gavine

I wanted to lease my RL but the numbers didn't make any sense at all. The 5-year lone worked-out much better for my situation. Even the finance manager at my dealer agreed that the lease wasn't good.

SpicyMikey

Yea, unless there is significant finance support from the manufacturer the lease often doesn't make sense unless you're absolutely certain you want to roll out of it in 3 years and are confident you can keep the mileage within contract. Even then, it's usually somewhat of a wash. The only real advantage is that your not paying into all the "dead money" equity. It then becomes a tradeoff of which is more valuable; the lost interest on the dead money sitting in the car versus the added flexibility a purchase offers you. I agree that smaller car payment is tempting but I try and keep my eye on TCO.

I have gone both ways depending on the deal and my intentions with the car at the time. But in this case I bought my RL. Took out a 6% 4 year loan. Financing was significantly better then the lease rate with my local bank. Seems I saved several thousand $ this way and gave myself that backend flexibility. I like having options

jftjr

Realize that given the constraints imposed by wind resistance at speed, there's basically going to be similarities among all cars, and when they come out of the same family, are built on similar platforms, and share parts bins... they're going to look more and more alike.

Sadly, ever since Ford started selling jellybeans in the mid 80's, pretty much every car maker has moved in that direction.

black label

I hear all kinds of crap at my dealership, a lot of it spewed by a sales manager who gets all of his good info from me, but passes on any rumor he hears as fact. The people at the dealerships don't know anything about future cars beyond the color combinations for the 08 model year. Sometimes we get a slight heads up before the general public, but that works out to no more than 36 hours before the rest of the world knows.

The only thing I know about the future of Acura that most of you don't already know is they should have "one pay leases" starting next month........I know thats the news every one wanted to hear....

CL6

Well, of course the Lexus ES is a Camry, but I know what you mean.

For years Honda has associated itself with Acura probably because they thought that all the things that made a Honda great also made an Acura great (and then better because it's an Acura). In the press materials Honda talked about Acura so naturally the press started doing it. You rarely read about Toyota/Lexus in the car mags.

It was a big deal with the first cars started to arrive with 'Acura' stamped on them. Made the brand seem more of its own in a way.

In reference to 'One Pay' you've always been able to do that. You're just pre-paying a lease is all.

jesuswalks

Well SH-AWD weighs more which changes basicly everything. (Weight, handling, 0-60...ect.)

Also RWD has less friction then AWD so better MPG. I still think Acura should release a RWD MDX with 6-gears.

noobie

Why would anyone want to do that? Is there gap insurance provided with this? Why wouldn't you just buy down the money factor with multiple security deposits?

gavine

One payment leases are good when you own-outright a high-value trade and don't want to worry about holding the money to make payments. They use the trade-in as the one lease payment and you're off the hook for three years. Doesn't make sense to most, but I'm sure there are people who love it.

CL6

There's really no reason. And if you buy down the money factor you're letting the leasing company have use of your money for the duration of the lease, which is not smart.

Rexorg

Now that the '08 RL is being displayed on the Acura website with no apparent changes are some of you naysayers beginning to believe that the '09 model will actually be the 3rd Generation?

neuronbob

Nope.

Of course, Acura did take seven years between MMCs on the RL the last time, so who knows? Maybe they'll surprise us and go only four years this time. I doubt it, though.

Mike_TX

I always enjoy it when people say such-and-such a financial arrangement is "smart" or "not smart".

The truth is that what is not smart for you may be just the ticket for some else with a different financial situation or different needs. Face it - not everyone has the same tax status, investment positions, cash flow requirements, etc., etc., that YOU have. Therefore, it's a little presumptuous to make blanket statements like that.

On a macro scale, I might think it's "not smart" for Warren Buffet to give away $50 million to some university, or for Brad Pitt to spend $4 million on a boat that sits in a marina in Florida, but in many cases people save more money by spending it than they do by keeping it ... it's called tax brackets. For us mere mortals, that's not a huge consideration, but even we have different situations that affect our finances.

I have a friend who does indeed do prepaid leases. And he is a retired Daimler-Chrysler executive, so he understands the car business inside out. I don't understand all of it myself, but it involves

1. a lower interest rate than a standard lease,
2. accelerated depreciation benefits,
3. cash flow for higher-yield investment,
4. other personal financial considerations

So keep in mind these options exist not because people are stupid and will fall for them, but because they fulfill the needs (or wants) of the people who utilize them.

