I hate cars

Ah, Denver, the place where turbo cars rule. I've literally seen stock GNs and WRXs beat Vipers up there.

I hate cars

Did you upgrade the sleeves or are you running stock cylinders? I'm just wondering what the next weak link is, I'm guessing cylinder walk.

Majofo

sleeve it..

IHC.. so.. did you race that Supra?

I hate cars

Yep. I'll PM you, let me clear it out real quick.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

damn i cant believe my eyes....600horses on a TL....that is pure fucking AWESOME...

all hail Rodney

I hate cars

Your PM box is full. I thought I had the monopoly on that lol.

Skier4lyfe303

iTrader: (32)

Its very similar but it will be sleeved, so the tranny or axles are most likely the weakest link,as they are just stock Type S for now.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

can someone explain what "sleeving" and engine/cylinder is ?

any links for more reading ?

pass427

Bmeyer thanks for that update I'm a bit late lol but ,I can't stress this anymore WE SELL THESE ASSEMBLED FUEL PUMP UNITS FOR A REASON, for members that are upgrading please opt for the setup it will help you in long run and save you a lot of headaches during r&d we found a lot of issues and proceeded to make products thats a must for upgrading these tl ......

pass427

If it is email me as I'm offering deal til January 1rst you've been wanting this so long ,we want to get you on board ..

pass427

Kn no worries you know I'm always here for you man ,we can go to the aeromotive if you park the car thru out the holiday just send me the assembly back or I can get one out to you no worries ...

pass427

Great update Bmeyer I didn't even know you got her up and running awesome I can put a boost cut thru ecu this way you can pull it out the garage and get some miles on it once you have a wideband I can clean up map for n/a for you if you need my help don't hesitate ..

pass427

Axles isn't an issue I can have them build asap to handle 1000 whp ,as far as trans goes if we start destructing them we will push and get gears for them as we have myself ,Bmeyer,skier4lyfe303 ,Kn ect with all us put together I'm sure I can get a few sets build ...

pass427

I'll let ihc elaborate on this if he doesn't mind

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

Don't worry you'll achieve all because of Tebow.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Thanks Rodney. I still have the stock unit so I will send that to you. When I get that back I'll send you the one I have installed now. Just buzz me an email of what it'll cost.

Majofo

If you send a response in the next hour, it might make it through.

I hate cars

Done. I had it copied to my home computer, just resent it, I hope it makes sense today, I was tired last night.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

Stock. Couldnt justify another 1200-1400 for sleeves

I hate cars

A sleeve is as simple as it sounds. In our case it's an iron sleeve inside of an aluminum cylinder. Aluminum as a cylinder material would wear out in a few hundred miles so the manufacturer inserts an iron or steel sleeve inside the aluminum cylinder for the rings to wear on.

Not only does the iron wear much slower, it's stronger as well. "Sleeving" as used in here usually means boring the stock sleeves out, boring the aluminum cylinder larger (and thinner) and inserting a thicker iron sleeve with the same inner diameter.

When cylinder pressures start to climb such as in a high power turbo engine, the cylinders can flex, causing a bad ring seal or worst case, they can crack. The thicker sleeve not only ensures it won't break, it can give a better ring seal under high power which will mean a few more hp, and without the flexing and distortion can mean less wear to the rings and cylinders.

The other area to mention is open deck vs closed deck. The J series uses an open deck. Supposedly better cooling but not as strong, especially in boosted engines.

In an open deck, the cylinders are supported near the main webbing at the bottom of the cylinder and they're basically unsupported except from the bottom. The heads basically help clamp everything down. What you end up with under high power is the cylinders walking around and you end up with anything from blown head gaskets to broken/flexing cylinders.

Closed deck is where the cylinders are also supported at the top of the block all cast as one piece. It greatly increases cylinder stability. Some say it can hurt cooling, I've never seen much of a difference. There are inserts you can buy for some engines that actually close in the deck to strengthen and stabilize everything. I would highly recommend this if you're running a lot of power on stock sleeves.

I don't know if Honda runs the cylinders a little higher than the deck to increase the clamping force from the heads. It's pretty normal when sleeving an engine to leave the sleeves above the deck and machining them down leaving them a few thousandths of an inch above the deck to get a better clamp from the heads and head gaskets.

Who knows where the J32 will break at. For all I know it might take 1,000hp on the stock cylinders and an open deck setup. The one thing I would do if I were running stock sleeves and the open deck setup is pay even more attention to the tune. A little detonation at this power level will cause havoc in the cylinder area.

This is a big assumption but the 4 banger Hondas seem to take a good amount of power on stock cylinders. ASSuming the J32 is just as well built, 100hp per cylinder is not *that* bad compared to what some of the 4 cylinder guys are running.

The exceptions to sleeved aluminum are the Nikasil coated aluminum cylinders by Porsche and whatever Mercedes versions are called. Maybe more use the coating now, I don't know. I don't really keep up with this stuff because I use mostly iron block engines or iron sleeved aluminum.

Inaccurate

^ IHC, Awesome explanation

Skier4lyfe303

iTrader: (32)

^^^^^^^^what he said!

