2010 TSX - V6 engine confirmed
02-02-2009, 09:51 PM
#521
True, but it was also a trend back in the late 70's and early 80's and they went away then too. LukeaTron is right, if someone can figure out batteries, electric will be the way to go. If they never get batteries up to snuff, Honda will be ready with hydrogen.
02-02-2009, 09:59 PM
#522
In next couple of years 4cylinder engines without turbos will become extinct.
http://www.auto123.com/en/mercedes/b...id=104016&pg=1
2009 Mercedes-Benz B200 Turbo Review
2009 Mercedes-Benz B200 Turbo Review
http://www.which.co.uk/news/2009/01-...led-166940.jsp
All-new Mercedes E-Class unveiled
Other notable additions to the engine line-up include new 1.8-litre turbo petrol engines, badged CGI. The E200 CGI variant of this will include a stop-start function as standard, helping it return 41.5mpg with CO2 emissions of 159g/km.
All-new Mercedes E-Class unveiled
Other notable additions to the engine line-up include new 1.8-litre turbo petrol engines, badged CGI. The E200 CGI variant of this will include a stop-start function as standard, helping it return 41.5mpg with CO2 emissions of 159g/km.
I dont see new EU lineup without offering Turbos.
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...30/396008.html
2010 Volvo XC60 Review and Specs
Power comes from a new, downsized version of the trusty, 3.2-liter, dual overhead cam, 24-valve inline 6. This one displaces just 3.0 liters and features a turbocharger and intercooler, as well as all the modern engine technology you’d expect. I detected no turbo lag at all
2010 Volvo XC60 Review and Specs
Power comes from a new, downsized version of the trusty, 3.2-liter, dual overhead cam, 24-valve inline 6. This one displaces just 3.0 liters and features a turbocharger and intercooler, as well as all the modern engine technology you’d expect. I detected no turbo lag at all
Gas electric engine produce good torque numbers but hp numbers are way down compared to turbos and cars are heavier by 300 to 400lbs than normal 4cylinder. and it cost more to produce hybrid. Even toyota cant make profit on it. 4 cylinder enigine with 300 to 400bhp twin turbo will become common. Audi will be the leader of the turbo pack. that is the future of Premium Brand. Acura will either have to introduce it or become small marginal brand that will become liability on Honda.
Last edited by SSFTSX; 02-02-2009 at 10:02 PM.
02-02-2009, 10:01 PM
#523
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I'm afraid hydrogen is never going to be a viable source for something as small as car. It might work out for homes (Honda is currently working on home based fuel cells and hydrogen converters) and large heavy vehicles like trains and ships where they can take advantage of the more efficient but very heavy and hot types of fuel cells. The membrane based fuel cells just have to many issues (they don't work below freezing, they're fragile, they're easily damaged by impurities) and hydrogen distribution would take an unfathomably large investment. If I had to put my money somewhere it would be in supercapcitors and capacitor battery hybrids.
There's also a chance that compressed air systems could prove fruitful as a supplementary power source (via regenerative braking) but that potential has barely been explored at this point. It is a very efficient and easy way to store small amounts of energy for short periods of time though.
There's also a chance that compressed air systems could prove fruitful as a supplementary power source (via regenerative braking) but that potential has barely been explored at this point. It is a very efficient and easy way to store small amounts of energy for short periods of time though.
02-02-2009, 10:11 PM
#524
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I very much doubt this. For one thing, you'd need a fuel line the size of a garden hose. Turbos aren't magic. They don't make energy out of something. You still need to burn 300 to 400 hp worth of gas.
All the major manufactures are now saying the horsepower wars are over. The emphasis is going to shift to making the cars lighter and using electric motors to deliver the torque needed to get the vehicle moving. Horsepower numbers like are not necessary if you've got enough torque to accelerate the car to reasonable speeds (~100 mph or so). You can keep a car with aerodynamics of the TSX cruising at 70 mph with as little as 40 hp.
