Tesla: Development and Technology News
#1121
Ex-OEM King
#1122
A-TSX Oldie
Guess you'll need to pay the $10/month for the premium connectivity features after a year, Sam?
As I understand it, pre-2019 Model 3 came with lifetime Premium Connectivity required for this new feature; but new owners have to fork it out after, what 30 days now? Was 1 year when Sam got his, I believe.
As I understand it, pre-2019 Model 3 came with lifetime Premium Connectivity required for this new feature; but new owners have to fork it out after, what 30 days now? Was 1 year when Sam got his, I believe.
#1123
Ex-OEM King
Yep, I have it free for a year then $10/mo after. The 30 day thing is bullshit IMO. I am leaning towards paying it but you can also use your phone as a hot spot for the same features while driving.
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Comfy (10-28-2021)
#1124
So what’s the advantage in using the phone as a hotspot? The charge of $10/ month is for the feature rather than just internet access, correct? You still have to pay that amount even when you use your phone hotspot….?? Please correct me if wrong.
#1125
Ex-OEM King
Feature is free provided you have a connection to the internet which is what the connectivity gives you. Though if your phone isn't in the car, you're not going to be able to watch videos remotely lol.
Last edited by SamDoe1; 10-28-2021 at 01:19 PM.
#1126
Cool. So you can get google maps and all other paid features using your phone hotspot even if you don’t have premium connectivity, right?
#1127
Ex-OEM King
Yup, sure can. The connectivity is literally just the internet connection, nothing more. If you BYO connection, everything else works just fine.
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Comfy (10-29-2021)
#1128
Azine Jabroni
10k for this crap. FSD is really terrible
#1129
Sanest Florida Man
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Comfy (10-29-2021)
#1130
#1131
Race Director
Thread Starter
Jason Hughes is also known as the Tesla Hacker. No one can accuse him of being a short seller or a FUDster, as any critic of the company’s actions is frequently classified. Despite that, he’ll probably hear that after publicly confronting Tesla to be upfront about its promises of Full Self-Driving hardware. He showed they date back from October 19, 2016.
According to Hughes, he got into a “substantial back and forth” with the company about costs. He thinks there should be none considering that Tesla wrote on its blog on October 19, 2016, all cars would have “Full Self-Driving hardware.” On October 20, 2016, the company shared that blog post on Twitter, making the same promise.
As Hughes reasons, it was not for all car owners that paid for the FSD package, neither those that paid for future upgrades. It was for “all Teslas.” When the Tesla Hacker asked the company to stand up to its word, he heard “from the last person in the chain” that he should sue Tesla to get what it promised him and thousands of customers in the first place. And that’s probably what he will do.
Elon Musk and Tesla made that same promise again on Tesla Autonomy Day on April 22, 2019. That was when the company announced HW 3.0. This “supercomputer” would make all Teslas autonomous when the company had the stable release of its software. Since then, customers have received new vehicles with HW 2.5, and Tesla announced a new chip that will make cars autonomous (again), based on Project Dojo.
Hughes had to block many Tesla fans that argued he was wrong, probably in a disrespectful way. Including himself as a Tesla supporter, he said that they “should be the ones most offended when they do something dishonest and hold them to a reasonable standard. We should not defend and twist when they go against what's clear in B&W.”
In other words, if Tesla said all its cars made after October 19, 2016, would have “Full Self-Driving hardware,” that’s what the company should stand for. Musk said the upgrades that are now necessary are included in the price, possibly meaning that those who paid for FSD are the ones who should get them. What Hughes argues is that it should be included in the price paid for the cars in light of Tesla’s promises.
For a company whose CEO considered “autonomous driving to be basically a solved problem” in 2016, that would be the right thing to do. If the company was wrong to promise that, it should admit it and upgrade this hardware for free to all customers who believed it knew what it was talking about. It clearly didn’t, but now it wants to evade responsibility for having said so.
Hughes is a Tesla researcher. He wants the hardware to understand how it works, even if he is not willing to pay $10,000 for FSD. It is not up to Tesla to decide if the hardware would be useless in a car without the software or not. If it said all its cars would have it, they have to have it: simple as that.
That leads us to another reflection on Tesla’s attitude. The company is deploying FSD Beta to thousands of new customers every week based on the promise it made in 2019 that all cars made from that point on would have all the hardware necessary for Full Self-Driving. That was not true, as Project Dojo demonstrates.
That said, what is the point of releasing beta software to be used in cars that do not have the necessary hardware to achieve full self-driving? If these cars will only attain autonomous driving with Project Dojo chips, why expose so many people to software that can’t do its job without the proper hardware, which is yet to be developed?
