Yeah it's about time that Nissan starts developing something newer. Kind of reminds me of the Frontier and Titan. Both trucks are in their 10th and 11th model years without a significant refresh/redesign. I do like them though.

I remember reading about that on edmunds.com I believe. I believe the Q50 is taking a slightly different approach than the G37 even though it's an evolved version of the G-series sedan with a different naming structure. Well, that's how I see it.

 

I have test driven more cars this year than ever. The Acuras are great. That RLX has upped it's quality on that interior. I imagine the same with the TLX. So I know it's going to be a good car. But it should be even better.

On Saturday I drove 4-series back to back with C350s, IS250 and an A5. I used to have a 5-series and had been frustrated that the Germans have lost that raw sporting edge they used to have. But they upped their game. These cars are all now more compliant but it all makes it a more comfortable and livable package. Performance is really on another level with the 435i, you just can't compare any Acura to it. It really looks more and more like I'm going to be going back to BMW.

Jags are picking up pace slowly, but unless you have driven that F-type, you won't see how far they have come. Different cat indeed and their cars will follow that direction. New XF in 2yrs. Perfect example of a company that is able to reinvent itself, yet not copy anyone, have the guts to be bold and offer products that are competitive in all ways. Their only problem is sales. Cadillac also forges ahead in their own bold direction, while remaining competitive in all categories. See you don't have to be a copycat.

It has been annouced that Infiniti is dropping it's Japanese design philosophy (which I thought was a great niche for itself, it could just be executed a bit better.) and chasing something more Latin and passionate (lol! what?). I don't know if that is a mistake but I hope that means they are going to stay different and bold and become a European copycat.

So back to Acura again. Red carpet athlete huh? I don't see one.

 

Seems to me that Hyundai is more aggressively going after the premier brands than Acura is.

 

Almost got sucked down that path again back in 2008 when I was shopping around. After my 1986 BMW experience (BMW standing for Big Money Waster) I swore never again. Then the 335i was introduced with piqued my interest. Luckily the price spooked me away (in the blink of an eye it was above $50K when you added a few options that were really necessities). By luckily I mean after only a few months I started reading about the issues with overheating and then the fuel pump failures.

If I was in the market these days for a sport oriented sedan that stood out, I would probably be looking for a couple of year old Supercharged XF or maybe even the CTS 2-door.

 

Well, Acura went from "red carpet athlete" to matadors, a human cannonball and William Tell, drone horses on a racetrack, and now "I sell cars, you sell you"... very confusing.

 

So if you are considering a 4 series, I assume you are only considering the SH-AWD Advance TLX. BMW are notorious for just adding up very quickly when you look to get one, thinking another easily 5-10G in options. Part of me likes being able to order all those options but the other part of me knows when looking at base price of a BMW that ain't what you end up with. They are handsome cars though and are quick. I think the new TLX SH-AWD is supposed to be pretty fast and handle awesomely, not to mention it will still be cheaper then a 4 series and without a doubt better reliability. Still those BMW lease offers tend to be pretty sweet.

Lots of good cars out there, nice to have options. I think Acura just offers a pretty complete blend of everything in this car for a good price (assuming they have a realistic price)....sorta a bang-for-buck premium ride. I expect the TLX to continue this. Is it perfect no, but then again no car is.

 

i do like how with brands like acura and infiniti you are basically getting the car fully equipped or mostly optioned out right up front whereas like you said brutustlx the Germans really like to do everything a la carte. which can get depressing really quick when you see the price jump.

 

Hard for me to deny that, but I think some of us will wind up in a Kia or Hyundai as they battle at the value market for people wanting German cars without paying the price. I think Kia is nuts to price the k900 where it is, but it looks liek a decent car. The new Genesis is the real sweet spot. $55K for loaded V8 that is comparable to a $70K+ German car. Sure they have not nailed the power train or ride as well as the Germans, but many will not care and eventually they will get there. The problem is the sibling rivalry between Kia/Hyundai is sending a mixed message. They are trying to compete with both brands instead of having a unified message and model line up. If you looks at the line up it almost goes :

Hyundai Azera
Kia Cadenza
Hyundai Genesis
Hyundai Equus
Kia K900

The 15 Genesis pretty much makes the Equus a bad deal on every level right now and the K900 offers much more and up to date tech and car.

 

I can relate to a lot of what you're saying. I am going to admit this openly. There is one thing I am a bit hippocritical about and I know it isn't right. When I bought my 540i I KNEW going in that I would be potentially putting up with reliability issues. But I loved the car so much I was willing to live with that tradeoff. I didn't complain, I looked at it like it was the price of admission. I ended up spending at least 4-6k in repairs on that car. When the tranny started acting up I said enough and got rid of it. Here' s the thing: I still LOVE the brand though. Most people would say "never again". But I said "I love the brand, once it is reliable again, I'll be back." It is not just hype, these cars really give you an emotional attachment. I love my TL, but in a different way.

