Turbo Kit for Acura TL '04-'08
09-14-2010, 08:24 PM
#4001
Team Owner
Its hard to tell if there was an increase in power. I couldnt feel the car pulling harder then normal but I only went for a short drive. However, the bov sounded louder then normal 
The a/f gauge was sticking at 14.7 again. I need to spray the sensor with some brake cleaner again.
My kit is progressive. The starting boost level is 10% of the pumps max pressure. Max boost level on the controller is 100%
The a/f gauge was sticking at 14.7 again. I need to spray the sensor with some brake cleaner again.
My kit is progressive. The starting boost level is 10% of the pumps max pressure. Max boost level on the controller is 100%
Very good that it's linear.
I would have the trigger point pretty low like 1-2psi. Just don't forget you have to have a little lead time depending on how quickly the turbo spools. You don't want the air getting there before the meth. If you go a little rich on meth it's not quite as bad as going rich on gasoline. Spool won't be affected that much.
Keep in mind meth has a stoich of 6.4:1 instead of gasoline's 14.7:1. It's actually a good thing that the car is running lean on gasoline. Now you can really ramp up the meth. You can see from the chart below that it takes a fair amount of meth to raise AF compared to gasoline. Don't be afraid to inject more, you're not going to lose as much power from going rich on meth as compared to gasoline.
Don't forget that meth likes timing but at some point you would have to decide if you want the car to be able to safely go full throttle without meth or tune it for max power with meth.
Alcohol Lambda Gas
6.4 1 14.7
6.2 0.96875 14.240625
6 0.9375 13.78125
5
5.8 0.90625 13.321875
5.6 0.875 12.8625
5.5 0.859375 12.6328125
5.4 0.84375 12.403125
5.2 0.8125 11.94375
5 0.78125 11.484375
4.8 0.75 11.025
4.6 0.71875 10.565625
4.5 0.703125 10.3359375
4.4 0.6875 10.10625 字串6
4.2 0.65625 9.646875
4 0.625 9.1875
3.8 0.59375 8.728125
3.6 0.5625 8.26875
3.5 0.546875 8.0390625
5
3.4 0.53125 7.809375
3.2 0.5 7.35
Keep logs of AF vs IAT vs nozzle and setpoints. This will really help later on as things start to change.
09-14-2010, 08:28 PM
#4002
Team Owner
Off topic but you will want to shorten your oil change interval. I would do 3,000 mile intervals.
09-14-2010, 08:46 PM
#4003
No filter for me. Ive heard both sides of the story when it comes to filters and I decided not to run one.
However, the next time I goto the parts store by me that sells the 4" silicone hose (same as KN) Im going to buy a piece and put a filter on it and see if theres any difference in driveability. If none, then Ill leave it on
However, the next time I goto the parts store by me that sells the 4" silicone hose (same as KN) Im going to buy a piece and put a filter on it and see if theres any difference in driveability. If none, then Ill leave it on
09-14-2010, 10:55 PM
#4004
Team Owner
No filter for me. Ive heard both sides of the story when it comes to filters and I decided not to run one.
However, the next time I goto the parts store by me that sells the 4" silicone hose (same as KN) Im going to buy a piece and put a filter on it and see if theres any difference in driveability. If none, then Ill leave it on
However, the next time I goto the parts store by me that sells the 4" silicone hose (same as KN) Im going to buy a piece and put a filter on it and see if theres any difference in driveability. If none, then Ill leave it on
You guys need to figure out this weird filter thing. A filter should not be able to cause any sort of issues with drivability. None. Something weird is going on.
Personally I don't like filters bolted straight to the turbo. Shoot for a good 6" of straight pipe before the inlet if space permits.
You could even do a 5" pipe with some weird bends even if it has to be slightly notched in a few places and reduced at the turbo inlet. It's important to have 0 restriction before the turbo.
A good 9" K&N is more than enough flow for the hp the TL is making. You can always run a 14" filter if it makes you feel better. It's not needed but it will go much longer between cleanings. Is there any possible way to fab up a 5" hose that goes all the way to the grill area?
When are these cars acting funny with the filter installed? Is is part throttle where the boost tries to creep up?
The car needs a filter. It will run for a while. You could get 50,000+ miles but all it takes is to run through one dusty area to do permanent damage. It won't blow up but each time it sandblasts the cylinders and rings and dulls the compressor wheel. You lose some engine life each time. I've run into abrasion problems in the past on my car and that was running a K&N too. I had to switch to Amsoil filters to stop the dirt from getting in.
09-15-2010, 12:46 AM
#4006
Safety Car
In case anyone is interested in the following question.