I think the high output vehicles will begin to be isolated more and more to the sports car category. Especially when gas prices inevitably start rising again. The cars of the next decade are going to have incredible 0-60 times but the 60-100 times will be far more lack luster. In real world conditions, it's going be a much more useful distribution of power and vastly more fuel efficient.
All the major manufactures are now saying the horsepower wars are over. The emphasis is going to shift to making the cars lighter and using electric motors to deliver the torque needed to get the vehicle moving. Horsepower numbers like are not necessary if you've got enough torque to accelerate the car to reasonable speeds (~100 mph or so). You can keep a car with aerodynamics of the TSX cruising at 70 mph with as little as 40 hp.
I think the high output vehicles will begin to be isolated more and more to the sports car category. Especially when gas prices inevitably start rising again. The cars of the next decade are going to have incredible 0-60 times but the 60-100 times will be far more lack luster. In real world conditions, it's going be a much more useful distribution of power and vastly more fuel efficient.
02-02-2009, 10:42 PM
#525
I very much doubt this. For one thing, you'd need a fuel line the size of a garden hose. Turbos aren't magic. They don't make energy out of something. You still need to burn 300 to 400 hp worth of gas.
All the major manufactures are now saying the horsepower wars are over. The emphasis is going to shift to making the cars lighter and using electric motors to deliver the torque needed to get the vehicle moving. Horsepower numbers like are not necessary if you've got enough torque to accelerate the car to reasonable speeds (~100 mph or so). You can keep a car with aerodynamics of the TSX cruising at 70 mph with as little as 40 hp.
I think the high output vehicles will begin to be isolated more and more to the sports car category. Especially when gas prices inevitably start rising again. The cars of the next decade are going to have incredible 0-60 times but the 60-100 times will be far more lack luster. In real world conditions, it's going be a much more useful distribution of power and vastly more fuel efficient.
All the major manufactures are now saying the horsepower wars are over. The emphasis is going to shift to making the cars lighter and using electric motors to deliver the torque needed to get the vehicle moving. Horsepower numbers like are not necessary if you've got enough torque to accelerate the car to reasonable speeds (~100 mph or so). You can keep a car with aerodynamics of the TSX cruising at 70 mph with as little as 40 hp.
I think the high output vehicles will begin to be isolated more and more to the sports car category. Especially when gas prices inevitably start rising again. The cars of the next decade are going to have incredible 0-60 times but the 60-100 times will be far more lack luster. In real world conditions, it's going be a much more useful distribution of power and vastly more fuel efficient.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog...s/4301053.html
Chrysler-Fiat Merger: Will Italian Design and Tech Save the Struggling U.S. Automaker?
Chrysler's current well of small cars and related technology does not run deep. The company would benefit from Fiat's small-displacement, turbocharged four-cylinder engines. The Fiat Bravo, for instance, has a tiny 1.4-liter turbo Four that produces 120 hp. Fiat has bigger versions, up to 2.0-liters, plus a number of fuel-sipping turbodiesel engines. Fiat also offers several flex-fuel models that can run on either methane or gasoline
Chrysler-Fiat Merger: Will Italian Design and Tech Save the Struggling U.S. Automaker?
Chrysler's current well of small cars and related technology does not run deep. The company would benefit from Fiat's small-displacement, turbocharged four-cylinder engines. The Fiat Bravo, for instance, has a tiny 1.4-liter turbo Four that produces 120 hp. Fiat has bigger versions, up to 2.0-liters, plus a number of fuel-sipping turbodiesel engines. Fiat also offers several flex-fuel models that can run on either methane or gasoline
http://www2.canada.com/montrealgazet...5-007a60d1bec7
Turbocharging is back: more power, less fuel
Turbocharging is back: more power, less fuel
02-02-2009, 11:38 PM
#526
If I had to put my money somewhere it would be in supercapcitors and capacitor battery hybrids.
There's also a chance that compressed air systems could prove fruitful as a supplementary power source (via regenerative braking) but that potential has barely been explored at this point. It is a very efficient and easy way to store small amounts of energy for short periods of time though.
