Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I am running the Hankook ventus V12 evo's and they hold pretty well even with heavy boost in 3rd-4th gear. You are running 100+ whp more than me, but these tires have tollerated some pretty heavy acceleration. Maybe keep wot to 5 gear, I have been getting some crazy acceleration from 5th.

I hate cars

Stickier is waaaay better than wider. I would do a 195mm Drag Radial before I would do a 315mm max performance summer tire. Plus, going wider can sometimes make it want to follow ruts and grooves in the road, even worse when you're under power.

I wish I could help you with a good tire for a FWD car where you need to maintain a decent sidewall stiffness but I've only dealt with slicks and FWD personally. Drag Radials supposedly handle pretty well on FWD but you'll have to use your foot as the fuse if you feel like they're hooking too well. Are they breaking free badly at triple digit speeds or is it just enough that it makes the car spaz out?

Even though I hated to see it go, it looks like getting rid of the auto was a good choice, huh?

I hate cars

I agree, transmission longevity is going to be all about traction and shift quality. You have enough power that you can ease it into gear and let the clutch out a little slower and still be plenty fast without the shock. Some people bark 3rd gear on a stock TL, the peak stress will be about the same as the turbo TL trying to break the tires free in 3rd except the duration will be longer. Where additional traction can actually help reliability is the elimination of wheel hop and even normal spinning and grabbing.

Has anyone really destroyed one of the 6mts besides the Accord guy (no disrespect, I can never remember his username).

After reading your post, I bet you would love a twin turbo setup. ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL which it rarely is, the twin setup will spool slightly slower than a larger single but it will be more linear. Although nowadays with all of the new turbo technology most of the old rules are being rewritten.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

The 6162 turbo is very nicely matched to the j32. The feature I am really liking lately is the knock box and indicator led. Even durring the day I can see the led flash against the gauge face and it makes pushing the car hard much safe for the engine since you can keep it from knocking. It has also allowed me to see the effects of a race gas mix and changes in methanol jet size. The led is just bright enough for the driver to see without having the passenger notice. I have taken a few of my Ford enthusiast buddy's out and they are looking for a warning light to take away from how good it runs. None have noticed the led blinking, but we were picking up speed pretty fast any time the knock led is flashing.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

Majofo

shit bert.. I think your speedo is going to snap off soon. 50-90 was a blink.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

but if you see again from the 5 second mark, he goes from 60-85-ish in a flash and then takes the foot off the gas and drop down to 75-ish in a flash as well....the speedo was looking more like a tacho LOL

I hate cars

That was wheel spin.

Awesome vid, Bert, looks like you're ready to play with the big boys. Your car goes from 100-140 quicker than mine goes from 0-40 lol.

I hate cars

After watching it closer, you can see the car shaking from the wheel spin in what was that, 3rd gear? Looks like it's still on the verge of spinning in 4th. I think you can even hear a little tire squealing in 3rd or maybe it was Bert.

That boost comes in quick, what a great street car!

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

holy shit !!!! i want

I hate cars

That's pretty badass. It spins, hits the limiter and as he shifts the tires catch traction and the speedo drops back to actual vehicle speed. That's why I've always said, 500hp is the range where the car will be having traction issues at any legal speed.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ yup....

but that video is pretty bad ass....i wish he can figure out the perfect tire size/type/brand coz if not for the spinning, he would have hit that 145mph mark wayyy quicker....

bTwix

Do you have a pic of your knock LED? I'm thinking of putting knock led next to the radar/laser led to the left of the clock. Does knock have an audible alert as well? I did a 2.1 audio setup and radar speaker where center used to be, so could put a piezo buzzer in there for knock as well. How often does knock led come on? Maybe a piezo buzzer would be too annoying.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...09#post8687209

bTwix

Damn bert ... that's wicked. Are you WOT in between shifts? Spool is a function of load right, so are you able to modulate throttle so avoid wheel hop or does it happen too fast? I'm wondering if we can retard peak boost/TQ to avoid wheel hop automatically under normal dry conditions.

bTwix

Turns out I'm 10.5:1 with CP pistons, which should help with off boost power and spool as pointed out. Bert's at 9. Will 10.5:1 help offset the transient response hit from the 200 cell cat? Also, Rodney's using .82AR off the 6262.

bTwix

Not sure if this is possible or desirable, but instead of lowering the whole band, is it possible to lop the peak portion off TQ to eliminate the wheel hop at WOT, while not otherwise affecting the curve? Does ECU know what gear you're in, e.g. so you could lop this off 3rd, but not 5th?

