SpicyMikey

Exactly. It looks somewhat retro. I feel like I've seen this photo before. I'd bet big money it's not the redesigned RL but just an old photo or a chopped photo

static808

Quad exhausts looks cool, maybe a V8 or at least a 3.7L V6. The rear looks too S-Class-ish.. I hope its NOT the new RL.

Mike_TX

Of course, you are assuming the REST of the body still has gently curved lines. The whole thing might be squared off in the MMC.

(Okay, I know it's not likely, but nothing about this is really very likely, is it.)

.
.

VOdoc

Square seems to be where it's going again. Witness the Cadillacs.

The current RL has a fair bit in common with the last CL, a curvy dame if there ever was, particularly from the rear. Clearly the designers will head in the opposite direction soon. Think about the Acura Concept Car--it's all about severe angles and rectilinearity. I guess I could buy that spyshot as a MMC for the RL...though I wouldn't trade my '06 in for one.

Rexorg

Happy New Year!!! Only a few more months until we find out what the MMC or FMC of the RL will be. Among all the rumors, speculation, etc. I have forgotten that the upcoming '09 TL is going to be a FMC. As a former '04 TL owner the '09 might be too tempting to overlook. I wish Acura would release all their cars at the same time. As I stated a few weeks ago, I have my name on the list at my Acura dealership for an '09 RL. I only hope I don't regret my decision when the TL comes out. One thing I know for sure is that my next RL or TL will not be white.

TSX69

I hope that Acura truly has learned their lesson & have made a significant difference b/n the RL & TL to end cross shopping. From the sounds of it, the RL will @ the very least be larger & more luxurious but I suspect engines will still be similar as they do not have a V8 for the RL & they cannot make the TL too weak or it will never compete w/ the IS/ES or G - especially the Type S if it should return.

jhr3uva90

Is Acura (an American entity) designing the RL or is Honda (Japan) designing it? I think the difference between the RL/Legend's sales in Europe and the US shows that we have different tastes and ti would be in Honda's best interests to keep the design of that car overseas.

Chuck091279

Yes but they have succeeded before with the tsx which is europe's accord. I think acura needs to make the flagship a bit larger to compete with the ls460. Does anyone know if infiniti and lexus do the same thing - rebadge cars in different markets?

jhr3uva90

The TSX succeeds in the US not because of stunning design but because of perceived value. People basically perceive getting a "luxury" car at Accord prices, mainly because they don't know they are buying an Accord. Unfortunately, the Acura brand is known for bargain luxury. It won't be taken seriously in the over $45K arena unless it changes this.

jhr3uva90

The Infiniti brand does not exist in Europe or Japan; the cars are all called Nissan in those markets. The Lexus brand did not exist in Japan until 2006. Before then, they were all called Toyotas in Japan.

GoHawks

Doesn't the Mugen RL have a V8? If so, than it proves the current platform was designed to accept a V8.

Shotgun

I have difficulty coming to grips with all the claims that Honda doesn't have a V8! Given that Honda is alledgedly the worlds largest engine manufacturer and given that Honda makes V8's for it's F1 racing sleds, Honda should have no problem mass producing and fielding V8's on relatively short notice...

Your thoughts?

JeffS

The current design was done in Japan, but I believe I've read that the upcoming MMC was done in California.

JeffS

I hope/think that Acura is doing to MMC of the RL just before the new TL to help separate the two models.

I think you will see Acura try to move their FMC so they are not all introduced so close to each other like they did with the current gens TSX, TL and RL. They ran into the problem of having to many years without a new models coming out for showroom traffic.

Why no more white???

krio

Sorry, it DOES exist. In Russia and Ukraine officially dealers opened in 2006 and 2007, and in Europe in 2008 Nissan is planning the opening of a dealer web in all the big countries, as Germany, France, England, Italy.
We have the Infiniti FX, the G35, the M35x, and some (awful) QX57.

jhr3uva90

So the Infiniti brand will begin in western Europe in 2008. As of right now (January 1, 2008), those cars are still called Nissan in England, Germany, and the other western European nations.

neuronbob

The Mugen concept RL was a one-off with a V8.

