2009 RL (press releases and pics pages 41-3)
06-19-2007, 01:24 PM
#121
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That's another thing. Was a woman around in the last few days with an 05 SAAB to trade and she was given thousands of dollars below Kelly Blue Book FAIR condition. Maybe thought she was getting robbed by the 'car salesmen' or something but when they can't given the new ones away what do you think happens to the used ones?
Originally Posted by SpicyMikey
Check out Saab! You want a 9-5? They're practically throwing money at you. Does that make you feel better 
06-19-2007, 01:48 PM
#122
AcurAdmirer
It's still worth noting, though, that Acura ends up getting the money they want, incentives or no.
Take leasing, for example: Even though I leased my RL at a cap cost of about $40,000 on paper, the lease payments are higher than on the '06 Infiniti M45 I leased for a cap cost of almost $50,000.
It's the shell game of residuals and money factors at work. The Infiniti just had its residual pumped up and its money factors squeezed down to move cars.
It works similarly for buying, although some of the difference is made up in low trade-in allowances and higher used car sales prices. Still, look at the finance charges, where they also get you on the way out.
All in all, it's maybe just a different way of marketing. You can stand tough like Lexus or M-B and refuse to come off your MSRP much if any, or you can tease customers with discounts and then make it back in the 'business office'.
Either way, as long as Acura gets more than true invoice for their cars, they're making money. And since they don't have to support the huge overheads of lavish showrooms and things like expense accounts for salesmen (my M-B salesman recently took my wife and me out for a 5-star dinner and after-dinner cocktails at 2 different hot night spots!), they don't need to make thousands on each sale.
.
.
Take leasing, for example: Even though I leased my RL at a cap cost of about $40,000 on paper, the lease payments are higher than on the '06 Infiniti M45 I leased for a cap cost of almost $50,000.
It's the shell game of residuals and money factors at work. The Infiniti just had its residual pumped up and its money factors squeezed down to move cars.It works similarly for buying, although some of the difference is made up in low trade-in allowances and higher used car sales prices. Still, look at the finance charges, where they also get you on the way out.
All in all, it's maybe just a different way of marketing. You can stand tough like Lexus or M-B and refuse to come off your MSRP much if any, or you can tease customers with discounts and then make it back in the 'business office'.
Either way, as long as Acura gets more than true invoice for their cars, they're making money. And since they don't have to support the huge overheads of lavish showrooms and things like expense accounts for salesmen (my M-B salesman recently took my wife and me out for a 5-star dinner and after-dinner cocktails at 2 different hot night spots!), they don't need to make thousands on each sale.
.
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06-19-2007, 03:23 PM
#123
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Acura gets their money, but if sales decrease then they get fewer sales and less money, obviously. As incentives rise, per unit profit drops, too. Both seem to be happening to Acura.
Holding the line at MSRP is a decision from the dealership level. Althought the NY-NJ-CT Mercedes dealers got busted several years ago for a price fixing scheme. But, how close to MSRP a model sells has a lot to do with how much the manufacturer does to help it become that way through shrewd advertising, requirements for dealerships to meet, sales training, etc.
It is the advantage of manufacturers to make sure that their products sell for as close to MSRP as possible because it not only builds the brand but also will have many qualified sales people wanting to sell that car line. And as cars become more complicated and require more explanation, the need for good sales people becomes more important. You aren't going to retain qualified sales people if your brand is sinking into the mire and, afterall, sales people are the biggest part of the experience a person has when they look at or buy a brand.
Holding the line at MSRP is a decision from the dealership level. Althought the NY-NJ-CT Mercedes dealers got busted several years ago for a price fixing scheme. But, how close to MSRP a model sells has a lot to do with how much the manufacturer does to help it become that way through shrewd advertising, requirements for dealerships to meet, sales training, etc.
It is the advantage of manufacturers to make sure that their products sell for as close to MSRP as possible because it not only builds the brand but also will have many qualified sales people wanting to sell that car line. And as cars become more complicated and require more explanation, the need for good sales people becomes more important. You aren't going to retain qualified sales people if your brand is sinking into the mire and, afterall, sales people are the biggest part of the experience a person has when they look at or buy a brand.
Originally Posted by Mike_TX
It's still worth noting, though, that Acura ends up getting the money they want, incentives or no.
Take leasing, for example: Even though I leased my RL at a cap cost of about $40,000 on paper, the lease payments are higher than on the '06 Infiniti M45 I leased for a cap cost of almost $50,000. It's the shell game of residuals and money factors at work. The Infiniti just had its residual pumped up and its money factors squeezed down to move cars.
