Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

i just finished up my custom turbo intake ( 45 degree elbow and a AEM dry flow filter) a few days ago for my V1 piping kit. This was a serious pain in the ass because the space is so limited by the fuse box, shiter linkage, ground cables and other stuff. I have been working on this project for over a month with ordering and waiting on parts, sending parts back ( I love Summit Racing ) and trying every way under the sun to make the parts fit. Looking at the car with a flashlight and trying to figure what can be moved and streached without messing something up.

Now that I am done I'm pretty happy with the result. I took a 4 inch ID 45 degree elbow with 4 inch legs from ebay for $25 and a 4 inch OD aluminum pipe joiner about $14 also from ebay. I bought a 5 inch tall by 6 inch round AEM dry filter ( because filter oil buggs me ) about $50 part # AEM 21-205dk, I orginally bought the larger 9 inch by 6 in AEM filter but it was not going to fit and after trying for over a week I sent it back for my present filter.

I was running a smaller filter clamped right to the turbo, but it was dirty and just too small CFM wise for the power levels I am aiming for. No doubt theses little filters can flow more that they are rated for under boost, but I needed a bigger filter and a way to put some distance between it and the turbo. I have held off on getting a turbo blanket for fear it might do more harm than good interms of cooking the bearings and all that heat is going right into the turbo. My hope is my little intake combined with a larger filter will source air slightly farther away from the turbo avoiding heat soak until I can sort out if I am going to run a blanket or not. Here are some pics.

mmcv6

good job i like it...

libert69

iTrader: (7)

Which type of raybestos clutch pack is optimal for 500 @ wheels and used on the street? Im reading on forums that the blues are best for high power applications but more drag strip oriented.

Here is raybestos clutch pack guide
http://www.raybestospowertrain.com/p...late_guide.pdf

As you can see, raybestos makes clutches and steels for the 3g TL. FYI, our 5AT trans code is BDGA
http://www.raybestospowertrain.com/p.../RCP96-192.pdf

http://www.raybestospowertrain.com/p...list_trans.pdf

Updated list of part numbers for 3g TL trans code BDGA
http://www.raybestospowertrain.com/p...PX_revised.pdf

The search continues...

I hate cars

The Alto reds are great for high power applications. You may have to play with which fluids you use, straight Type-F might be too aggressive, a mix with DexIII may be necessary but that's a long way off. The worst thing that will happen is harsh shifts. I've done this for many years, fine tuning the shift firmness with the type of fluid.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

Raybestos doesnt have any performance clutches that will work for the TL. They do however have a rebuild kit for the TL with new gaskets, seals and their basic tan clutch packs. I would still have to think these are better then oem but Im just guessing.

Alto has high energy clutches but Im still trying to find if they have the reds available.

OEM Tq converter arrived today. Sent it out to import performance trans to let do their work.

I wasnt sure how to measure the converter to get the correct diameter. I dont know if you measure the front using the teeth as the widest point so I measure the rear without the teeth. It measures 11 7/8"

Not much to see here

Inaccurate

Cool. This is the first time that I seen a TL converter. Smaller than I had thought. Thanks for the pic and update Bert.

I hate cars

So I'm guessing the outer splines are the drive for the pump.... For some reason it looked weird at first. So it's basically a 10" converter. Not a bad starting point.

Silva-type-s

iTrader: (3)

its heavy as shit though

Xiomaro

iTrader: (5)

[QUOTE=I hate cars;13176142]I used to hate it when people put V8s in these things. Here's an all time low. I wish he lived a little closer to me.... To his credit I think it's not an original turbo car, just a clone.

I just saw an oriinal GN down here in palm beach gardens FL on fri.
It was mint! and in a handicap space! Y NOT ME!!!!!!(the car that is)

libert69

iTrader: (7)

Yea the converter was very heavy. About 35 pounds or so.

Alto does not make red clutches for the TL

They do have high energy greens available (same ones Richie bought a while ago). Rebuild kit with clutches but no steels is 280$ (same price as raybestos rebuild kit). Rebuild kit with steels is 370$ but they are on backorder

I hate cars

If they don't have red, they probably don't have blues?? Blues pretty much have to be matched with Koleen steels. Very, very tough and hard to destroy. It might be worth checking on.

Regular old Raybestos clutches will take a lot of power but if any slippage occurs they will burn out quicker. IMO it becomes much more important to have very quick snappy shifts and great shift timing when using the stockish clutches but they will hold a lot of power as long as everything else is perfect.

