johnAboy

i'm interested in buying the TL. i was pretty close to getting the 06 the other day, but with the deal not being exactly what i wanted it to be (for a late model 06) i thought i might hold out for the 07.

Does anyone know what month acura usually releases next year models? i heard the 07 RDX should be in showrooms in august so would an 07 TL likely join it?

Also, does anyone know if there will be a price increase?

Thanks in advance!

Xpditor

I'm expecting a November official date with some sneaking in before that.

Probably a few hundred more for the base price. That's creeping inflation.

No idea what the premium for the TL-S will be yet. Anyone remember what it used to be in the 2nd Generation?

BIGTIME

Understood-

I have watched this board for a few months- and no one seems to be able to get a handle on what seems to be the question of the century- What is Acura doing in 07/08.

I guess the folks here ( including myself) actually ran out of the ability to post 100% directly related posts - as there is absolutely no information other than the rumor mills.

I then did the logical thing at that point- which I only hope anyone with half a brain would do. I leased an 06 INFINITI with a 12 month term, getting a program that costs maybe 1/2 the cost of a subcompact rental at the airport, in off season.

In 11 months, maybe we all will be more educated.

johnAboy

Thanks Xpditor

My bday is in november so it looks like it's good timing

neuronbob

IIRC it was $2k. But I could be wrong.

acuraz88

Who here is willing to pay $2,000 for 35 hp?

Raheel

Well according to past sales, and the differences in the two cars, A Large Percentage of people

Xpditor

Check the price difference between an Infiniti M35 and M45, a Mercedes E350 and an E500, a BMW 325i and a 330i.

The last one is most telling. Same size 6 cyl engine but a difference of 40 HP (215 vs 255) $5,700 difference.

Will people be willing to pay $2,000 for 35-40 HP on the 2007 TL-S (plus the other goodies in the package)?

You bet they will. And then some will spend another $5,000 to supercharge it.

BIGTIME

Some people paid considerably less ( on a lease) and got 280 HP.

AltecBX

On a FWD....

Precision Crafted

Yep! The last Type S as we know had different front seats, "sportier" steering wheel, black fake wood trim with Ebony colored leather, "sportier" shift knob, 17" tires/ wheels, VSA, special guage package, extra colors, and stiffer suspension.

I'd guess that the seats, shifter knob (auto and manual), 18" tires/wheels, suspension, some sort of interior trim, a better VSA system, larger brakes, and special colors will go along with the extra hp. Also too, OnStar was added with the Navi system so it may make a return.

chill_dog

Those with a CT exhaust paid $1k for 5hp...makes $2k for 35 look pretty good, huh?

And around here, about half of the late model 2G's I see are Type S's, so I guess quite a few people were willing to pay the few extra bucks for all the goodies it came with. Heck, I would.

ITL

Yep, Many 3rd GENers have paid $2200 for CT exhaust and high flow cats, adding approximately 30hp.

gotsand

Found this on the Acura MDX site this morning.


http://www.acuraahead.com/index.cfm

havenlock

Sweet. not that far. I'll go and take pictures.

edit: except that registration is full

Xpditor

I tried to register. Both waves are full already.

In the hazy pics of the TL that flash quickly, I don't see any discernable difference. They give a front view and a side view and it looks identical to me (to a 2004-5-6)

The amber directionals are still there. I don't see driving lights moved. They don't show the back.

havenlock

I doubt those images are anything more than 2006 silhouttes.

Mike_TX

Note it says " ... more powerful TL."

Xpditor

Fixed.

havenlock

Is the '06 different than the '04?

johnAboy

Nice find gotsand...can't wait to see the pics!

Hopefully someone on here is going to it

kamal

I live a little less than an hour away from Nemacolin, i'm gonna try and sneak in a peek for sure ..... with my canon

Black_6spd

Why not? Honda is the king of making reliable cars that can achieve 100+HP/L as seen in the S2000, ITR, and RSX-S. Improvement-wise, The 2006 TSX gained 15 HP without any changes to displacement. With the earlier Integra, a GS-R made 30 HP over the higher displacement LS model without affecting fuel economy.