I hate cars

Thanks. I find it harder and harder to to compose an intelligible post these days.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ you kidding me....

that was a great explanation for a :noob: like me

bmeyer

iTrader: (3)

I'll second this entire statement. Both the Walbro 255 and the Aeromotive 340 are considerably larger than the stock unit and require extensive cutting to the stock housing. One false slip and your pump won't seal properly and you'll have fueling issues.

Thanks, Rodney. I think instead of my trying get videos of everything and going back and forth, I'm just going to bring the car up to the shop next week. I found a guy with Honda V6 as well as MegaSquirt experience in my area so I'm feeling pretty good about them. I'll probably give them your phone number so that if they have any immediate questions or concerns that they can get the info straight from the source if that's cool with you. I'm aiming for next Thursday or Friday, but that could change depending on their schedule.

The plan is to have them break the engine in right there on the dyno and then get a tune for pump gas. I'll also have them perform a leak-down test during the process. Then once it's home, I'll start piecing together the parts to make a flex fuel car out of it. I'll send you an email once it's back home and let you know how it turned out.

pass427

With that in mind ecu is your friend as there's an optional sensor that can be added to ecu which senses flex fuel and switches over to a flex fuel map in ecu that youd alreadyhave tuned

bmeyer

iTrader: (3)

Exactly. From what I've read, the most popular sensor is made by GM and costs around $400-$500 depending on where you get it from. It says that it's an in-line sensor and that fuel must flow through it, which is what I'm concerned about. I need to find out the diameter of the inlet/outlet and determine if it's going to be a bottleneck for me. If it is, I may have to come up with a way to install it in a closed system and just circulate fuel through it.

I hate cars

That's going to be nearly 1,200cc injectors. I'm curious how they idle in a small cam car, I've only used something that big in big cam cars so the idle was already screwed up. So I guess the ECU will give you enough timing advance to run the E85?

I like E85 but I would give meth injection some consideration first. Either route is going to provide you with the means to break the 600whp mark but meth will be much cheaper and could give better drivability and mpg. Plus turbo spool will be a little slower on E85. It might not be enough to matter but sometimes it's an issue.

bmeyer

iTrader: (3)

So far, they idle surprisingly well. The Type-S cams are still relatively small, but still an upgrade over the stock 3.2 cams. I think the big factor is the ECU here. I can input the injector dead times as well as other parameters which allow them to behave quite civil. I'll take some video after its tuned and send it your way so that you can see for yourself.

I already have the AEM water/meth kit installed, but my tuner and I have concerns with basing a map off of it. With such a small reservoir tank, it doesn't give me much distance out of the car before I need to worry about replenishing my meth supply. From what I've heard, in colder climates (such as mine), people tend to lean towards the E85 side because of other flow problems. From what my tuner has seen, he said that the E85 guys outnumber the meth guys 50 to 1.

I still need to upgrade a couple of other parts yet, but I think my ultimate goal is in the neighborhood of 650 whp. It's solely for bragging rights and I know that I don't have a chance in hell of that kind of power ever hooking up on the street. I'm thinking I'll hit around 500 whp the first time around, then once I have these other systems sorted out, then I'll go for more. Honestly though, I'll just be happy to have the car running period. It's been down for over a year now and I'm ready to see the project end (for my wallet's sake lol). I can always tinker on it to make more power. It's getting it up and running in the first place that can be a challenge. Especially when SO many parts have changed.

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

I know I know, I really want it. I just can't afford everything after the turbo like the Meth Kit, new injectors, and other stuff

But I promise I'm saving my money for it.

DigitalEmpire22

I am very curious about who your tuner is here in Denver. Mind sharing?
Also, with this talk of a 600whp TL you have me glued to my screen.

How far along are you with the build?

Also, if you don't mind me asking, how much you spending on it?
I have been interested in this for awhile, and now new life has been given to my interest

Skier4lyfe303

iTrader: (32)

Its a shop called Speed Image, they do everything I know they owner and this is his first TL, even though he has done lots of other Hondas (his Integra was around 1000 WHP). The block is out in cali now getting sleeved, should be back my mid next week. And way too much!!!

I hate cars

If you don't mind me asking, which shop did you send it to in Cali? Just wondering if I know them.

Skier4lyfe303

iTrader: (32)

I cant remember the name right now, I can ask my tech on Monday if you really wanna know lol

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

Just wanted to let people know that JnR is having a group buy for the ECU (pending Vendor status)

link here: https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/group-buy-jnr-ecu-dynos-gains-12-23-%3B-prices-posted-1-7-a-841554/

I hate cars

It's not a big deal, I was just wondering if it was someone I might know.

bmeyer

iTrader: (3)

Since you're sleeving it, are you going to bump up the displacement as well? We've been waiting a while to see someone hit the 4.0L mark. Still no takers.

Skier4lyfe303

iTrader: (32)

Ill be playing with displacement but wont be going anywhere near that number (that would be fun to see though!)

libert69

iTrader: (7)

I just had to post this vid here of rodneys car. This vid gives me wood

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

^what kind of wood?