Perhaps Tesla should just stop making promises it cannot keep. That creates future liability such as the one Hughes will ask courts to enforce. The problem is that stopping with the autonowashing would probably affect Tesla’s irrational market cap. If it is based on the technology Tesla claims to have, the company should just deliver it. It promised to do so in 2016, in 2019, and we’re waiting for the next time it will promise the same thing again.
Meanwhile, customers like Hughes will try to hold the company accountable for its pledges while being bashed by those who fear what that may cause to their investments in Tesla. For someone who defended the company so many times in the past, such as against the sudden unintended acceleration accusations, it must be a bitter feeling. As Hughes states in his Twitter bio, he wants Tesla to succeed, but in the right way.
Tesla Hacker Wants Company to Be Upfront About FSD Hardware Promises
Hughes went to Twitter to share a dispute he was having with the company. Elon Musk tweeted on October 22, 2021, that “early production cars will need camera upgrades, as well as FSD computer (all included in the price).” The Tesla Hacker wanted his cars to have the upgrade regardless of paying for FSD or not.According to Hughes, he got into a “substantial back and forth” with the company about costs. He thinks there should be none considering that Tesla wrote on its blog on October 19, 2016, all cars would have “Full Self-Driving hardware.” On October 20, 2016, the company shared that blog post on Twitter, making the same promise.
As Hughes reasons, it was not for all car owners that paid for the FSD package, neither those that paid for future upgrades. It was for “all Teslas.” When the Tesla Hacker asked the company to stand up to its word, he heard “from the last person in the chain” that he should sue Tesla to get what it promised him and thousands of customers in the first place. And that’s probably what he will do.
Elon Musk and Tesla made that same promise again on Tesla Autonomy Day on April 22, 2019. That was when the company announced HW 3.0. This “supercomputer” would make all Teslas autonomous when the company had the stable release of its software. Since then, customers have received new vehicles with HW 2.5, and Tesla announced a new chip that will make cars autonomous (again), based on Project Dojo.
Hughes had to block many Tesla fans that argued he was wrong, probably in a disrespectful way. Including himself as a Tesla supporter, he said that they “should be the ones most offended when they do something dishonest and hold them to a reasonable standard. We should not defend and twist when they go against what's clear in B&W.”
In other words, if Tesla said all its cars made after October 19, 2016, would have “Full Self-Driving hardware,” that’s what the company should stand for. Musk said the upgrades that are now necessary are included in the price, possibly meaning that those who paid for FSD are the ones who should get them. What Hughes argues is that it should be included in the price paid for the cars in light of Tesla’s promises.
For a company whose CEO considered “autonomous driving to be basically a solved problem” in 2016, that would be the right thing to do. If the company was wrong to promise that, it should admit it and upgrade this hardware for free to all customers who believed it knew what it was talking about. It clearly didn’t, but now it wants to evade responsibility for having said so.
Hughes is a Tesla researcher. He wants the hardware to understand how it works, even if he is not willing to pay $10,000 for FSD. It is not up to Tesla to decide if the hardware would be useless in a car without the software or not. If it said all its cars would have it, they have to have it: simple as that.
That leads us to another reflection on Tesla’s attitude. The company is deploying FSD Beta to thousands of new customers every week based on the promise it made in 2019 that all cars made from that point on would have all the hardware necessary for Full Self-Driving. That was not true, as Project Dojo demonstrates.
That said, what is the point of releasing beta software to be used in cars that do not have the necessary hardware to achieve full self-driving? If these cars will only attain autonomous driving with Project Dojo chips, why expose so many people to software that can’t do its job without the proper hardware, which is yet to be developed?
Perhaps Tesla should just stop making promises it cannot keep. That creates future liability such as the one Hughes will ask courts to enforce. The problem is that stopping with the autonowashing would probably affect Tesla’s irrational market cap. If it is based on the technology Tesla claims to have, the company should just deliver it. It promised to do so in 2016, in 2019, and we’re waiting for the next time it will promise the same thing again.
Meanwhile, customers like Hughes will try to hold the company accountable for its pledges while being bashed by those who fear what that may cause to their investments in Tesla. For someone who defended the company so many times in the past, such as against the sudden unintended acceleration accusations, it must be a bitter feeling. As Hughes states in his Twitter bio, he wants Tesla to succeed, but in the right way.
