CL6

The thing is, Mercedes was named after the guy's daughter who was named Mercedes. And we all love Mercedes Ruhl, right..?

Yes, people do name their kids Lexus. But how many brands had an Adam Sandler song about them?

"If you want to sex us better get a Lexus."

If I met someone named 'Acura' I'd think they had retarded parents!

TampaRLX-SH

I have an friend in the old country whose name is 'Acora'.

Check your mail CL6!

CL6

Something is retarded because there's nothing there! I don't know what's going on here.

123456SPEED

Don't forget Ford Edsel. Henry Ford's son, the car bombed.
and Vigor mortis.//

Prince had a song, that mentioned the Acura Legend, some of his unreleased stuff (when he was trying to rap).

Chas2

TOV has someone coming from a dealer meeting saying new RL in '10 with a possible V-10, and new sheet metal in 09. Sounds suspect, but interesting gossip, just like what started this thread

SPUDMTN

Talked to my dealer last week and discussed RLs w/ the internet manager. Dealers already have their '08 allocations, but don't know any details about the cars save for their colors.

His understanding is that it's simply a carryover year. They're expecting delivery in July, I believe--don't remember exactly, just know that it seemed earlier than normal.

Now, IMHO, this would seem to imply that we should expect an early '09 release in '08 (maybe spring) with a MMC. Again, speculation, speculation, but this would seem to be logical given the '08 release soon.

Tully44

If the '08s are a month away, then Acura is just trying to get a jump on Lexus, Caddy and Infiniti. I doubt it's a short model year bump. If that was the case, they would forgo the '08 year (like Infiniti with the Q45) and the '09's would have a fresh face.

123456SPEED

I know the 01-03 CL had unusual release dates -

Acura skipped the 2000 MY and brought the 01 CL out in Spring (May?) of 2000.
the 02 CL had a very short model year,
the 03 CL came out in spring (April?) of 2002.

in this case the 02 was not selling well. they added the much wanted 6 speed option in 03 and brought the 03 out early.

CL6

The Accord is new this Fall and part of it is keeping that seperate. The TSX gets re-done before next October but I hadn't heard about the RL launching early. Going by Acura's 5 year plan the next gen RL is 09... I don't see that changing.

static808

Now a new RL with a V10 and new sheet metal would be nice in 2009

How about a long wheel base flagship with the rumored 4.2L V8 or 5.0L V10? Now that would smack the competition.

CL6

Acura should do that... just totally come out of left field as with the first NSX and freak everybody out but, more likely, they will learn to crawl then walk then run.

Maybe at least Nineteens with spinners for 08.

jhr3uva90

A full-sized flagship above the RL would be nice.

neuronbob

Knowing Honda....they won't do either. Too risky.

All I'm asking for is a V6 with more low end torque. If Nissan can do it, Honda can do it better. A V8, as we all want, would be nice but not realistic for the company billing itself as the "most fuel efficient auto company in America".

With that said, a longer wheel base car w/gobs of power would be my idea of a flagship. That it would attract people to the brand.

SpicyMikey

A v10 in the RL?? Who would buy that? That would probably be a huge mistake. Even a v8 is going to have limited appeal. Most midsize sedan buyers want a v6. I could maybe see Acura buckling under the pressure and offering a v8 because the competion has it. But even then, how many M45's does Infiniti really sell?

Maybe if they came out with a long body sedan they might put the rumored v10 in it. But, who are we kidding. They're not going to do that. At least not as a "next step" from here. I agree with Bob, it would be too risky

TampaRLX-SH

The 1st and second quotes depicts why the RL engine is what it is.

Nissan favors the grunt (an engine noise) but do you see the same economy? From what I read an M35 has significantly lower avg mpg.

Honda follows a different philosophy. Higher revs, better economy.

Now Toyota does offer similar or better power and economy in their V6, but they also have trannies with better gearing (when they don't go *BOOM*).

I think the Honda clean diesels being launched will introduce the low end grunt and maintain economy that we all want in Honda engines. Hopefully it will be more ingenius than BlueTech, as I would expect from Honda. The campains are well under way in Europe for Honda passenger vehicle diesels.

CL6

I just learned... NO changes for 08 RL. It says something like: "The RL continues into 08 with timeless styling and class leading performance."

White92

I would buy one. It's a little known fact that Acura hired one of Mercedes head designers about a year ago. His initial impression after coming into the company is that Acura has absolutely NO idea what a luxury full size sedan should be. He bought all of Acura's designers new C class, S class, LS, etc... to drive for 1 year. Their goal was to see what a flagship-like model should and could be.

Point being, when the RL is redesigned for the next generation, we will have a car to compete with the likes of these cars. One of the designs they have been tossing around is using a version of the next gen NSX V-10 engine in the next gen RL. I'd like to see a V-10 engined, Acura designed and built, M5 competitor. We all know that Acura can build cars like these. They have the means and the technology. The questions are will they? and/or when?

