Hexaform

I'll say it's easy for me to like this car. Neither Stinger or G70 particularly appeal to me in the looks department either by comparison. And I can certainly agree it's very interesting to see the TLX managed slightly faster lap-times in spite of its weight deficit, and Front Wheel bised AWD. Once again, I greatly appreciate what they did for its platform. Certainly not the fastest, but a great option even against its competitors in the handling department.

Nexx

I mean that's nice and all but the new S class interior blows your interior away imho. Does that make your vehicle less of a luxury car?

Hexaform

I may not be the owner of that fine 5-Series, but I must say it holds up as a luxury car as any other does at this point. Better? Probably, everyone's got a preference for user experiences and layout. All that matters is finding the one you like, and how much money you'd like to spend to get there. Which, I suppose is the idea you're arguing for in this instance.

richii0207

I agree with leather seats being a part of luxury. The ventilated leather seats in the TLX are amazingly comfortable. Adding the ELS audio and TJA to the mix makes for a very luxurious and comfortable daily commuter.

mike03a3

Yes, the S-Class has a great interior, but clearly you have not experienced the difference between the S-Class's NAPPA leather and the extended Merino Leather of my 5er. (The Nappa is actually a lower grade for my M550)
Pause and consider the writing on the wood. That interior was custom done as a special order.

richii0207

I’m pretty sure Nexx wasn’t specifically talking about your car having leather seats, which is pretty much a standard in the segment, but rather the S class having a more luxurious interior overall.

bilirubin

Is this the TLX vs competition thread?
I wouldn't consider the S-class nor a special order 5 series a direct competitor to the TLX. Although in terms of power and weight, the 540i xDrive is pretty close to a TLX Type S, and the 530i to the TLX 2.0T. The S-class would be a segment above the RLX, let alone the TLX.

mike03a3

If he was merely comparing the S-Class to a 5 I would have not objected to the notion the S is overall more luxurious if for no other reason than the fact that the proper comparison would be between the S and a 7 series. But that's not what he said:

That was most certainly about my interior.

On the contrary, everyone who has actually seen and touched my interior, from the techs who prepared it at the port to the dealership employees who viewed it when it was delivered have exclaimed what a wonderful interior it is.

Tony Pac

Very relevant comparisons lol

Acura got the best forum and members

pyrodan007

Acura considers the 5 series a fair comparison. Maybe not the 540/M5 ... but I guess that's where the Type-S comes in. Acura loves to pick and choose, comparing a 530 with a loaded TLX Advance.
https://www.acura.com/compare/bmw-530i-vs-acura-tlx

The message they display is also very bold, they picked the fight:

mike03a3

Well, it kinda, sorta, worked out that way.
We've owned Honda Products since our 1988 Accord. My wife currently drives a Pilot.
I bought an Acura TL Type-S 6MT back in 2007. I loved that car. It handled well and looked great. In reviews it compared favorably to the BMW 530i. The only real knock was FWD vs RWD in the BMW and other competitors.

So fast forward to the new TLX Type-S. After years of anticipation (and more than a little hype) my dealer called to tell me he had one I could drive. I drove to the dealer that day with my wife, checkbook at hand, fully expecting to purchase a new Type-S. In the end I passed on the new Type-S. While I generally liked it, the handling was excellent and the interior and exterior were nice, but it just didn't reach out and grab me. The engine pulled well, until it ran out of breath and the transmission short-shifted. I guess I was spoiled to some degree by the higher redline and willing pull all the way to the rev limiter in the '07. And the weight! 500 to 600 pounds really can be felt.
Then there was the size and proportions. Like a 3 series interior in a 5 series body, with a pointlessly long nose. Add in that the color combinations were relatively few with the ones I liked only available on a 4-cyl TLX. The final straw was the lack of some modern tech that is practically ubiquitous today, e.g. 360 degree cameras, heads up display etc.

I'm not a hater, I'm a 34 year Honda/Acura fan that thinks the new Type-S is a fine car in many ways but found it lacking in some others.