“Because best safe power afr for methanol is 5.7, how will I read such a low number on my wideband gauge?”
Or
“If I am injecting pure methanol into my gasoline engine, how will the methanol effect my overall afr mixture (as seen with the wideband gauge)?”
Although it is true that a methanol engine requires nearly double the amount of methanol versus if the engine was running on gasoline, the wideband gauge will read almost the same for both fuels.
The wideband gauge reads lambda. Ideal (best safe power) lambda for gasoline is 0.87. Ideal for methanol is 0.88. The gauge needle will be pointing at 12.8 for the gasoline, and pointing at 12.9 for the methanol.
SOURCE: Lambda Calculations (click here)
I am NOT saying that the methanol runs at 12.9. I am saying that the needle on the wideband will be pointing at 12.9.
Some extra reading -
Lambda vs Fuel Mix (click here)
Lambda Verse AF ratio (click here)
Will injecting water/methanol mix affect afr? (click here)
The red Kool-aid looks like Snow's 50/50 mix.
“Because best safe power afr for methanol is 5.7, how will I read such a low number on my wideband gauge?”
Or
“If I am injecting pure methanol into my gasoline engine, how will the methanol effect my overall afr mixture (as seen with the wideband gauge)?”
Although it is true that a methanol engine requires nearly double the amount of methanol versus if the engine was running on gasoline, the wideband gauge will read almost the same for both fuels.
The wideband gauge reads lambda. Ideal (best safe power) lambda for gasoline is 0.87. Ideal for methanol is 0.88. The gauge needle will be pointing at 12.8 for the gasoline, and pointing at 12.9 for the methanol.
SOURCE: Lambda Calculations (click here)
I am NOT saying that the methanol runs at 12.9. I am saying that the needle on the wideband will be pointing at 12.9.
Some extra reading -
Lambda vs Fuel Mix (click here)
Lambda Verse AF ratio (click here)
Will injecting water/methanol mix affect afr? (click here)
The red Kool-aid looks like Snow's 50/50 mix.
09-15-2010, 05:10 AM
#4008
Very good that it's linear.
I would have the trigger point pretty low like 1-2psi. Just don't forget you have to have a little lead time depending on how quickly the turbo spools. You don't want the air getting there before the meth. If you go a little rich on meth it's not quite as bad as going rich on gasoline. Spool won't be affected that much.
Keep in mind meth has a stoich of 6.4:1 instead of gasoline's 14.7:1. It's actually a good thing that the car is running lean on gasoline. Now you can really ramp up the meth. You can see from the chart below that it takes a fair amount of meth to raise AF compared to gasoline. Don't be afraid to inject more, you're not going to lose as much power from going rich on meth as compared to gasoline.
Don't forget that meth likes timing but at some point you would have to decide if you want the car to be able to safely go full throttle without meth or tune it for max power with meth.
I would have the trigger point pretty low like 1-2psi. Just don't forget you have to have a little lead time depending on how quickly the turbo spools. You don't want the air getting there before the meth. If you go a little rich on meth it's not quite as bad as going rich on gasoline. Spool won't be affected that much.
Keep in mind meth has a stoich of 6.4:1 instead of gasoline's 14.7:1. It's actually a good thing that the car is running lean on gasoline. Now you can really ramp up the meth. You can see from the chart below that it takes a fair amount of meth to raise AF compared to gasoline. Don't be afraid to inject more, you're not going to lose as much power from going rich on meth as compared to gasoline.
Don't forget that meth likes timing but at some point you would have to decide if you want the car to be able to safely go full throttle without meth or tune it for max power with meth.
I took the car out tonight for a long drive so I could play with the controller. Earlier today I only did a few 3rd gear pulls. Tonight I did a few 1st thru 2nd pulls. The car feels noticeably faster through 1st and 2nd gear. Not so much 3rd.
The a/f under partial throttle doesnt seem to have changed much. Maybe staying a little closer to the lower 14s as opposed to bouncing from 14.6-15.3 previously. Bigger nozzles may do the trick. I need to make a few more videos of wot now so I can check the a/f of each gear. I believe i noticed 3rd gear staying mostly between 11.5-11.8. Pre-meth I would see some 12s in there. Ill have to double check.
You guys need to figure out this weird filter thing. A filter should not be able to cause any sort of issues with drivability. None. Something weird is going on.
Personally I don't like filters bolted straight to the turbo. Shoot for a good 6" of straight pipe before the inlet if space permits.
You could even do a 5" pipe with some weird bends even if it has to be slightly notched in a few places and reduced at the turbo inlet. It's important to have 0 restriction before the turbo.