Ikko

Mmmmm......very insteresting!!!

jhr3uva90

A V10 is a good idea, if they use it in multiple models. For example, Lexus' 4.3 liter V8 was used in the LS, LX (SUV), SC, and GS models. Perhaps the V10 can be used in Acura's upcoming GT car, a full-sized flagship, and as options in the RL and MDX. Maybe there can be an SUV above the MDX as well.

SpicyMikey

But the RL isn't a full size sedan. Come out with a model to compete with the 7 series, S class, or LS and put the v10 in that. What a shakeup that would cause. But don't put a v10 in my 4000lb midsize RL. I'm pretty confident that will be a mismatch.

White92

Obviously if they went this route, the RL wouldn't be a midsize car anymore. They are looking at going full blown, full size, full luxury sedan.

Think about it. The TL will be getting SH-AWD for the fall of 08's full redesign. It will also get some new technology as well. That's pretty much the current RL (with some other details obviously.) They HAVE to redesign the RL soon after that. They can't have the 2 cars be that similar. The RL can only go upscale in every way.

SpicyMikey

If the turned the RL into a full size sedan then this v10 idea has legs. At least it would be more plausible. Only time will tell I suppose.

TampaRLX-SH

I certainly do not fit the mold of flagship buyers. I like the size of the RL. It feels substantial, but not too long for my tastes. I like the power and economy the current V6 has, and unless a V8 or V10 can offer the same econony, no less, I would not opt for it. I think the mid 40K pricepoint is appropriate for this car and I like the fact it is the current brand flagship. My brand snobbery is tempered by the attributes of the vehicle.

If Acura had a bigger car, bigger engine (with less economy) and exceed the 50K+ pricepoint, I would not buy it. If the current RL was offered below a bigger flagship, I would buy the current RL.

Do I care it is not a match for other premium / luxury brand flagships....nope. Do I cross shop appropriately priced & similar content vehicles...yup.

The TL was not enough for me. The RL is just right. If I wanted a larger, more expensive, higher powered less fuel efficient vehicle I expect I would be in a premium SUV.

White92

I agree. The RL has always done what it's supposed to and done it well. One thing to not though is that if they if they do go bigger, better, faster route, the V-10 version shouldn't be the only engine offered.

static808

If its true that Acura hired a designer away from Mercedes, then we should see a new "S" Class competitor in 2009 or 2010. This kind of fits the "global" launch of the Acura nameplate in that timeframe.

Will the RL be that car or will the Legend reappear is anybody's guess. The challenge is as mentioned. The 2008/2009 TL will be close to an RL in every way.

Mercedes has C/E/S Class. BMW has 3/5/7 series. Acura has TSX/TL/RL. Only Lexus uses that strange configuration of IS/ES/GS/LS, where the ES/GS = TL/RL.


Hypothesis: Most likely the RL will be moved upscale and the TL will be pitted against the E and 5 series sedans...that's a tall order if the TL wants to keep its mid-30's price range..and 70,000+ annual car sales. It can be done..I guess

I can only see this happen if Acura's gameplan is to go head-on with Mercedes and BMW. They can definitely notch themselves between a E Class (luxury) and 5 series (Sport) with the TL. The new flagship RL would need to WOW everybody and most likely have the S Class luxury and a serious engine (V8/V10) and configuration (SH-AWD).

Now imagine the new RL is $55,000 base and loaded at $65,000. Who wouldn't buy that? I would.. If it was a S class competitor with a V10 or V8 and SH-AWD.

jhr3uva90

Of course, it depends on if Acura USA is really designing the next RL. All the previous RLs have been Japanese productions and I would assume the next RL would be as well.

White92

It is indeed true. He's worked for Acura for about a year now. I think the price point of the TL will be going up also. The 2008 TSX should be the last time you ever see an Acura for under $30k. The 2008 TL is around $35k to almost $39k. When they redesign it in 2008 for MY2009, is should be right up there, if not pushing/exceeding $40k. The next RL should be targeted around $55k-$65k, but still compete against cars that costs $10k-$30k more. That's the way they've always done it.

SpicyMikey

Just saw this article. Fits into what we have been jawing about with the next RL. Maybe a v10 would be an option, but, I still think it's a mistake unless they go fullsize (over 200in)

http://www.motortrend.com/future/con...a_ridgeline_v8

Shotgun

A Honda designed/engineered V10 with cylinder shut-off technology would rock! I'd be first inline to buy...

SpicyMikey

That's great, but I suspect we are not representative of the majority of the RL buying public. A v8 like this article I posted earlier, does sound like a very good idea. I would buy one. But again, we probably don't represent the "average" car buyer. Also, with gas rising over $3 and probably never looking back, fuel economy is increasingly more important to the average car buyer.

If the RL still came with a standard v6 I suspect the majority would not buy the 8cyl. There's lots of real life examples to support that assumption (e.g. M35/M45). Power is great, but it has to be needed. Most people buying a 4 door sedan are practical consumers. This is not an NSX buyer who can A) afford the gas, and B) probably uses it as a "weekend" car -- not their primary ride.