End of sermon.

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SpicyMikey

Good point. On the surface a pre-paid lease seems odd, but, I guess it fills a need for someone, somewhere.

TampaRLX-SH

Making a financial decision, researched, meeting your expectations and options considered is smart.

Making a financial decision based solely on other's opinions (or overly weighted) is not smart.

It is your money.

Cut and paste 'financial decision' with 'car purchase', 'home prurchase', or general life decision.

Chas2

Hopefully this is a way to get the conversation back on thread, though some may consider it off thread. Take a look at this link

http://www.caranddriver.com/carnews/...i-genesis.html

of the 09 Hyundai Genesis, which is a RWD 4.6L V-8, luxury sedan aimed at the BMW 5 and MB E Class, among others, which is kind of where most have been saying Acura needs to go. Ironic that Hyundai appears to be there already. Hyundai's fast product development cycles continue to astound me.

Acura needs to be careful to make sure they have a winner with the 09 RL or it will be lost in the crowd even more as the press reviews the 09 Hyundai, noting some obvious deficiences, but concluding "Hey for $20K less, who cares?".

SpicyMikey

I can't wait to see this car.

I wish them luck, bit, I still think their moving too fast . Sedan buyers get snobby about their brands in the $40-50k price range (as Acura well knows). You've gotta build image along with (or slightly ahead) of these moves to a new price point. Image is large part of the total package at this price.

I think their overreaching here and gonna get a cold splash of reality next year.

By the way, I'm not so sure the RL is getting a FMC in 09. In fact, I'd bet against it if I had to lay my money on the table.

TampaRLX-SH

IMHO, reading between the lines the Hyundai Genesis model is lookin to displace Acura and specifically the RL as the 'first step to gain recognition as the Asian 'value' alternative in this particular luxury segment. And since the RL has not cemented that position, the Genesis could potentially get on the radar of this market segment's cross shoppers and win the excitement and attention (something Acura has lost) by undercutting cost by a deeper margin.

Genesis has potential to be the new contender of Asian luxury value. A new premium brand name supports that idea.

Mike_TX

You know, I still have my doubts about the prospects for the Genesis' success, but I have to say Hyundai has made astounding strides in a short time.

I went with my mother-in-law to look at the Santa Fe SUV the other day, and it is a jaw-dropper. Fully decked out, with V-6, AT, leather, power everything and third-row seating (lacking only nav, which is due in a few months), it stickered for only $28k. On top of that, they currently have a $2,500 rebate and another $1500 if you use their balloon note program. That means you can get this baby for $24k or less.

It has grown in size to very nice proportions, looks good, and is built like a tank. It drove beautifully, had good power (242hp, but not enormous weight), and had nary a rattle or shiver over big bumps. Held the road nicely at highway speeds, was very comfy, rode well, and had good materials in the interior. I was really astonished at how good a vehicle it is, especially at that price point.

Given that, the Genesis may indeed be a winner. The problem is, as I told the salesman, Hyundai has a ways to go to outlive its reputation as a cheap Korean car, whether deserved or not. He agreed.

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TampaRLX-SH

Agreed. Hence the premium brand incarnation. Hyundai is rapidly reinventing itself and that alone is impressive. The Veracruz is already getting Lexus RX comparos in the press. If they hit the styling cues, and create a new brand excitement, they can prove to steal more of Acura's segment, not that the RL is holding up well in that segment.

If there is any benefit of Genesis and a potential new 3d tier Hyundai brand....is that it lights a fire under Acura's ass.

White92

There will only be 2 new sedans next year. The 09 TL and 09 TSX.

White92

I think there is alot more to having a full size luxury sedan than just car size, engine size, etc... It's a whole lot more.

GoHawks

And if the TL does have SH-AWD as has been rumored, the gap between the RL and TL will shrink even further. The RL will truly be a lame duck model.

JeffS

Interesting. I assume this means the new TL will be moving into the RL's space. Any word of when and/or if there will be a new RL?