#1132
Team Owner
Teardown of Plaid computer
#1133
Ex-OEM King
#1134
10k for this crap. FSD is really terrible https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-dwhwoeL6Y&t=1461
I'm sure those 358 people have perfectly rational reasons as to why they disliked the video this video is clearly faked, because FSD Beta 10 was supposed to fix all the problems of 9!
Funny thing is, with the way YT's algorithm works, a thumbs down counts as engagement and will increase the visibility of the video regardless.
#1135
Sanest Florida Man
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Comfy (11-04-2021)
#1136
Little do they know, that this is only the prelude .
#1137
Ex-OEM King
What it can see and what it can do are two very different things. Guess you wouldn't know though since you don't even have one.
#1138
It can do only if it can see. If it can’t see, it won’t do. As simple as that. Your narrative is getting old.
#1139
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
#1140
Ex-OEM King
In any case, the latest on the most recent FSD drop is that it's hot garbage. Lots of phantom braking, weird veering into lanes, and other dangerous stuff. Lots of people have disabled it.
#1141
The neural net would be better than human brains for doing a specific task. Your ignorance is astounding.
#1142
Ex-OEM King
Also, the cameras don't see better than humans. I can bring up a live feed of the cameras and they are worse than my vision. Good at picking up big objects and what not but they can't spot other things like small crap/obstacles in the road.
#1143
Sanest Florida Man
Bro you're complaining about an imperfection in a beta AI that they're aware of and already working to fix as if it's final and will never improve. How many times have you seen an AI start out being worse than humans then improve dramatically to be vastly superior? Almost all of your anti-tesla talking points are shortsighted
#1144
Sanest Florida Man
VW CEO explains why it needs to be more like Tesla: Giga Berlin will produce 90 cars/hour on 1 line
In a new note to his management team, as he is being challenged by his own workforce, VW CEO Herbert Diess explained why the German automaker needs to be more like Tesla.Surprisingly, a lot of it has to do with manufacturing – something that Elon Musk said would become Tesla’s main advantage.
As we reported yesterday, Diess is currently facing a vote of no-confidence under review by a board committee after VW’s worker council took offense to him saying that the company could face job losses if it falls behind in the transition to electric vehicles.
Yesterday, we reported on Diess cancelling his US trip in order to address the situation.
He said that he understands that some are frustrated by his constant comparison to Tesla, but he sees a need to emulate them in many ways.
Now, Electrek has obtained a speech that he gave to his management in which he describes, in detail, why he sees Tesla as VW’s main competitor.
Interestingly, Diess seems to have some important information about Tesla’s expected production efficiency at Gigafactory Berlin:
Tesla has long been appreciated for the software, range, and acceleration of its cars but has had problems with quality. The production was ridiculed. But our main competitor is learning fast. The quality is getting better, the customer feedback more positive. And in Brandenburg, Tesla wants to build half a million cars with 7,000 people – direct and indirect. And with an impressive productivity: expected 90 units per hour in one line, 10 hours per car.
Tesla CEO Elon Musk has long said that manufacturing will become the automaker’s main advantage.
Despite Tesla producing more electric vehicles than any other company, the notion has been ridiculed because the volume is still much lower than most other automakers, and quality hasn’t been on par with other premium automakers.
But things have improved over the years, and now Tesla can produce electric cars at an annual rate of 1 million units, with quality continuing to improve.
Diess appears to be aware of the details of Tesla’s planned output at Gigafactory Berlin, and he is particularly impressed with 10 hours of production per car.
In comparison, Diess says that VW is at over 30 hours at Zwickau, and it is currently aiming to bring this down to 20 hours, which would still be twice as much time as Tesla.
Here’s the relevant part of the speech from Herbert Diess:
“Today, Tesla sets the standards here. They build the car around the software. Updates are already part of everyday life for Tesla customers.
We now come every 12 weeks with automatic updates for our ID. family – a big step for Volkswagen!
Congratulations to the team of Thomas Ulbrich and CARIAD for this milestone!
Tesla has long been appreciated for the software, range, and acceleration of its cars but has had problems with quality. The production was ridiculed. But our main competitor is learning fast. The quality is getting better, the customer feedback more positive.
And in Brandenburg, Tesla wants to build half a million cars with 7,000 people – direct and indirect. And with an impressive productivity: expected 90 units per hour in one line, 10 hours per car.
In Zwickau, we are at over 30 hours, we want to achieve 20 hours next year – we
originally started with a project target of 16 hours.
I don’t need to mention here what all this means on the stock market. Tesla has unlimited access to money and resources due to its high valuation. These numbers are what drive me to point out this new competition and not turn a blind eye.