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Going wot in 3rd is always going to spin with anything over 350 wtq, I do the same when going into boost that fast. I wouldn't go full boost until 4th unless tire smoke is the desire.

Btwix, I will post a pic in a few minutes.

I hate cars

Compression is a small part of spool. What little you lose with lower compression you can make up for in other tricks. It looks like some are even trying to get theirs to spool slower. You can see that Bert's is very responsive at 9:1 or 9.5:1... If 500hp is all you're after, you could probably go with a .63 A/R and have even better spool than high compression with a small loss up top. That loss up top would be more than offset with the 5-10psi extra boost you will be able to run on a given octane. The lower compression gives you an additional safety margin in your tuning as well. Things don't go south as quickly with low compression. In my daily driver I bumped compression up from 8:1 to 8.5:1 only to make up for the thermal losses associated with aluminum heads. I could have easily gone higher especially with the amount of meth I'm running but I've been that route, didn't like it much.

Either way will get the job done and a lot of it is personal preference but I'm very set in my ways when it comes to pump gas street cars. Low compression is not the best for every car but it is for the majority.

I hate cars

It's easier to learn the car and drive it accordingly. I know my turbo car like the back of my hand. I instinctively get on the gas hard if I have to get across a busy intersection and right as the boost comes in, back off in a linear fashion so to the passenger it feels like steady acceleration. You would never know I go 1/2 pedal and back off to 1/8 pedal. You learn the car and before you even realize it, you're compensating for things like 3rd gear wheel spin with your foot. It looks like in 3rd you would smash the pedal to the floor and almost immediately start backing out to avoid wheel spin. Just imagine the first two gears if 3rd spins like that. You just get used to it. When I bought the TL for the first month I would do the same thing not realizing it, always waiting for the boost to hit me in the back and it never came lol. When I went to pass someone on the highway, if I floored it I would make sure to pull out into the oncoming lane first, straighten the car up and then get on the gas and be ready to back out if it went too sideways.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

The frequency of the knock led coming on has everything to do with how often you push the car hard and your tune. If your tune is good (lower comp, meth help) you may vary rarely see it. I get knock mostly above 8 psi, durring tire spin and pushing the car too hard in too high of a gear. I don't think a buzzer is needed as the led is attention catching enough for me atleast.
Here are some pics of where I mounted the knock led. Knock led is red on the right and the meth injection led is green on the left.



As far as the hi flow cat, I don't see what you will get out of it. Yes the 10.5 to 1 comp will help keep the spool with a restriction like the cat, but the smell is not bad (given I spend much of my free time working on vintage mustangs with no cats ) and the car will not pass smog with the cat. As you can see from Berts video, unrestricted the car accelerates very well, with a cat no one knows since it hasn't been tried. Plus with all the extra fuel going into the engine, that cat can't last very long

I hate cars

One thing to keep in mind is the car should be tuned for zero knock at all times under boost and even more importantly so on a stock bottom end and/or at higher hp levels. If there is some knock, it will eventually cause an engine failure. If it knocks regularly, it needs more octane or less boost.

Majofo

Moar!!

bTwix

Sounds like it *should* never happen. Perhaps I should put a piezo on there, with a kill switch. Would only be a few mA draw. Then I could keep my eyes focused on the road.

Nice. Must be very easy to see. I'm going for the completely stealth look, so can't have anything visible surface mounted like that.

I'm in the city a lot and it with wife in the car a lot, need something that at least smells stock. If it's a problem, I have this hanging out.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

Im still using the nitto invos, but they have at least 20000miles on them. However, there is still a lot of tread left. Need to do some research on a new set.

they wont break free at 90+ plus. But backing off the throttle here and there makes em catch. new tires are definitely in order. I would drive around on drag radials but I do daily drive this car to work and that would be a waste. Ill have to find a sticky street tire with halfway decent treadwear.

without dumping major money into the auto to try and make it handle the power, the 6spd is definitely the way to go. Although, driving this thing in traffic or even light to light sucks sometimes. The clutch is definitely not street friendly. But, if you want the power, there has to be some tradeoffs

yea it starts in 3rd, spins real fast, shift to 4th and it catches, then zoom zoom.

vsa is permanently disabled on my car

not wot between shifts. i was just shifting normal too. dont want to shock the drivetrain that much slamming gears

if you feather the throttle here and there it will grab, but my tires arent the greatest either

you can do boost by gear with the ms3.