SpicyMikey

It all depends on the price they settle on. If they go into the $40k market I think they are in for some serious trouble. I think we're giving Hyundai too much credit. Competing (and succeeding) in the $20k+ market is one thing. To move into the lux market is another ballgame.

Someone buying a $25k sedan has their priorities set on value as #1. Hyundai has clearly won that label. But someone buying a $45k sedan (to one degree or another) is interested in status along with value. They "wear" the car as much as they "drive" the car. Different mindset. That's one of the lessons Acura learned trying to move the RL into the $50k range. The brand can't support it. It doesn't matter that there is tremendous value.

Unless Hyundai rebrands these high end cars and markets the hell out of them, this will be a failure like so many others that have tried before them. 99% of the people with around $40k to spend will go buy a Lexus ES (or an Acura RL) before they're going to go buy a Hyundai Genesis. It just won't matter that the Hyundai is a better value like it matters in the $25k market.

Another way of looking at it is to ask; Who is the target market for this car? Who wil buy a $40k Hyundai? Is it a BMW 3 buyer? A Lexus buyer? Mercedes? (yea right!) Could you imagine someone trading in their MB C class for a "bigger" Hyundai? A Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi, etc. buyer can't afford a $40k car. Someone still buying American Fords, Chevy's, etc., DEFINITELY won't buy a rice burner.

So, who's going to buy it? It's not a retorical question. I'd be interested in thoughts on who people think might be the typical $40k Hyundai sedan buyer. I think there are about 4 in the country

White92

The TL will very much be moving into RL territory. I don't know anything more about the future of the RL than what I've already posted previously.

GoHawks

I think your points are all valid. As we've debated here already, people view Acura as a dressed up Honda, and let's face it, Honda has enjoyed a much better reputation than Hyundai. I too don't see ES owners, and Infiniti G owners (much less 3 series owners) trading in their cars for a Hyundai.

Ain't gonna happen.

We can all then go on the future Hyundai Genesis forum and read all the posts from Genesis owners lamenting how the car buying public just doesn't understand the car, and how the public is just buying the brand.

Sound familiar?

SpicyMikey

That's true. Compare this situation to Honda. Honda has a GREAT reputation. Extremely well respected for their products, quality, and value. Would Honda be successful selling a $40k Genesis? It could be even BETTER then the Acura RL in value, they still would sell far less then if it had an Acura badge on it.

Maybe we're assuming wrong. Maybe this Genesis is going to be priced in the upper $20's right above the Azera

neuronbob

This all gibes with Acura's stated desire to move upmarket, which started with the TL-S at $39k sticker and the MDX at its current, higher sticker this MY.

I can't wait to see what Acura has up its sleeve the next two years. This could be truly a "make or break" time for the brand, and I'd dearly love to see Acura succeed again. The last true "home run" for Acura was the 3G TL, which is a phenomenal car.

I can only hope that the marketing muscle will be better than it's been, or the brand is sunk even before the new cars come out. Just like in my medical practice, you have to spend money to make money. Lexus is king at doing this, and hopefully Acura will do some things to follow suit for picky American consumers.

TampaRLX-SH

From what I have read, Genesis will be priced upper 20s to mid 30s. The buyers who WILL buy want the content of the premium vehicles but not the price. This is their target market, not as much to woo away the existing Lexus/BMW/Mercedes brand buyers. The mentality of people who want that content without the price overlapps with ACURA's target market. Which if they succeed AND brand market wisely, I think they will do damage to Acura more than nick the Lexus/BMW/Mercedes market share. If they crat a new brand image differentiating it from Hyundai and offer the premium content for LESS than even Acura undercuts L/B/M already, I think they would make another stride up the brand ladder.

I don't see them taking on Lexus/BMW/Mercedes as much as stepping over Acura on the journey. And I do see Genesis as a potential alternative to a best value Asian premium sedan (read RL).

scottj

I can't help but think Phaeton and VW's little upscale misadventure. But then again, they went whole hog and targeted S-class, 7-Series, and A8 buyers and tried to compete at the SAME price point. Who wants to have his $100K luxo-barge serviced at the local VW shop?

If Hyundai comes in at a much lower price point, say $35K, they can pick up the folks who want all the goodies that come with an RL, 5-series, or E-class but can't afford it. That could be a pretty good market.