There's also a chance that compressed air systems could prove fruitful as a supplementary power source (via regenerative braking) but that potential has barely been explored at this point. It is a very efficient and easy way to store small amounts of energy for short periods of time though.
I have seen someone working with compressed air, but not specifically regenerative braking. I had always wondered if there was a 'net loss' if you are using a gas or electric powered air compressor.
I've had a supercharged car, a turbocharged car and a car with a 9000 rpm redline that was NA. My order of preference is: 9000 rpm NA, supercharged car and last, the turbocharged car. I didn't NOT like my MR-2 Turbo, I just liked it LESS than my Supercharged MR-2 and my S2000. Lightweight (and safe) construction is a good goal. The question is how to do it economically. Colin Chapman used to 'add lightness' and I can see this philosophy coming back. We just need to make all the SUVs go away first....
02-03-2009, 12:02 AM
#527
^^I agree. I've never been a fan of turbos. The only one I'm mildly interested in is BMW 335, but that's only because they way they incorporated the turbos did not change the characteristics too much from their NA offerings.
In regards to hondas, turbos always seemed more like a base hit as opposed to the sort of home runs honda likes to hit. So I don't think they'll pursue turbo development. SSFTSX can argue for it all he wants, but I don't think its going to happen for honda. Its especially not going to happen in a mid model cycle vehicle.
In regards to hondas, turbos always seemed more like a base hit as opposed to the sort of home runs honda likes to hit. So I don't think they'll pursue turbo development. SSFTSX can argue for it all he wants, but I don't think its going to happen for honda. Its especially not going to happen in a mid model cycle vehicle.
02-03-2009, 12:45 AM
#528
Turbo revolution is just beginning.
Turbo is must. They are going to produce more power from smaller displacement.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...ecialGlobeAuto
Take the upcoming 2010 Chevrolet Cruze compact car. The Cruze, about the size of a Ford Focus or a Toyota Corolla, but roomier inside than both, will have one of the smallest engines on the market. Yet the 1.4-litre turbo will deliver the performance of a larger engine with fuel economy of 40 miles a gallon (U.S.) or about 5.9 litres/100 km.
Seven fuel-saving technologies
More developments and refinements of this sort are coming, and soon, too. Auto makers are working on "twin charging," for instance. That uses two turbochargers or a turbocharger paired with a supercharger, to get more power and greater fuel efficiency out of smaller motors.
In fact, GM, Ford, and others, are launching big initiatives that involve tweaking internal-combustion engines with turbochargers and a technology called gasoline direct-injection. Their goal: make fuel-stingy small engines perform like big ones.
Ford's Derrick Kuzak, the head of all product development at the company, says his company's EcoBoost technology makes smaller engines perform like bigger ones, with no fuel economy penalty.
With EcoBoost, Ford uses turbochargers and direct injection to cut fuel consumption by up to 20 per cent and limit greenhouse gas emissions without any loss of performance.
"We are going to have 500,000 vehicles in the next five years that will have this technology," says Kuzak.
Direct injection makes fuel burn more efficiently by squirting it straight into the combustion chamber, instead of mixing it with air in an intake port.
Turbos are tiny windmills spun by otherwise-wasted exhaust. The turbo runs a compressor that pushes air into the combustion chamber where it mixes with fuel. The enhanced air/fuel mixture develops more power without a large fuel economy penalty.
EcoBoost will make its debut in the Lincoln MKS later this year. Its twin-turbo, 3.5-litre V-6 will have 340 horsepower. That's the horsepower equivalent of a V-8. By 2013, Ford says it will offer EcoBoost engines on 90 per cent of its models
Take the upcoming 2010 Chevrolet Cruze compact car. The Cruze, about the size of a Ford Focus or a Toyota Corolla, but roomier inside than both, will have one of the smallest engines on the market. Yet the 1.4-litre turbo will deliver the performance of a larger engine with fuel economy of 40 miles a gallon (U.S.) or about 5.9 litres/100 km.