I hate cars

That gives me hope since you're running Invos. There are definitely better "regular" summer tires out there. The NT05 is definitely at the top of the list. Treadwear is 200 fwiw. No matter what you put on there, they're going to spin, short of a drag radial.

I understand needing a street tire with good manners and wear but a drag radial is still a very street friendly tire. The sidewalls are reasonably stiff and depending on which drag radial, treadwear is usually from 0-100. My experience on them has been about 10-15,000 miles but that's also heating them up on occasion. I could do a 50-130mph pull and pull over and they're all roughed up, the rubber is really soft. If you need a longer lasting tire then they're not for you but just in case you weren't considering them due to other reasons, you might be surprised at how good they drive on your daily commute. Traction between the best summer tire on the market and these is not in the same league. Good luck with your search.

I hate cars

It's just safer on a daily driver to tune for no knock. That's the way I keep mine because there's enough power available that I don't need to keep it tuned to the edge and you will have plenty of power as well. I ran an 800hp Supra a couple months ago and I had it so that the boost gauge pegged at 30psi on the 3rd gear shift and I got just a tiny bit of knock on the shift. I was pulling the engine after the race anyway so it was a go for broke tune. Still scary but I'll run it that way if there's a lot of money (or pride) on the line but in daily driver trim, no way.

FWIW, I have a piezio element for daily driving when I don't have the laptop on it. It's loud and scary but it makes you lift quickly. My tune is ultra conservative but you never know when a fuel pump might start failing or the meth doesn't kick in, etc.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Bert what camera mount are you using to get these videos?

bTwix

Did you do the slave cylinder check valve delete with jandr twin disc? Sounds like clutch already has more then enough engagement.

Inaccurate

While watching the vid, I was saying -

"Holy crap... Holy crap...... Holy Crap"

Awesome

I crown Bert the "Turbo TL" king

Bert... buddy... YOU DA'MAN !!!!

05_NBP_TL

iTrader: (1)

^+1 that vid =

Bert, i have had good experience with the Nitto 555r on a rwd car that was daily driven. spin them over quickly to warm them up and they grip well.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Another plus for the Hankook evo's is the are pretty cheap and are hold up well mileage wise. I do love 3rd gear, good from 40-100+ and the power feels limitless, I just don't see anything short of a DR holding high boost 3rd gear runs.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

i made my own. it attaches to the passenger head rest and basically sits eye level over the center console arm rest

yes, i took the check valve out. i went back and forth debating if i should and it boiled down to this (after talking to a 2 people that have had the twin disk for a while)...

heres their words

TLDREAM (N/A j35 swapped prelude)
I love the clutch. On my prelude it kind of killed the streetability of the car. I had the check valve removed at first, and with solid mounts, it made it a little rough to drive in stop and go traffic.

I just put a new slave cylinder on the car with the check valve still in it, and it returned much of the driveability. I would leave the checkvalve in. With the TL's built in dampaner in the master cylinder, and the checkvavle intact, it will make for a much less harsh engagement. Shouldnt be to bad for stop and go.

BMEYER (built j36 motor w/turbo)
I could see Rich's (TLDream) view about the check valve, but keep in mind that he's not pushing the sort of numbers that we are. He can afford to deal with a little bit of slippage because it's an all around stronger clutch than the stock setup. In our case, if we try to apply the power before the clutch is fully hooked up, we're going to burn up parts like crazy. That's the last thing
I want to do with a $2k clutch and flywheel.

so after that, i decided to have no check valve from the beginning. it is a little rough to drive this thing in stop and go but i guess thats another trade off if you want big power.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

so heres little problem I ran into. ill make it real easy with pics.



I noticed on the cast iron portion of the center housing (#5), there is oil leaking from where I made that red circle. There is a bolt located there. There are 4 total bolts. Only the bottom 2 are leaking. I saw this a little while ago and figure it was the drain fittings. I cleaned the area real good with brake cleaner, went for a drive and found it like this when I came back. The drain fittings are not the problem.

im running a -3an feed line and -10 drain line. i, not running a restrictor either. i really dont think im over oiling the turbo and it cant drain fast enough. this leak happened recently.

as you can see here, the 2 top bolts are dry.




the drain plug is dry also


heres the left bottom bolt. you can see how its wet around the bolt and leaking downward. you can tell its leaking from both sides b/c the wet mark thats closer to the compressor housing is higher then the actual bolt


heres the whole right side. dry on top, wet on bottom



closeups of the right side lower bolt and drain flange. it doesnt appear to be leaking from the drain gasket






is there a internal gasket that could be leaking? are those bolts supposed to have teflon tape on them?