In the end my wife and I drove to a BMW dealer, where I drove a BMW 5 series for the first time, based largely on the same exterior size but a bit roomier on the inside. We drove a 540i, which we really liked. After a couple of months of waffling we decided on a BMW. Then, my OCD kicked in, and considering this might very well be my last ICE of any brand, I decided to get a beast in the form of an M550 and throw more money at custom paint and interior.

richii0207

You are showing a link comparing the 530i to the TLX. Someone was talking about his M550i. Bilirubin is not wrong with his statement, they are not in the same segment. Unless you think an M550i and a 530i are the same.

You also like to price out vehicles to compare prices as seen in your previous posts here. Do you think a “priced out” M550i costs the same as a TLX Type S($55k)?

pyrodan007

I agree that a M550i is not the same as a 530i. But the only point I was trying to make is Acura has no problems "crossing the beams" with the 5 series when it suits it's purpose. So comparing the M550 interior/exterior dimensions can be done. But true that interior luxury or engine specs cannot be compared.

Regarding the price, if the base price is much higher, then Acura should not compare the TLX at all versus the 5 series (or any Germans for that matter). But that's another discussion, since then the TLX would have zero competition when matching spec to spec (price, segment, engines, options). Well maybe 1.5: Stinger (incorrect segment), G70 (incorrect dimension).

richii0207

The purpose of them to compare is to show clients that a vehicle with the same features can be obtained at a lower price. I’m not sure what you’re referring to when you say “any Germans” car or “German car shoppers” (in your previous posts). Do you really think German products and shoppers are on another level compared to other markets?

Car shoppers have a budget, regardless if they are a “German car shopper” or an “Acura shopper”. Do you know how many people go back and forth between different car brands from different countries?

pyrodan007

So do you use price or features to help shopping for customers? You keep on mentioning price is better for features. Based on price, nothing compares against the TLX for exact specs. But when models have better features but cost more within relative range, it's automatically a biased win for the TLX because of price. Yet Acura can compare competitor's base 530 model against the most expensive TLX trim, which not all can afford due to budget. I find it odd Acura can use whatever to compare, but if a M340 or IS500 is named, it's automatically way too much even if it's a similar price difference to 530i and TLX advance.

richii0207

I’m not sure where you’re getting at. At what point would you consider a similar price? $10k, $15k, $20k?

The “most expensive TLX” trim, fully loaded, is still less expensive than the most basic 530i without features. That’s like comparing a fully loaded S5 versus an RS5. You even said yourself the price significantly changes when you “spec it out”.

Another thing, I’m not sure how you can compare an M340i which costs ~$15k more when similarly equipped. If anything, a similarly equipped 330i costs nearly identical to the Type S. For the IS500, it’s RWD only…and starts at $10k more.

pyrodan007

You see, you do the exact same thing as Acura and cookie cut only the comparison that makes it work in Acura's favor. My price range stopped at ~15k, but you keep on mentioning the RS5. So same with the M550, it can't be included. The highest trim TLX is also missing features so it's naturally cheaper, works both ways. The charts that Acura's trying to show is usually done with the lowest trim levels to see what you get "for free". They instead neuter the competition to make the TLX look good.

The TLX only competes with the TLX when price/features/dimensions have to align, making it an impossible comparison without modifying either. It's not a best bang for the buck when a few quarters are missing (options, hybrid, mileage, exterior size, rear space, performance, etc).

The TLX is also the size of a boat versus others in it's range, so that's also enough to cut it out of people's list. BTW, the base 530 is also 10k more but Acura still included it.
Many seem to buy the TLX for it's looks, but I'm sure it has anti-sales due to it's weird exterior size.

richii0207

There’s no “cookie cutting” about it when one vehicle is in another price bracket similarly equipped.

Why do you keep obsessing over Acura’s website? Are you having a discussion with me or their marketing team?

pyrodan007

Ditto, why do you care what people compare the TLX to? I see you flip flop whenever it's not in your favor.

Considering the TLX's characteristics, using only Acura's MSRP as sole factor is limiting the competition to one product. Acura's own marketing team doesn't even follow this.

richii0207

I’d say I am the last person to be flip flopping.
Flip flopping would be someone comparing to a car that’s $15k more but then saying they didn’t get another car because it was $15k more. Or saying “German car buys have no budget” and then not opting to get the higher trim for cost reasons.

