ESHBG

RIP to more sedans

Hyundai Sonata, Kia Stinger, And K5 To Be Axed In The US: Report

The Sonata will apparently be discontinued globally at the end of the current generation's life cycle.

https://www-motor1-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.motor1.com/news/587921/sonata-stinger-k5-axed-us/amp/?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D

pyrodan007

^^ Unless they start dumping hybrids/EVs in all crossovers/SUV starting next year, I have absolutely no interest in owning 2+ gas guzzling space monsters ... this goes for all car companies. Make sedans more functional.

Acura TL Builder

People are now thinking of dumping the loans they got on their massive trucks and SUVs for a sedan.

Everyone and their mom went out and got a gas guzzler.

Lacking was thier memory of what happened when everyone went out to get gas guzzlers between 2003-2008? Used lots Full of unselling gas guzzlers? You couldnt pay people to buy them. Anyone remember Cash for Clunkers(guzzlers)?

We haven't even began the next recession.

Tesla1856

Thanks. Yes I suppose that would explain it.

But no ... I'm doing any of that (sounds like a simulated Launch Control to me) .

I'm just flooring the accelerator (and starting the stop-watch) ... from either a stop or a 5-mph roll. I click stop watch again when speedometer says 60 .

Took the wife's 2020 Q5-e Hybrid in for it's yearly service. Still has less than 5000 miles.
They have some new cars, but mostly (nice, clean, CPO) used ones.
Sat in a RS e-Tron GT sedan ... just wow.

ESHBG

I love sedans but they are pretty impractical in many ways. But I also don't have a need for a large SUV and even with most crossovers I just don't care for the driving dynamics, so it leaves me in an odd spot. A hatchback or liftback would be a great option but that severely cuts down on my choices.

fiatlux

You're saying you got 2s with your stopwatch using a normal takeoff? You might need a new stopwatch.

Tesla1856

No, I'm not saying that either.

Nevermind ...

Tony Pac

It's kinda sad but Stinger was deemed to get axed from day one as the sales numbers are beyond low. But I am surprised about Sonata. Accord and Camry are still the doing well.

MarcoTLX

same here no need for an SUV, at most I’d consider a crossover like the RDX but even then I still think that’s more space than I’d need. I like the look of a sedan and that they can be smaller and more sports car oriented depending on the brand that’s offering a sedan

JM2010 SH-AWD

Agree. I just don't like the size, mpg and the "tippy" feeling of driving an SUV. The RDX is the first one I've driven that I'd consider. With AWD, it feels pretty light on its feet, and its CG is not so high that it feels like it wants to flip on its side on curvy roads. MPG is still a downside, however.

fiatlux

The fuel efficiency difference is overblown. A 2mpg difference on the highway for the RDX vs the TLX is not going to amount to much in the grand scheme of things. If you drive 10K highway miles a year, and if gas is $6/gallon, that's only $150/year. For folks buying $45K cars, that's likely not a material difference. And realistically for most people the cost difference is even smaller seeing as how they get identical city MPGs.

ESHBG

A redesigned Accord is coming out this Fall also. And if the new Pilot and the other Honda models are any indication, it may just take a bit of TLX sales away.

Maybe for highway but it is a huge difference for us all city drivers and many RDX drivers are getting 15-17 mpg, that's abysmal.

fiatlux

Does the TLX do any better in the city? It’s more aerodynamic so that helps for highway, but that doesn’t do squat in the city. City driving is more impacted by weight; the TLX weighs about the same as the RDX and unsurprisingly the EPA rating in the city is the same.

Tesla1856

Agreed.

Hey, so how are you liking your 2020 V60 T8 Polestar Engineered Hybrid ( a few years into ownership now). Are you planning on keeping it?

My brother is thinking of buying a new Polestar-2 full-EV sedan. Probably the cheaper FWD one with the single-motor.

fiatlux

It's been a little under two years, but so far I have no regrets and only a couple minor quibbles. Compared to the TLX, which itself isn't a bad car, I've definitely enjoyed owning the Volvo more.