It works similarly for buying, although some of the difference is made up in low trade-in allowances and higher used car sales prices. Still, look at the finance charges, where they also get you on the way out.
All in all, it's maybe just a different way of marketing. You can stand tough like Lexus or M-B and refuse to come off your MSRP much if any, or you can tease customers with discounts and then make it back in the 'business office'.
Either way, as long as Acura gets more than true invoice for their cars, they're making money. And since they don't have to support the huge overheads of lavish showrooms and things like expense accounts for salesmen (my M-B salesman recently took my wife and me out for a 5-star dinner and after-dinner cocktails at 2 different hot night spots!), they don't need to make thousands on each sale.
.
.
Take leasing, for example: Even though I leased my RL at a cap cost of about $40,000 on paper, the lease payments are higher than on the '06 Infiniti M45 I leased for a cap cost of almost $50,000.
It's the shell game of residuals and money factors at work. The Infiniti just had its residual pumped up and its money factors squeezed down to move cars.It works similarly for buying, although some of the difference is made up in low trade-in allowances and higher used car sales prices. Still, look at the finance charges, where they also get you on the way out.
All in all, it's maybe just a different way of marketing. You can stand tough like Lexus or M-B and refuse to come off your MSRP much if any, or you can tease customers with discounts and then make it back in the 'business office'.
Either way, as long as Acura gets more than true invoice for their cars, they're making money. And since they don't have to support the huge overheads of lavish showrooms and things like expense accounts for salesmen (my M-B salesman recently took my wife and me out for a 5-star dinner and after-dinner cocktails at 2 different hot night spots!), they don't need to make thousands on each sale.
.
.
06-19-2007, 03:59 PM
#124
Torch & Pitchfork Posse
I would have to agree with CL6, that the brand has to set expectations. These incentives, and DEEP incentives are setting expectations that the Acura brand is typically negotiable. I remember having an impression that Acura was pretty much a sticker price car company, and if you got $500 off sticker, that was a deal. That has now changed, and however good as the 3rd Gen RL may turn out to be, I will be expecting discounts (aside form the initial launch period). If not 1st model year, I would wait until I saw them...as I would be expecting now.
Although I know Lexus can be negotiated and good discounts are occasionally found, I don't EXPECT them from Lexus. My opinion of Acura has changed.
I wonder if this mentality was brought into focus with the GM and FORD 'giveaway' deals? Could that has sent a precedence to the consumer that is trickling upbrand? The luxury / upscale car market in general seems to be cooling, so there could be various challenges facing this market segment as well as Acura specifically.
CL6...has this been a bad day? How many coffees have you had? Sounds like someone is having a case of the Mondays!
<ducking>
Although I know Lexus can be negotiated and good discounts are occasionally found, I don't EXPECT them from Lexus. My opinion of Acura has changed.
I wonder if this mentality was brought into focus with the GM and FORD 'giveaway' deals? Could that has sent a precedence to the consumer that is trickling upbrand? The luxury / upscale car market in general seems to be cooling, so there could be various challenges facing this market segment as well as Acura specifically.
CL6...has this been a bad day? How many coffees have you had? Sounds like someone is having a case of the Mondays!
<ducking>
06-19-2007, 04:04 PM
#125
Go Big Blue!
Originally Posted by CL6
Acura gets their money, but if sales decrease then they get fewer sales and less money, obviously. As incentives rise, per unit profit drops, too. Both seem to be happening to Acura.
Holding the line at MSRP is a decision from the dealership level. Althought the NY-NJ-CT Mercedes dealers got busted several years ago for a price fixing scheme. But, how close to MSRP a model sells has a lot to do with how much the manufacturer does to help it become that way through shrewd advertising, requirements for dealerships to meet, sales training, etc.
It is the advantage of manufacturers to make sure that their products sell for as close to MSRP as possible because it not only builds the brand but also will have many qualified sales people wanting to sell that car line. And as cars become more complicated and require more explanation, the need for good sales people becomes more important. You aren't going to retain qualified sales people if your brand is sinking into the mire and, afterall, sales people are the biggest part of the experience a person has when they look at or buy a brand.
Holding the line at MSRP is a decision from the dealership level. Althought the NY-NJ-CT Mercedes dealers got busted several years ago for a price fixing scheme. But, how close to MSRP a model sells has a lot to do with how much the manufacturer does to help it become that way through shrewd advertising, requirements for dealerships to meet, sales training, etc.
It is the advantage of manufacturers to make sure that their products sell for as close to MSRP as possible because it not only builds the brand but also will have many qualified sales people wanting to sell that car line. And as cars become more complicated and require more explanation, the need for good sales people becomes more important. You aren't going to retain qualified sales people if your brand is sinking into the mire and, afterall, sales people are the biggest part of the experience a person has when they look at or buy a brand.