If price isn’t a way to compare, then why not compare an S class or a 7 series while we’re at it. Where do you draw a line on what is and what’s not a competitor? Again, you are having a discussion with me and not the person in charge of Acura’s website marketing. People tend to deflect the argument and fallback on “Acura marketing”.

Tesla1856

I noticed that too.

While some guys are completely "money is no problem" and just want to absolute best version ...
I think most people buy a S5 (V6 PP or Prestige) and add any packages still missing that they "must have".

It's like wanting a Mustang, but only looking at a Shelby or Cobra ... IIRC, the "RS" cars are built by "Audi Sport GmbH" and sold to Audi (who in turn, sell to customers around the world).

richii0207

Exactly my point when I say nearly everyone has a price range in mind. I only keep mentioning RS5 with him since he has an S5 BTW which would be the vehicle upgrade for him within the same line. Whether it’s built by some other plant (PMC or ASG) or not, it wouldn’t make it any more “special” on the road and is just marketing.

pyrodan007

But I already upgraded to the S5, so why would I jump even higher? Did you ever look at the NSX when shopping for an Acura? It's an "upgrade". Or the MDX Type-S, why not that upgrade too. If you say different type of vehicle, well guess what ... so is the RS5.

richii0207

Actually, I will be replacing my CTR with an NSX coincidentally.

dmski

You made it sound like people who drive German cars "made it" and budget is not even considered. Oh I can get an RS5 or M5 but let me just settle here for an S5. There's a reason why C class or 3 series are dime a dozen here in Toronto. They're literally the German Civic because every Joe blow can afford it. M5 RS5 not so much.

sombasol

The problem is that its kinda in its own little bracket. Its most direct cost as equipped comparitives would be the genesis, and cadillac CTS-V (not black wing), and possibly the S4. the M340I, C43, is500, S5 similarily spec’d would be about an additional 16-25%. Is350, 330, a5 and c300’s are all much closer to the type S when spec’d the same. The assessment that you can buy lower spec’d M340i or whatever models for only slightly more then the type S is hogwash because no one is poverty spec’ing these cars. Your looking at an extra 8-10g minimum.

At what point is a vehicle no longer comparible? that would depend on the buyer. In my case i stretched my budget to get in to a type S. An extra 15% would not have been an option.

its been well established that the original type S marketing was trash. someone approprietly photo shopped a jet in as a comparison to the type S in an early post because it used the same principals. You can always say we are better at this thing or that thing but it doesnt make it a better vehicle. They should have leaned in to the fact that its price point is very good for what youre getting, not reach to try and seem like its better then vehicles that are rightfully more expensive.

fiatlux

I’m honored that someone remembered by photochop job

bilirubin

Agreed. Black, silver, and white 330i's and C300's are everywhere where I am, even delivering pizzas (not that there's anything wrong with that). A 330i or C300 similarly optioned with what you get standard on a TLX Type S retails a lot closer to the Acura than an equally equipped M340i or C43. While the Type S doesn't match the M340i's performance numbers, considering it absolutely blows away a similarly priced 330i, it doesn't have to.

leomio2.0

This took me way too long to find, but well worth it. Probably the funniest post in the history of Acurazine:

Legend2TL

considering how many German cars are leased quite often to people who couldn't afford them to purchase outright. That's the pillar of BMW leasing program to get lower income consumers into their vehicles.

richii0207

Lmao, I didn’t picture you as a graphic designer fiat! The important question is, does it come with GPS? I really don’t feel like buying a phone mount just for a Lockhead.

Flapjackura

If Lockheed's decision making is anything like Acura's maybe no Homelink on F35 or F22 base models.

pyrodan007

Have you not read my entire comments so far? When did I say budget is not entirely concerned? I specifically mention the RS5 is way over mine. It's the other member that kept on saying budget was of no concern so keep on going higher and get an RS5. There's a difference between a 10-15k difference and 30-40k+.

I said MSRP is no concern to some since not even Acura follows it closely. But to say get anything, yeah no. Hence why I agreed M550 is not included as a competitor.

