aznstuart

Here's my take for a nice linear Acura lineup

For the TSX, RDX, Roadster:
4cyl 2.5L 250hp 200lb-ft >> $30k
V6 3.5L 350hp 300lb-ft >> $40k
Type S:
V8 4.5L 450hp 400lb-ft >> $50k

For the RL, MDX, GT:
V6 3.5L 350hp 300lb-ft >> $45k
V8 4.5L 450hp 400lb-ft >> $55k
Type S:
V10 5.5L 550hp 500lb-ft >> $65k

The the MB S, GL, SLR Class competitors:
V8 4.5L 450hp 400lb-ft >> $60k
V10 5.5L 550hp 500lb-ft >> $70k
Type S:
V12 6.5L 650hp 600lb-ft >> $80k

Mike_TX

Well, some of that is like fantasy football, meaning you're dreaming.

BUT ... note that the MDX already has a 3.7-liter V-6 engine, so the reference to a 3.5 is outdated. Now ... Acura will at the very least put a version of the 3.7-liter in the RL on the next re-style (or maybe sooner, if they do a major mid-model refresh). They could easily pump that engine to 325-330 hp with no real gymnastics. But it won't have 300 ft.-lbs. of troque, unless it is 'way up high in the rpm scale.

SO ... I've been reluctant to say this, but my real, true prediction is that Acura will not go to a V-8 in the RL. They will instead use the 3.7-liter from the MDX, tuned to about 325 hp/285 ft.-lbs. torque. They might even be able to tune it to run on regular gas. Then, they'll tout the lighter weight of the V-6 engine, the fuel economy benefits, and the car's other attributes, and just sidestep the whole V-8 debate.

To me, those stories of V-8's and V-10's in the RL are pipe dreams. That just ain't Honda, and it sure ain't what they would do for one small part of their car lineup. After all, what other car (car, not the Ridgeline) has a V-8, or is even a reasonable candidate for one? Certainly not the "other" flagship, the Accord, which has flourished on a reputation as a sensible, economical family sedan.

I think we need to face the reality that Honda-san isn't going to grace its lowest-selling model, the RL, with a V-8. Many of us would love it, but it just isn't the way they think.

Having said that, an RL with another 35-40 hp and maybe 25 additional foot-pounds of torque wouldn't be so bad a thing, would it?

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SpicyMikey

3.7 V6 with a V8 Diesel option. I could see that being a realistic option package

Motown2006RL

http://www.leftlanenews.com/acura-tl-spy.html

csmeance

I think this may be the future for acura:
TSX (change 2009) 4cyl NA about 210HP
TSX-S 4cyl turbo maybe 250 HP

TL: (total change2009) 3.7 320HP
TL-S (total change 2009) 3.9 v6 350-360 HP or 4.2 v8 about 380-400HP

RL: 3.9 v6 350-360 HP or 4.2 v8 about 380-400HP

MDX 3.7 v6 300HP (current)
RDX (MMC) 4cyl turbo (current)
RDX-S (doubtful) 3.5 v6 290 hp

Next CL (doubtful)
CL 3.6 v6 320 HP
CL-S 3.9 v6 350-360 HP or 4.2 v8 about 380-400HP

Just my guesses, honda likes to keep the TL .2 liter ahead of the accord due to weight, acura puts the TL-S motor i the RL, the MDX stays the same, and the RDX will maybe share a motor with the TSX-S

Mike_TX

That would be cool, but I still think you guys are dreamin'.

The next-gen TL will probably inherit the existing 3.7-liter with 300 hp now used in the '07 MDX. After all, that's a big increase in horsepower and torque. If there *is* a TL-S in 2009 (which, remember, they have lately brought out late in the model cycle), it will be more of a styling/suspension exercise, with ground effects and badging, and a manual trans. I wouldn't count on it having more than 300 hp. Maybe toward the end of the cycle it could get a few extra horses. Don't hold your breath for a V-8 in a TL.

