actually quite good when comparing vehicles within the same segment where the prices increase substantially when similarly equipped.

Reliability - Acura reliability has taken a nosedive and also check out the various forums here with the latest models, lots of issues
- From what I’ve seen, reliability seems to have been worse before considering the posts with engine problems in the previous generations. The issues with the current generation appear to be minor with nothing major such as drivetrain issues. Toyota would win here.

richii0207

The TLX is heavier than the Accord which is a difference of about 600 lbs on average, but MPGs differ by only 1. The problem is not to do with the weight, but the fact that Honda engines are not very efficient. You have their 1.5T engines having identical MPGs to the 2.0T engines from other manufacturers. Why is their CTR rated 28 mpg on highway when it only has a 2.0T and is significantly lighter than the TLX?

pyrodan007

I'm not exactly sure they're competitive right now, they're just catching up to the competition. I remember my 2012 TL and 2015 TLX being very competitive versus features and price (2.4L and 3.5L really helped). Current models are ok but not class leaders in anything.

These are major hurdles versus competition:
- Low MPG, even with smaller turbo engine
- Bad user interface to infotainment
- Exterior size versus internal space
- No hybrid, and this is pretty major with current global situation (gas and Earth-friendly image)

I'm specifically leaving the Type-S out since that one completely misses the mark. It's cheaper, and that's it.

ESHBG

Lots I can say here but one thing is that you can get features on damn near entry level cars now that you can't get on Acura's better trims (the US A-Spec is still missing quite a bit) and it's pretty silly for a "premium" brand.

I don't agree and agree with the below:

fiatlux

That's why I said somewhat competitive. They're second string now, whereas before they weren't even in the conversation and stuck on the practice squad.

bilirubin

The new Nissan Z isn't a direct competitor with the Type S but it's interesting to note that the new Z only beat the Type S by 0.23 seconds on a track (Nissan Z 1:16.43, TLX Type S 1:16.66). For reference, the 2021 Supra was just over 4 seconds quicker at 1:12.17.
See Throttle House's review of the Z...

richii0207

AFAIK, Acura was never class leading in anything, even at the time when you had your TL.

I’d say the majority of ICE brands, minus Porsche, are playing catch up right now to EV brands like Tesla considering the 2026 MPG mandate and the lack of driving features like FSD/summon in addition to the intuitiveness of its software.

Also, considering touchpad UI as bad is pure preference. I prefer the touchpad infotainment system in my Type S than the touchscreen in my Tesla or CTR. No fingerprints on the screen or having to awkwardly lean forward while driving to communicate with it is a huge plus.

I agree with MPGs. Aside from the J30AC, Acura is given the engines that Honda develops. It’s odd that I’m getting nearly the same MPG on my Acura with a 3.5 when compared to the 2.0 in my Honda while weighing 1,000 lbs more and with AWD.

Type S didn’t miss the mark, it just missed your mark. Outside the G70, I’m not sure what other vehicle can offer as much in regards to comfort, features, AWD, and performance within the price range. Unless you were looking for track performance from a Type S. That’s what the Type R line is reserved for. Type S was never meant to be track-oriented but rather a street performance trim as seen by the RSX Type S without LSD or the FWD TL Type S.

pyrodan007

That's the thing, it's only about the price. People looking at German brands already have the budget to go higher than the type-S. People stopping at the Type-S price never had a chance to get something higher/better (depending on person's wants). That's why price is super important to Acura. They're starting to pay the price with the MDX Type-S, Acura customers have a price threshold.

Sorry but FWD and track don't really pair well together, it's again linked to price. And with ADM being charged for CTR, there are better options out there. If I was shopping for a CTR and willing to pay full ADM, I would also compare it against a M240i xDrive. Golf R too but interior controls are crappy.

richii0207

Or perhaps someone’s shopping in the 40s range and was willing to spend extra to get into a Type S. Or in my case, why would I spend more money if I’m already content with what the Type S offers? Why did you stop at the S5 and instead of going for an RS5 since you have the “budget to go higher”? I definitely am not interested in having an or RS4 as my M3 daily for comfort reasons. I’m obviously won’t be using my NSX for my daily when I get it. Keep in mind german brands already have a good fanboy base so the chance for someone willing to try something else is not. Had it not been for my poor experience outside warranty with my former BMWs, I probably would’ve stayed with them. My former daily driver had 120k miles.

FWD has the disadvantage fundamentally but have you ever driven a CTR? There’s a reason why that car is highly regarded for track enthusiasts and does not feel like a FWD when pushed to the limit and can surpass quite a few RWD/AWD track cars. The proof is in the lap times, even running quicker laps than the RS3.