Even if I stop talking about Elon Musk, he’s here to stay, revolutionizing our industry and quickly becoming more competitive.
The Tesla Model 3 was the best-selling car in Europe in September, ahead of the Golf. And this despite the fact that Tesla does not even build in Europe yet. Tesla only imports so far.
Only those who understand and have an eye on the competition can win. Tesla is the benchmark today, and other strong startups have entered our market from China.“
As we reported yesterday, Diess is currently facing a vote of no-confidence under review by a board committee after VW’s worker council took offense to him saying that the company could face job losses if it falls behind in the transition to electric vehicles.
Yesterday, we reported on Diess cancelling his US trip in order to address the situation.
He said that he understands that some are frustrated by his constant comparison to Tesla, but he sees a need to emulate them in many ways.
Now, Electrek has obtained a speech that he gave to his management in which he describes, in detail, why he sees Tesla as VW’s main competitor.
Interestingly, Diess seems to have some important information about Tesla’s expected production efficiency at Gigafactory Berlin:
Tesla has long been appreciated for the software, range, and acceleration of its cars but has had problems with quality. The production was ridiculed. But our main competitor is learning fast. The quality is getting better, the customer feedback more positive. And in Brandenburg, Tesla wants to build half a million cars with 7,000 people – direct and indirect. And with an impressive productivity: expected 90 units per hour in one line, 10 hours per car.
Tesla CEO Elon Musk has long said that manufacturing will become the automaker’s main advantage.
Despite Tesla producing more electric vehicles than any other company, the notion has been ridiculed because the volume is still much lower than most other automakers, and quality hasn’t been on par with other premium automakers.
But things have improved over the years, and now Tesla can produce electric cars at an annual rate of 1 million units, with quality continuing to improve.
Diess appears to be aware of the details of Tesla’s planned output at Gigafactory Berlin, and he is particularly impressed with 10 hours of production per car.
In comparison, Diess says that VW is at over 30 hours at Zwickau, and it is currently aiming to bring this down to 20 hours, which would still be twice as much time as Tesla.
Here’s the relevant part of the speech from Herbert Diess:
“Today, Tesla sets the standards here. They build the car around the software. Updates are already part of everyday life for Tesla customers.
We now come every 12 weeks with automatic updates for our ID. family – a big step for Volkswagen!
Congratulations to the team of Thomas Ulbrich and CARIAD for this milestone!
Tesla has long been appreciated for the software, range, and acceleration of its cars but has had problems with quality. The production was ridiculed. But our main competitor is learning fast. The quality is getting better, the customer feedback more positive.
And in Brandenburg, Tesla wants to build half a million cars with 7,000 people – direct and indirect. And with an impressive productivity: expected 90 units per hour in one line, 10 hours per car.
In Zwickau, we are at over 30 hours, we want to achieve 20 hours next year – we
originally started with a project target of 16 hours.
I don’t need to mention here what all this means on the stock market. Tesla has unlimited access to money and resources due to its high valuation. These numbers are what drive me to point out this new competition and not turn a blind eye.
Even if I stop talking about Elon Musk, he’s here to stay, revolutionizing our industry and quickly becoming more competitive.
The Tesla Model 3 was the best-selling car in Europe in September, ahead of the Golf. And this despite the fact that Tesla does not even build in Europe yet. Tesla only imports so far.
Only those who understand and have an eye on the competition can win. Tesla is the benchmark today, and other strong startups have entered our market from China.“
#1145
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Bro you're complaining about an imperfection in a beta AI that they're aware of and already working to fix as if it's final and will never improve. How many times have you seen an AI start out being worse than humans then improve dramatically to be vastly superior? Almost all of your anti-tesla talking points are shortsighted
Also, what AI is vastly superior to humans?
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pttl (11-05-2021)
#1146
#1147
The endgame is nearing. .
#1148
Today, Tesla sets the standards here. They build the car around the software. Updates are already part of everyday life for Tesla customers.
he seems sarcastic. consider low production rates and high price of Tesla. we will soon be reaching with basic Tesla vehicle at $50K. The more software add to the vehicle the higher the price.
#1149
#1150
The moment a firm use Software than you realize they dont have real physical product but selling BS.
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/11/03...ntal-progress/
“Environmental” Groups Delaying Tesla Giga Berlin Are Blocking Environmental Progress
#1151
I also hear utility prices are increasing in Germany. How Tesla berlin going to pay its utility bills?. can Tesla created electricity through software development?
The moment a firm use Software than you realize they dont have real physical product but selling BS.