The 3rd gen RL, as I've already predicted, will likely also have the MDX's 3.7-liter, 300 hp engine. They may tweak another 5 or 10 hp out of it. That is really enough to keep up with the others in the class (Infiniti M35, for example, which will get the 306 hp engine from the G35, the GS350, with its 306 hp, the BMW 535i with 300 and the Caddy CTS/STS with 304). Again, I predict no V-8, no V-10, no nitrous injection, no wheelie bars.

Why do I say this? Because getting a new engine developed, tested and then certified for use in the U.S. is an arduous, expensive task, and it takes years to get it done. The 3.7-liter in the MDX is already certified, and it's a good engine, so it will get used in as many places as possible. They can tweak it for a few more hp or more torque by adjusting things like breathing, spark timing, compression ratio, cam phasing, etc., and get those things re-certified much more easily than a new engine. In fact, I'm sure they've already gotten several versions of the 3.7 certified and on the shelf.

Honda ain't stupid, and they also aren't prone to spend big gobs of money on new engines just to keep the forums buzzing. They're disgustingly practical, and the practical thing to do is to "use what you got".

What I really *hope* they're doing is working on a direct-injection system, since that's the easiest path to more hp and torque right now, and it does it more economically. And it's also the way most other carmakers are going. That could make the engine more responsive, and possibly allow for a few extra horses.

Maybe I'm just being too practical, too, but as much as I'd like to see a nice V-8 in the RL, I just don't think it's going to happen. And maybe that's okay.

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neuronbob

Sorry man, this is ancient news. I will certainly be paying attention to the 4G TL this time next year when it comes out. I am hoping it will be worthy. I agree with Mike. Why put your top-of-the-line engine (a potential V8) in a car other than your top-of-the-line car? Makes no sense. And Honda is ALL about sensibility. Or, as Mike says above, "disgustingly practical".

csmeance

You are right on a few points, but my guesses on the future of acura is based on what they have done in the past. Like I said before, the TL gets a .2 liter head start on the accord due to the weight difference so it can keep the same timings for performance. The TL-S will of course have an upgraded motor. The RL usses the TL-S motor currently, so It may be possible that the future RL will have the future TL-S motor.

GoHawks

Actually the TL-S uses a "detuned" version of the current RL engine that has been out since the '05 model.

csmeance

detuned by 4 hp... i seriously doubt it, I think that they created a random number right near the rl's power so the RL would not be outpowered (on paper) by the TL-S.

TampaRLX-SH

That may have some truth, but I also read that the power of the 3.5 was tuned for the TL as to avoid much more torque steer. The FWD drivetrain of the TL is about maxed out in how much power it can spin the front wheels with.

csmeance

there is some truth to that, the first 2 gears have limited torque so the FWD can handle the power, but still that car is pretty quick off the line.

geronimomoe

For what it's worth, I just checked out the 2008 Autoweek Buyer's Guide. It claims that the 2009 will be a facelift and the 2011 will be a full redesign.

That's a heck of a long time for the 2G RL, 6 years?

Mike_TX

Equally reliable sources have referred to a redesigned RL in 2009, so I wouldn't put too much stock in that.

The odds-on bet is a new one for the 2010 model year (therefore showing up in dealers in late '09). We on this board are hoping for a one-year "Advance" on Honda's usual 5-year cycle, due to slow sales, giving us a new RL for the 2009 model year.
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MIKEYDRED

They used to I am not sure if they do anymore the ES maybe. But Acura is label on the window of the RL, TSX and possibly the SUV'S. the TL says Honda on the glass because it is built in the same plant as the Accord, but that doesn't make it bad.

geronimomoe

It would be nice, I agree. One can only hope.

Chas2

While we can always hope, I just don't see them rushing something new out when the NSX is going to be their halo car and they need do that right for their worldwide launch. Although I do see the logic for a new RL, but I think they will just do a major facelift and spiff up some of the tech, so they can concentrate on the NSX, then do derivative engines, etc. for the new RL.

static808

I also don't see a immediate rush for the new RL or NSX. What is interesting is that the new head of N.A. Honda & Acura looks to really want to move Acura to directly compete against BMW and Honda.