Now people will throw rocks at me for saying that because I've been ranting lately about how I've now had issues with my TL tranny. It's because I bought this car with the expectation it wouldn't end up like the BMW. Because Acura has that reputation for not giving you issues. But to be fair, there really is no competition on that front. Overall the Acura still wins out, it has had FAR less problems than that old BMW any day.

My 2nd choice in 2006 was the 335i coupe. Just like you said optioned up version was north of $50k. So paying $20k less for the loaded TL was a no-brainer. The TL was the best value of 2006 bar none. No car had that combination of everything at that price at the time. I'm glad I didn't get that 335i because indeed it has had way worse problems as time went on (I'm hearing the real issues are the turbos on the early gen 335i. Only good news is that the company has covered/extended warranties on them.) than the tranny issues we have in the TL. But from what I am hearing in the last 2-3yrs, reliability is better with all the German brands, it just matters which car you are talking about. The more simple the car, the more reliable.

Indeed the XF is an under-rated car. It isn't all as cushy as it looks, that car can actually move. The package is full loaded and actually a value if you consider all it offers. There are some KILLER lease deals out there on it, that is the main reason I have been considering it. Love the styling and it is a rare sight on the road.

But on Saturday I was reminded that the gold standard is still the 3/4 series. They inch the bar ever slightly higher each generation but don't stray far from their formula. Still nobody can catch their magic and embody it all, it was very apparent in the comparo with the other cars. The main issue is that it is grossly overpriced. I'm just not sold on the new styling, particularly the grill meeting the headlight which looks . That is where the M235i nails it perfect with that classic BMW look. I have yet to drive it because there is never one available at the dealership, they fly off the lot. I will get a chance next month, let's see.

And I won't make a decision till I drive a TLX of course, just to give it the benefit of the doubt. But so far all inclinations are that I won't be going that direction and I'm not waiting around 2 more years expecting a Type-S.

 

There is no doubt at all that Hyundai and Kia have the best values in the car business. Look how far these brands have come in the last 5yrs alone. Amazing. I talked one of my close friends into go for a Kia Optima. I just said the TL was the best deal of 2006. I feel the same way about the Kia Optima today. So why wouldn't I go for one. Here is my issue, when you sit in it and you actually touch and feel the materials, it's just not there. Everything is kinda cheap and plasticky here and there. In that way Acura has spoiled me. The Optima is a great upgrade from a Civic or Corolla but it would really make me feel like I'd be going back wards and downgrading. Yea that is the snob in me talking but I can't help it. I can't deny it is not a good car though. It's great for commuting has low end pep. Although the steering has been criticized and it is not the best handling car out there, I find the steering PERFECT for city driving, even better than the TL.

The Genesis is a very obvious leap up and it does feel luxurious inside. But it just feels like an old man car. I feel younger in the Jag XF actually believe it or not. The Equus is really LS460 territory so that is.....old old man car, lol.

I know a lot of you out there like that K900, I am NOT feeling that car at all. I think they could have made that car a lot better. They really nailed the Optima but the Cadenza and K900 are both meh.

There is something about the rear of the Azera, the new Sonata and new Genesis that makes you notice. They did a really good job on those angles on the rear angle of these 3 cars. They look so different from photos and look good in person. I have yet to sit in one. But besides that none of them appeal to me. What Hyundai and Kia still lack are emotion. Still too safe and Toyotaish to me.

 

^ There is another kid on the block to consider... the Maserati Ghibli ! Black on Red or Red on Black. Not sure about performance or reliability, but eye candy galore!

PS. Just don't eject the CD while the gear selector is in "P" LOL

 

I agree with many of your Kia/Hyundai observations. Every one I have driven, including a vacation rental last week, had a patina of quality from 10 feet away, but once you drive them, you realize that they lack the refinement in materials, switch gear, linearity of throttle and brake response (a particular, recurring problem it seems) and overall engineering compared say, to a Honda product. They have come along way in a short time, but they're just not there yet.

 

Have you been in the 15 Genesis, it is leaps better than the old Genesis, materials are very good and the interiors is right out of the Audi A6/A8 playbook. I don't feel the old man styling in the 15 Genesis, the old Genesis I get more although that was a clear copy of the MB styling of the mid 2000's.

 

Quick question: Who actually here is an old person? Answer: No one.

Old is 80+.

BTW I really like this wealth of opinions/facts I've been reading. I'm learning something new almost daily. Thanks, everyone.

 

I too bought the TL with expectation it would have "BMW like issues." Bought it with expectation it would be reliable like my 05 TSX. Alas it has been anything but.