I believe the only reason Honda is going with a 3.5L is due to marketing reasons. (i.e. "I've got more displacement than you; I've got a V8," etc). If Honda really wanted to, they could easily design an iVTEC DOHC 3.0L V6 with over 300 HP. However, they are probaly well aware of the market's response (or lack of) when you don't play the displacement game.

Xpditor

Not on the outside. Which is my point. :wink:

Mike_TX

Well, making horsepower out of low displacement isn't totally rocket science ... but making tractable horsepower is.

You yourself cite the S2000, which is well known for having too little torque until it gets 'way up on the pipe. That's the trouble with low-displacement, high-horsepower engines, and you've got to learn that horsepower isn't what snaps you back in the seat and rips you around another car on a narrow two-lane road. It's torque. The S2000 is a light sports car, so it can get away with it to some extent, but that's still the criticism everyone has of it.

And the more horsepower you try to squeeze out of a lower-displacement engine, the more torque is going to suffer (yes, there are certain high-tech exceptions, like dual-stage turbochargers and small-volume superchargers, etc., but those aren't on the table). Torque generally moves farther up the rpm scale - and decreases - as engine horsepower increases in any given displacement.

So the solution is more displacement. Period. And it's not a "game" or oneupmanship ... it's physics. And IMO, physics has said "The 3.2-liter has served you well, but if you want much more power without turning it into a torque wimp, you need more displacement."

Now, Acura already has a 3.5-liter engine, so why would they spend a gazillion more dollars trying to eke a few more horsepower out of the 3.2? The 3.5 could pony up the needed hp without breaking a sweat, and do it with more torque. So it only makes sense to me to use the bigger engine.

That's why.

Black_6spd

I hope the F1 cars know about this thing called displacement. Last time I checked, they were making pretty good enough power to 'snap' one back into their seat (or helmet) with only 2.8L.

Sarcasm aside, it's obvious I'm a bit peeved toward the displacement trend and it's dissapointing to folks like me who comes from automotive design. With that said, I'm pretty much in agreement with you. Until the consumer dictates otherwise, less emphasis will be placed on motor efficiency (i.e. Hummer, other gas-guzzling SUVs, V10 luxury cars, etc). I have a feeling gas prices in the U.S. will be $4/gallon for premium by next summer.

And less torque from squeezing more HP? Please look at the numbers for the Integra LS vs. GS-R or even Type-R. The toque is still there despite the tweaking of the motor. It just happens to fall elsewhere on the powerband due to a decreased R/S ratio.

In regards to "a gazillion dollars," this isn't Chevy we're dealing with. Afterall, this is up Honda's alley. What's so difficult about putting another cam and having vtec lobes on both the exhaust and intake (as opposed to today's J32 vtec on the intake side only)? In the end, having more torque on a FWD car makes less sense due to the following reasons:
- less fuel economy
- heavier weight
- worse F/R weight distribution
- toque steer / traction issues

That's why NOT.

neuronbob

why doesn't someone who lives close by fill out the form and go as an Acurazine rep? The test drive of the 2007 TL could be noteworthy.....or not. I wish I had known it was coming up....that would have been a nice trip.

sweetride01

Another example of a good relatively small displacement engine is the current 3.2l 333hp M3 engine... it also has something like 260 lb-ft of torque.

Mike_TX

I don't think we disagree that much. And of course, if you're from automotive design, you know why Formula 1 cars can make the power they can with their small displacement engines (as in Cosworth V-10's and V-8's). (And BTW, F 1 is limited to 2.4 liters now, under thenew FIA reg's.)

You've agreed with me about the torque moving up the rpm band on the cars you cited. They managed to hold onto the torque ratings by way of engine modifications.