I was planning on pulling the turbo off soon to have the housing polished so id like to know what im getting myself into

I hate cars

That's an oddball leak, I've never had one of mine leak from there but just about everywhere else though.

I have to assume the drain is clear and free...

The center section obviously has oil in it but with the ball bearing center, not a whole lot of oil. You can make sure there's a restrictor in the oil feed line, usually right at the turbo which is necessary with the ball bearing turbos.

Can you get a wrench on the bolts to make sure they're tight?

I believe there is a metal gasket between the center and the backing plate. You may want to pull an intercooler hose and make sure oil is not getting into the intake tract. If it's not and the leak is isolated right there, it's not nearly as bad. Teflon on the threads should do the job but if you have a blanket on the turbo, it could be destroying the teflon from the heat.

The drain size with the 90 is a little concerning. It's not absolutely too small, especially for a ball bearing turbo that uses less oil but the oil comes out of there in a froth and in theory it should be as large as the initial opening all the way to the pan or where ever it dumps. The dynamic seals along with the metal gaskets aren't made to seal against any real oil pressure and there will be leakage.

Unrelated, when you pull the turbo, replace the drain gasket, between the billet piece and the center section with a copper one. The fiber ones always leak over time and copper is reusable. Maybe it's already copper, hard to see.

The metal gaskets usually aren't serviceable by "us" depending on the turbo and if the compressor wheel has to come off. You'll probably be able to fix the problem by either tightening the bolts or with teflon which should hold up.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Bert did you change out the turbo to 6262 ball bearing? I thought the kits came with journal bearing 6162's.

bTwix

Looks like we'll be tuning for 92 octane: http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/n...available.html

That's what I'm looking for. Do you recommend a kill switch for the buzzer, or if you get a bad tank of gas can you just baby it until you can find some toluene or xylene to mix in?

I hate cars

You can always just baby it. The buzzer is for in the heat of the moment, to get you to lift as quickly as possible. As long as you're not on boost, it would be very hard to hurt anything. You can always drive the car normally and stay at low boost or out of boost if something is wrong. The odds of something going wrong are slim and with a conservative tune you'll probably forget you even have the buzzer but it will be there to protect the engine if the time comes.

bTwix

I'm pretty sure the JnR kit has the 6262 journal bearing with forged billet compressor wheel. Ceramic ball bearing option is $600 more I think per PTE website: http://www.precisionturbo.net/Street...-CEA%C2%AE/245

However sounds like ball bearing option spools up a little quicker, so may opt for that instead. Bert, did you upgrade to the ceramic ball bearing version? Is yours air cooled or water cooled? Sounds like only the ceramic ball bearing version is air cooled.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

ok let me clear this up. I was misinformed. This is a 6162 journal.

IHC,

I have not pulled the drain yet to check for a clog. will do that next

I am not running a restrictor. Precision says their journal turbos do not need restrictors. However, Ive read on a few honda forums that honda motors typically have much higher oil pressure then other manufacturers. Most guys running turbos on honda motors are using a .065 restrictor. when i first had the turbo, i was using a restrictor...now im not. rodney says my kit was the only one to ever use a restrictor. (we only ran one bc the guy who owned the first dyno shop we ever went to recommended one)

i put a wrench on those 4 bolts on the center housing and i was able to tighten each bolt about 3/4 to a full turn. But, the bolts were not necessarily getting much tighter. Only a little more snug. i did not want to snap a bolt or strip the threads so i stopped.

are those 4 bolts supposed to have teflon on them?

i do have a blanket on the turbo

i pulled the intercooler pipe that comes right off the turbo. there is a coupler on the bottom of that pipe that sits parallel to the ground. ithe pipes and coupler are completely dry. no oil in the pipes.

i was looking at that 90 drain plug. it doesnt really make sense to me why its even there. i think at the very least there should be a 45 there and not a 90. on the other hand, i dont even think i need a angled fitting. it looks like the braided line would fit right into the drain flange and provide a steeper angle to drain faster. make sense? or is there a legit purpose for the angled fitting?

dont forget that ive been running that 90 fitting since the beginning and this is the first time i have a leak. im sure hi speed and KN are running the exact same fitting and they are not leaking

Xiomaro

iTrader: (5)

yea, its been tough beeing the guinea pig...

hopefully we can jump right back on mine with as much attention as yours this time around