You can check to see if they offer any clutch packs that offer an additional clutch or two per pack for additional holding power. This would be the same as adding a larger clutch with more holding power on a manual. You can get them where each clutch and/or steel is thinner so that you can fit more clutches in each pack without the machine work or aftermarket hard parts. The downside is that while they will hold more power they won't have as much wear material.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

Raybestos does not have blues for the TL either. At the moment, the only options are high energy greens from alto or raybestos oem equivalents which I believe are their tan version.

I was reading about adding additional clutches for more power but I need to do lots of research on this.

For the time being, a modified converter is the only upgrade Im going to do right now. I would rather keep pushing the oem clutches to the max then start experimenting with new clutches right now.

My thinking is this. If I add a new converter and aftermarket clutches at the same time and something goes wrong, it might be difficult to pinpoint the problem. Does that make sense?

I hate cars

Definitely. The good thing about the higher stall converter is that you probably won't be able to feel your part throttle shifts at all. It tends to make things easier on the trans during normal driving. That's one thing to look out for, don't be worried if the shifts feel too soft as long as they're quick.

jbrow117

I have an auto trans soo...I'll be glad to cover some of the costs out of pocket just to see this project go through! Where are we sending donations?

Majofo

Paypal Majofo

libert69

iTrader: (7)

i dont think i feel right taking your guys money for use on my car. converter is at the shop now and is scheduled to be shipped back to me on tuesday

KzooTL

I found these pictures on the net, i like the turbo placement in this.

I hate cars

I like that setup besides the lack of air filtration. Remember, there are reverse compressor housings out there so there is some flexibility when designing the system.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

That setup looks a little questionable to me. The hot side of the turbo and exhaust manifold comming up next to all the electronics in that area not to mention the proximity to the IM. I like seeing new designs and ways of getting the job done, but the way this was done seems poorly designed. I wonder how it runs.

Majofo

Is that supposed to keep small dogs and children out.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Nice job with the exhaust under the car.

handsom-hustla

iTrader: (3)

He has videos on you tube. I think at 6 psi he was making early 300.. I believe he was located in Canada. It was a custom set up but didn't real make solid power. That turbo is way oversized for the application.

bmeyer

iTrader: (3)

The exhaust side on that turbo looked a little large, but the intake side looks about right. One thing I wish the J&R setup had, that that kit has, is 3" piping coming off of the turbo and back to the exhaust. That's going to be one of the biggest bottlenecks in my setup. At some point I'll probably have some new piping made, but my primary concern for now is just getting it running.

I hate cars

What size is the dp on the J&R kit? 3" is about the minimum for 400hp. 3.5" for 600+. Otherwise you're not only hurting power but spool too.

bmeyer

iTrader: (3)

The outlet on the turbo is 3", but the piping is reduced down to 2.5" immediately off of the turbo for about 4-5 feet of piping. That's most of the reason for my earlier argument that running the ATLP quads isn't going to be the biggest bottleneck. Fluid dynamics wasn't my strongest subject in school, but ideally you would have a turbo with a 3.5" exit and run that all the way back to the muffler(s). The next best solution would be to would run 3" off of the turbo and then slowly taper up to 3.5"+. The down-side is that A.) it's difficult to get piping which tapers at the proper rate, and B.) it's more difficult to work with (read: bend).

SteelSkhi

How much of your drivetrain did you improve to handle the extra strain? There 110000 miles on my whip and fear ill kill my engine.
I would love to put this mod on my TL. But messing with the innards scares me on the slightest, i just barely took care of all my cosmetic mods and once installed the ride will be super custom and beautifully simple.

Anyone interested in cheaper than wholesale mods apply for a sponsorship, its easy... 700 more unique views on this video and i will get $500 to put towards my parts. Please help me out and help yourself out and watch the video!
http://videosponsorships.com/v/1313683676_2027_40

Thanks

Bx176

Hey Guys just started reading this thread yesterday got to page 15 cant read all of it, really great info tho! Too many post to read in order to catch up, did they crack ECU, did the OP accomplish what he started? Thanks in advance guys!

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

^yes. Nearly everything has been accomplished.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

@bmeyer
Does the V2 J&R piping differ from the original version?
I'll have to pull it all apart to see if I have the same reduction post-turbo.