06-19-2007, 04:58 PM
#126
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I would argue that incentives and invoice pricing go hand-in-hand. Look at GM, for example. If you look at the Lexus sales numbers, only a few of their products are growing month-over-month but I don't see them loaded up with incentives the way Acura is. I think the IS and the LS are the only two products that are growing. Dealerships can help their salespeople if prices are headed towards (or below) invoice. Manufacturers can help sales people by offering 'spins' on their cars (money sent directly to the sales people). Even in a downward market sales people can still find success.
But as TampaRL said, honestly, his perception of Acura has changed. I don't think he's close to being the only person who feels that way. It takes years to build a brand but little time to lower it. The trickle-down is already happening with resale values of the previous generation MDX.
Acura tried to combat the trunk money on the 07 RL by producing barely any of them but they had to resort to it with the 08s coming out so the cycle continues. The 04 RL had massive trunk money on it so this generation isn't the only one that's been this way.
I hope the folks at Acura wake up to what they're doing and build a more compelling brand.
A question for the RL people is would you have bought your RL if you were only able to get, say, $1,700.00 off the MSRP?
But as TampaRL said, honestly, his perception of Acura has changed. I don't think he's close to being the only person who feels that way. It takes years to build a brand but little time to lower it. The trickle-down is already happening with resale values of the previous generation MDX.
Acura tried to combat the trunk money on the 07 RL by producing barely any of them but they had to resort to it with the 08s coming out so the cycle continues. The 04 RL had massive trunk money on it so this generation isn't the only one that's been this way.
I hope the folks at Acura wake up to what they're doing and build a more compelling brand.
A question for the RL people is would you have bought your RL if you were only able to get, say, $1,700.00 off the MSRP?
Originally Posted by SpicyMikey
Very good points CL6. With family in the car business (and a good understanding of the compensation system), it's the sales people who get hurt the most with an "invoice" sale. If salesmen are turning over left and right, the sales process breaks down and everyone loses -- manufacturer, dealer, customer. Incentives are not the problem as much as these invoice deals that almost seem to be expected lately on the RL.
06-19-2007, 05:16 PM
#127
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
"spins" or "spiffs"
I thought it was called the latter. My brother-in-law works for a highend electronics store, and they regualryly get spiffs from Onkyo, Bose and such for selling their products.
I thought it was called the latter. My brother-in-law works for a highend electronics store, and they regualryly get spiffs from Onkyo, Bose and such for selling their products.
06-19-2007, 05:36 PM
#129
Go Big Blue!
Originally Posted by CL6
A question for the RL people is would you have bought your RL if you were only able to get, say, $1,700.00 off the MSRP?
To answer your question; I would have still taken the RL
06-19-2007, 05:55 PM
#130
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Originally Posted by GoHawks
"spins" or "spiffs"
I thought it was called the latter. My brother-in-law works for a highend electronics store, and they regualryly get spiffs from Onkyo, Bose and such for selling their products.
I thought it was called the latter. My brother-in-law works for a highend electronics store, and they regualryly get spiffs from Onkyo, Bose and such for selling their products.
06-19-2007, 06:03 PM
#131
AcurAdmirer
Personally, I have always considered the RL overpriced at $50,000 - even before I knew of the heavy discounting. Why? Simple ... the V-6 engine.
If the exact same car had been offered with a V-8 of about 325-335 hp AND the same sticker price, AND the discounting had never taken place, I would have forked over the $50k MSRP minus $1,700 and felt good about it.
But I believe the existing (V-6) RL would be "right-priced" at about $45,000 or so. (Just compare it to the Infiniti M35, for example.) Therefore, with the discounts, it becomes properly priced IMO. That's when I started giving it serious consideration.
See, for me that's the issue. My first looks at this car were snubbed when I saw the sticker. Huh? 300 hp or not, they ain't gonna sell a V-6 luxury sedan for no 50 grand, I sez to myself. Especially when others were selling V-8 cars at similar prices with similar equipment.
So, I guess my honest answer to your question is that, no, I probably wouldn't buy the RL at $48,300.
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If the exact same car had been offered with a V-8 of about 325-335 hp AND the same sticker price, AND the discounting had never taken place, I would have forked over the $50k MSRP minus $1,700 and felt good about it.
But I believe the existing (V-6) RL would be "right-priced" at about $45,000 or so. (Just compare it to the Infiniti M35, for example.) Therefore, with the discounts, it becomes properly priced IMO. That's when I started giving it serious consideration.