First, let me just saw that mechanically the TLX has been pretty good. Electrics had a few hiccups; one of the key fobs stopped working, had a grounding issue that resulted in limp mode, and the battery died in under 3 years. None of those have been dealbreakers, but the Acura dealership experience was less than stellar. Volvo isn't that great either compared to the rest of the luxury field, but so far it's been pretty good, they've always been responsive to any of my concerns, and most importantly they seem to want to make things right. The Acura dealerships I've gone to have defaulted to blaming the problem on the customers first and don't seem interested in customer retention. I've had two minor things that needed to be fixed on the Volvo, and both were resolved with a software update. Both times, and for the 3 free service visits, I got loaners without a problem. With Acura it was 50/50.

Fit and finish wise the Volvo has been near perfect which puts it above the TLX. My TLX had a misaligned fuel door, misaligned sunroof gasket, and taillights with pretty noticable uneven gaps. There just doesn't seem to be much attention to detail or quality control in Ohio. However, there's been no rattles or creaks in either (60K miles on the TLX, 35K miles on the Volvo), so build quality seems like a wash.

Interior wise the Volvo wins hands down. Both in terms of material choice and design, it's right up there with the Germans. Nothing on the Acura feels cheap, but nothing on it feels luxury quality either. It's firmly premium, which is exactly where the car is positioned, so that's that. I have no real complaints about the TLX interior other than some blanks (there isn't a single blank on my Volvo), but the Volvo is still by far the nicer car to be in. The only quibble I have with the Volvo interior is that the window switches and sunroof button feels cheap. I think it might actually be the same parts used in older Ford-era Volvos. Aside from that, everything else feels properly luxury.

The gas engine and transmission is probably the weakest part of the Volvo. The supercharged and turbocharged 2.0L sounds coarse and unrefined, and is nowhere near as smooth as other 2.0Ts. Nobody makes a 4-banger quite like Honda. Fortunately though I don't have to rely on the gas engine thanks to the electric motor. As for the transmission, the 8DCT is much more responsive. The Aisin 8AT in the Volvo is smooth, but slow to respond and there's a noticable dip in power between 1st and 2nd gear shifts. When there's battery power available, the ISG will fill in during that shift so it's not noticable, but when the battery is flat it's very noticable. What's strange is that the T6 models that don't have the electric motor but the same gas motor and transmission doesn't exhibit this behavior.

Performance, the Volvo wins hands down but that should be no surprise, since it has double the power. Brakes are much better too; the blended regenerative/friction brakes is nice and smooth. I would imagine the Polestar's blended braking system would be just as good.

Comfortwise on the road I'd give the nod to the TLX. Its ride is more supple, and it's quieter. The Volvo does handle better, but the steering is numb and uncommunicative even if it's more competant, and it rides a lot stiffer, even with the dampers set up for comfort. The TLX is a great highway cruiser; the Volvo is merely a good highwayd cruiser.

Tech and features wouldn't be a fair comparison since the Volvo is about 5 years newer, so it's not surprising that it soundly bests the TLX. The B&W sound system is tops, it has a digital dash, the infotainment is pretty quick and responsive, the ACC and Pilot Assist works pretty well, and it has everything I can ask for. The only change I wish is for the BLIS to have an audible alert; unlike the TLX that beeps, the alert is only a flashing light on the mirror. That said, the TLX features and tech feel dated; infotainment is old, rear view cam is low vis, etc. But again, it's older. However, there are a few things that have annoyed me with the TLX because it's a constant reminder that it was built to a price point. First, no Carplay/AA. Most of the competition had it at that point, and hell even Hondas had it. Secondly, no keyless access door sensors for the rear doors. It couldn't possibly have cost them that much to add those in, and the omission is just a reminder that Acura left it out to cut costs. Thirdly, the parking brake doesn't automatically engage when you turn off the car. Really wish they would have added that in since it wouldn't have cost anything extra since it's just simple software programming.

Practicality has been very good, even excluding it being a wagon. The amount of passenger space is better than the TLX even though it's a smaller car. One annoyance though is that there's basically no center console storage; it's about 1 inch deep because the battery takes up the entire space.