I've had issues with my tranny (3rd gear pop out causing me to grind when shifting from 2nd-3rd) that the dealership finally rebuild/replaced under warranty. 3rd gear no longer pops out, but I still have the occasional 1st-2nd "screech" the dealership cannot duplicate. Plus a continuous "diesel rumbling noise."

And I have an ongoing engine oil consumption issue, which the dealership has finally agreed to examine in detail after I complained to them numerous times and after wasting an absurd amount of my time doing the 1k mile consumption test and replacing a purportedly defective oil level sensor out of pocket (which to this day I believe it was not defective). I'll find out whether the dealership is going to fix said engine issue or not the next few days, or if they are still dinking around with me.

Transmission issue, engine issue, what's next? And I'm almost out of my power train warranty.

The 4G TL 6MT is a great value, rare mid size sedan with torque vectoring AWD and 300+ hp, and still looks fresh to boot despite its polarizing exterior. But with the constant issues I had and the dealership's crap service, it's pushing me over the edge. My thought process is, if I have to deal with so many issues, I might as well deal with it on a German make, one that actually looks good, has true sports driving dynamics, and something that I aspire to own. Why settle anymore?

I've said it before, the TLX better have dam good driving dynamics and look better/aggressive in person than it does in the pics for it to stand a chance for it to earn my business (the 2 new transmissions are a huge unknown in terms of questionable reliability).

If not, I will be in my last Acura. But at this point, I doubt Acura even cares about its fan base, and I'm not holding my breath a TLX type S will ever be released. Heck, Acura promised a RLX SH-SH-AWD release, and it's no where to be found. If a promised model is MIA, what makes me think an unmentioned fantasy model surmised from a few seconds in an interview will ever make it to production??

We shall all see within the next few months what the TLX has in store for us...

 

The best bet for me at BMW is in the CPO section of their lot. If you are looking for a 4-door 3 series or even 5 series they tend to run their loaner car into the CPO lot around 7-8K miles. Some even younger. There are savings to be had there and if you are not dead set on an exact configuration you can probably find a car that would meet your needs. Probably won't find a 4 series or 235 any time soon or at all.
- If Acura tries to price the TLX like the did the RLX they will just encourage shoppers to look to a BMW or Audi or MB and if the difference is only a few $K why not? If there are better bargains in the BMW CPO lot than in the Acura lot, then it is a hard sell. Only perceived reliability in on Acura's side but the Germans are getting better in this area.

The Optima looks good on paper but I've read poor reports of the service department refusing warranty claims. Service seems to be very inconsistent from dealer to dealer. They may have a long warranty of some parts but they seem to want to find reasons to not honor it.
- Honestly I don't think Acura has really stepped up in the service department. When I did own a BMW I can honestly say the service department was top notch. They fixed everything with no questions asked, even a few things I didn't ask to be fixed. Acura's refusal to acknowledge the damper issue is one striking indication that they still can't figure out how to be a luxury brand.
- The Optima will be renewed next year following the Sonata FMC. Kia seems to make great strides each generation. I may not be in the market for a new car next year but I bet the new Optima will be a step up just like the new Genesis is a step up from the old model.

 

Although I have been watching that car since the beginning, I still forget about it. And that's the problem with it. I think it will be overlooked and killed within a couple years. Maserati has some crazy projections for that car. I don't think they will hit their long term goals with that one. At the moment the car is not being promoted well, I don't think enough people know about it.

When most people think "Maserati" the Granturismo is what comes to mind. I have actually been a big fan of the old design Quattroporte for a long time. (The 2009+ facelifted version.) That car is so striking when you see it in person; low, long and sleek. The bespoke interior, you have to see the combination of colors, leather and wood. Unparalleled. I have sat in one and it is hard to believe it is priced in S-class territory. It feels leagues beyond in terms of luxury. Best of all? That Ferrari engine note. In a 4 door car. Intoxicating. Just a little heads up, these cars can be had in GREAT condition 2nd hand in the $40k-50k bracket. Believe me it was another car I considered. The facelifted version is the one to get, and it has the MUCH improved navigation that you will NEED. But I decided I am not "there" yet, in the world of 911s and such. That will be the move after this next one.

But the new 2014 redesign of the Q is hard to pin down. I do like it in most ways but I think for the most part they lost some sexiness in it. I like the aggressive front end of the Ghibli in some ways but something about it isn't right and it has a bit of a Infiniti-like look to it. Side is gorgeous, looks like a mini-Quattroporte. The back would have looked great in 2008 but today it looks like a Kia. The fault is that it definitely does NOT look like premium luxury in the rear though I am sure it will look better in person. The interior is predictably gorgeous and the car's exhaust note is again, awesome. Probably the best sounding 6 cylinder engine out there. I did read about the CD slot and the shifter, haha. Very Italian philosophy. Form over function.