See, for me that's the issue. My first looks at this car were snubbed when I saw the sticker. Huh? 300 hp or not, they ain't gonna sell a V-6 luxury sedan for no 50 grand, I sez to myself. Especially when others were selling V-8 cars at similar prices with similar equipment.
So, I guess my honest answer to your question is that, no, I probably wouldn't buy the RL at $48,300.
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06-19-2007, 07:14 PM
#132
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Originally Posted by Mike_TX
But I believe the existing (V-6) RL would be "right-priced" at about $45,000 or so. (Just compare it to the Infiniti M35, for example.) Therefore, with the discounts, it becomes properly priced IMO. That's when I started giving it serious consideration.
See, for me that's the issue. My first looks at this car were snubbed when I saw the sticker. Huh? 300 hp or not, they ain't gonna sell a V-6 luxury sedan for no 50 grand, I sez to myself. Especially when others were selling V-8 cars at similar prices with similar equipment.
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I wonder how many M35x's, however, Infiniti is selling. Maybe they are not selling that many as well.
For luxury nameplates, I think that the bar for AWD with V-8 engines is now clearly above $60,000. Even without AWD, the majority of luxury V-8 models are above $60,000, especially when you start adding options. You can still get a Chrysler 300 or an Impala with a V-8 for under that, but I don't consider those cars in the same league. Even a Caddi with a V-8 and options is going to be near the $50K mark.
I don't disagree that the prices for these cars are getting rediculous, but I don't think Acura's pricing of the RL was that out of whack with the rest of the industry. I do think that the whole industry, however, is certainly out of whack for pricing V-6 luxury sedans so high, and is probably one of the reasons why luxury car sales have reportedly been slumping (per newspaper articles...I have not seen the hard data, so take that opinion with a grain of salt).
06-19-2007, 07:55 PM
#133
AcurAdmirer
Originally Posted by Godwhacker
I guess maybe things are different down south, but a comparably equipped M35x stickers for around 50 large as well, at least up here in the Northeast (where demand for AWD is higher).
I wonder how many M35x's, however, Infiniti is selling. Maybe they are not selling that many as well.
For luxury nameplates, I think that the bar for AWD with V-8 engines is now clearly above $60,000. Even without AWD, the majority of luxury V-8 models are above $60,000, especially when you start adding options. You can still get a Chrysler 300 or an Impala with a V-8 for under that, but I don't consider those cars in the same league. Even a Caddi with a V-8 and options is going to be near the $50K mark.
I don't disagree that the prices for these cars are getting rediculous, but I don't think Acura's pricing of the RL was that out of whack with the rest of the industry. I do think that the whole industry, however, is certainly out of whack for pricing V-6 luxury sedans so high, and is probably one of the reasons why luxury car sales have reportedly been slumping (per newspaper articles...I have not seen the hard data, so take that opinion with a grain of salt).
I wonder how many M35x's, however, Infiniti is selling. Maybe they are not selling that many as well.
For luxury nameplates, I think that the bar for AWD with V-8 engines is now clearly above $60,000. Even without AWD, the majority of luxury V-8 models are above $60,000, especially when you start adding options. You can still get a Chrysler 300 or an Impala with a V-8 for under that, but I don't consider those cars in the same league. Even a Caddi with a V-8 and options is going to be near the $50K mark.
I don't disagree that the prices for these cars are getting rediculous, but I don't think Acura's pricing of the RL was that out of whack with the rest of the industry. I do think that the whole industry, however, is certainly out of whack for pricing V-6 luxury sedans so high, and is probably one of the reasons why luxury car sales have reportedly been slumping (per newspaper articles...I have not seen the hard data, so take that opinion with a grain of salt).
So it was in this frame of mind that I looked at the RL and thought "You gotta be kiddin'!" 50k for a six, and a smaller car at that? Sure, it has AWD, but who cares in Texas? LOL. (And I'd still like to see a RWD version offered.)
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06-19-2007, 09:02 PM
#134
Originally Posted by Mike_TX
All in all, it's maybe just a different way of marketing. You can stand tough like Lexus or M-B and refuse to come off your MSRP much if any, or you can tease customers with discounts and then make it back in the 'business office'.
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.
.
.
I would have to agree with CL6, that the brand has to set expectations. These incentives, and DEEP incentives are setting expectations that the Acura brand is typically negotiable. I remember having an impression that Acura was pretty much a sticker price car company, and if you got $500 off sticker, that was a deal. That has now changed, and however good as the 3rd Gen RL may turn out to be, I will be expecting discounts (aside form the initial launch period). If not 1st model year, I would wait until I saw them...as I would be expecting now.
A question for the RL people is would you have bought your RL if you were only able to get, say, $1,700.00 off the MSRP?