SpicyMikey

I didn't read anything about price, but if that's true, then they aren't really going after the lux market. This would actually make more sense and restore my faith in Hyundai's decision makers.

Regarding it being a threat to the RL. I don't really see that if their price point is upper 20's to low 30's. The current RL is a mid 40's car. Besides, if the writing on the wall is any indication, this next gen RL will be a step up from this one. Like so many have pointed out, the TL and TSX are moving up a bit in this next gen. We have to assume the RL isn't going to sit there bumping up against the TL for much longer. It's the only reason why I wonder if maybe Acura IS going to remake the RL for 09 rathern then the following year. It goes against history but next year we have a new TSX, a new TL (both with SH-AWD) and an aging RL that never seemed to catch on. If they don't change it in 09 it will certainly be a "lame duck" for that year as someone else already said. Imagine three new sedans in one year. That would create a lot of buzz!

By the way, has anyone else noticed a lot more Acura commercials lately (especially the TL)?

Chas2

This is way OT, but when the first 2008 RL went up on the Acura website, ironically, the headlines about 2008 RL Ahead of the Curve, etc was in white against white clouds, and you could not read it. I complained to them via the Contact Us, and it was changed to black in 36 hours. Now maybe it was not me, but I like to think I can have some influence on them...

Rexorg

It does seem you have some influence. Why don't you contact them again and ask about the all new 2009 RL, especially when it will be released, price, specs, etc. Also, ask them for some pre-introduction pics you can post on this site.

White92

You're exactly right. The next 2,3 and 4 years for Acura are going to be huge. It will all be moving more upscale while still focusing on performance.

As mentioned before, 2008 will show the introduction of both the redesigned 2009 TL and TSX. 2008MY will also be the last time you see an Acura for under $30k. After the TL and TSX will be the new RL and around the same time we will see the NSX replacement.

None of this info is any big secret, but it's all finally starting to happen.

SpicyMikey

They need a new tag line in the process. Acura....Advance is just to vague. It doesn't make you think of anything.

Acura... At the intersection of Luxury and Performance

Acura... Where Luxury meets Performance

Acura... Advance to Luxury Performance

The last ones good because it builds off the current tag but it says more and (more importantly) makes you have a connection with the word Acura. Almost anything would probably be better. I'm sure we could think of a dozen good ones. Who are the people they pay to brand and market this company?

Mike_TX

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calvin_hobbes

i picked up a motor trends magazine (june issue i think) and there was a mention that honda is testing a new V-10 engine on ridgeline which will later be fitted into RL... (and i think this has already been covered in this thread.. if so, my apologies)

123456SPEED

I'm not that excited that Acura is 'going upscale'. I don't want to buy a $40k TL personally. Value pricing was a main lure of Acura for me. I would be forced to seriously consider other brands, mainly due to resale. BMW and maybe MB cost more but are more popular brands. Look at how fast the RL prices dropped and they can't even sell em.

Acura may be pricing itself out of my preferred car spending, $30-35k. If I were to spend over $40k I would probably go German. I have been shopping used RLs, but it is not worth over $35k to me.

SpicyMikey

Not sure I understand the rationale of just using price points as a deciding factor. Pound for pound you get a lot more car with asia then germany. PLUS, you have to factor in downtime and hassle from repairs, etc. When I add things up I can never justify buying german, ever, and believe me I've tried. The numbers just never add up.

Having said that, of course, I'd consider something else if Acura simply increased their price without adding features. I'm not sure that's the plan. if so, that would be foolish. If you add 10% to the cost of every Acura without changing anything else then you have Lexus pricing, which then makes them competitive in my eyes. To make german cars an option yuo'd have to increase the Acura price at least 25%

TampaRLX-SH

I still think in the $40K range the RL is the best car in the segment (for my taste)...even in its 3rd model year. I realize I am in the mimority, and I am OK with that.

An RL for $50K+ would have to be a substantially different vehicle to lure me at that pricepoint. But what would it take? Styling is subjective, content is an ante up race between manufacturers and the driving dynamics of the RL already far exceed my expectations. Other than a more reactive tranny, I have no major engineering wishes for the RL. I am fine with the current engine. Peppering new toys is great, but not worth a jump to $50K+

I cannot imagine there is much more I could want to justify a $50k+ RL.