A good 9" K&N is more than enough flow for the hp the TL is making. You can always run a 14" filter if it makes you feel better. It's not needed but it will go much longer between cleanings. Is there any possible way to fab up a 5" hose that goes all the way to the grill area?
When are these cars acting funny with the filter installed? Is is part throttle where the boost tries to creep up?
The car needs a filter. It will run for a while. You could get 50,000+ miles but all it takes is to run through one dusty area to do permanent damage. It won't blow up but each time it sandblasts the cylinders and rings and dulls the compressor wheel. You lose some engine life each time. I've run into abrasion problems in the past on my car and that was running a K&N too. I had to switch to Amsoil filters to stop the dirt from getting in.
Personally I don't like filters bolted straight to the turbo. Shoot for a good 6" of straight pipe before the inlet if space permits.
You could even do a 5" pipe with some weird bends even if it has to be slightly notched in a few places and reduced at the turbo inlet. It's important to have 0 restriction before the turbo.
A good 9" K&N is more than enough flow for the hp the TL is making. You can always run a 14" filter if it makes you feel better. It's not needed but it will go much longer between cleanings. Is there any possible way to fab up a 5" hose that goes all the way to the grill area?
When are these cars acting funny with the filter installed? Is is part throttle where the boost tries to creep up?
The car needs a filter. It will run for a while. You could get 50,000+ miles but all it takes is to run through one dusty area to do permanent damage. It won't blow up but each time it sandblasts the cylinders and rings and dulls the compressor wheel. You lose some engine life each time. I've run into abrasion problems in the past on my car and that was running a K&N too. I had to switch to Amsoil filters to stop the dirt from getting in.
I believe that Rodney has only installed a filter directly to the turbo which was causing it to surge. Kn went the extra mile and added several inches of silicone tubing in between the filter and the turbo. He said this helped the surging a great deal but didnt eliminate it.
Space seems to be the big issue. If you put a tube on the inlet it comes in contact with the intake pipe which is only 5 inches away max. Then you have to make bends in the tube.
I know KN had to cut the intake pipe and remove the lower portion of the fuse box just to make the the tube and filter fit. If and when he goes to the dyno and finally gets a tune, and the filter is not causing any problems, then I will do what he did.
09-15-2010, 07:11 AM
#4010
I can't speak for the AT but I have a 9" K&N that is about 3-4" away from the firewall.
I removed the bottom of the underhood fuse box and adjusted the charge pipe connected to the TB so I could angle it perfectly into an open area.
I won't say it is hurting drivability. I am still slightly stumbling near or at the boost controllers limit and I am assuming it is because of my lack of tuning. I don't hold it for very long because I am already going way faster than the speed limits allow in this area. In between it is well behaved.
The area I live in is all sandy and I won't ever run without a filter for an extended period of time.
I removed the bottom of the underhood fuse box and adjusted the charge pipe connected to the TB so I could angle it perfectly into an open area.
I won't say it is hurting drivability. I am still slightly stumbling near or at the boost controllers limit and I am assuming it is because of my lack of tuning. I don't hold it for very long because I am already going way faster than the speed limits allow in this area. In between it is well behaved.
The area I live in is all sandy and I won't ever run without a filter for an extended period of time.
09-15-2010, 12:41 PM
#4011
Racer
How much money has everyone put into this turbo kit so far? i havent had time to read this entire thread because its really a lot so i dont know if anyone has talked that much in depth about the pricing.
09-15-2010, 01:12 PM
#4012
6k for the kit $1500-$4000 for the install depending on how many supporting mods you have installed at the time. I replaced the timing belt, clutch engine mounts, dyno time to work out the bugs. Supporting mods can also vary, based on the power level you are aiming for. I bought coilovers, methanol injection, 18's with sticker tires, DR's for my 17's. I originally was going to have everything installed at the same time but the $3700 install quote caused me to rethink that.
09-15-2010, 01:19 PM
#4013
Team Owner
6k for the kit $1500-$4000 for the install depending on how many supporting mods you have installed at the time. I replaced the timing belt, clutch engine mounts, dyno time to work out the bugs. Supporting mods can also vary, based on the power level you are aiming for. I bought coilovers, methanol injection, 18's with sticker tires, DR's for my 17's. I originally was going to have everything installed at the same time but the $3700 install quote caused me to rethink that.
09-15-2010, 07:50 PM
#4014
I don't launch the car very hard to preserve the drivetrain, but the car pulls so hard in the upper gears and the low end TQ is so strong. They are needed to keep me competive with cars that have better traction from weight transfer. I only run them on the weekend right now and locals are starting to notice the 18's in the rear and stock 17's in the front. I only bought two so I may buy the other two for SCCA this year or atleast run the stock rims on the rear.
