TSX69

What you are saying does makes sense but since the RL struggled in the mid-luxury class, I am not sure how successful it would be going up market. Maybe it's best to make a new name & start fresh?

I always thought Acura should follow Lexus in terms of:
TSX = IS
TL = ES
RL = GS
{new model} = LS

Acura does very well in the entry level luxury department so having 2 vehicles there could help their #s. However, the TL has been so successful that moving it up a class might actually work.

U8INIT

Well when the 3rd Gen TL came out it was class-leading. So I don't think Honda is afraid to do it again. Whatever it is they decide to do

Mike_TX

I'm repeating myself, I know, but most car companies aren't constantly trying to outdo the other guy. And Honda *certainly* isn't.

The kind of one-upmanship competition some of you guys are hoping for exists in Italy, between Ferrari and Lamborghini, or in Germany between M-B's AMG Division and BMW's M Division, but not down in the ranks of mass-production family cars like Accords and Camry's or Q45's and RL's. Sure, they try to be competitive, but not by sitting around in secret meetings talking about shoehorning 500hp engines into Civics or making RL's that will make BMW 7's blush. There just isn't enough money in mainstream cars to do that.

So, while we all might like to see big monster engines and every possible bell and whistle stuffed into the new RL, the accountants are busy counting beans and marking things off the list so they can make a buck.

Just sounding a note of reality here ...

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Mike_TX

Was it? The 3.2-liter engine in the TL had a whopping 2hp advantage over the 3.5-liter in the Nissan Maxima, its closest competitor (257 v. 255). Straight line performance was very close. True, the TL had a little more content and nicer interior, but it also cost more!

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static808

I would imagine that Acura might revamp the line and have it similar to BMW
Sub-TSX (Future?) = 1 series = ?
TSX = 3 Series = IS
TL = 5 Series = GS
RL = 7 Series = LS

The ES from Lexus is their upgraded Camry. They sell too many to discontinue. Lexus should invest more in the ES and scrap the GS which struggles compared to the E and 5 series.

I think the TL could get pretty close in driving dynamics with a 5 series IF Acura does the job right with the FMC. If it does go upstream and is affordable, the new TL could be an even higher volume car than it already is.

krio

I agree at 100%. But I fear they feel confused about marketing strategy...

krio

I agree with you at 100%. But it seems to me Acura feels confused about marketing strategy from the last RL on...

neuronbob

OK, since people are posting here about what they want in their RL....

Neuronbob's dream RL

Exterior:
Leave the overall shape alone other than to change the rear so that it flows better with the sides of the car.
Get rid of those dowdy base wheels. Forever. They don't even work in Japan. Give us some split spoke wheels (aka A-Spec) 17", with 18" and 19" as dealer-installed options.
Change the grille so it is more like JDM Honda. Looks cleaner! The new corporate grille on the MDX reminds me of a rhino.

Interior:
iPod text integration with navi
Sport pedals as dealer-installed option
XM or Sirius choice (won't happen, Honda is a partner in XM)
Ventilated AND heated seats, please. While it gets plenty cold here in Cleveland, it also gets plenty hot during the summer, too.
Reclining rear seats?

Drivetrain and suspension:
V6 with more low end torque, please! Max torque available at 5k rpm is not acceptable in a luxury car anymore. V8 as no holds barred option.
Leave SH-AWD alone unless the weight will be less
Must have a sport suspension as a marketed option (A-Spec please) for those who like to feel the road along with their luxury. Alternately, the adjustable suspension in the MDX others have mentioned here would be nice.

Is that too much to ask?

Please don't take me the wrong way, I love my RL. However, it seems we have a unique chance to influence the powers that be at Honda by what we write here.

larrynimmo

I agree with bob...i would also like to have more transmission speeds, a more uptodate navagation system...air tuned suspension (u set the ride)...better fuel economy while adding lots of torque....solar coated windshield...panaramic roof...add more speakers and wattage

neuronbob

I forgot about a six-speed tranny. That would help takeoff and mileage. I just want Honda to perfect its 5-speed trannies first, however. I owned a 2G TL and remember what happened with the then new 5-speed trannies.

TSX69

As an anti Ipod user {I have like 10 different players} & the fact that Ipod is losing some ground in mp3 player sales {altho they still dominate the market} I think that the RL should have like a 40gb hard drive & a USB interface. That way people can install a memory stick or their flash mp3 players & just transfer it over like a computer ... no matter what player you use, you can still get your music into your RL.

I think that Nissan does something along these lines ...

Oh & also like a lot of new mp3 players, people can copy & paste their videos onto the harddrive & watch them on the screen ... which, mind you, should have the option of a touchscreen since VW is going to make all their cars w/ em.

csmeance

^agree for the usb port idea, thats what consumers want, something thats universal but controlable, unlike the headphone jack method. But as for touchscreen, that is a double ney on acuras part as they are moving the screen up near the dash for easier viewing so you don't have to look down and take your eyes completely off the road, in the upper position, you have alot more road vision to look out.