TampaRLX-SH

The Mugen concept had a 4.0 V8 DOHC with 500hp.

Discuss.

Rexorg

No more white because I think the RL looks better in darker colors. Maybe a gray or red '09 RL depending on availability.

neuronbob

Not much to discuss there other that what has gone before, like WHY didn't Honda try to export that beast here?

JMHO, which most regulars here already know.

mrmako

The Lexus is sold here, with the dealerships opening in 2007.

Before 2007:

LS Series = Toyota Celsior
GS Series = Aristo
IS Series = Altezza
RX Series = Harrier
LX Series = Land Cruiser

Nissan sells all of their cars here, but only under the Nissan name:

Q45 = Nissan Cima, also called President for 2007 (the 03-06 Q ship)
M45/35 = Fuga (prior to 2004, it was the Gloria)
I35 = Bluebird
The Maxima and Altima are not sold here

Honda only sells Hondas here

RL = Honda Legend
TL is not sold here
TSX = Accord (2003 on up) (in A, TL, S and Euro R versions, all 4 door, no coupe)
USDM Accord = Inspire 4 door (no coupe), marketed as very up-level inbetween the Accord and the Legend (and priced that way too)
MDX = Honda MDX. Not very common, but can be had.
NSX = NSX (tough to sub for a $80K car)

just my

VOdoc

Fascinating to hear about the JDM. And instructive to see the differences in branding, which only now are beginning to converge on a global standard. (BTW some members have had a hard time understanding my skepticism of Lexus as a luxury brand in its own right, similar to Mercedes and separate from Toyota. This info underscores the fact that the brand distinction is artificial. I'm old enough to remember the USA launches of Acura and Lexus.)

Obviously Toyota now sees an advantage in segmenting Lexus above the main marque. Wonder when Honda will launch the Acura brand in Japan, if ever?

krio

Those cars as you say will always be called Nissan. In fact they are different models from the Infiniti. No Nissan Altima in Europe, or Skyline. Only Primera, Almera, Maxima, Quashquai, Patrol, X-Trail, Pathfinder...
Better come back to the Acura discussions.

krio

In fact in Europe the situation is even more complicated for Honda and Toyota.
We have not Camry. People doesen't know this car. I don't know why such a decision from Toyota.
The Lexus GS is not sold, we have only the Toyota Land Cruiser Prado, that is not sold in USA.
The Lexus GS has a a bagde "300", not "350", and 249 hp, RWD. Than we have the 430 and 450h.
The Lexus IS has only the 250 RWD ands a 220d, diesel.
No Lexus LX at all, only the Land Cruiser Toyota, but is cheaper inside of the Lexus.

The Honda brand has 2 Honda Civic, one hatchback (very sporty) and one sedan, as yours in USA, with the only 1.8 engine hybrid.
The eurpean Civic has a 1.8 engine diesel and not, both with 140 hp.
The Civic hatchback TYPE-R has a 2.0L engine with 201 hp.
The Honda Accord (Acura TSX) has a 2.0L engine with 150 hp,
a 2.4L with 190 hp (the TSX is 15 hp more) and
a 2.2L diesel with 140 hp.
The next gen. will be presented in Geneva 2008.
I think that the TSX USA, and the european Accord will get the same engine, a 2.4T, but with different power, and a 2.4 T diesel for the european market, and different front and rear fascia.
The Acura TL, my beloved car, is not sold in Europe, only a little bit in Russia and Ukraine.
The Acura RL is sold in Europe as Honda Legend only from the second half of the 2006. The RL was ready for selling at the end of 2004. Why 2 years of difference? Who knows! I think it's an error to sell the same car with different names...
The Legend has 5 hp more than the RL: 295, and, except the ugly front fascia wtih the H of Honda, they are the same cars.
It means a GREAT car.
I had the opportunity of driving both the cars, the RL and the Legend.
There is NO difference in quality at all, of corse, they are both produced in Japan.
But the RL looks better for the front fascia.
The Acura MDX is not sold at all in western Europe, and with the TL is the car that european people LIKE more, because of the sharp and aggressive design.