09-15-2010, 08:17 PM
#4016
Team Owner
I don't launch the car very hard to preserve the drivetrain, but the car pulls so hard in the upper gears and the low end TQ is so strong. They are needed to keep me competive with cars that have better traction from weight transfer. I only run them on the weekend right now and locals are starting to notice the 18's in the rear and stock 17's in the front. I only bought two so I may buy the other two for SCCA this year or atleast run the stock rims on the rear.
Will it completely hook in first gear if you punch it from a roll with the clutch already engaged? I'm still pleasantly surprised at how well these FWD cars deal with over 420hp at the crank.
09-17-2010, 01:42 PM
#4017
Burning Brakes
Weve been away for a little bit happy to see this turbo thread all in tact thks to tons of people and there spport help and input ,we havent ignore the partial throttle issue at all we are working on it and should have some results by weekend as were out of town now til then,we havent posted anything on this topic due to the fact beymer is also working on something as well and already has a thread dedicated to this,so hopefully between the two of us we will have good results which in return will help out all of us as far as tuning the car to its full potential with a safety and confidence....
We"ve once again remodded the kit in the last few weeeks for more room less manifold piping which in returns lowers under hood temperature i know worthless without pics ill have pics up of kit installed as im away doing an install so thru out the install ill post up pics .
We"ve once again remodded the kit in the last few weeeks for more room less manifold piping which in returns lowers under hood temperature i know worthless without pics ill have pics up of kit installed as im away doing an install so thru out the install ill post up pics .
09-20-2010, 03:35 PM
#4020
Now that I have my boost controller working correctly, I am finding no surging at all at least up to 5psi. I am working on the duty/spr settings to get it higher but it appears as though the filter combo I am using isn't an issue. The total length including the filter is about 19-20 inches. I could get a little more with a 90 deg bend but it would be a bear to install. It was hard enough as it was. Here are some pictures:
09-20-2010, 04:14 PM
#4021
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
09-21-2010, 02:29 AM
#4022
Burning Brakes
New product from jandr ,I've been using this heat shield for some time now before we introduced it we tested it to make sure it effective , as we all know the Tl are prone to heat soak in n/a aspirated form not to mention with upgrades such as supercharger or turbo , this product works amazing wonders when installed correctly it absorbs majority if not all the heat under the hood which in returns lower under hood temperature and iat , currently it's not listed on our site but will be up by the weekend ..
09-21-2010, 02:37 AM
#4023
Burning Brakes
This product has been used by multiple race team including Ferrari scca prep cars to lower hood temps and a few other top racing team ..This product is not be mistaken for your typical house ac ducting way more superior and most of all fire proof it will be sold as package along with all necessary hardware and detail instructions on how to install and jandr guarantees lower under hood temperature ..
09-21-2010, 09:33 AM
#4026
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
I like the new fitment.
09-21-2010, 10:00 AM
#4027
Burning Brakes
That's a super clean install. That's basically how the rwd/fwd VQ crowd routes the piping as well. Be careful with that plastic cover over the turbo though. The last thing you want is melted plastic all over the exhaust turbine housing and that SOB gets crazy hot. Even with a turbo heat jacket on, make sure there's at least an inch or two of air space.
Finally, you guys are nuts not running filters on those turbos. Sure, the turbo will likely be fine, but what about all the smaller debris like ultra fine sand and over abrasive particles suspended in the air that are getting sucked into the motor?
If anything, buy an HKS "mushroom" filter to put on the end that thing.
Finally, you guys are nuts not running filters on those turbos. Sure, the turbo will likely be fine, but what about all the smaller debris like ultra fine sand and over abrasive particles suspended in the air that are getting sucked into the motor?
If anything, buy an HKS "mushroom" filter to put on the end that thing.
09-21-2010, 10:20 AM
#4028
Burning Brakes
were currently running a mesh cover ,but due to high request we will have a filter application ,a turbo blanket works wonders which ive been using without any issues...
Last edited by pass427; 09-21-2010 at 10:24 AM.
09-21-2010, 11:06 AM
#4030
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
We def need more pictures of new fitment. 
09-22-2010, 08:09 PM
#4031
Im liking the new design. Looks like the turbo inlet is sitting right in the space between the headlight and frame. Perfect for nice intake/filter which I know we all want.
That heat shield is interesting. With Inaccurates UCM, my front/lower grills removed and the turbo blanket, my manifold is no longer hot any more. Even after sitting in traffic on hot days, you can put your hand on it.