The Ghibli may seem like a great entry level Masarati to compete with the CLS/6 series GT customer, but optioned up the price creeps up towards $100k. So I don't really think this car is one to consider in this category.

 

Yea I have heard the same thing from people that saw it at the NY show. I'll be honest I wasn't too crazy about the styling but I had a feeling they really upped their game with this car. I would want to see that interior in person and drive it. You're right, it's worth checking out.

 

I will tell you compared to the old Genesis the 15 is a huge step up in materials. I still think they are a tad behind Infiniti, Lexus and almost on par with Acura. The interior reminded me of my A6, rather subtle stated luxury, although I think the Genesis had better felling materials than my A6.

 

Yeah that interior really looks beautiful, I don't doubt it for a second.

I'm just trying to get used to that upright Ford Fusion grille. I'm sure they did it to make it stand out from the typical Hyundai/Kia but it takes some getting used to.

 

and the verdict is.....


I'll be sticking to my 4th Gen TL.

 

Funny thing about the BMW topic. I have to admit that the 1986 325 we had was the most fun-to-drive vehicle we have owned (especially for my wife)--at least when it wasn't back at the dealer getting its umpteenth transmission swap or umpteenth air conditioning repair. But it was the handling and road feel that set it apart.

We had not felt that type of handling feel in any car UNTIL we test drove the 2012 TL we ended up with. Almost immediately the first thing we both noticed was how it felt like our old BMW--very tight nimble handling. After 3 years it still feels that way with the added bonus of NO major or even minor issues and of course probably $10k+ less than any equivalent BMW.

 

I like the new Genesis a lot more than the previous one, but the front reminds me too much of a Ford Fusion. The interior is beautiful though.

 

Cant wait to see one fixed up....

 

Since you appear to be the only one to have actually sit in test driven the TLX could you fill all of us in .

 

Below are the June sales. As expected, sedan sales are way down because of TL/TSX shortages I assume and TLX delay...

Can Acura really afford to wait another month at the earliest to introduce the TLX??? Yikes

 

I was at my local dealer over the weekend and they do not many new sedans on their lot and no new TLs. Supposedly they stopped production of the TL in anticipation of the TLX.

 

The literally stole not only an Audi Exec, but he seems to have brought all the Audi elements with him, form the grille, to the interior subtle dash to the way HTRAC is 40/60 full time AWD. 1G Genesis was a MB clone and this one seems to be more a Audi clone.

 

LOL, this is not news to us!? TL finished production in January and most TSX production wrapped in Dec. 2013.

 

From autoguide.com

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...losers.html/10

 

^^This is automotive blocking and tackling 101. You can't cease production of your mainline sedan, and then leave your dealers and customers hanging with no replacement cars on the lot. Between this and the lagging SH-AWD RLX, someone has really messed up in a very un-Honda-like way. I'd imagine people have lost their jobs over these delayed roll-outs.


The thing is, both cars promise a lot of potential. But if they're not available, no one will know.

 

Resale value on my 6MT is getting stronger by the day.

 

I would guess most makers do the same thing, you can not run production that is building months of inventory then switch and have a lot full of deeply discounted out going models that will take initial sales from the new model. I do however agree they should have had better contingency plans since basically 2 models were being replaced by one new one.

 

OMG... not a single sedan selling over 1,000 and there is one, maybe 2 more months of this. Really poor Acura. The unfortunate thing is that those who made these strategic decisions probably go unpunished, but how much do you bet the 'new' Acura management is being held accountable for this?

Last week I drove through my local Acura dealership hoping beyond hope that a pre-production TLX would be hiding out back.... and one of the sales guys came out and literally stood in the parking lot right where I was driving so I had to stop. I rolled the window down for him and asked about the TLX. He didn't seem to know much, he just threw his hands up. He looked new and wanted to know what he could sell me. The reality is there was nothing he could sell me. I haven't seen the lot that empty in a long time if ever. A few TLs can't recall a TSX, several MDX's and a few RDXs. Funny how they always line up the used cars at the front of the lot along the highway.

 

Because there are none to sell. All the Atlanta dealers are basically out of TLs and TSXs.

 

There is something definitely lacking with Honda/Acura's marketing know how as well as model line-up and transitioning. I don't think Lexus went through this shambles when they recently face-lifted all of their models to the new "spindle-front" look and Infiniti did not seem to have that much of a problem going from G to Q (although I think the renaming was stupid). Similarly Mercedes has no problem cranking out not only new model lines but face-lifts to their existing lines. There just seems to be something really dumb in the Honda/Acura management and administration.

 

Someone spotted an NSX in the wild in Indonesia at a shopping center... whaaat? lol..... posted on Instagram.

 

 

^^ probably filming scenes for the new Avengers movie...? But the panels don't align well, so it could be fake.