06-19-2007, 09:11 PM
#135
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by CL6
A question for the RL people is would you have bought your RL if you were only able to get, say, $1,700.00 off the MSRP?
06-19-2007, 09:25 PM
#136
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Originally Posted by Mike_TX
No, I haven't priced the M35X, but I know my well-optioned '06 M45 (Nav, BT, articulating xenon headlights, air-conditioned seats, etc., etc.) stickered for $52,000 and I got $2500 off MSRP right after they came out, so my price was $49,500. I could have gotten an M35 (not the X) for mid to low $40's, but that big V-8 was too tempting to pass up.
So it was in this frame of mind that I looked at the RL and thought "You gotta be kiddin'!" 50k for a six, and a smaller car at that? Sure, it has AWD, but who cares in Texas? LOL. (And I'd still like to see a RWD version offered.)
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So it was in this frame of mind that I looked at the RL and thought "You gotta be kiddin'!" 50k for a six, and a smaller car at that? Sure, it has AWD, but who cares in Texas? LOL. (And I'd still like to see a RWD version offered.)
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Yeah...I think we should get an "AWD discount" up north here!!!
I think AWD adds a good 3-5,000 to the price of most cars in this class, almost the equivalent of a V-8. The M35x with all the options goes for 49,322 invoice price, at least up here. M45 sport with all the toys is $49,695 invoice (per Edmunds and my zip code).
With the snow and hills up here, I am fully willing to lose two cylinders and add two wheels drivin! But I am envious of your V-8 (and nicer weather!)
06-19-2007, 10:04 PM
#137
AcurAdmirer
Originally Posted by Godwhacker
Yeah...I think we should get an "AWD discount" up north here!!!
I think AWD adds a good 3-5,000 to the price of most cars in this class, almost the equivalent of a V-8. The M35x with all the options goes for 49,322 invoice price, at least up here. M45 sport with all the toys is $49,695 invoice (per Edmunds and my zip code).
With the snow and hills up here, I am fully willing to lose two cylinders and add two wheels drivin! But I am envious of your V-8 (and nicer weather!)
I think AWD adds a good 3-5,000 to the price of most cars in this class, almost the equivalent of a V-8. The M35x with all the options goes for 49,322 invoice price, at least up here. M45 sport with all the toys is $49,695 invoice (per Edmunds and my zip code).
With the snow and hills up here, I am fully willing to lose two cylinders and add two wheels drivin! But I am envious of your V-8 (and nicer weather!)
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06-20-2007, 07:18 AM
#138
Go Big Blue!
Originally Posted by Godwhacker
With the snow and hills up here, I am fully willing to lose two cylinders and add two wheels drivin! But I am envious of your V-8 (and nicer weather!)
Personally I found this 3.5 v6 to be just right. It's got plenty of low end torque to jump off a red light if you need to cut over for some reason. It's got plenty of high end torque to squeeze into the fast lane on a highway. Why would people not buy an RL simply because it doesn't have a v-8? Is it back to that "image" thing again or is there something practical I'm missing?
06-20-2007, 08:18 AM
#139
AcurAdmirer
Originally Posted by SpicyMikey
I hear everyone talk about the pleasure of a V-8 and I honestly don't get it. Can someone elaborate on the key desires for a v-8? Keep in mind, I'm a guy's guy. I've owned muscle cars in my youth and drove like an idiot like most teenage guys. I get that aspect of it. But this is not a muscle car. It's a luxuary sedan. Also, it seems none of us are teenagers anymore racing others to the next red light. Why is a V-8 so important?
Personally I found this 3.5 v6 to be just right. It's got plenty of low end torque to jump off a red light if you need to cut over for some reason. It's got plenty of high end torque to squeeze into the fast lane on a highway. Why would people not buy an RL simply because it doesn't have a v-8? Is it back to that "image" thing again or is there something practical I'm missing?
Personally I found this 3.5 v6 to be just right. It's got plenty of low end torque to jump off a red light if you need to cut over for some reason. It's got plenty of high end torque to squeeze into the fast lane on a highway. Why would people not buy an RL simply because it doesn't have a v-8? Is it back to that "image" thing again or is there something practical I'm missing?
The RL's V-6 provides a commendable amount of power for "almost" all situations but "almost" doesn't fit my definition. I've maxed out my RL on a couple of occasions already, in part because I am used to a V-8. But I don't think I ever maxed out the 8 in, for example, my Bimmers, or my M45.
It's a personal preference thing, but I still feel the RL lacks a little thrust at highway speeds, when I might want (or need) a burst of power to get the job done. As a result, I sometimes end up puttering along behind an 18-wheeler for more miles than I'd like, whereas with V-8 torque I'd feel confident to make that pass and move on.