Also,
I asked this on kikazz's build but what is the advantage of the wastegate dump into the atmosphere vs the downipe?

bmeyer

iTrader: (3)

It's tough to define the "V2" since there seem to be about a half dozen different setups... What I know is this... My setup has a little nicer Y-pipe (compared to the V1) which joins just under the front-side of the engine and runs up to the turbo. It then circles back around the back of the transmission and then takes a couple of 90 degree turns back to the mid-pipe.

There are a couple of advantages to the atmospheric wastegate dump... First is that it simplifies the exhaust piping. Second is that it's just that much less exhaust gasses flowing through the smaller exhaust piping. The down-side is that it doesn't sound all that great. Personally, I hate the way open wastegates sound.

Edit: I'll snap some photos this week and email them to you so that you can see what I'm talking about.

I hate cars

Nothing besides cost of labor assuming the exhaust is free flowing enough. Personally I always put it back into the exhaust stream, I can't stand the sound when the wastegate opens. If your exhaust is restrictive you can run into boost creep but it's a very slim possibility. If it's restrictive, the wastegate can't vent as well but at the same time the exhaust flow is restricted so it usually evens out.

I hate cars

Wow, that's a place for improvement especially considering you have enough airflow for 600hp. I've run mine through a 2.5" dp all the way until it splits into dual exhaust at at around 500hp, switching to a 3" made a world of difference. It's best to come off of the turbo as large as possible and if it has to neck down, it's best to do it as far from the turbo as possible. I know a lot of guys that run a 3.5" that necks down to 3" a couple feet from the turbo. Spool and dynamics are much better with the larger dp.

The vortex coming out of the turbine wheel should have a good 6" straight shot out of the turbo with at least the same diameter as the wheel when possible.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

The size of the dump tube is really small. If it were better then i would begin my new piping off the turbo. Since there doesn't seem to be any advantage, I am just going to cut below the dump tube and reroute from there.

I don't think the original design changes the tube diameter but I won't know for sure until I get into it.

I hate cars

If that's a real 3rd cat laying on the floor, it would be a good idea to dump back in after the cat.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

It's my inspection passing device. Only stays in for a short time. I have a 100 cell that I want to try just to see if it cuts down the stank. But if it messes with the spool, it'll just be used for getting it inspected once a year.

bmeyer

iTrader: (3)

By the way, for anyone looking for a nicer setup when plumbing their wastegate, I ordered up some parts the other day and made something similar to this:



It basically uses the same types of fittings found in most water/meth kits. It cost me a total of $17 to piece it together. I purchased the fittings from Automation Direct. I had to enlarge the threads on my boost control solenoid in order to get the fittings in, but that was a pretty simple task.

I found this on another Honda forum but I didn't have any luck contacting this Tempest Racing.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

I wish I had seen this when I was melting silicone hoses......

I hate cars

Very nice on the hoses. It's pretty important that these are reliable since a broken or melted one has the potential to cause a blown engine.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

I got my converter back from Import performance transmission today. Honestly, the only difference I can see from the outside is that its painted black now.

I took a lot of pictures of all the welds on the converter before It went out and ALL the spot welds look exactly the same

The one solid weld that goes around the entire circumference of the converter looks different. Im assuming this is where they cut the converter open.

Is this typically how the process is done? Do shops basically chop the converter in half and use this as the entrance point into the converter? Is it normal for all the spot welds to stay same?

The converter was drained as best as I could before I sent it out. Not completely dry but no drips. I noticed that inside the converter still has some slight red trans fluid. I stuck a paper towel in the inlet and it had some fluid residue on the towel when I took it out. Shouldn't the internals be completely dry if they were modified? Or is it common practice to lube all the parts before re-assembly?

Spot weld looks EXACTLY the same. Notice the small indentation




Notice the red circle. This piece of metal was removed. Once again, the weld looks 100% the same.




This is solid weld that goes around the entire circumference. This weld looks different.

I hate cars

Looks perfectly normal. You're correct, the weld around the circumference is how they get into the converter. The starter ring stays attached so they never broke those welds. The balance weight is gone, maybe meaning they balanced it as well. Everything will be assembled with ATF or whatever assembly lube they use, usually ATF though. As long as it's new fluid it's normal. I think you have nothing to worry about, can't wait to hear your review. What was this supposed to be, about 2,800rpm?

This is the one area I tend to not be so conservative on. As long as they know it's for a turbo car they will usually build it a little on the loose side. There's a big difference in a 600ft lb big block with 100% of the torque available right away vs a turbo 6 that needs boost to make torque. The turbo car needs a looser convertor just to get boost to hit the stall speed.