TampaRLX-SH

More V8 buzz...

http://www.motorauthority.com/cars/h...-get-v8-power/

Ikeno eludes to V8s entering Acura brand, but not specific to the RL, or any model year.

neuronbob

That's from a year ago. There was some talk from Honda about this over a year ago, but so far it hasn't panned out. We'll see...

Didn't I tell you to get back to work?

TampaRLX-SH

DOH!

It appears my research skills have gone south along with my one handed typing skills.

What years is it now?

krio

some NEWS from the Vtec site... At the end!

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=730362

Unless Acura's planning something in more secrecy than usual, they do not have plans to show anything new at Detroit.

2009 Acura RL MMC.

Unless their plans have changed dramatically, Acura should be revealing their revised Acura RL at the 2008 Chicago Auto Show. We don't know a lot about this car but from what we've heard this is going to be a rather significant MMC (mid-cycle model change). Considering 2009 is the 5th year of the current model cycle, we're not quite sure what to expect, especially considering the RL's really poor showroom performance.

Rexorg

Well, if indeed we see the '09 MMC RL at Chicago we only have 34 days to go since the media preview is 6 February. All our questions will be answered and then the fun really begins.

SpicyMikey

Talked to the sales manager at my Acura dealership yesterday and asked if he had any more info on the 09 RL. He's saying it's pretty certain from what he's been told that it's just a re-skin and a significant MMC. No ground up redesign. That would mean no new power train IMO. However, he did say that they continue to be told that the car will be longer and have more interior space somehow.

Eventough there is no new engine for 09 in the RL. It's another step in the right direction. It will be great to see a new shape and maybe updated cabin technology. Also curious to see how this translates to the Euro Honda Legend

Rexorg

Note: There is no mention of the 2009 RL debuting at Chicago on their site: http://www.chicagoautoshow.com/ However, it could be a last minute addition. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Rexorg

If there is no increase in HP then no '09 for me unless they add the Bose Media system like in the new Ferrari.

TampaRLX-SH

A longer RL could simply mean lengthening the front and rear facias an inch or two bringing the RL into full size spectrum (technically anyway) and meeting or exceeding the Accord's dimensions. Raising the trunk deck a little higher (super bangle-ize) would increase trunk dimensions (on paper). And plenty could be done in the back seat configuration / contours to tweek another .5 inches etc. Of course none of this would require major engineering and retooling on the assembly plant (which I still think the shut down is too short to accomodate major engineering or platform changes). Wrap it with some new sheetmetal, throw in some new content and viola! A NEW and IMPROVED RL! A MAJOR MMC!

More Power! (maybe)
Bigger!
Longer!
More Trunk Space!
More Back Seat Room!
New Styling! (sheetmetal tweaking, tailight, drille changes)
More DooDads! (Next Gen NAVI System likley)

Advance!

It could really be much to do about nothin'?

We sit. We wait. We watch.

neuronbob

I am hoping that the MMC is a last-minute add-on for the NAIAS, which is in two weeks and which I'm driving to Detroit to attend. After all, NAIAS is the biggest and most important auto show.

If it's ready for Chicago (two weeks after NAIAS), it has to be "ready enough" for Detroit. In addition, Acura's display at Detroit outshines its displays in other cities as we all know, so....we'll see and I'll report from Detroit.

123456SPEED

Erghh! Everytime I find a Honda product I like they drop it or change it!
Prelude.
Legend Coupe- I had both gens.
CLS - I waited for the 6MT version, then they dropped the CLS.

so now I'm looking at the RL. my first sedan! since there are no coupes. I liked it cause it was smaller! I know it is a luxury 'flagship' but I'm making due with the slim Acura offerings.

people still won't buy the RL even with a .5" increase in rear legroom, jeez!
now fixing the ugliest body parts I would like. but I want a smaller car, not bigger.