Seven fuel-saving technologies
More developments and refinements of this sort are coming, and soon, too. Auto makers are working on "twin charging," for instance. That uses two turbochargers or a turbocharger paired with a supercharger, to get more power and greater fuel efficiency out of smaller motors.
In fact, GM, Ford, and others, are launching big initiatives that involve tweaking internal-combustion engines with turbochargers and a technology called gasoline direct-injection. Their goal: make fuel-stingy small engines perform like big ones.
Ford's Derrick Kuzak, the head of all product development at the company, says his company's EcoBoost technology makes smaller engines perform like bigger ones, with no fuel economy penalty.
With EcoBoost, Ford uses turbochargers and direct injection to cut fuel consumption by up to 20 per cent and limit greenhouse gas emissions without any loss of performance.
"We are going to have 500,000 vehicles in the next five years that will have this technology," says Kuzak.
Direct injection makes fuel burn more efficiently by squirting it straight into the combustion chamber, instead of mixing it with air in an intake port.
Turbos are tiny windmills spun by otherwise-wasted exhaust. The turbo runs a compressor that pushes air into the combustion chamber where it mixes with fuel. The enhanced air/fuel mixture develops more power without a large fuel economy penalty.
EcoBoost will make its debut in the Lincoln MKS later this year. Its twin-turbo, 3.5-litre V-6 will have 340 horsepower. That's the horsepower equivalent of a V-8. By 2013, Ford says it will offer EcoBoost engines on 90 per cent of its models
http://wot.motortrend.com/6427786/we...way/index.html
With the future 1 Series, BMW is poised to make its successful (and surprisingly fast) compact car more efficient and environmentally friendly. Added to the lineup of European engines is a turbocharged 1.3L four-cylinder, as a well as a pair of turbocharged inline-six cylinders in 2.0L and 3.0L displacements.Word on street is that the car will tout an impressive 300-hp coming from a twin-turbo 2.2L inline-six. It'll likely ride on a stiffer, finely tuned lowered suspension, have bigger brakes, a plush interior and like its current M siblings, carbon fiber body panels. Sound insane? Yeah, we think so too. The current 3.0-liter, 300-hp 135i has plenty of power, but the thought of similar performance from a smaller, lighter engine is enticing.
With the future 1 Series, BMW is poised to make its successful (and surprisingly fast) compact car more efficient and environmentally friendly. Added to the lineup of European engines is a turbocharged 1.3L four-cylinder, as a well as a pair of turbocharged inline-six cylinders in 2.0L and 3.0L displacements.Word on street is that the car will tout an impressive 300-hp coming from a twin-turbo 2.2L inline-six. It'll likely ride on a stiffer, finely tuned lowered suspension, have bigger brakes, a plush interior and like its current M siblings, carbon fiber body panels. Sound insane? Yeah, we think so too. The current 3.0-liter, 300-hp 135i has plenty of power, but the thought of similar performance from a smaller, lighter engine is enticing.
02-03-2009, 09:20 AM
#529
WTH happened to my garage
After all those really good posts, the only thing that I can't get out of my brain is the RDX's target being men. 
It does ride too rough for most women/moms, I think about that when I drive the loaners.
The point about Americans wanting smooth V6 power and not high tech is not lost. The resulting market attracted to a 2.3T would probably not be what Honda wants anyway...the Evo/STI crowd.
It does ride too rough for most women/moms, I think about that when I drive the loaners.The point about Americans wanting smooth V6 power and not high tech is not lost. The resulting market attracted to a 2.3T would probably not be what Honda wants anyway...the Evo/STI crowd.
02-04-2009, 03:41 PM
#530
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Acura had a conference call today with the dealers and we are being told that the 2010 TSX will be out in June/July with the 3.5 V6 and 280 horsepower. It will also have 18 inch wheels and a sportier styled front end, no word yet on the price. It is the "new car" that will be shown at the Chicago Auto Show and pictures will be available sometime next Wednesday afternoon.