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/11/03...ntal-progress/
The moment a firm use Software than you realize they dont have real physical product but selling BS.
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/11/03...ntal-progress/
“Environmental” Groups Delaying Tesla Giga Berlin Are Blocking Environmental Progress
Good start for a weekend. Keep going.
#1152
yup keep going. Google has to built data centers with global parts using water and energy.. The laptop and smartphones we use has very long industrial chains behind it.. it is the physical product that make Google happen.
Tesla cannot make physical product enough and concentrating on software. thats why they have simplest vehicles (minimum colors and customization), shortest range, longest wait times. US auto production is now lowest in about 40 years with highest price.
Tesla cannot make physical product enough and concentrating on software. thats why they have simplest vehicles (minimum colors and customization), shortest range, longest wait times. US auto production is now lowest in about 40 years with highest price.
#1153
OMG.
So total US auto production is Tesla’s responsibility. . Where is this discussion going…..? Ha ha ha ha.
So total US auto production is Tesla’s responsibility. . Where is this discussion going…..? Ha ha ha ha.
#1154
yup Tesla took the market cap crown now it need to show production at reasonable prices for US consumers. Deliveries now stretched to next October.
Tesla cannot rely on software as its hardware aka vehicles cannot be imported from Asia unlike Iphones or laptops.
Tesla cannot rely on software as its hardware aka vehicles cannot be imported from Asia unlike Iphones or laptops.
#1155
Giga Austin, hello…….
#1156
Giga Austin will take a while. by that time prices will be even more higher. Musk has now competition with Tesla China.
41000 Tesla exported from China. Tesla China is moving towards 1 million production per year.
41000 Tesla exported from China. Tesla China is moving towards 1 million production per year.
https://electrek.co/2021/11/08/tesla...-output-china/
Tesla’s numbers in China are out today, and the automaker has managed to maintain its impressive output with over 54,000 electric vehicles last month.
Tesla’s numbers in China are out today, and the automaker has managed to maintain its impressive output with over 54,000 electric vehicles last month.
#1157
Azine Jabroni
#1158
Hello,…… it’s 100% owned by Tesla
Anything else……?
What about your favorite Renault Zoe…?
It’s like saying your left hand is the biggest competition for your right hand. Ha ha ha.
Next …..
#1159
Since every other competition has been left in the dust, now SSFTSX has found a new competitor for Elon, which is Tesla China. .
Hello,…… it’s 100% owned by Tesla
Anything else……?
What about your favorite Renault Zoe…?
It’s like saying your left hand is the biggest competition for your right hand. Ha ha ha.
Next …..
Hello,…… it’s 100% owned by Tesla
Anything else……?
What about your favorite Renault Zoe…?
It’s like saying your left hand is the biggest competition for your right hand. Ha ha ha.
Next …..
US consumer cannot find a half decent small SUV/hatch back or Minivan at reasonable prices.
Renault has produced Megane Electric.
4.5 star out 5 in first attempt. Electric car closer in price to fully loaded Civic or Corolla. Tesla hasnt graduated from 20 years old Prius design.
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/renaul...ic-2022-review
that experience with the Zoe has been particularly useful when it comes to weight saving across myriad components, resulting in a kerb weight for our 60kWh model of 1,624kg – 188kg less than the equivalent ID.3 with a 58kWh battery
It certainly gives the car a bit of GTI attitude, but on our test on damp French roads, it also led to plenty of wheelspin like turbocharged Renaults of old. Renault engineers say that will be sorted for production cars, when we should actually get a 0-62mph figure, too – currently they’re saying ‘up to 7.4 seconds’. It feels faster than that.
.
that experience with the Zoe has been particularly useful when it comes to weight saving across myriad components, resulting in a kerb weight for our 60kWh model of 1,624kg – 188kg less than the equivalent ID.3 with a 58kWh battery
It certainly gives the car a bit of GTI attitude, but on our test on damp French roads, it also led to plenty of wheelspin like turbocharged Renaults of old. Renault engineers say that will be sorted for production cars, when we should actually get a 0-62mph figure, too – currently they’re saying ‘up to 7.4 seconds’. It feels faster than that.
.
#1160
Okay, then why is Megane electric not outselling the Tesla. It surely has everything going for it, right?
If the prices of cars are increasing, blame the chip shortage and supply chain issues. It’s not Tesla’s fault.
You are a master at moving goalposts. I’m taking notes from you.
If the prices of cars are increasing, blame the chip shortage and supply chain issues. It’s not Tesla’s fault.
You are a master at moving goalposts. I’m taking notes from you.