Flapjackura

I can sum up everything regarding Acura's current wrongheaded thinking into one sentence: The new Integra is not equipped with Homelink, at any trim level. What the actual f%@k were they thinking? I had a basic Hyundai Elantra recently as a loaner and it had Homelink. An utterly appalling and in my opinion completely unacceptable piece of shite decision making on Acura's part. Set your expectations on low, folks, because any luxury automaker that makes a decision like this has no more credibility than Infiniti in my mind and any smart decision they make is severely undercut by this hugely bad one. Don't get me wrong, I am very happy with my A-Spec TLX but when it comes time to trade I will almost certainly jump ship to Lexus or Audi unless Acura gets its act together.

richii0207

That’s as odd as my Model Y not coming with a garage door opening as well.

But there are some brands that don’t even include most basic driver features in any trim like ventilated seats or having to pay extra for driver assists when basic economy cars come standard with them.

You are basing an opinion of an entire brand off of one car not having a feature?

pyrodan007

Simply because it's not the same type of car. Very similar to how people say "the Type-S is fast enough". Not sure how comparing a Type-S (55k) to a RS5 SB (90k) is equivalent anyways. At least the S5 SB (65k) is a little closer. And the S5 is already fast enough for me.

As for test driving a CTR, I have absolutely no desire to own a manual car in dense city traffic infested with construction (Montreal, aka "orange cone city"). The day they release a decent automatic may warrant a test drive.

richii0207

Exactly my point on why some people wouldn’t care for getting a faster vehicle if they have a TLX Type S. (The same reason why you don’t care for having the faster RS5.) The TLX Type S is clearly not the vehicle for you, just like the RS isn’t.

I never compared a Type S to an RS5. You said that if someone had a $55k to spend, they automatically had the funds to buy something with a higher price tag. “People looking at German brands already have the budget to go higher than the type-S.” Don’t care about brand appeal, just want a vehicle that does want I want.

MarcoTLX

They really are I’m seeing Acura put out Customer Loyalty incentives placed on the new MDX Type-S cars at various dealers in my area lol they finally learning that not a lot of people are willing to shell out ~$70k for a Acura (not to mention the ADM that are being placed on them)

one dealership has a $2000 customer loyalty cash incentive on MDX-S

fiatlux

Watching the dealerships have to mark down these cars is sweet sweet schadenfreude.

leomio2.0

And, judging by the comments on the TH video, the masses are quite disappointed and critical with what Nissan has brought to market. They're not making excuses for the car. Referencing a car that doesn't meet expectations to trump up another vehicle that also fell far from expectations is like when I hear NY Giants fans talk about how terrible the NY Jets are. Y'all both suck.

richii0207

I wasn’t aware that Type S’s are supposed to be track weapons now. Surprised it ran quicker lap times than a Golf R though. Someone expecting the TLX Type S to be a track car is like someone expecting to tow a 8000 lbs boat with a Corolla. People have the wrong perspective on what the car is for. One needs to understand what the car was meant for before they criticize.

What did you expect from the TLX Type S?

h0ckeyman

Totally agree. Dont understand why TH was disappointed by the Type S, being a big luxury car outpaced even a Golf R. That seems like a very good time for a car like this.

KrylonBlue

I am guessing it’s because Acura had reviewers test the car at Laguna Seca with higher end brakes and tires rather than normal driving scenarios. The image of such a thing, along with the over the top commercials, would cause this confusion.

I went in to buying a Type S with tempered expectations. It was always a street legal sports sedan that performs well for the money. It was never going to be any track monster.

Kense

So what is the Type S for then because several of you are in another thread talking about Downpipes, Quarter mile times, Tunes, Piggybacks and other things to make the car faster. Which is it? You're not a "Stop light racer and the car is plenty fast" or you want downpipes, tunes and performance parts to the make the car faster? Which is it?

h0ckeyman

It's versatile. That's exactly what it is and it's damn good at being just that. I can take my family and kids on a road trip in a comfy cruiser and I can also hit a back mountain road and have fun.

richii0207

I don’t think any of us were saying that we wanted to turn our cars into track cars if that is what you’re asking. But some of you are saying “I don’t want an M3/RS5 because I don’t care about the speed” but then can’t understand why someone would want TLX Type S over a faster car because they don’t care about being faster. Didn’t you buy an JB4 for your car to try to be as fast as an M3? Why not just get the faster one. Which one is it?

Then when several of say “faster and better mileage” but then dismiss the M3P for not being your “preference”. Now all of a sudden, it’s about preference. Double standard much?

Why does it seem to offend so many of you when you see owners enjoying their car? You have the typical complainers who are non-owners and those who actually own, or even driven the car who seem to enjoy it. Complainers come here looking to achieve something by showing numbers a ten year old can read in a magazine or make it seem that Acuras marketing team is a part of the forums.

I only mentioned 1/4 times with aftermarket parts because someone was inquiring about the aftermarket support and potential. I’m keeping mine stock.