The new crossover is likely to be shown at the New York Auto Show.
The new crossover is likely to be shown at the New York Auto Show.
02-04-2009, 03:46 PM
#531
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New info
Acura had a conference call today with the dealers and we are being told that the 2010 TSX will be out in June/July with the 3.5 V6 and 280 horsepower. It will also have 18 inch wheels and a sportier styled front end, no word yet on the price. It is the "new car" that will be shown at the Chicago Auto Show and pictures will be available sometime next Wednesday afternoon.
The new crossover is likely to be shown at the New York Auto Show.
The new crossover is likely to be shown at the New York Auto Show.
).
02-04-2009, 03:48 PM
#532
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Acura had a conference call today with the dealers and we are being told that the 2010 TSX will be out in June/July with the 3.5 V6 and 280 horsepower. It will also have 18 inch wheels and a sportier styled front end, no word yet on the price. It is the "new car" that will be shown at the Chicago Auto Show and pictures will be available sometime next Wednesday afternoon.
The new crossover is likely to be shown at the New York Auto Show.
The new crossover is likely to be shown at the New York Auto Show.
02-04-2009, 04:01 PM
#535
280.....
I want to go to there.....
I want to go to there.....
02-04-2009, 04:14 PM
#537
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Thanks for the info. What's funny is the TSX is gonna become the fastest Acura in the lineup lol! I guess this will give all the old TL TypeSers something to move into.
02-04-2009, 04:31 PM
#538
Next questions: transmission choices? Possibly the TL's new 6 spd MT? LSD?
Though I'm interested, I'm with Luke. 3-4 more years with the gen1 TSX for me, at least. Then, I can hopefully have enough cash to buy a used TL-S or TSX V6.
:ibtheusualcomplaintsabout200+hpandFWD:
Though I'm interested, I'm with Luke. 3-4 more years with the gen1 TSX for me, at least. Then, I can hopefully have enough cash to buy a used TL-S or TSX V6.
:ibtheusualcomplaintsabout200+hpandFWD:
02-04-2009, 04:44 PM
#539
Senior Moderator
Acura had a conference call today with the dealers and we are being told that the 2010 TSX will be out in June/July with the 3.5 V6 and 280 horsepower. It will also have 18 inch wheels and a sportier styled front end, no word yet on the price. It is the "new car" that will be shown at the Chicago Auto Show and pictures will be available sometime next Wednesday afternoon.
The new crossover is likely to be shown at the New York Auto Show.
The new crossover is likely to be shown at the New York Auto Show.
But the best part of that news is in red IMO. I hate the 09's 17's and love the optional sport bumper. Great news.
No AWD isn't surprising IMO.
02-04-2009, 04:50 PM
#540
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I am not terribly surprised by the lack of AWD either. I'm still hoping that we might we see SH-FWD though. At the very least this thing is going to all but demand an LSD. 280 HP in a FWD with an open differential = 1 wheel spinning machine.
02-04-2009, 05:03 PM
#543
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Acura had a conference call today with the dealers and we are being told that the 2010 TSX will be out in June/July with the 3.5 V6 and 280 horsepower. It will also have 18 inch wheels and a sportier styled front end, no word yet on the price. It is the "new car" that will be shown at the Chicago Auto Show and pictures will be available sometime next Wednesday afternoon.
The new crossover is likely to be shown at the New York Auto Show.
The new crossover is likely to be shown at the New York Auto Show.
02-04-2009, 05:11 PM
#544
I will eat my words as I have been saying all along that Acura will cancel the V-6. The question will be the price, with the Yen strengthening by 18% to the $ in the last 4 months, Acura will take it in the shorts by selling an even higher content car built in Japan sold in the US. I am willing to bet there will be a very limited amount built/sent to the dealers - look for allocations. They will use this as a halo to get more people in the showroom with the "look at how nice the I-4 is" approach.