I can't believe you really think "... putting another cam and having vtec lobes on both the exhaust and intake (as opposed to today's J32 vtec on the intake side only)" is so easy. Even small engine mods require -

- Engineering the change
- Producing prototypes
- Testing and perfecting the design
- Drawing up the spec's for new parts
- Tooling up for manufacture or putting it out to bid
- Field testing of final parts
- Redesigning the machinery to manufacture or assemble it
- Training of machine operators/assemblers
- Writing of parts and service manuals
- Reprinting spec sheets and ad copy
- Re-certifying the engine with EPA, CARB and other agencies


And the re-certification of the modified engine costs tons of money and takes months to do. BTW, I'm sure there's some parts I've left out, but you get the idea.

But I really don't know why you're averse to displacement anyway. I personally consider it a good thing. It doesn't have to be equated with gas-guzzlers and waste of our natural resources ... some larger engines are actually more economical to operate than smaller ones, and have nice side benefits for us drivers!

Be happy!

Mike_TX

Don't forget that's an inline 6, with VANOS infinitely-variable cam timing on both intake and exhaust sides. We give up some torque with V-6's, and VTEC ain't as good as BMW's system of variable valve actuation.

Xpditor

Mike and Sweetride and Black 6 Spd:

You're getting off the thread topic.

Yours is interesting, too, but you should start a thread in Car Talk if you want to explore it further.

Let's keep this thread focused on the 2007+ TL.

Thanks.

AltecBX

In what way can Honda improve the VSA on the new TL?

EternaLlx

I agree, the TLs VSA is great at creating oversteer and understeer when needed and making sure the car is going where you want when hydroplaning

havenlock

I was going to do that... but registration is full. I've already emailed two contact people from Acura

Black_6spd

Me =

It was still in regards to the 2007 -- we just had some discussion if a displacement bump was in the best interests of the TL's overall package. However, I can see it as a tangent turning into the old "High revving motors vs. Displacement" arguement.

Back to the 2007 TL....

There was some earlier comments 1-2 pages ago on whether or not a Type-S was a good idea. I suspect this might have been the result of some of the Acura survey questions being asked. The same questionaire was emailed to both TSX and TL owners and I remember one of the questions being:

"How interested would you be in a performance-oriented model similar to the M lineup of BMW and AMG version of Mercedes-Benz?"

I answered "Very interested" because "Hell Yes" wasn't available as an option. That question stood out to me among the 100's of irritating repeatative questions about the radio and key FOB.

*If* a Type-S TL is coming out, it's quite possible it was due to public demand.

neuronbob

Damn. Your effort is appreciated.....imaginary rep points.

Maybe Acura will allow a couple more people? I KNOW Acura reps read this board.....ahum....how about a hand, guys, to a few enthusiasts from the biggest TL board? Pretty please?

AltecBX

Is the VSA system found in the 2002 Type-S, the same as the one in the '06 TL? If it is I doubt acura will change that for '07 unless there is a dramatic increase in torque.

AltecBX

If that's the case, they will be introducing a 6-speed auto. Common Lexus is already introducing an 8-speed auto to the market. I really don’t understand why Honda is still supplying 5-speed auto to there new vehicles. Especially on a heavier RL. They can't just compete in displacement only. They have to compete and match them in transmission speed, Liter size, Horse power, torque, etc...

SaraC

I'm about to buy a 2006 TL, but am considering waiting for the 2007. Anyone know if the 2007 TL will have different colors available that the 2006 series? Also, I've read most of the preceding 28 pages and can't seem to find a consensus of how the 2007 may differ from the 2006. Sorry, but I'm new to this game . . . .

chfields

Thats because nobody really knows what is coming for 07. I test drove an 06 yesterday and the dealer did confirm that the type S is a rumor, but they don't expect much other than minor cosmetic changes. Until Acura comes out and tells us, it's nothing but conjecture.