In my opinion, acura is going to go with one of the two possible routes:
1. Have the TSX level with the 3 series, have the Tl level with the 5 series and KILL the RL off as Acura/Honda won't be taken seriously for 7 series Luxury.

2. Have the TSX compete with the 3 seriers 4 banger, have the TL compete with the 5 Series v6, and have the RL compete as the 7 series size with either a 5 series V6 or V8, a total 7 series would not be appliacable.

Going with the first option will keep honda's profits up and make the TSX and TL appeal to larger markets. If honda goes with the second, it will be easily be overtaken and land in the same boat again with in 3 years.

ssim3

In the US there is no 4 banger 3 series anymore. So the TSX may be the same size, but does not compete with a rwd 6.

csmeance

sorry, meant the I-6 in terms of power, my mistake.

TSX69

I never use my touchscreen on my TSX {mostly bc I am too lazy to clean it} but I do think that it should be an optoin - just for the sake of having options. In the luxury market especially, I think that having more options available will bring more customers - this way people who like using the knob and people who like using the touchscreen both will be pleased instead of looking elsewhere for the style that they prefer.

In order to save the RL, Acura should throw every trick in the book to make sure no one is turned away bc the RL lacks something that the competition has ... hard to do but it would be nice.

On a side note: the Lexus GS just had another recall to fix a leaking fuel pipe so maybe its declining reliability (Consumer Reports no longer recommends the AWD version) will help the RL sales -- these are exciting times coming for Acura ...

2007AcuraRL

I have been away from this site for a bit as some of you know my RL was wrecked back in October and I sitll havent gotten it back from the body shop. I have seen some discussion about the mid model change anticipated for the RL. I went looking for a replacement car today and one Acura dealer told me the '09 should start appearing at dealer lots by May - June. Its still on the same platform, doesnt have a V8, and will be mostly cosmetic changes to the exterior. he wasnt sure about the interior.

Happy New year to you all!

Rexorg

That seems to confirm what has been reported lately. Can't imagine the '09 RL not getting some kind of major HP boost, or a V8, as that has been one of the major shortcomings according to the RL naysayers. I am still not convinced the '09 RL won't have a V8. I guess we will just have to wait until May-June.

Mike_TX

Hmmmm ... sounds like the MMC is getting more watered down as the rumors continue to roll in.

But the "mostly cosmetic changes to the exterior" comment doesn't jibe with everything else we've been hearing. Unless, of course, they free up interior room by going to thinner seatbacks or something. Still, that doesn't account for all the reports that the trunk will grow in size.

I suspect this dealer doesn't really know much about it.

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kirbyflorida

The v-8 would need a new tranny, bigger engine compartment, etc, this is a BIG change, so I say probably will not happen.

The car will be larger most likely due to the fact that is the feedback sales gave to Acura, people wanted a larger car. I personally do not want a bigger car but plan on it.

Chas2

I cannot see them stuffing a V8 in there. The 3.7, yes. Six speed, I doubt it, mostly because we have not heard anything about a new tranny, although the RL may be the place to introduce it. More likely any 6 + speed will be in the new TL... We will have to wait and see.

TampaRLX-SH

If they have developed a V8 for a consumer vehicle, it is well hidden...which Honda is very good at doing. There is a new Canadian engine plant opening in 2008, but all reports are for 4 cylinder engines only.

There is a lot going on in Saitama. The LEGEND / RL plant is retooling soon. There is a new plant for vehicle assembly being bult nearby in Yorii and will open in 2010, The LEGEND / RL plant is to be completely remodeled when the Yorii plant opens. Seems like good timing for a full model change to be introduced by the Yorii plant

Meanwhile a new engine plant nearby Saitama is due to open in 2009...again good timing for a new engine (V8 or V10?). And to sweeten the mix, a new tranny plant is to open late 2009. Which vehicles, engines and trannies are not specified other than 'domestic and global' vehicles. But the pieces seem to fit.

IMHO it all points to the next Gen LEGEND / RL appearing as a late 2010 / 2011 model.

In the mean time, I am anticipating tweaking to the current vehicle, perhaps a platform stretch, some sheetmetal cosmetics and likely the 3.7 V6 along with some content goodies. Likley not enough to make me wander from my RL.

There is just not enough time between February and a launch in late spring to produce anything requiring any significant engineering changes.

neuronbob

We'll see if Acura has learned anything this summer, I guess. The timing is consistent with other rumors, but the feature set conflicts.

As far as the V8....as much as I'd love to see that in an RL or other Acura lux car, I think that with the new CAFE standard, that idea is done. Even though the mileage differential is minimal between V6 and well-tuned V8s, my guess is that Honda will merely try to do better with more efficient V6s or start bringing diesels over here faster to keep their title as"most fuel efficient fleet". I think that's more important to them than satisfying luxury customers.

PS: I plan to merge this with the bigger 2009/3G RL thread.

Mike_TX

As usual, you make a good point, Bob. The new CAFE standards don't completely kick in until 2020, but it'll be interesting to see how it affects automakers between now and then.