It's NOT a boy-racer thing, at least for me. I will not race people, primarily because it could mean my license if I got caught, and it's not worth it just to show some other guy I'm faster.
In short, the RL's 3.5 liter 6 is a nice engine, but I can't get away from the feeling that it is just a little "short", especially since it's being called upon to drive all four wheels. Bolt on two more cylinders, add a few more ponies and up the torque to 300 or so, and I'd be a happier boy. But that's just me.
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06-20-2007, 08:57 AM
#140
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The incentive made me buy NEW instead of USED. I had planned on buying a used '05, but last October, they had a $3,000 incentive that pushed me towards the new. Without that incentive, I would be driving a used '05 right now.
Note: I wanted an RL regardless.
Note: I wanted an RL regardless.
06-20-2007, 09:19 AM
#141
Instructor
Mike,
I could not agree with you more! I just left a 7-series BMW to come to the Acura RL world, and I still miss the V8. Don't get me wrong, the V6 does a good job but I still miss the torque. I've owned the RL since late last year and still think it is going to break every time I hear the VTEC kick in! It is a perception as well as a physics thing, but torque is NOT. You either have it or not.
Anyway, just thought I'd chime in...
Later,
I could not agree with you more! I just left a 7-series BMW to come to the Acura RL world, and I still miss the V8. Don't get me wrong, the V6 does a good job but I still miss the torque. I've owned the RL since late last year and still think it is going to break every time I hear the VTEC kick in! It is a perception as well as a physics thing, but torque is NOT. You either have it or not.
Anyway, just thought I'd chime in...
Later,
Originally Posted by Mike_TX
I'm not sure I can answer it for you satisfactorily, Mikey, since it's a "visceral" thing in a way. For me, it's the assurance that I always have a reserve of power for any situation, whether it's recovering from an ill-timed pass on a two-lane highway, or accelerating onto a busy freeway and merging safely into fast-moving traffic. I always to feel like I have lots more power on tap than I'll actually use.
The RL's V-6 provides a commendable amount of power for "almost" all situations but "almost" doesn't fit my definition. I've maxed out my RL on a couple of occasions already, in part because I am used to a V-8. But I don't think I ever maxed out the 8 in, for example, my Bimmers, or my M45.
It's a personal preference thing, but I still feel the RL lacks a little thrust at highway speeds, when I might want (or need) a burst of power to get the job done. As a result, I sometimes end up puttering along behind an 18-wheeler for more miles than I'd like, whereas with V-8 torque I'd feel confident to make that pass and move on.
It's NOT a boy-racer thing, at least for me. I will not race people, primarily because it could mean my license if I got caught, and it's not worth it just to show some other guy I'm faster.
In short, the RL's 3.5 liter 6 is a nice engine, but I can't get away from the feeling that it is just a little "short", especially since it's being called upon to drive all four wheels. Bolt on two more cylinders, add a few more ponies and up the torque to 300 or so, and I'd be a happier boy. But that's just me.
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The RL's V-6 provides a commendable amount of power for "almost" all situations but "almost" doesn't fit my definition. I've maxed out my RL on a couple of occasions already, in part because I am used to a V-8. But I don't think I ever maxed out the 8 in, for example, my Bimmers, or my M45.
It's a personal preference thing, but I still feel the RL lacks a little thrust at highway speeds, when I might want (or need) a burst of power to get the job done. As a result, I sometimes end up puttering along behind an 18-wheeler for more miles than I'd like, whereas with V-8 torque I'd feel confident to make that pass and move on.
It's NOT a boy-racer thing, at least for me. I will not race people, primarily because it could mean my license if I got caught, and it's not worth it just to show some other guy I'm faster.
In short, the RL's 3.5 liter 6 is a nice engine, but I can't get away from the feeling that it is just a little "short", especially since it's being called upon to drive all four wheels. Bolt on two more cylinders, add a few more ponies and up the torque to 300 or so, and I'd be a happier boy. But that's just me.
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06-20-2007, 09:26 AM
#142
Go Big Blue!
Originally Posted by Roy Cya
Mike,
I could not agree with you more! I just left a 7-series BMW to come to the Acura RL world, and I still miss the V8. Don't get me wrong, the V6 does a good job but I still miss the torque. I've owned the RL since late last year and still think it is going to break every time I hear the VTEC kick in! It is a perception as well as a physics thing, but torque is NOT. You either have it or not.
Anyway, just thought I'd chime in...
Later,
I could not agree with you more! I just left a 7-series BMW to come to the Acura RL world, and I still miss the V8. Don't get me wrong, the V6 does a good job but I still miss the torque. I've owned the RL since late last year and still think it is going to break every time I hear the VTEC kick in! It is a perception as well as a physics thing, but torque is NOT. You either have it or not.