It’s actually cute though when some sound like they got their first big paycheck and off of a sudden their hotshots because they have their first “quick” daily driver.

leomio2.0

Nobody was saying it's supposed to be a track weapon, but neither are the Z or the Golf R. That being said, the post was to address the point specifically brought up by my quoted post that cites the Type-S fared just as well (or bad) as the Z, so the performance wasn't "that bad."

Additionally, I know it's not quite apples to apples, but the current gen Golf R made it around VIR in C&D's test 2.4s quicker than the TLX-S. This is more in line with what I'd expect a lighter "hot hatch" with comparable power to do compared to a premium performance sedan on a track. Silver lining, the TLX-S pulled more G's by both C&D and MT in their testing compared to the Z, and the exact same times for the figure-8 by MT.

richii0207

Lap times for cars will be shuffled based on track characteristics, whether it’s a high or low speed track and so forth.

The Golf R was developed with track racing in mind just like how the CTR is. Which is why the golf is $44k 😳

The Z is a performance-oriented 2-seater. The problem with the Z is that people automatically think a product is bad just because another product exists.

Kense

There's nothing in my post that mentions track cars. You said "Stop Light Racers" and "who cares about going fast to the next stop light" I was asking if you don't care why do you care about trying to add performance? I never said anything about trying to make my car as fast as an M3 I said in a straight line it is with a Jb4 but that's where it ends. I got my car because it's a daily but fast and I want a fast comfortable Daily. I don't go to the track but I do race at the drag strip and occasionally on the street. So speed matters to me because I enjoy back roads and going fast. I also don't like quiet Electric Cars I like the sound of a growling engine and exhaust so a Tesla is out of the question considering the sound is part of the driving experience. I've driven a Type S so I'm not sure why you're assuming I haven't, because I don't own one? I had a 1.5 hour test drive while the MDX was in for service.

I've notice you're on edge again, you always come off as argumentative and uptight and angry. You're constantly going at it with people on this forum who have something to say about the TLX it's weird. I'm not loyal to any brand In fact I'm on Club Lexus too because I was considering the IS500 at one point just like I was the TLX. Get over yourself and stop pretending to be the the brand ambassador for Acura .

richii0207

I’m on edge for answering to your post? Don’t mistaken my lengthy responses for anger, I’m merely pointing out your double standards and contradictions. Perhaps I may seem angry towards you, but if this seems like an anger tone to you, don’t go outside.

Just to point out another false statement, I never said anything about wanting to add speed to my Type S.

I know it seems repetitive when you see the same responses of mine here. That’s solely because the same people are beating a dead horse with a stick because of all the imaginary owners of Type S posting about how the Type S’s are track cars. Repetitive comments deserve repetitive responses.

You shouldn’t call anyone that doesn’t want to join the anti-Acura crusade a fanboy or Acura ambassador. You know what would sound like an ambassador or fanboy? Someone going on another brand forum and boasting about how fast their car is and then get touchy when they get called out on it. Sounds familiar?

dmski

Ok, so on the track Type S is pretty much dead even with the much lighter and more powerful Z, faster than Genesis G70 way faster than Stinger and just behind IS500 which pushes close to 500 hp and you are still here whining about it. Don't see you complaining about the othes in the same class.

leomio2.0

Though it may have sporting track pretentions, it's nowhere near as track focused as the CTR. The AWD and nicer interior are why it's $44k. If it weren't for the horrid interior layout, I'd take the Golf R 10/10 for my personal use. It doesn't ride as harsh, better road isolation, seats I can actually fit in (I presume) and more usable power on the street thanks to the AWD. Launching a FWD car is just an exercise in futility.

bilirubin

Since you brought up VIR, the Type S edged out the Genesis G70 twin-turbo, and beat the Stinger GT by 5 seconds at VIR. Both of which are well-acclaimed cars and have a power-to-weight advantage over the Acura..
So if you're saying the Type S = NY Giants, Nissan Z = NY Jets, what does that make the G70 and Stinger?

Flapjackura

It's the principal of the thing. It is baffling to me how it would be decided that a luxury car like the Integra, at any trim level would not include a feature that is standard now on many non luxury branded cars. My 2016 Accord Coupe had Homelink and it was not even a top trim level. It's a head scratching decision that is a major - and in my opinion - key indicator of what is wrong with Acura. The Integra looks like a great car otherwise - why did they have to hobble it by not including a basic and inexpensive feature? Leaving out cooled seats - which I believe it does - makes a helluva lot more sense.

ESHBG

I think that the Integra is missing quite a bit when you take into consideration what it is/what it is supposed to be and when compared across and down. No Homelink, no built in Navi, no rear seat vents...

Tesla1856

No HomeLink is rather bizarre.

No built-in Nav (with paid Subscription) is understandable as long as it has CarPlay/AA capabilities.
It should also have a way to check it's status/lock/un-lock with a phone App. (cheap or free subscription is fine).

I wonder if it has surround-view cameras and folding mirrors (on highest Trim).