I swapped out the meth nozzles for bigger ones. Ive had the meth running for one week so far. I pulled the nozzles and the holders and this is what they looked like. The mesh screen almost looks clogged but it was spraying fine. The nozzle holder had some build up inside. Is this normal?
That heat shield is interesting. With Inaccurates UCM, my front/lower grills removed and the turbo blanket, my manifold is no longer hot any more. Even after sitting in traffic on hot days, you can put your hand on it.
I swapped out the meth nozzles for bigger ones. Ive had the meth running for one week so far. I pulled the nozzles and the holders and this is what they looked like. The mesh screen almost looks clogged but it was spraying fine. The nozzle holder had some build up inside. Is this normal?
09-23-2010, 12:20 AM
#4032
Safety Car
Uuugh. I didn’t read about anything like this while I was researching meth kits. The only thing that I read similar to this is if you run pure methanol (I know you aren't) and let the system sit, used, for a few months. And in those cases, the build-up is a dry white powder.
Your looks to be a slimy texture. Is it a dry substance (gritty feel) or slippery slime?
It looks like you used a clear silicone sealant (RTV) on the threads. Did you use the sealant elsewhere upstream? The goop looks like it could be sealant that came dislodged from upstream and got caught by the mesh.
Your looks to be a slimy texture. Is it a dry substance (gritty feel) or slippery slime?
It looks like you used a clear silicone sealant (RTV) on the threads. Did you use the sealant elsewhere upstream? The goop looks like it could be sealant that came dislodged from upstream and got caught by the mesh.
Last edited by Inaccurate; 09-23-2010 at 12:22 AM.
09-23-2010, 12:42 AM
#4034
Uuugh. I didn’t read about anything like this while I was researching meth kits. The only thing that I read similar to this is if you run pure methanol (I know you aren't) and let the system sit, used, for a few months. And in those cases, the build-up is a dry white powder.
Your looks to be a slimy texture. Is it a dry substance (gritty feel) or slippery slime?
It looks like you used a clear silicone sealant (RTV) on the threads. Did you use the sealant elsewhere upstream? The goop looks like it could be sealant that came dislodged from upstream and got caught by the mesh.
Your looks to be a slimy texture. Is it a dry substance (gritty feel) or slippery slime?
It looks like you used a clear silicone sealant (RTV) on the threads. Did you use the sealant elsewhere upstream? The goop looks like it could be sealant that came dislodged from upstream and got caught by the mesh.
I used the e6000 goop sealant (http://www.ottofrei.com/store/produc...productid=3460) that came with kit on all the tubing connections. The tubing entering/exiting the pump, tank and solenoid. The instructions didnt say to do it this way but I wanted to prevent any potential leaks. However, all the seals look exactly the same now as they did when I put the goop on. Plus, all the seals I made had over a week of drying time.
Ill give it another week and pull out the new nozzle and see its the same way. Some brake cleaner cleans them right up but its annoying if I need to do this all the time. Snow says to spray the mesh screen ONCE a year lol
09-23-2010, 12:55 AM
#4036
I was at the store today and I noticed a spectre air filter that looked like it would fit on the turbo inlet. It was only 20 bucks so I figured I would give it try and see what happens. Ive been running no filter since the install.
It was raining earlier so the streets are still a little wet. I was spinning 3rd gear on the highway a few times. But, the few times where I had traction, there seems to be NO difference in performance with the filter. Spool seems to be the same and there is no hesitation. Ill have to wait until the rain stops to really get deep into 1st and 2nd gear but up to 4k rpms feels the same.
Id like to do what Kn_tl has done with routing his filter under the fuse box but that will have to wait for now. Before I moved the battery to the trunk, I had the power wires for my amps in that location. I never moved the wires and they are in the way but I have plans to move them and get some straight tubing with a big amsoil filter.
It was raining earlier so the streets are still a little wet. I was spinning 3rd gear on the highway a few times. But, the few times where I had traction, there seems to be NO difference in performance with the filter. Spool seems to be the same and there is no hesitation. Ill have to wait until the rain stops to really get deep into 1st and 2nd gear but up to 4k rpms feels the same.
Id like to do what Kn_tl has done with routing his filter under the fuse box but that will have to wait for now. Before I moved the battery to the trunk, I had the power wires for my amps in that location. I never moved the wires and they are in the way but I have plans to move them and get some straight tubing with a big amsoil filter.
09-23-2010, 11:01 PM
#4037
Burning Brakes
Quick video of a completed install for a non forum member I completed today in Wyoming Rocksprings .......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iupJv...e_gdata_player