Looks are subjective, but I still think it's one of the best looking cars on the road today. Usually cars starting losing its luster for me after about a year of ownership; in this case I still very much like the car and unless the dealership starts dropping the ball or things start falling apart, I think I'll continue liking it for many years to come.

ESHBG

But real world? I haven't seen the 15-17 MPG complaints with the TLX like I have with the RDX regularly and when looking at fuel tracking sites the TLX is doing much better.

fiatlux

Looking at fuelly, the reported combined MPGs for the RDX is 21.2-21.8 vs 22.2 for the TLX. Which fuel tracking site are you looking at where the TLX does much better?

ESHBG

If looking at fuelly dig into the individual numbers from owners and also check out Reddit threads where folks are discussing and tracking. For me the averages and highway numbers are useless, as I am now a 98% city commuter and can go long stretches without seeing highway speeds; I actually need to seek out a highway drive if I want one now (hence the 2% part of my figure).

You drove a TLX, correct? What was your commute like and MPG?

mapleloaf

I believe he has a 2016 TLX 2.4. My 2016 and 2018 2.4 TLXs had good fuel economy, around its 10.0 litres/100 km rating in the city, and excellent highway fuel economy, around 7.0 litres/100 km, or better. My current 2021 TLX with the 2.0 turbo and heavier weight adds another 10 percent fuel consumption to those numbers.

F23A4

Looks like Sam is moving on from his 500:

richii0207

The man is so obsessed with acceleration. He should just get an electric car and call it a day. The IS500 is a great car, he just had bad luck with his IS having one issue after.

fiatlux

All those issues he had couldn't happen to a better man. Karma is a bitch for calling the RC-F "slow as fck", suggesting a Type S could smoke it, and then going out and buying what's effectively the same car.

F23A4

Absolutely. Even my 40kwh (aka 147hp base powertrain) Nissan LEAF leaves many cars in the dust off the line, largely as it's 236 lb-ft kicks in right away...and really doesnt lose steam until around 80mph. (Lost count of how many GTIs I've infuriated in stoplight to stoplight (read < 1/8 mile) runs.) I've actually entertained running it against my TLX (and record it) just to see/report what comes up.

If only Tesla could get the QC program in order, the Model 3 performance winds up being the offering of choice (to me) in this segment.

KrylonBlue

I had to drive my girlfriends KIA Soul today and she told me not to abuse the car. I’m not sure what abuse she was speaking of because slamming the gas doesn’t do a thing. 🤣

I did see that the Soul does come in an electric model now. I don’t think she would ever consider one moving forward as she wants an Acura RDX next but I was surprised to see the Soul EV the other day. The EV badge was crooked so I had thought the driver slapped it on the back as I thought the car didn’t exist. 😅

fiatlux

Only the first gen was sold in the US, and it was very much a compliance car as evidenced by its ~100 mile range and exceedingly slow acceleration. IIRC 0-60 is in the 10 second range

KrylonBlue

Ah, okay. That makes sense. I didn’t realize the actual performance and efficiency were so poorly implemented.

tsxV6

Were you beating people who weren't racing? A 7.4 second to 60 isn't going to dust any GTI, Civic SI, or a Fist/Fost. Let's get back to the claim, why would a GTI want to even consider racing a Leaf? If the GTI was actually "racing" it wouldn't be a race. GTI's stock are just under 6 to 60. I'm calling BS all day on this one.

tsxV6

You buy that car because it has a V8, sounds great, and should be reliable. Sam had a bad egg which happens to all car companies. The IS500 just feels dated with the drivetrain and the fuel economy is terrible.

The crazy thing is Toyota offers the Supra aka Z4 which is much quicker and can still bring home impressive mpgs. Reliabilty is definitely sus but if Toyota is comfortable putting the engine in their car it had to pass some sort of reliability tests, but all the BMW fan boys rave about the B58. It's a shame all these car brands appear to be hitter their stride in offering performance, sound, and improved reliability right at the time of the big push for EVs.

F23A4

Lighten up Francis. It’s more about catching folks sleeping than having the faster car, and then being subjected to ricer fly bys.