I'll say it again. Putting a v10 450hp engine into a 4000lb midsize sedan is a mismatch. Honda knows that. I can't imagine them doing that because they'd probably sell 100 per year. 20 of those would probably be bought from the guys on this site

noobie

Well I guess it just confirms that Acura has given up on this gen RL. I'm guess they figure that it would take a major refresh to boost sales and that kind of money would best be spent on the next gen.

The only outstanding question is how long and how much marketing support money will be on the vehicle until the new model in 09 or 10.

noobie

That will be a tall order for Acura to get E and 5 series buyers to cross shop a TL. Heck, they can't even get them to cross shop an RL. Even if they deliver the goods on the car, they will still need to contend with perception and brand positioning.

It will be interesting to watch how Hyundai does with the Genesis next year. They are aiming at the LS, 7 and the S. Will see if they do dent E and 5 sales. Now I think Acura is way ahead of Hyundai in perception, but they still have their work cut out for them.

SpicyMikey

It's going to be a disaster. Volkswagon and Mitsubishi tried to push outside their brands price range and failed miserably. It never works, even if the car has value at the set price.

If they want to go upscale then they will need to rebrand it. Very few people will be willing to spend $50k on a Hyundai even if it's worth $70k. However, they'd be willing to spend $70k on a Mercedes that's really worth $50k. That's just human nature.

noobie

LOL, Spicey, that is so true...sad but true.

TampaRLX-SH

Acura has little to no say in the matter. Honda is JUST beginning to introduce the LEGEND is certain global markets. In some cases it will be introduced as an Acura RL. Changing assembly lines to accomodate anything more than content and cosmetic changes per market would not be wise for Honda. So Acura will have to bear with it as is for the model run.

As long as Honda is reasonably satified with the global sales for the model, they will not retool for major changes prematurely. And since sales in the US are nowhere near target projections, why would they respond to the US desires if they can sell it elsewhere? Why risk the producton costs if they cannot offer the almighty V8 yet?

Mike_TX

I'm still going with the neronman on this one. Honda is just too conservative a company to do something goofy like slap a V-10 into a luxury sedan. Even with cylinder deactivation, it represents the "wrong" image for a company that has dedicated itself to economical transportation.

Now, a smallish V-8 (like the 4.2 liter in the story) - especially with cylinder deactivation - is a reasonable way for Honda to cover both bases (it's a six ... it's an eight!), and it might actually appear in the next-gen RL.

But I still don't see Acura trying to compete with the M-B S-class. That's too much like VW's failed attempt with the Phaeton. Honda just doesn't even want to operate in that rarified atmosphere ... it ain't their turf. Heck, they're uncomfortable enough with the current RL!

.
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static808

TampaRL, its true that the Legend is making the rounds globally as a Honda.

With the introduction of the Acura nameplate in Japan in 2009/2010 timeframe, I would imagine the next set of refreshed sedans (TSX, TL, RL/Legend) will be the same in Japan and globally. In Japan, Acura will need to be redefined since the Euro Accord = TSX, TL is U.S. made and only shipping to China/Hong Kong and the RL = Honda Legend.

This could mean a Mercedes S Class competitor labeled as an Acura RL, with the TSX and TL launched as "new" sedans in Japan.

Lexus was introduced in the Japan market this year with the IS/GS/LS and SC coupe. I would imagine Honda is watching how Lexus is being judged in Japan and will follow a similar path.

Now where are those V8, V10 and V6 Turbo Diesel engines....

TampaRLX-SH

I agree. There is some interesting things going on with the Honda & Acura brands, and subsequently the models within those brands.

Acura is being launched in several Asian countries, along with Japan and the Middle East, and some additional European countries. Some in 2007, 2008 & 2009. It is my understanding that, initially the TL & RL will be the only Acura models. Perhaps when the next TSX / EuroAccord is launched, it will be under the Acura brand only? In countries where the Honda LEGEND is already offered, it will be rebadged as Acura RL with appropriate content for that market. Apparently the LEGEND is too much car for the Honda brand perception in most markets. Therefore is a marketing hocus pocus, Honda introduces the Acura premium brand and can upmarket the LEGEND as RL. Funny, as we in North America are screaming for the return of the LEGEND model name!

Lexus has similar issues. In countries where Lexus is unknown, some Lexus models are sold as Toyotas. Now they want to introduce the Lexus brand and rebadge the same cars and sell as Lexus...likley asking for more sticker money too.

GO figger.

Trackruner228

iTrader: (1)

Hm Acura hired someone from Mercedes? That doesnt seem totally right to me. Caranddriver rated the RL better then the E class. The C class is 5k more then a base TL with a lot less options. I have also heard Mercedes Navi systems are horrible. Maybe they drive better but that is about it. I mean how many more cars a year does Mercedes sell then Acura? Also dont forget they have more cars to sell.

static808

Trackruner228, you bring up a good point. Mercedes sales are mostly due to the prestige of owning a Benz.

Take for example the CLS from Mercedes. Its a cramped 4 door coupe but it outsells the RL and is priced between the $65K to $80K.

Mercedes sells alot of cars, or better put, leases alot of cars...Having somebody from Benz working for Acura will add some of the finer details luxury owners want. Something Honda and Acura might be missing. Who knows..but Benz is a powerhouse in sales....