02-04-2009, 05:17 PM
#545
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I think that has been the general understanding all along. They aren't going to be looking for this to be their new bread winner. In fact I think they will be best served by keeping the availability low such as to give the impression that it's more exclusive and special.
02-04-2009, 05:43 PM
#546
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If it was just the V6 I'd figure eh, I can wait, but if they significantly improve the appearance of the car in addition to offering a V6 I don't see any reason to sit around.
These might be the last few years that we will have a chance to enjoy a 6MT V6 before everything goes DSGor hybrid or vegetable oil or whatever.
These might be the last few years that we will have a chance to enjoy a 6MT V6 before everything goes DSGor hybrid or vegetable oil or whatever.
02-04-2009, 05:45 PM
#547
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I will eat my words as I have been saying all along that Acura will cancel the V-6. The question will be the price, with the Yen strengthening by 18% to the $ in the last 4 months, Acura will take it in the shorts by selling an even higher content car built in Japan sold in the US. I am willing to bet there will be a very limited amount built/sent to the dealers - look for allocations. They will use this as a halo to get more people in the showroom with the "look at how nice the I-4 is" approach.
02-04-2009, 05:55 PM
#548
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It's unlikely they will be produced in equal numbers as the margin on the v6 will undoubtedly be thinner. I think the price will indicate their intentions. If it's up around $40k, it will likely be produced in larger numbers. If it's in the mid 30's (where I suspect it will be) they'll be using the profit hit to entice people into looking more closely at the model but they would be shooting themselves in the foot to give the car away at such a great cost to them.
I disagree with your thoughts about the luxury car buyer being unconcerned with fuel economy. At least not in this price segment. This is the sensible luxury segment.
I disagree with your thoughts about the luxury car buyer being unconcerned with fuel economy. At least not in this price segment. This is the sensible luxury segment.
02-04-2009, 06:05 PM
#550
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Price for one. It kept me away from the TL even though I (at the time) liked it more. I'm sure I'm not alone in this and in fact it's probably a much bigger issue to most people. I could have bought the TL but I was making the sensible choice. I don't regret it one bit.
02-04-2009, 06:17 PM
#551
Burning Brakes
Acura had a conference call today with the dealers and we are being told that the 2010 TSX will be out in June/July with the 3.5 V6 and 280 horsepower. It will also have 18 inch wheels and a sportier styled front end, no word yet on the price. It is the "new car" that will be shown at the Chicago Auto Show and pictures will be available sometime next Wednesday afternoon.
The new crossover is likely to be shown at the New York Auto Show.
The new crossover is likely to be shown at the New York Auto Show.
I can't wait to see the "sportier styled front end", hopefully it will take some of the bulk out of the appearance.
02-04-2009, 06:28 PM
#552
They'll probably make the shield bigger! Seriously, this jibs with what I've been saying all along. Including no SH-AWD. [breaks arm patting myself on the back]
02-04-2009, 06:45 PM
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Acura had a conference call today with the dealers and we are being told that the 2010 TSX will be out in June/July with the 3.5 V6 and 280 horsepower. It will also have 18 inch wheels and a sportier styled front end, no word yet on the price. It is the "new car" that will be shown at the Chicago Auto Show and pictures will be available sometime next Wednesday afternoon.
The new crossover is likely to be shown at the New York Auto Show.
The new crossover is likely to be shown at the New York Auto Show.
02-04-2009, 07:00 PM
#555
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It may be able to put more power to the ground with the lack of the AWD driveline loss. Without some sort of differential trickery there's no way it will match the acceleration though.
02-04-2009, 07:09 PM
#556
Lets not forget, the TL-S had pretensions of speed (type-s after all). We don't know what this TSX is really. If its just a gap filler (which I believe it is), then I don't think it'll be faster.
....with that said, there is alot to consider. Gearing, torque curves, LSD or not, even the fact that we're talking 18s will come into play.
....with that said, there is alot to consider. Gearing, torque curves, LSD or not, even the fact that we're talking 18s will come into play.
02-04-2009, 07:12 PM
#558
^^I'd take the one on the right personally