Tony Pac

I am not surprised. As Canadian, I support him but his drag races are just too funny! He should be a Ferrari or Lambo and call it a day.

F23A4

Dialing down to the 2.0T level, I was just reading about MB's new C300 4Matic in Car & Driver yesterday:

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...c-class-drive/

Seems like it tested out with pretty respectable numbers for the entry level C and better than the advertised performance on MBUSA.

I wonder if MB is starting to go more the way of underrating as does BMW seeing as the power:weight of this is in line with the TLX 2.0T SH-AWD but produces better performance...or maybe the 2.0T just needs the Type S version of the 10AT.

fiatlux

The acceleration disparity is almost entirely due to the inability of the TLX to launch hard and get off the line. Looking at the numbers, the trap speeds are almost identical (97mph vs 98mph) which is a good sign that power-to-weight is similar. Also, the 5-60 numbers are almost identical as well (6.4s vs 6.5s). I don’t think it’s an issue with the 10AT; I think it’s more of a limitation of the SH-AWD system because we know that in both the RDX and TLX the ECU has to pull power in first gear whereas there’s no such issue with the same engine and transmission in the Accord.

bilirubin

Correct, IMO 5-60mph is a more useful metric for real-world use since most people are not using launch control or brake-torquing at a red light. So the all new C-class only being 0.1 seconds quicker than the TLX 2.0T is pretty good for Acura.

fiatlux

I agree, I've always said that the TLX feels faster than the 0-60 numbers would have you believe. Admittedly the car is a bit of a dog off the line, but once it gets going it actually pulls pretty well in the mid range. Top-end it does run out of steam, but overall I have no problems with the motor itself; it's the weight of the car and reduced power in lower gears that holds this car back in a straight line.

ELIN

While this may be true, the C300 4MATIC gets 33 mpg vs the TLX's 29 mpg on paper.


That's a $22 difference per fill up with my area's premium gasoline pricing. That's money I'll never see again every week (sometimes twice!).

fiatlux

I think that may need to redo your math. If you're paying an extra $22 per week, that comes out to $1144 per year. Even at $7 per gallon, that comes out to 163 gallons. If you're using that much more gas at 29mpg than 33mpg, you would need to be driving 39K miles per year (X/29 - X/33)*7 = 22*52, solve for X, X = 39,100.

Legend2TL

Interesting how close the two are in weight (both being AWD), and performance is relatively close in acceleration the TLX still lags in braking and skidpad. Cost is the one factor that's not close, as the MB has ~$17k in options and totals at ~$64k while a TLX Advance package is ~$50k so for very comparable options and performance the value proposition is still there for the 2G TLX.

leomio2.0

True for even the Type-S. In Throttle House's drag races, the TLX-S is handily beat by the G70 & Stinger cousins from a dig. From a roll, they only beat it by a car and a half, which can be chalked up to the TLX's comparative heft.

I think if Acura can work some of the NSX's magic into the next generation of Type-S's, they'll have a home run. Sport Hybrid with the existing 3.0T driving the front wheels and hybrid motor(s) driving the rear wheels. Or perhaps make this the Type-S+ variant. Depending on output, it could actually compete with the current top tier performance cars in the segment like the M's, AMGs and RS's of the world ... tho rumors have it that AMG and RS hybrid powerplants are going to be eclipsing 600+HP in their next iterations (and I'm sure BMW will follow suit), so then it would be back to typical Acura playing fiddle being late to the game.

The NSX's ICE powerplant made significantly more power than the current 3.0T (520HP v 355HP), so if they kept similar output of everything, you'd be looking in the 450-500HP range total if they added hybridization. Though, with the advancement of electric motors, and if Honda/Acura are brave enough to spin some more power out of the 3.0T, they could definitely be competing with Deutschland. And lest we forget, the Koreans aren't going to be resting on their laurels either. They're already ahead of the Japanese on their EV fleet.

MarcoTLX

This guy Maths

but forreal this makes sense and I doubt he’d be driving nearly 40k miles a year unless your commute to work is far and you work 5-6 days a week plus using it for other daily driver tasks.

ELIN

I messed up my dimensional analysis. Getting old…