I can never win.

Rob144

Mmmmm...speculation......

I expect a wheelbase stretch with the space going to the rear of the car for additional rear seat and trunk space. I also expect that the car will be a little bit "taller", too -- more upright seating will enhance the roominess factor. The proportions of the current model are certainly nice and tidy -- I have to wonder how a longer RL of this generation will look.

I keep thinking that it will have to be bigger than 2009 TL and 2008 Accord, but even the Lexus GS350 is not appreciably bigger than the ES350 (at least on the inside). They just have a different mission. If Acura can identify and market the RL's different mission, then a few half-inches of legroom or trunk space here or there won't make much difference to potential customers looking for a near luxury sedan.

I wonder what they'll do with the interior and dash.

I expect they'll bump up the power to keep ahead of the 2009 TL. Maybe not the 3.7 engine, but more tuning. And hopefully a 6-speed transmission.

I'm with you 123456SPEED: I owned a '94 Prelude, '88 Legend Coupe, and '95 Legend Sedan. All are now defunct (at least the Legend nameplate is). Today's RL is really somewhat like a 4-door coupe (sorry Mercedes CLS).

In owning this car for a year and a half, I've only had an adult passenger in the back seat once. On a couple of occassions, my kids ride in the back (or front), but their little legs mean their shoes hit the back of the front seats.

One thing for sure, there's a lot of new Acura models in 2009: TSX, TL, and RL MMC. I hope they get their act together.

Rob144

halfaznguy87

Like some I doubt they will make the RL bigger just for a mid-model refresh, but who knows.
Where they claim that interior space for passengers might increase I can see. If you guys recall, when the previous generation MDX went through its refresh they increased leg room by about an inch. I forgot how the engineers figured out how to do it but they did.

So maybe they might do it with the RL, we'll find out..

TampaRLX-SH

A platform stretch would be the most beneficial. I think the wheelbase of the RL is shorter that its same class, size competitors. I think that inch the Accord now has on the RL brings out too much overhang, where the RL tweaks by on those proportions (along with flowing design).

But would a platform stretch impact too many body panels, especially the roof an C pillar design? Not to say it cannot be done, but the timeframe to retool the plant and get 6 weeks of inventory up and shipped for a spring launch? My bet is no, but I'd be happy to be wrong.

A 6 speed tranny would be a gem of a surprise. Buzz on the new TL is a 6 speed. Getting the RL to market 1st with the 6 speed, would be wise, but will the next gen TL trump the MMC RL? I expect so.

I hope the general flow of the dash is not hacked. I hope the center stack is what is modified and configured to handle new features (hard drive, ports, etc). Cosmetics to the instrument cluster would be cool too. But I love the dash shape, materials and wood. I have only dusted this dash and treated it ONCE in 1.5 years. My TL needed dash treatments every other week!

Power...this wildcard. Place your bets gentlemen...this is going to be Acura's winning hand, or a bluff.

SpicyMikey

As rumors converge it seems almost certain that the "stretch" will happen (inside and out). It's the one rumor that as been consistent across time and sources. But, will they change the wheel base and the overall dimensions of the platform? I'm with Tampa. I don't think it's going to be as drastic as some hoped. I hope I'm wrong.

Also, I wonder what the physical specs are on the 37 engine versus the 35? Could they easily slip the 37 into the new RL with a new 6 speed AT? That would be significant right there, let alone new skin and a technology refresh.

ishanb

Just an FYI...at the MacWorld Expo in San Francisco starting Jan 15 at the Moscone Center, Acura is going to have a large display of cars. Very odd, unless Apple and Acura are announcing some innovative collaboration. Might also preview the '09 RL. Here's to hoping...