I see that as a positive sign for the new RL and other Acura products. Lets hope they come out with a Acura RL coupe....

TampaRLX-SH

I believe there is also a timing issue with launching the Acura brand to more global markets. The delay of Acura in Japan speaks to this along with restructuring dealerships in those global markets to differentiate the Honda and Acura brands.

Honda already recognizes the LEGEND is too much car for the Honda brand in other markets (and apparently not enough car for the US market as an Acura flagship).

Launching Acura in Japan (and other global markets) would be more timely with the new NSX and flagship RL/LEGEND being fresh and attention drawing. Why introduce a brand and then shuffle the products a year later? It would also serve in shifting the next gen LEGEND as soley an Acura RL. Who knows, maybe the LEGEND name will be revived under Acura?

But the delay of launching Acura brand in Japan and much of Europe is now looking to be slated for 2009/2010. That would synch up with a new NSX and RL to make the debut.

SpicyMikey

Syncronizing the two events sounds tidy, but they can't wait till 2010 to make significant changes. Honda can probably wait, their Honda sales are at all time highs, but the U.S. Acura dealerships are really hurting. They need to generate excitement for their dealers sake. No reason they should wait for anything.

Mike_TX

I think the odds of an RL coupe are pretty much nil. Production luxury coupes are low-volume, affairs ... just ask Mercedes and BMW ... and are usually high-dollar cars (BMW 6-series, M-B SL, CL, etc.) Coupes in general are mostly associated nowadays with sporty youth-oriented cars, like the Infiniti G37, the new Altima coupe, and the lower-priced 2-doors from the other Asian makes, so a 2-door RL just wouldn't make enough sense for Honda to build it.

I'll put it this way - if I were on the board and entrusted with Acura's success, and a designer presented us with an RL coupe concept, I'd throw him out of the room.

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larrynimmo

mike is right...if you have a car that isn't selling, you don't add a more costly alternative that will ultimately take sales away from your main car. Our cars are truely a limited production premium car. 2008 sales may be less than 4,000.

TampaRLX-SH

The next gen TSX and TL are due out beforehand. Those 2 new models should generate some excitement. Relaunching the entire model lineup in the next 2 years is simply impossible.

SpicyMikey

Not sure it's impossible, but, none the less, you now raise a different argument. I was only addressing the idea of Honda intentionally postponing any product releases so it would coincidently occur with the launch of the Acura brand in Japan and/or Europe. I think they owe it to the NA dealers to release product as soon as it is physically possible and leave marketing strategy for other countries out of the equation.

Rexorg

No rush? Who wants to buy a car that looks exactly the same (minus the shark fin) since 2004? In the good old days car makers had to change the way the car looked every year to keep sales up.

RL Coupe? Not in my lifetime.

123456SPEED

I'm mad that I've been loyal to Acura and been buying their 6cyl/manual coupes for years, but they keep droppin'; em. There was an 8 yr. void from the 1995 manual/6cyl Legend Coupe til the 2003 CLS 6speed/6cyl.

Maybe 8 more years til we ever get a 6cylinder/manual coupe again?
Don't know how long I can wait. Guess Acura is pushing me to the Germans or Infiniti, or Lexus (IS coupe?)
An RL coupe would have been so perfect for me.

INSPIRE 32V

iTrader: (1)

Rl Coupe, I think not. i don't think acura will ever make a RL coupe

SpicyMikey

I could see them coming out with a coupe to round out the line, but I can't ever see an RL coupe from Acura. The IS? That's a different class of vehicle. I could see them coming out with a TL or a TSX coupe in the not to distant future to challenge the IS. In fact, I'd almost bet on it. As far as an IS-F response? I can't see it. Just doesn't seem like Honda's style to drop an 8 cylinder 500+hp engine in a compact car.

kirbyflorida

I just heard from my long term Acura Tech that the new RL will be a 4.7 liter V-8, for 09 or 10.
Wow, Honda's first v-8 would be cool, I would wait for the second year out though.

Mike_TX

Hmmmm ... wonder if he's been drug tested lately?