I also have a suspicion these new standards will be watered down some (as has happened more than once). After all, 35mpg for a mfr's entire fleet average isn't realistic, and that's especially true for the luxury carmakers like M-B, BMW and even Cadillac. Those guys don't have little dinky toy cars to offset their "real" cars' mileage.

In fact, I think this new standard would require some totally new technology in order to be achievable, and things like diesel, hybrid and even hydrogen and fuel cell aren't likely to cut it within that timeframe. Just my opinion.

But in any case, look for another 1970's-like wave of little, lightweight, low-powered cars to come onto the market, just like in the "gas crisis" days 35 years ago (you guys old enough to remember that? ). To be honest, that was a factor in my decision to trade to a nice V-8 now, while they're still in their heyday.

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TampaRLX-SH

This was posted over on Edmunds...

I have no idea how credible it is, but looks plausible for a freshening.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/b...ars%202/03.jpg

mrmako

If the above linked image is any indication of the new RL, then they called Bangel-san and worked the fugly BMW magic on the hind end. And what's with copying a Mercedes style tail lamp? This does not bode well.

mrmako

And concerning credibility of dealers: When I lived in Stuttagrt-Sindelfingen, I lived on a small dead end street with 7 Mercedes engineers, and an undercover Polizei (cop). Anyway, my neighbors upstairs talk to me a bit. 2 difererent guys (2 apartments).

Anyway, one guy was a test driver and upper executive who got to try out new toys all the time (the AMG's would occasionally show up, and they were sweet). That was fun.

The other guy was the one of the lead/head design guys for a "new series of Benz", and even he would not tell me exactly he was working on. This was in 2002/2003, so he described the car in a lot of detail, with the US market in mind, but would not divulge the series letter (the R class is what it was). I only found out when he brought one home for some test runs on autobahn 81 and 8 (both very close to our place).

I digress from the RL thread but it's to prove a point. My point is any "dealer" that says they have inside information is full of it.

geronimomoe

Saw that earlier today. Looks like a copy of the new C-Class back end... Not too sure what to think of it..

Mike_TX

But the license plate appears to say "Legend".

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neuronbob

I am praying that is someone's photoshop version of their dream RL. All I can say is...that's FUGLY. The current rear is 1000% better.

Trackruner228

iTrader: (1)

Well I think it probably is. I mean do you really think Acura would give out a spy shot like that and to emunds of all people? That end kind of looks like an accord so I really think its probably not the new legend.

If you think about almost everything in this thread is a rumor so who knows hopefully Acura will impress.

krio

The Legend came out 2 years later than the RL in the european market, in 2006. The Legend is selling quite good in Europe, I don't see any reason of a refreshening after only 2 years...

About the engines.
I don't know how in the USA, but in Europe a 295 hp engine looks very powerful for a car like the Legend.
In Europe the 70% of the market is concentrated on the diesel engines.
The 295 hp of the Legend is one of the most powerful and the car recieved always good reviews from the press.
The Audi A6 3.2 V6 has 255 hp. but we prefer in Europe the 3.0 TDI with 233 hp.
The BMW 5 is selling almost the 530d with 235 hp, or the 525xi with 218 hp or the 523 with 177 hp.
The Mercedes is selling very well the E series with engines ike the 320 CDI (224 hp.) and the 220 CDI or 200 Compressor (184 hp).
The next year Honda will get new diesel engines for Europe, not only for the Honda Accord, but for the CR-V and for the Legend too.

acitydweller

You sure like using the word buddy. :P

SpicyMikey

Totally agree Trackrunner. That's a studio shot. Acura wouldn't even take such a photo yet let alone let it leak out. Also, why such a closeup rear end shot like that. Lastly, the hard lines look too 90's.

I'm sure if someone dug hard enough they'd find it's a stock photo of something else from the past with a little cut and paste magic going on.

TSX69

I see the world Accord but it so small that it really could be either.

Rexorg

Born and raised in the sticks so what?

Mike_TX

I tried enlarging the image and applying some sharpening, but it's still not ironclad. It DOES look like the first letter is an "L", though:



Enlarge it any more and it just gets more pixelated and harder to read. But back away from your monitor and squint, and it looks like "Legend".

Sure, it's probably not legit - why would Acura leak a tiny picture of part of the car to a photobucket accountholder? Duh.

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Mike_TX

Uh-oh. I might have used the word buddy before, too. Is that bad?

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SpicyMikey

Born and raised 12 miles outside Manhattan, NY. I use "buddy" all the time. But then again, I've been living in Florida for 15 years. I could be turning into a southerner

TampaRLX-SH

Credible or not, I think it is depicting a JDM or global LEGEND. There are rear fog lights in the chrome trim above the rear tag.

neuronbob

Stay on topic, please, buddy . Thank you.

Back on topic:

I happened to look at the Imagebucket accountholder's other pix. He's got lots of spy pix on there. Was this purposely leaked to get a (free) test market response? Is it a Photoshop (most likely)? Who knows. We'll find out soon enough.

I am digging the quad exhausts, but there are too many severe and straight lines on that trunk. It doesn't go with the gently curved lines on the rest of the car.