Xiomaro

iTrader: (5)

yeeeea... my car when it was running with some wacky stuff was making over 400 as well... I think your prediction is a bit late, lol

05AcuraTL916

just wondering if a company made a super charger stage 2 for the TL? since its kindve in the same section as producing power.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

I know you guys dont like numbers unless they come from the track but I was playing with my g-tech and got a few numbers.

68 degrees out 50% humidity
IATs 90-95*

0-60...5.3 1st gear up to 3000rpms is killing me

1/4...13.8
mph..106

I dont even wanna know what the 60' would be

I figure I need the practice before I go to the track. Still needs more tuning, a little more power and the water/meth

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

CT Engineering was the only company that made a S/C specifically for our cars. The S/C kit was incomplete, while this T/C from J&R Performance, is complete.

NVA-AV6

The valve train can reach 9K with springs and retianers, that is not the issue with higher revs, the real issue is the rod bearings and piston speeds that would be hit at 8500 RPMs, although we have a nice 50mm diameter (55mm for a J37 crank and rod set) rod journals the bearings are only 14mm wide, I would start getting real concerned about the TQ on the rod bearings making them want to spin in the journal.

NVA-AV6

Here is a "Stage 2 SC", Eaton M90 with Liquid to Air aftercooling....








Will not generate as much power as a properly tuned turbo, but more DD freindly. Also I havre been seeing more and more Liquid to Air usage with turbo setups. The mauin advantage of Liquid Air over FMIC is the moch reduced charge piping needed which reduces spool time and pressure drop. With the liquid to air system I am seeing air temp drops from 40F-60F while cruising.

Inaccurate

Some of us are more easy-going than others. I like and appreciate the numbers from the G-Tech.

Thanks Turbo Bert

Majofo

Whoa.. good posts Bert & Paul..

I hate cars

I like the M90. Absolutely hate the water/air setup. IMO these are when space does not allow a front mount or a race only car. They're great for a run or two but most suffer from heat soak after a few hard runs. All of our guys run air to air on the street and only the 8 second and below race cars run liquid/air where they're loaded with ice water before every run.

These days with the super efficient turbos and intercoolers along with methanol, your intake temps are going to be well below ambient anyway.

Another common myth is the intake plumbing hurting spool. I understand in theory it would sound like it would hurt but I've done enough turbo cars now to know it makes no measurable difference in spool time. I even took my original non-intercooled car and made a home made intercooler with 20' of 3" plumbing and a huge intercooler and I lost no spool at all. Many road race guys even put the intercooler in the trunk with no effect on spool.

Now exhaust plumbing is a different story.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

1000 miles logged on the turbo and so far so good. No major issues and nothing has broke yet lol. I have a 40 mile round trip commute to work each day. Some days I don't even see ANY boost. Car rides the same now as it did before the turbo....Smooth. While cruising on the highway you cant tell anything is different. Except the exhaust tone which is actually a tad quieter then before the turbo. Driving around town and not in boost has more of a throaty rumble since there are no more cats.

The trans is holding up fine and I haven't noticed any indications of problems. No mis-shifts and no shuddering. Did another drain/fill with Amsoil super shift fluid. I will be changing the trans fluid with each oil change just to be safe. This may be excessive but Id rather be safe then sorry.

Majofo

Damn you've been driving the shit out of it Bert. To be honest I wasn't sure if your trans could take it but I'm glad to hear it's still running smooth.

05AcuraTL916

wow that stage 2 super charger looks sick.

05AcuraTL916

but yeah back to the super charger, so there was never a complete kit for a SC? I swear I read something that it was completed when it was first introduced for like 4G for it. So your telling me theres only a complete turbo kit not SC. That turbo does look sweet it generates around 450hp correct. Would the turbo be safe though for a high mileage TL?

I hate cars

You'll hit a 13.0@110 just as it sits with some practice. Should be in the 12s without lifting off the throttle between shifts.

tenzingsherpa

damn i saw this just yesterday in person and all i can say is wow!!! i've see some ct supercharger pulls but the m90 was ridiculus.

pass427

I think Libert can agree that the mod that help the most is a turbo blanket which reduces the heat produced by the turbo ......i wasn't there when Libert install his but when I installed it on my car it definetly worked .

libert69

iTrader: (7)

^I can definitely say the blanket works extremely well at keeping the temps down under the hood. Cruising on the highway @ 70mph in 67 degree weather the IAT's were around 85*. Of course Inaccurates ultimate cooling mod helps a great deal.

Rodney, good thing you brought it to my attention about needing to cut out the lower portion of the cowl otherwise my way wasnt working to its full potential.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

Where is the best place to install an oil temp sensor? I dont want to use a sandwich adapter for the filter. I have a new oil pan sitting here that Im going to replace soon. How about somewhere on the backside of the pan near the oil drain hole? Is that area constantly submerged in oil while driving?

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Unless your manifold piping is a lot different than mine, you'll be limited in your choices.

NVA-AV6

I drill out and tap the drain plug for the temp sensor......

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

On the subject of methanol injection:

J&R hasn't run any injection with the tune supplied. They've put enough mileage on their TL to say that it's reliable and isn't knocking to the point where it's damaging the engine.

We are all adding injection system to our rides.

How should we really be using it? If the tune @ 7psi can be done without knock, do we really need to start adding spray as early as the documentation says?

With the wastegate and an electronic boost controller, even though the spring is set to blow @ 7psi, with the boost controller we can go beyond that, correct?

Would it be preferable to not rely on the spray for DD and use it to go beyond the 7psi boost?

I hate cars

I can't remember with all the pages in this thread but are they verifying it's not knocking with a detector?