Anyway, just thought I'd chime in...
Later,
06-20-2007, 09:55 AM
#143
Instructor
Mikey,
don't feel bad on my account!!!!
You want to talk about depressed?!? My daily driver is a 99 Mitsu Galant GTZ; now that's depressing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
It actually does me good because I've given up the sudden "urges" to show others who the man is. Further, I can save on gas when on business road trips (at least once to three times a week), which is the real reason not to drive the RL full time.
don't feel bad on my account!!!!
You want to talk about depressed?!? My daily driver is a 99 Mitsu Galant GTZ; now that's depressing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It actually does me good because I've given up the sudden "urges" to show others who the man is. Further, I can save on gas when on business road trips (at least once to three times a week), which is the real reason not to drive the RL full time.
06-20-2007, 10:31 AM
#144
AcurAdmirer
Originally Posted by SpicyMikey
I guess it must have finally happened. Wasn't sure when it would occur, but I guess I must drive like an old man now. I never feel like my 3.5 doesn't have enough power for me. Now I'm depressed
And at only 46 ... .
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06-20-2007, 10:56 AM
#145
Go Big Blue!
Thanks for rubbing it in! And I was so cool racing around in my first new car -- an '84 5L v8 T-Top Trans Am. What happened? Now I drive a 3.5 v6 4 door sedan and evidently can't use all the power. 
06-20-2007, 11:42 AM
#147
CLS 6MT Navi
"I've owned the RL since late last year and still think it is going to break every time I hear the VTEC kick in! It is a perception as well as a physics thing, but torque is NOT. You either have it or not. "
Not sure what this means, are you afraid the engine is fragile? My experience is Honda V6 engines are extremely well designed and built, from experience with at least 6 of them. Seems like a lot of co's copied VTec too. That's one of my main reasons I stay with Acura, they are very dependable and well engineered cars.
Worrying about something breaking seems more fitting for a BMW or a MB from what I read.
Not sure what this means, are you afraid the engine is fragile? My experience is Honda V6 engines are extremely well designed and built, from experience with at least 6 of them. Seems like a lot of co's copied VTec too. That's one of my main reasons I stay with Acura, they are very dependable and well engineered cars.
Worrying about something breaking seems more fitting for a BMW or a MB from what I read.
06-20-2007, 12:40 PM
#148
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
Originally Posted by 123456SPEED
"I've owned the RL since late last year and still think it is going to break every time I hear the VTEC kick in! It is a perception as well as a physics thing, but torque is NOT. You either have it or not. "
Not sure what this means, are you afraid the engine is fragile? My experience is Honda V6 engines are extremely well designed and built, from experience with at least 6 of them. Seems like a lot of co's copied VTec too. That's one of my main reasons I stay with Acura, they are very dependable and well engineered cars.
Worrying about something breaking seems more fitting for a BMW or a MB from what I read.
Not sure what this means, are you afraid the engine is fragile? My experience is Honda V6 engines are extremely well designed and built, from experience with at least 6 of them. Seems like a lot of co's copied VTec too. That's one of my main reasons I stay with Acura, they are very dependable and well engineered cars.
Worrying about something breaking seems more fitting for a BMW or a MB from what I read.
Not to speak for Mike (but I'm gonna anyway
)I don't think anyone really feels the engine will break. It's just that YOU KNOW that the engine is working. You can hear it and feel it, where with a V8 give you a more effortless feel as you acclerate.
I understand that, but I personally feel that the RL has more than enough for me. The other day I jumped on it and I smirked a little as it shot out. I guess I don't dip into the accelerator that much. That must mean I'm getting old as well.
06-20-2007, 01:20 PM
#149
AcurAdmirer
Originally Posted by GoHawks
Not to speak for Mike (but I'm gonna anyway )
I don't think anyone really feels the engine will break. It's just that YOU KNOW that the engine is working. You can hear it and feel it, where with a V8 give you a more effortless feel as you acclerate.
I understand that, but I personally feel that the RL has more than enough for me. The other day I jumped on it and I smirked a little as it shot out. I guess I don't dip into the accelerator that much. That must mean I'm getting old as well.
)I don't think anyone really feels the engine will break. It's just that YOU KNOW that the engine is working. You can hear it and feel it, where with a V8 give you a more effortless feel as you acclerate.
I understand that, but I personally feel that the RL has more than enough for me. The other day I jumped on it and I smirked a little as it shot out. I guess I don't dip into the accelerator that much. That must mean I'm getting old as well.