Legend2TL

There's not even Link16 on a F-22A

richii0207

Here you go. Putting German car buyers on a pedestal.

I mentioned the upper trim for your car because you have the “why not” budget.

Hexaform

As far as buying demographic is concerned, this could go anywhere. Fact of the matter is you have to look at everything, a person's brand loyalty, previous purchases if any, and a plethora of other details that even then aren't certain to guarantee that they'll be a buyer. Sure we have our stereotypes but those aren't indicative of the whole, let alone the people that drive their enthusiast vehicles. It's all just, anecdotes. Fact of the matter is each and every one of these vehicles are compromised in ways that would turn off most people from buying to begin with. What each automaker's trying to do meanwhile is find the mix of engagement, performance and comfort while also delivering it as reasonable of a price as they possibly can to make their sale and keep buyers happy. "We want everything for nothing", and "it has to be everything for everyone" is usually the term I hear alot in this instance. Focusing on the buyers in this instance doesn't make sense, because in some respect they want this car to grab as many people as possible regardless of their walk of life (assuming they can afford it now!)

This vehicle, to me, is an interesting choice, because it makes some of the weirdest compromises for the sake of performance and style, despite not being the fastest outright. It's platform has a better suspension setup than most of its rivals, and so is its chassis, but it has less interior space than its exterior class lets on, and is a heavyweight. Its engine while not as thoroughly powerful as its rivals, is torquey, and does well to make up for for that weight deficit. Despite it's incredibly impressive AWD system, it being based off a FWD architecture writes it off from most people, no matter how well it will actually handle. Its engine seems quite impressive to me, and despite its relatively pedestrian roots, it's evident they did alot to balance the output with being able to go the distance, and to have it suit the rest of the vehicle's characteristics. It carries its own character, distinct from its rivals. Worse? I really don't think so. Less luxurious? Not at all, it feels about as nice as any other luxury car in its price point, if not nicer I'd argue. Whether the engine truly holds up, or the interior bits and pieces, I've yet to see for certain. One thing I'm sure of is this vehicle left an impression on me. It probably isn't the best in the metrics people froth at the mouth over, but seeing people claim it a failure, and some of the related discussions surrounding it don't entirely make sense to me.

MarcoTLX

heard Lockheed doesn’t have Apple CarPlay compatibility plus you can’t change the Mach Diamond color when you switch flight (drive) modes so I can’t justify buying one

pyrodan007

If someone could barely afford the TLX, odds are they're not looking at anything else. Including all comparisons done by Acura. Like I said, Acura is firing marketing in all directions to make people look at the TLX. That 15K difference is also highly subjective to what you want in the car and options that matter. Some of the standard options in the TLX can also be a major turn off.

Flapjackura

I think Acura's marketing and a discussion comparing the TLX vs. the competition are topics that do go together to a degree. Part of marketing's job is to compare competitors products to one's own in a favorable light without resorting to outright falsehood. How well Acura does this without being blatantly phony is a very relevant point to make here. Of course Acura's marketing people are going to say the TLX is the absolute best choice to make vs an Audi or BMW or Stinger, or G70 or whatever. How well they really justify that claim is the big debate, so enthusiasts are going to fall back on real world numbers like performance figures. How important things like 0 to 60 times are to buyers is where the subjectivity comes in. This is where the marketing people step in, to put a positive spin on an objectively negative comparison point. Really when marketing comes into a discussion like this, it needs to also include the general buying public and what they choose to believe and do. If marketing makes a claim that the TLX is superior to, say, a Genesis G70, it's not their fault if the buying public agrees with their claims and votes with their wallets, it's actually their goal to achieve this and in that way they are actually doing a great job. So don't blame Acura's marketing, blame Joe Public.

jjsC5

Leather is becoming less and less standard in luxury vehicles. You’d be surprised how many 5 series are selling without leather.

I bought my wife a new Lexus RX350 about nine months ago. We had it for several months before I told her it did not have leather. Her response was “good, less animals are dying”. She did not know it was not leather. And in our 30 years of marriage I’ve bought her many cars and this is the first without leather.

MB has sold many of its models with “MB Tex” fake leather for a long time.