Seriously, I hope that's true, but I ain't holding my breath. If it DOES turn out to be true, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a first-year model. If there's anything Honda knows how to do, it's manufacture engines.

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Rexorg

A 4.7 L V8 (330-40 HP) seems to confirm the info from my buddy back in May. Looks like Acura is slowly leaking out info about the new RL as I imagine the October sales figures for the Rl will be disappointing and they are trying to generate interest in the new model to come. Techs usually have info about new models long before the general public due to training, etc. However, specific info means the design is in the pipeline and it won't be long before more info is leaked and perhaps some spy photos.

Rexorg

Oh, 4.7 L would be about 378 HP based on the current 3.5 L engine. Now that would be awesome.

gavine

+1....The Infiniti 4.5L (in the M45) is 340HP so a Honda engine that is bigger than the Nissan engine will definitely be more powerful.

123456SPEED

If they can do this and increase mpg fine. otherwise building cars that use more gas is short sighted IMO. This is against what Honda was built on. Hopefully they can balance higher power cars with more fuel efficiency in other parts of the line. I'm not a V8/V10/V12 fan.

Honda does great things with 4 and 6 cylinders, Honda has put up a good fight. too bad the public demands V8s. THe current RL mpg is too low already.

SpicyMikey

I agree. All I can say is that it better be an option NOT standard. Most people driving a mid size sedan want a drive train like the current RL. I don't think the 300hp is what hurt the RL, thus, a 375hp v8 probably won't help it.

Mike_TX

I don't know. Let me first say I don't expect anything on the order of 375 hp, even assuming the RL does get a V-8 (which I'm still not convinced it will). Something more like 325-330 at most is what I'd expect. Enough to be clearly in the hunt, but not musclecar territory.

I personally think it WOULD help the RL to have a V-8 option. Gas mileage isn't as big a deal to the public at large as it seems to be to some of the forum members. A couple of mpg translates to only a couple hundred extra bucks a year anyway, so it doesn't make or break most people's budgets ... and the average American does like power and is willing to pay for it. Heck, I'm retired and on "fixed income", and I have no desire to make the compromises required to get 30 or 40 mpg.

And if Honda does put a V-8 in the RL, rest assured it will be ULEV II, and will have some kind of cylinder deactivation scheme to make it essentially a 4-cyl or 6-cyl until the other cylinders are needed. They just aren't going to suddenly become hotrodders overnight ... it isn't in their genes. They can make a V-8 of decent power (and, importantly, more torque) that will get mileage as good as the current V-6. More complicated, sure, but entirely do-able.

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Rexorg

Sad to say, but with 91 octane going to $3.75+ in a few months that will probably put the kibosh on a V8 in the new RL. However, cylinder deactivation would help if they retain the current 3.5L. If the Mustang 4.9L V8 can run on 87 octane Honda could certainly come up with a 4.7L V8 with cylinder deactivation and run on 87 octane if they want too.

SpicyMikey

Your right Mike. Let me rephrase; It won't help it MUCH. I'm sure it will grab extra sales. it will certainly help boost the cars image. It's all good as long as it's only an optional package.

Even if they found a way to make the gas mileage the same as the current gen 3.5L v6, I think a lot of people would be unwilling to pay the premium for the extra hp (power that most people would probably find unnecessary). Plus, a next gen v6, which they very well might introduce with the new RL, should do considerably better on mpg then the current mediocre numbers.

kirbyflorida

The LS 460 is not hurt by an 8 cyl at all, fantastic sales.
If Honda only wanted 30 more hp they probably could find it, turbo would do it for sure.
Time will tell where they are really going.

Rexorg

No turbos for me. Did have three cars with superchargers and they were OK, except when you really had to move and then the rear end would break away and you wondered if you were going to get out of the situation in time. There is nothing like pure hp from a V8, small or big block, and that unique sound. However, most RL owners don't seem to want that rumble.

P.S. The LS460 is a fine car, but a bit overpriced. I did not buy my RL for the engine, but if it had a V8 option I would have gone that way.