But it DOES make a kind of clattery racket when pushed hard. I think that's because the RL's ANC snuffs out the bass sound that would normally mask the clatter.
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06-20-2007, 02:06 PM
#150
Go Big Blue!
Originally Posted by Mike_TX
But it DOES make a kind of clattery racket when pushed hard. I think that's because the RL's ANC snuffs out the bass sound that would normally mask the clatter.
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Poor Acura, they can't win for loosing
06-20-2007, 03:23 PM
#151
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
Originally Posted by Mike_TX
(Pssst ... Just for the record, it wasn't I who said the engine sounds like it's gonna break. It was Roy.)
But it DOES make a kind of clattery racket when pushed hard. I think that's because the RL's ANC snuffs out the bass sound that would normally mask the clatter.
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But it DOES make a kind of clattery racket when pushed hard. I think that's because the RL's ANC snuffs out the bass sound that would normally mask the clatter.
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06-20-2007, 05:35 PM
#153
Instructor
That's what I get for getting on a plane instead of posting on AZ!!!! 
The guys pretty much explained what I meant about the motor "breaking" or sounding like it's working itself to death. Anyway, please continue the conversation without me, you're doing fine... From now on, I am driving with my windows down and the radio off!!!!!!
By the way, 123456SPEED, I agree with your comment about BMWs and MBs not being very reliable. I got burned BAD
when I got rid of the Bimmer, for the Acura. I'm sure that explains my reasoning for getting the RL.
Keep up the good work y'all!
The guys pretty much explained what I meant about the motor "breaking" or sounding like it's working itself to death. Anyway, please continue the conversation without me, you're doing fine... From now on, I am driving with my windows down and the radio off!!!!!! By the way, 123456SPEED, I agree with your comment about BMWs and MBs not being very reliable. I got burned BAD
when I got rid of the Bimmer, for the Acura. I'm sure that explains my reasoning for getting the RL.Keep up the good work y'all!
06-20-2007, 05:36 PM
#154
Instructor
Was that the M Roadster?
Originally Posted by 123456SPEED
What sportscar was it that had ports in the front cabin so you could hear the exhaust sound better? I think it was a BMW sportster?
06-20-2007, 10:34 PM
#155
why does it matter if it is popular, or you pay a lot of money for it, if you like it and you think it is a good product? I get your point, you want external adulation and approval, but I also think you should just go buy a different car, spend a lot more money, so you can feel the adulation from others that you are seeking. I could understand if you make your money selling the cars, and you are taking a loss, or you work in the marketing or advertising company and trying to quantify your marketing/adv expenses, but otherwise the argument seems a bit superficial. I mean if you like the car then what does the incentive or popularity matter. I don't get it..I get that the car is not popular, but maybe that is a good thing. This is the difference in being a leader, not a follower....
btw...
Expect an advance every 4 years. Everyone knows Honda does it every 4 years.. They will come out with a super expensive car , then everyone will be bitching about how expensive it is..
btw...
Expect an advance every 4 years. Everyone knows Honda does it every 4 years.. They will come out with a super expensive car , then everyone will be bitching about how expensive it is..
06-21-2007, 09:51 AM
#156
Racer
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 56
Posts: 353
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Received 0 Likes
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I was at a graduation last night and at least three kids were names "Mercedes". Proof that the brand has prestige about it. I didn't hear any kids named "Acura" by the way.
There were a couple named "Alexis" but that doesn't count for Lexus, does it?
There were a couple named "Alexis" but that doesn't count for Lexus, does it?
06-21-2007, 10:00 AM
#157
Go Big Blue!
Originally Posted by gavine
I was at a graduation last night and at least three kids were names "Mercedes". Proof that the brand has prestige about it. I didn't hear any kids named "Acura" by the way.
There were a couple named "Alexis" but that doesn't count for Lexus, does it?
There were a couple named "Alexis" but that doesn't count for Lexus, does it?
Actually "Mercedes" is a real name. Long before Mercedes Benz came around. It's a girls name common in Spain.
06-21-2007, 10:09 AM
#158
Senior Moderator
Unfortunately, Lexus IS a made-up name and there are many unfortunate children who carry the name.
06-21-2007, 10:15 AM
#159
Go Big Blue!
That's pathetic
Ya know, that comment from Gavine got me curious. I looked up the origins of the Mercedes Benz name. Did you guys know that was the name of one of the founders daughters?
I didn't know that. At 46 I can still learn a few things. I'm gonna take the rest of the day off now
Ya know, that comment from Gavine got me curious. I looked up the origins of the Mercedes Benz name. Did you guys know that was the name of one of the founders daughters?
I didn't know that. At 46 I can still learn a few things. I'm gonna take the rest of the day off now