If it for sure has no knock with no meth, you have more options for the turn on point. Personally I would have it kick on early and ramp up from there. It will still provide the charge air cooling for performance and octane just in case something goes wrong like a bad batch of gas.

It's really hard to believe there's no knock at 8psi on 91 but hopefully I'm wrong.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

If the tuner monitor's knock when on the dyno and tweaking the maps, is it likely that there won't be knock as it is driven normally?

I was just looking @ J&S and thinking about going there next.

Funny how I said I wouldn't be going beyond what was provided for boost but I am already looking at going up

pass427

Remember guys let me correct ihc 93 octane nothing less

phee

iTrader: (5)

why not go E85? just go all out

Majofo

Correcting IHC on octane is like trying to teach Einstein quantum physics. I'm sure KN must have mentioned 91 somewhere. In some parts of the nation.. 93 isn't available as well.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

Hey Paul, can you answer this question from Inaccurates post a few pages back...


Ive been letting the car shift on its own today and not removing my foot in between shifts. The shifts are fast, clean and grab the next gear immediately. Its very clear the ecu closes the throttle a great deal between shifts.

I kept bouncing off the rev limiter today in 2nd gear wot when I was trying to lift the foot to cause the shift. The trans would then stay in 2nd gear for a few seconds before shifting to 3rd. This only happens sometimes. Letting the trans shift by itself for all the gears is working much better.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

Can someone give me the IDEAL a/f ratios for idle, highway cruising and wot please. I am seeing SO many different numbers on different forums. What is considered safe under wot? What is not safe? What will give you more power under wot? Where do I want to be for reliability? Id like to know where I stand right now.

As you can see, Im all over the place.

Idle is 14.7-15.3. Before this week, Idle was always mid to high 16s. Not anymore for some reason.

1st gear WOT
11.2 @ 3500
11.8 @ 4000
Dips to 10.8 until 5000
Jumps to 11.4 @ 5100
Stays between 11.2 and 11.4 until 6500

2nd gear WOT
12.7 @ 4500
11.7 @ 5000
drops to 11.3 @ 6500

3rd gear WOT
12.8 @ 4500
Steadily declines to 11.5 by 6500

4th gear WOT
10.9 @ 4500
Stays 10.7-10.9 until 5900
drops to 10.0 by 6000


You can see in this vid how slow it is off the line. In this vid its exceptionally bad. Sometimes it pulls out much better then this. Very quick shifts though. Im letting the trans do the shifting here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H76IUErIj2U


In this vid you can see what happens *sometimes* when the trans doesnt want to shift. It just bounces off the rev limiter a few times.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciyn24lmGM4

tenzingsherpa

damn bro those video's are F**king sick !!!! i can't wait to be spooling. turbo ftmfw !!!

pass427

I'm sure ihc didn't look at it in anyway bad , and if it was mentioned earlier in the thread I must have missed it ..

I hate cars

The only reason I know about octane is I blew so many engines up in the old days. I honestly did not know if you guys said 91 or 93 octane.

pass427

^^ Ihc yea I myself learnt a lot from building an almotor compression ended up been too high for pump gas which taught me a lot about octane ,we do tune on 93octane and occasioy on 110 for those special occasions ,but Ihc with watermeth whats your guess as far as octane increase using 91 octane..

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

I didn't mention the octane level I am running because to be perfectly honest, I am not sure. I know there was 93 around here but I don't know for sure. I haven't been able to run my car much with the work I have been doing to it.

That brings up a good point though. What do you do if only 91 is available? Tune with the injection or try to get a knock free tune first (if that's possible on 91) and then add the spray?

pass427

I'm not sure what octane Libert is using but I remember that he mentioned he could get 94 octane I believe he'll correct me if I'm wrong ,so I'm not sure if he using it but with his next tuning session he wants to go 10-11psi think we"ll use the 94 octane and his meth kit should generate a high octane rating..

I hate cars

Nice vids.

For first gear I would shoot for 12.5-12.7 but only if you have a way to monitor knock. You can usually lean out first without any knock and the turbo will spool much quicker. For the rest, at least you're safe.

If you have control of the timing, retard it a few degrees and you'll see much better spool too.

I hate cars

Shoot for a knock free tune but if it requires excessive timing retard or rich mixture, use the meth to get the octane. I know it's a little scary relying on the meth but I've done it for years. The first 16psi on my car are knock free on 91. 17-29psi are totally relying on meth to keep the engine together.

From my experience, meth gives it the detonation resistance of ~110 octane.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

That would be from pure methanol?

Inaccurate

I am trying to figure out why Bert’s 5AT bounces off of the rev limiter.

According to the TL Service Manual, the PCM (the auto trans computer) uses the Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) as input data. Could the boost be causing the PCM to fail to shift based on the unexpected MAP values? Perhaps a computer programming bug ?

I hate cars

Yep. I'm basing it on nothing more than how much boost I can run on 91+meth vs race gas alone. 100% meth was roughly the same as 110 octane. But of course there are several factors that can change that such as volume.

In a worst case scenario you will get the detonation resistance of 100 octane, never will you have less than that.

I hate cars

I wonder if shift points as well as firmness are pulled off the MAP. This would mean it's shifting at redline by 1/2 throttle or less. Any thoughts, Bert?

If it's just shift points it would be worthwhile to alter the signal where 7-8psi=full rpm shifts. If it's firmness too I don't think I would mess with it.

Maybe NAV6 or bmeyer could give some input on rescaling of the sensor or even the outputs.

If it's a typical 2 bar sensor I could see how it would throw the ECU off.